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I have a book about LOTR and it says:

Pelennor Fields Battle.

Some allies 2800
Minas Tirith 2000
Rohirrim 6000
Aragorn 1000
Total Gondor forces: 11250

Minas Morgul/Witch King 20000
Haradrim 18000
Others 7000
Total Mordor forces: 45000

So, in Pelennor Fields we could say there were about 55000+ men, orcs,etc. fighting. They say atleast 250,000 good and bad guys!!

In lotr it says

45000 for Mordor: 20000 from Minas MOrgul and Baraddur, 18000 from harad and 7000 others (easterlings);

about 11250 for Gondor: 6000 riders of theoden (his whole army wouldve been 12000!), 1000 from the south, 2000 from Minas Tirith, 1200 from Dol Amroth, 300 from Pinnath Gelin, 100 from Ethir Anduin, 50 from lamedon, 200 Lossarnach, 300 Ringlovale, 500 Morthond, 150 from Anfalas.

So yeah

THats why i dont like grimas comment "but there is no such army" about 10000 men in TT

what the problem about 55000 men?

well they guy on ttt dvd said there would be 200,00 guys at pellenor and it looked like 200,000 guys!! exa!!

Lol
the numbers in the film all seem a little strange...

In there film version there are supposed to be around 150 000 orcs

10 000 of them from Minas Morgul
with the easterlings and haradrim around 200 000 fighting for Mordor

ahh oh i see it was only excluding mordor orcs!!

No, theres just a huge difference between book and film -
In the book there are 45 000 fighting for Mordor, in the film its 200 000

In the book you have 11250 good guys, in the film far more - only the number of the Rohirrim stays the same (6000)...... but as you never see all the men of Gondor you dont even really notice them

well they can increase the numbers in the movie, it makes it more epic and they have the tech to do it. thanks exa!!

np

Yeah, they did the same in Helms Deep... which wasnt a really important battle in the book ...

well they need it to make it as "epic" as possibile.

Those are interesting numbers. Got any more for other battles?

Peter Jackson said roughly 200,000 of the dark armies were at Minis Tirith, I say that figure looked true bu the looks of it

definetly not 20,000, take a look at helms deep, 10,000 and it did look alot but then take a look at the minas tirith battle

exa helms deep was an important battle i nthe book

Important... hm... but not that important

Tolkien suggested to cut it in a potential film so that everything concentrates on the battle of Pelennor

Well ok it wasnt that small
about 2000 warriors of Rohan (3800 and the Huorns when help arrived) and 10000 for Saruman
But still only for Rohan

if rohan had lost

gondor would be without allies....well without powerful allies....

If Rohan had lost, there would be 2000 warriors less... well Rohan had more than 12000

only 6000 of which showed up.....

plus if helms deep fell an al out attack on edoras would follow and the rohirim moral would be low, as theoden, would have been killed

aragorn would have been killed, so there go the army of the dead, which means the corsairs survive, which means the pellenor is lost

yea because of the losses in the Battle of the Hornburg and the Battles of the Fords of Isen and the short time he took to gather the armies

That it wasnt sooo important doesnt mean it wouldnt have been imporant if they had lost it

if only 6000 showed up cos of losses when they WON imagine if they lost


the MOTIVE for the battle is un-important, but the outcome is critical

Yep then it would only have been 4000 or something



exactly
If the Eldar and the Edain wouldnt have lost the Battle of the Sudden Flame it also wouldnt have been that important because everything would have remained the same... but as Morgoth broke the Siege of Angband and conquered Middleearth it WAS important

i think everything in LOTR has a disatrous outcome if it happened any other way

yeah like if the rohrim didn't come, minas tirth would be wiped of the earth. It was better for gondor and rohan to fight together. This is so because Edoras would be very hard to defend if mordor came there when they defaeted gondor.,

yeah and Gandalf or Aragorn(i don't remember wich ) says that if they dont draw sauron's army to them 10.000 orcs will stand between frodo and Mt. Doom but it's suposed to be around let's say 100.000-200.000, ney?

precisely... though I highly doubt that number.
According to the film, Sauron had still 300,000 Orcs left in Mordor when the Siege of Minas Tirith started, and between 200,000 and 300,000 Orcs fought in the Battle of Morannon


In the book, Aragorn had 6000 men at his side (originally 1000 riders + 6000 men of the infantry, but 1000 were left behind), in the film there are only about 300 left; and in the book, Sauron's troops were "10 times more" than Aragorn's army.

it was 500 in the film...i counted them

Yea, once the number 500 occurs, but in the end there are only 300.

no seriously i counted them there are 500

Lol

then either you or the film guys are wrong

*goes to recount them*

this may take a while so be patient lol

Eeps... wait a moment... here it says 500 again... no idea what thats supposed to be... sometimes it says 500 then again 300

Without the victory at Helm's Deep, Rohan would have never answered the call to aid Gondor. The shock of 5-6K calvary charging the flank of the Mordor host was quite a signifigant event in the battle of Peleanor Fields.

You people know nothing! Their were between 150,000 to 200,000 orcs. 6,000 Riders of Rohan, 5,000 Dead Warriors and 20 oliphaunts. And an estimated 3-5 thousand Gondar soldiers.

Isnt that nearly exactly what we said?

And we were mostly referring to the numbers in the book - where there are "only" 45000 warriors for Mordor.


And I do not think it's the best beginning for a post to say "You people know nothing" - that might not be taken in a friendly way.

in the 2nd disc of return of the king peter jackson explained that near a million orcs were supposed to be there

perhaps I am mistaking, it is either PJ who said a million at Pellenor, or it could havebeen the narrator to the national geographic documentary

either way when Denethor looked down onto the Pellenor Fields it looked sure as shit more than 300,000

Some some reason, the numbers always change at Pelennor Fields.
Let's just say there were a crap load of orcs, Uruks, haradrum, easterling at Gondor

First of all for telecontari, we know nothing? Where are you getting your numbers from? There were 40,000-45,000 for Mordor and her allies. Gondor had just over 11,000. These are numbers from "The Atlas of Middle Earth". It was written by experts in geography and demography. I'd say they knew something. And yes Mordor had in the hundred thousands, but they were back in Mordor or attacking other fortresses in ME (Rivendell, Lolthlorien, Rohan, etc). For those of you who think there were hundreds of thousands or even millions of troops at Pelennor Fields, all I have to say is read a book. PJ totally screwed up putting the books to film. He missed so many things and then added a bunch of crap. The visuals were excellent, but the story is changed. I am so tired of all you "experts" out there who have seen three movies and never read one word that Tolkien wrote. I'm not claiming to be an expert on ME either, but I have read "The Lord of the Rings", "The Hobbit", "The Simerillion", and other books on the subject of ME. I suggest to anyone who wants to speak with any kind of authority and knowledge on the subject, read the books before you come online claiming this and that.

Adam

Great post



Yep, they're the same Tolkien himself also gives. The Atlas is very reliable in questions like that... I also re-read the parts in the book, and the number of the orcs there is clearly not over 50,000.

Since we're on the subject of troops at Pelennor Fields, where were the Easterlings? My next question is which Easterlings were those at the Black Gate when Frodo and Sam almost got discovered? And finally, why did PJ leave out such colorful groups? I would have liked to see ALL of the Easterlings at Pelennor Fields.

you spelt "silmarillion" wrong

The Easterling at the black gate and the ones in which Faramir's company seen were drawn to mordor, we didnt see much of them except on the mamikul....the black gate group could have been the only easterlings to go to mordor as that would equal about the 12-15 mamikul,

I figured it was misspelled. Spelling isn't one of my strongpoints. LOL

Uhh, the Southrons or Haradrim were the ones with the Mumakils. Those are the ones that Faramir and his rangers attack. The men at the Black Gate that come out to investigate when Frodo and Sam fall are Easterlings. I wanted to know which Easterlings those were. I kinda thought they were Variags from Khand. If so, where were the armies from Rhun? Where were the axemen? Also, where were the half trolls for the Haradrim? And if not, where were the Variags?

Adam

... in the battle of Pelennor itself there were nearly no Easterlings seen in the film, but there WERE some... I have pix of them somewhere... *goes to search*

just when the Great Gate was breached and orcs and trolls where stroming in you could see afew Easterlings as well in the courtyard

ya do? the numbers to us can be confusing....so many different nubers and confusions

I am just watching return of the king,

now....about these numbers, Minas Morgul empties out when frodo & sam are at the bottom of the stairs,

next time we see them they are fairly a high bit up now, I say it would of taken me >30mins to get where they are.....at that time we see minas morgul STILL emptying out!

now I would say it would have been a hell of a lot more than mere thousands empying minas morgul in 30mins. We should now be talking in the high hundred thousands....

btw this is in corespondence with the MOVIE

Thank You Discos, I've been saying that for a week now.

lol great

also just seen when Denethor first looks upon the plains.....

how far is Osgiliath from Minas Tirith in miles? 1-2miles?

Yeah probably so.

to many poeple to count

Discos - gee don't get "too" invloved *joking*

Lol. I probably won't.

There's a whole crap load of them.
It looks like over 200,000
The movie actually simplifies Sauron's assult. He has armies all over ME, maybe near 600,000.

Actually it's about 20 miles (as the Nazgul flies )

well in the movie, when denethor looks over the whole plains, the orcs are spread as farback as osgiliath

so, 20 miles of orcs

someone watch the preview for RotK on the TTT DVD. It was a layout of all the orcs. that might be the easiest way to count them all.

^^ peter jacksons says a rough estimate of 200,000....

Discos - no chance,

If you are talking about the films, then there were in the hundreds of thousands. That is just one of the MANY things that PJ got way wrong. I'll give you that even in the books Mordor had probably five hundred thousand to a million men, orcs, trolls, etc. However, in the books Mordor's force at Pellennor Fields was not more than fifty thousand. At the Black Gate they were probably close to a couple hundred thousand. I'll have to reread some things before I'm sure about the numbers at the gate.

Adam

what ??

you got some stuff wrong there, the book does quite specify that there is roughly 10,000 orcs/men/trolls whatever, atthe black gate