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One thing that keeps reappearing in Tolkiens works is a family model (note, not "model family".
You have the Father who is wise and powerful but not a main character.
Then there is the oldest son who has an extraordinary talent of some sort, but is proud and commits evil.
Finally there is the younger son who is more humble. He cannot compete with his older brother, but proves himself when it counts.

There are many variations over this theme, you have Eru-Melkor-Manwe and Finwe-Feanor-Fingolfin/Finarfin (here there are two younger sons, but you rarely see both of them together in the storyline and when you do they show the same character traits). Last example is Denethor-Boromir-Faramir.

There are of course many differences between them, Eru and Denethor for example are very different, but Denethors flaws is more or less caused by him facing a much more powerful enemy. Imagine him in his prime without Sauron and the palantir.

If you streach the imagination there are more similarities and a lot more examples of this trinity or trio if you wish. Any thoughts?

Whoa

Hm, thats interesting.. you dont only have this theme in LoTR, but in many legends and tales. Just think about it...
The youngest is nearly always the bearer of the sympathy of the reader, while the oldest (sometimes) makes quite a good evil guy. Just try to imagine it the other way round - it would seem totally strange. Except when the older brother still goes to school and the youger one annoys him.

I actually did notice that, i didn't consider in that deeply but i definetly did notice all of the facts that aurora mentioned

Wow...yeah, that just seems WEIRD if they did it the other way, like, the younger is evil, the older is better.

It is shown in the movies of course through B and F but I think that ppl can really relate to it. It always seems that the younger is always begins as a follower who wants to be his brother yet takes the right path by learning from his brothers mistakes.

That sorta makes sense...except for my sister doesn't follow after me. She's too shy to be in theater. Eeheehee.

Exa has a very a very good point, it happens threw-out many films/books/tales etc, I am trying to think of an example though

Discos - or lets just let someone else do it

well actually im an older brother...and im sure my dad likes my younger brother better.....so......lol


but this is a very interesting thread i must say

Wow......that phenomenal because I was thinkin' along the lines of that in class yesterday and I guess I forgot about it. Wow....brilliant minds think alike, aye?

I was thinking of toast this morning.....how about you Sauron, do stupid minds work alike?

jacob and esaw

-the story of the YOUNGER brother tricking his father in to blessing him before he dies instead of the father blessing the OLDER son.

but yeah most of the time it always is OLDER is evil younger good.
besides the above story i never heard one the other way 'round.

Where'd you get that story? Just wanted to know...

The Bible Genisis 25:19-35

Um...I think my parents have it somewhere...I never read it. Too big!

Good example Smodden... It is true that they are rarly turned around and the younger is the evil.... I mean keeping in line with your example, Cain and Able... The good son: younger, The Evil son: older.

I'm going to go read that now! *goes off in search of Bible, finds one, and reads story* *comes back* Whoo, cool! But...isn't it Jacob and Esau?

Yes it is Jacob and Esau. And for a correction on my post... it is Abel not Able, sorry.

I'm sorry, I'm such a grammatical person... but I make lotsa typos too. Liek thsi.

oops didn't notice that... i forgot about cain and abel... i would love to read thru the whole Bible and i'm tryin' if u compare to LOTR and SIL and HOBBIT, its about the same length i think...and i've read those many times. So it can't be that hard..

In alot of cases, families in the olden days, cherish mostly the first son and the first daughter.

haha, that definitely NOT in my case! And it's not that sister/sister jealousy thing. I'm adopted, but my little sister's their biological child. *sigh* I don't belong.

i'm a middle-child:

older sis
younger bro
so where do i belong???
i'm not the MOST cherished but i'm not the LEAST cherished...

I just have a sister. A BLONDE sister. Blondes aren't bad, but she's a little....straaaange.

I'm a youngest of three, so their priorities come first, I don't need to be really cared for.

ages?

sis 24
me16
bro12

umm smodden i am in the same boat as u!
bro:24
me:20
sis:16

*yells WHERE DO I FIT IN*

2nd borns shall rule the world! muwhaha

*evil giggle* heheheeheeeee

Me: 13
Sis: 10

You guys can rule the world, I'll stay in my theater career. XD I lurve it.

Erm yes I also have a little brother... five years younger... but... isnt that a bit offtopic I mean, we were talking about tolkiens siblings

Yes but no one was bringing up any points to talk about on my points so it got off topic!

hey its quite hard to be a older brother or sister
because i am the oldest in the family and with that there come more Responsibility i had to look after my brother and sisters when i was young which ment i matured faster then most kids.

Me even though i am 20 years old i still worry about my brother and sister.

i dont know i would have loved to have a older brother so i could have talked to him and learn form him

Yeah I think most of the families that have younger and older ones, tend to be like that. the older ones look out for the little ones.


And Aurora, I think this topic is very brilliant the idea of the Father Son issue.

im the oldest and my mam and dad like my little bro the best

I'm youngest of three and my bro's are already headin' out and so my parents worry about me...