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I got this article off theonering.net and I think it is worth noting and discussing

http://boundless.org/features/a0000860.html

I thought it was a very intersting point ... the actors seemed afraid to answer questions for a christian article. was it because they were afraid someone would come after them with knives in the middles of the night ...or another reason?? questions hopes dreams aspirations .. things that go Bump inthe night?

does no one have an opinion??? * no comments from the peanut gallery* Geez!

I think....with the whole...religion thing...and I mean in LotR there is some form of magic, such as Gandalf and Saruman, I guess they were nervous. Seeing as though how Christians reacted to HP.

yeah but HP was practasing witchcraft and willingly teaching it

*shrugs* I'm just putting an example.

THANK YOU RIMA!!!!!! I think the actors are just afraid ...you don't here about many "famous "christian actors .. execpt maybe mel gibson( GO THE PASSION !) I am sure that they are out there , But hollywood is very liberal, and so actors are probably afraid to say and even think things, they are afraid of bad publicity etc....and others actors and poeple just wanna put christians down, which I think is really sad, i mean you can't out down other races or groups of people,like arabs or something but it is fine to ridicule christians.. it doens'tmake sence to me...


what do you guys think .. don't be like timid ..... I just wanna know

Agreeing all the way!!! GO!!!

THANKS A TRILLION!!!! LOVE YA RIMA!

are me samiam ind Iirima the only one who are going to talk about this?

yes ppl are afraid of what other ppl will say so they sit back and agree with everybody, and don't stand up for anybody (ahem*Christ, Christianity,*
and yeah go "the Passion"!!!!

You a Christian, too? GO YOU!!!! XD XD XD

WOHOOOOOO I am like TOTALLY EXCITED ABOUT THIS!!

ME TOO!!! I'm so HAPPY!!!!!!

I'm Christian.

There is a book somewhere that I nearly bought that includes all of the Christian symbolism in the LOTR. J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis were Christian writers, if you couldn't tell. Example: being tempted by the power of the Ring is like being tempted by sin. Symbolism.

*jumps up and down insanely*
i'm happy too!!!!

yeah captain rex!! i have this devotional i am reading it is called finding God in lotr .. very nice i like it .. it compares stuff but I know there are a number of books out ther like that!!

that is so true! GRR. We need our own set of rights!

I just think it is a little one sided ... u know

*gasp* COOL! Tell me the Author, please!

I have that book too!!!!

whooo go smodden~!!!! the author is kurt bruner and jim ware

*dies* THX LENNY!!!!!!!!!

y r you dieing .. of happiness??? me too *dies* and NO problem

I often say *dies* when I'm waaaaaaay happy. Yeps. In extreme state of boredom, no one's on Tig party, so I'm making another e-mail addy so that I can petition again for Dom and Bilyy. Iirima was taken, so was Iirema, so I had to do [email protected]. Anyways...

tolkien was catholic note 2nd middle name

I tottaly agree with you guys , but i just read the forword to fellowship, and tolkien reallly didnt want his books to seem religous or symbolistic.

i was here yesterday before anyone replyed to this message, so i was typing all my feelings about this, and all this stuff happened to my computer, and i had to restart the message like a million times (or 4) and i was upset already cuz of the stupid things the people said about God in LOTR, so i finally gave up and came back today, and a lot of what i was gonna say is already on this forum now. i was soo disapointed when i read the article. i am a Christian, and LOTR is definetly a Christian alegory (or whatever its called) for me, and it made me really upset to know that the actors and other people associated w/ lotr couldnt say that there was Christianity in lotr. i cant believe they are afraid to talk about God! i couldnt even finish the article after i read what Andy Serkis said about banishing all religions. that made me so mad. i'm mad at Orli too, he was too afraid to talk about God or Christianity too. there was other stuff i thought about last night that i was gonna write, but i guess i forgot. anyway, im glad to know other people in here are Christians too.

THANKS A TRILLION .. it is soo nice to know that there are other people who share my same opinion!! WHOOO * jumps around excitedly*

yea, I am a christian also (relationship not just religion) you should get Christian History's latest Issue, it is Tolkien packed! 50 pages of Tolkien!!

yea, tolkien was Catholic also (so was C.S.Lewis, they had many disagreements) also I don't think Tolkien wrote it as an analogy of christianity, it just came out that way. he wrote the Hobbit to read to his kids and I think he was just writing LOFTR for fun at first.

woohoo, go Tolkien!
wow, 50 pages... kewl

but he was a Christian, or Catholic - same dif - , so how could some of his beliefs not appear in his writing?

well, catholics and christians are not the same thing. For Example... Jesus Christ said it is by faith alone that we are saved and the Catholic doctrine requires faith + deeds, there are many differences, I don't have the time to explain them all but i would be happy to email them to you sometime.

(and when I say Catholic I mean Roman Catholic)
and his beleifs somewhat appear in his writing (Frodo battles with his "sinful nature" he just doesn't come right out in say it)

i didnt mean thet are exactly the same... i just wrote that cuz i was in a hurry and wanted the message to be short.

hey everyone I'm a Christian too!

yay! im so excited!

Guys! I'm a Christian too!

Tolkien was well-known for all of his stories, but mainly, his "The Lord of the Rings" trilogy. Tolkien was also known for his highly Christian beliefs, and he added elements of Christ and God into his works. In fact in The Letters of JRR Tolkien, Tolkien himself said that LOTR is "a fundamentally religious and Catholic work".

Tolkien wanted the book to show religion, rather than talk about it. When Frodo is merciful to Gollum, despite every temptation to act otherwise, he shows Tolkien's belief in passion and forgiveness.

When Frodo presses on towards Mount Doom despite nagging worries, he shows Tolkien's belief in trusting a divine plan. Other characters display the same qualities and face the same tests.

The pain and regret Elves feel because they have to live forever shows that, in Tolkien's view, humans are lucky to be free from that worry.

When Melkor and Sauron try to act like gods in Middle-earth, they always fall short of actually creating something original and have to deform something made by God, such as when they make Orcs out of Elves. Only the one God, Iluvatar, can create.

Sauron is the main focus of evil in the trilogy of Lord of the Rings. We can closely relate him to Satan, for he is the leading power of opposition against good. Also, the One Ring can relate to what Satan can do to us... call us against what we know as right, and bring us to wrong, or in LOTR's case... darkness.

Gollum is a main focus point in what Christians may face today. Some are doubtful to believe in Christ, for many questions face them, like, "Is God real," or "What can God do for me?" Gollum's case, however, is focused on Frodo, or his "Master." He fights with himself over whether or not his Master has betrayed him or not. Gollum is the clear portrayal as a sinner... he wanted the evil that he loved so much, and what benefited him the most. "The Ring." But he never looked to the "Master" to see what else was in store, and how his life may have been. Another portrayal of the element of sin in the Ring to Gollum is that it was addictive. That's why Gollum's appearance seemed so gruesome. He was an addict of evil, which can warp not only the mind, but the body and the soul.

Gandalf is a focus point on Christ. Christ sacrificed himself to save us on the cross, whereas Gandalf broke the bridge in the Mines of Moria to save the rest of the Fellowship, and then "rose again."

i totally agree w/ everything u just said...

That is SOO AWSOME shadowyblue!! I amsoo happy to get to know so many christians on FORUM!!! YEAH!!! *does a jig* WOO HOOOO!!!

im so happy too!

anyone else have an excelent source for christian LOTR book or stuff??
I know that CBD( christian book discount I think) www.christianbooks.com (I think) has some stuff ... we order from them like all the time soo .. that is where i got my book

i have this book that im rading called 'Walking with Frodo.' its a Christian book.

okay, no offence but I'm geeting tired of all the religion and rasicm threads.

what's wrong with this thread?

Nothing! This thread can be for us who see LotR from a Christian POV.

yeah, there's nothing wrong w/ this thread!

btw, iluvorlandobloom, I LURVE your sig!

oh, thanks! i love it too!
Orli...

hey someone in the General Topic just got a bolocking for posting a religion thread.

I just hope one of the mods don't close it down its a good thread.

Also Tolken wasa religous man but when asked the question if his book has anything to do with his religion he said no its simply a story

oh, i hope they dont block it!

Orli, ORLI, ORLIIIII!!!!!!!!!
notworthynotworthynotworthynotworthy

lol

oh, i'll be like that too!

y should they block a thread just b/c it has to do w/ religion??

my mom actually thinks im sacreligious because i like the ringwraiths and there "evil"

lol

yeah, we can have our own opinions!

"Finding God In Lord Of The Rings" I have heard it is a good book. I can't believe no one has mentioned it.

strange, have you read revelation? blood, fire, demons with wings. It's in the bible. the wraiths are evil and they are ultimately defeated! Evil is defeated, that is not sacreligious at all.

I did mention finding god in Lord of the rings .. like on the forst page

Okay I haven't posted on this topic and I am sorry if I repost anyone else's veiws or points ( I only scanned alot)!

First of all Tolkien was Catholic, and extremely religious. You can clearly see his beliefs through his words.

And although a few ppl have posted it C.S. Lewis was not Christian he was an atheist. And I think you can also tell that from his works.

he was an athiest ... a hard core athiest .. then he turned to God ... and his life changed ... I think he bacme a christian when he was bikeriding in the counrtyside ... I am not sure .. but I think so

yeah he said that the holy spirt entered him

And I've seen miiiiiiiiilions of Christian books by him that my mom reads.

yeah ... hey RIMA u said u bacame a christian again !!! I AM SOO AHPPY we all inspired u !! *POWER OF PRAYER*

That's awesome Iirima. So you just became a Christian lately? I'm happy for you. And not to enter somebody else's business but I'm just curious, whatever happened to C.S. Lewis that made him convert to Christianity?

this is from a timeline of his life ... kinda funny!

1929

Lewis became a theist: "In the Trinity Term of 1929 I gave in, and admitted that God was God, and knelt and prayed...." Albert Lewis died on September 24.

1931

Lewis became a Christian: One evening in September, Lewis had a long talk on Christianity with J.R.R. Tolkien (a devout Roman Catholic) and Hugo Dyson. (The summary of that discussion is recounted for Arthur Greeves in They Stand Together.) That evening's discussion was important in bringing about the following day's event that Lewis recorded in Surprised by Joy: "When we set out I did not believe that Jesus Christ was the Son of God, and when we reached the zoo I did."

LOL...that's amusing..and weird..and kinda funny.. People will make you wonder sometimes.. but thanks for that!

yeah I remeber reading that a while ago .. but i forgot

hey guys! Sorry if i'm interupting this lovely discussion...but...I'm a Christian too! I was starting to feel a bit lonely on this forum...reading these slams to christians here and there. And about C.S. Lewis, thats really cool, he wrote all those mere christianity books. Its awesome to hear about ppl who get converted like that! And I know this is a bit off subject, but i just wanted to ask anyways (so please forgive me! ) but, I'm a big fan of HP, as you can obviously tell by my sig....but whats your guys take on it? (this also kinda relates to LotR w/ the magic aspect of things) I don't see anything wrong w/ liking Harry Potter, but I've known some ppl who feel very strongly that its evil to read those books.

I haven't seen the movies myself ... I didn't really want to .. they seemed... dark to me, I know there is alot of debate on the subject, but I wouldn't be the right person to ask..

Well, I have a friend who is a pretty strong Christian, and she loooooves Harry Potter, but my parents won't let me read the books/see the movies, so I can't say one way or the other.

my parents didnt used to, but they really arnt that dark, and the movies are even less dark then the books, and I'm a pretty strong Christian.

I'm a Christian too, but I don't like HP that much. I don't know, it's not because it's dark, but it's just because, the story and the characters doesn't hold a candle in my heart. I personally have nothing against HP, I'm also watching the movies because I could honestly say that it's better than other movies, but I can live with watching them just once or even not at all, not like the LOTR movies that if I had to sneak my dad's car, or if I have to walk outside in the rain just to get in the theater and watch it for the 10th time, I'm more than willing to do so.
And I don't think there's that much comparison with HP and LOTR, just the fact that both have wizards, but the magic in HP is too obvious and visual, the magic in LOTR is a presence, not visual. They also have very different plots. The HP storyline is all about wizardry and witchcraft, the storyline in LOTR is all about freedom for Middle-earth and fight against Sauron.
I think the reason why some people are comparing those two franchises is that the movies came out a few months after the other and several people can't help it but to transfer the hype from one movie to the other, thus, some people end up comparing them. But really, I can't see that much to compare with.

To sum this up, HP for me is just OK, I can live with or without it, I have never read the books too and have no plans of doing so. Maybe it's not just my cup of tea, but who knows? LOTR however, I've read them for a long time even before the movies came out and they already captivated me, the movies then thankfully added to the impact. And I have plans to read the books and watch the movies over and over for the next several decades.

I agree entirely with shadowy, I don't personally like it, but I can live with it. And I also don't mind if you like it, it's not a crime, like I said about my friend.

C.S Lewis & Tolkien were at university together and were both principal member of the Inklings club/group who would show each other early drafts of their writings and introduce each other to there own favorite books, Tolkien showed the group writings from his Middle Earth Mythologys years before he even wrote the Hobbit for his children or Lewis wrote the Chronicles of Narnia which (especially some of the later books) are very Anti Catholic in places which upset Tolkien greatly.
Tolkien as most people know was a devout Catholic and of course this influenced his work (its a story of good vs evil so it is obviously what his ideas of what good and evil are) but he writes in his foreword to the second edition of LOTR:


"as for any meaning or message, it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical or topical......I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history, true or feigned with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author"

Im not saying YOU cant find God in The Lord Of The Rings but Tolkien did not deliberately put God in there.

thanx for your input guys! I personally really like the books, the movies aren't near as good...but I have a friend whose dad (who happens to be a pastor) reads them. And I agree that witchcraft and wizardry are wrong....but its not like i'd ever think of practicing them or researching the topic...or anything like that. But yeah, and I didn't mean to try and make it sound like HP and LOTR are so closely related...just trying to make my question sound less off the topic!

LOL..I actually wasn't referring to your post when I compared them.. It was for general, because some people can't help it but to compare the two and it just baffles me sometimes.

thanks chapel for ur insight. but I belive even though tolkien may have not liked allegories ... I think christianity was soo deeply ingrained into tolkien , that he could not speparate one from the other. whether people belive there allergorys in lotr or not, there is no denying that he has a very redepemtive theme ... and allergorical issues and themes are there, if you wish to see them.

OK THIS FORUM IS now FOR ALL PRAY REQUESTS

Umm I think Alex needs alot of prayer that her surgry will heal very quickly and she will feel tons better.

yeah .. well she has to recover .. and I am sure she is still kinda out of it !u know

you can talk .. and pray .. I am not sure

yeah maybe God will show you a way to maybe help her oor at least be able to talk to her

I want to put a prayer in for my friend lupin...he is having some medical problems and is very sad and depressed. he really needs our help and I believe the good lord will help him. I just need some more people to help me pray.

*volunteers* I will!

I'm with you to support Lupin

YAY!

Can i propose we pray for someone?
me! i am so dead after tig party tonight lol

Okay, I'll pray for u, I think I'm in danger too, lol

I've also got a prayer request. This completely amazing woman in my community has cancer. She has amazing faith, and is really using her sickness as a testimony. But she has a family, and is a former teacher for most of the ppl at my school, and so i figure, the more prayers the better right?

okay I will pray for her.

My grandpa DID have lung cancer and my chruch,family,friends all prayed and now he is great and has no cancer.

thats awesome! thats so much for your prayers! I'll pray for you guys too....even if you havn't posted prayer requests...we all need prayers right?

Yes we do. God bless all of you guys.

This is great guys!! i would really appreciate it if you could pray for my grandma who just found out she has cancer and it hasbeen really hard on our family. but it is really bringing my fam togther

and what is ur teacher / friend name??

her name is Laura...and its looking like shes in the last few weeks or months of her life, but thats not to say we've all given up on a miracle, you never know what God's got in store. And I can pray for your grandma, and your whole family for that matter, cancer is so hard on so many ppl

Thanks
we have to pray for LL114 to calm her down and that everything goes smothly cuz
she is having ankle surgry !!! she is really nervous ....

ok. I will pray for all you guys i hope everyone gets better soon God bless you all

yeah, i would like to second that motion...God bless you guys! I love this thread, you all just make me feel so loved, and at home! Tonight has just made me really aware of what a blessing life is. I mean, we all get up every morning, and don't think a thing of it, but there are ppl who would do anything if they could live normal life for just one day, and yet, i have the nerve to complain about school, and homework and such, when really, i am so blessed to be able to do that kind of stuff! (just a random thought for ya )

yeah u r soo right !!!!

it's sweet to have a thread like this. good idea SamIam
i wish more ppl wldn't just bypass this thread

Errr... I am sorry guys, but if you want to do this sort of thing, use the GDF.

Closing.

And incidentally, please do not advance the idea that someone being gay is a problem to be solved.