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I dont know about anyone else (except Ushgarak) but, what did you guys think about tom Bombadil's absence in FoTR

For those who don't know...

Tom Bombadil is an incredibly obscure figure whose presence mostly baffled readers of the original book- but amused them in no small way as well.

He is a very powerful being whom the Hobbits meet during their journey to Bree (mostly cut from the film). He takes them in, plays with the Ring as if it were a mere toy, and starts to sing about his clothes and what a jolly fellow is. To quote:

"Old Tom Bombadil is a merry old fellow
Bright Blue his coat is, and his boots are yellow"

And then our heroes move on. No explanation for any of this is ever offered.

Now, I have always maintained that the sight of this garish nutter singing about hos boots and what a nice guy he is would have had most the audience of the film leaving...

But on a more practical note, no adaptation of LOTR has evern included Tom Bombadil, and with good reason. LOTR is absolutely HUGE, and you need to cut everything that isn't necessary- it's long enough as it is! And there can be nothing more irrelevant to the plot than Tom Bombadil.

I never saw it that way. That kinda makes sense because it would be boring. But you have to admit he did add enchantment to the book.

or do you think that he shouldnt even have been in the book?

I don'' think he thinks that, but you are a bit unclear on what you think about him in the book, ush.

rite, you only say he wouldnt be an asset to the movie. what about the book?

He IS amusing, I give him that, and things would not quite be the same without him. But the thing that most outs off people about the book is the slow start. He doesn't help matters.

the book did have an extremely slow start. when i told my freind to read it, she stopped and said it wasnt "adventurous enough". on the other hans i HAD to keep reading.

Of course, it is worth sticking with. And in many ways the start is very good, even if it is slow.

But the sad fact remains that the slow start is oputting too many people off! Thank God for the film; that has encouraged LOADS of people to read it all, now they see what happens later!

yeah. it kinda makes me happy when people want to read it. maybe cause i got so attached. what about you?

Oh yes, I'm delighted at the new uptake. Even the illustrious founder and owner of this site is now reading it all!

"just spreadin' the love". they really are great books!

They'll probably go back and film it for DVD, along with the Lothlorien part where the orcs pass by and when Gollum follows them (up the tree in Lorien, in the Great River as a log, etc.) and Farmer Maggot's farm, etc.

Do you think they'll make LOTR Legos?

can't really imagine them making legos out of it, no.

It'd be pretty cool if they did.

The Bridge of Khazad-dum:
Comes with Gandalf, Frodo, the Balrog, and 2 Orcs.
Make the Bridge and the stairs leading out.

The Death of Boromir:
Comes with Aragorn, Boromir, Uruk-Hai Leader, and 4 Uruk-Hai.
Make a couple of trees and a hill.

Buckleberry Ferry:
Comes with Frodo, Merry, Pippin, Sam, and 3 Ringwraiths w/horses.
Make the Ferry, the dock, and a few trees.

Saruman's Tower:
Comes with Gandalf, Saruman, the King of the Eagles, 2 Orcs, and the Uruk-Hai Leader.
Make a small scale version of Saruman's Tower, the biggest one of the set.

Those would be them in my opinion.

you have such a vivid imagination, captain.

Why thank you m'Lady. I have a very large imagination. I write stories and draw in my spare time. I just started a LOTR-like one, but it still has all my ideas.

like elves and stuff, i like to draw fantasy stuff too.

to add tom in the movie would've made no sense to those who didn't read the book...as it stands, those that have read the book still can't understand why the ring had no effect on him...

there are loads of theories and opinions about him...but as amusing as he was, the book would have been hard put to explain how they got out of the downs...

since it was he that rescued said hobbits...

hehe i was going to bump this up the other day

needs merging. Have a thread like this already

beat ya!!!

Tom bombadil is a scary old guy who has lived a long time, not to mention he was born a loooooong time ago. His age is unknown but it is a large number.

I just figure he is a very old (but doesn't seem old), who likes to sing and has powers

when i first read the book I always thought Tom was a very old man, perhaps because i saw a film with a very old man with a feather in his hat

It's just like a lot of very complex, long stories - in order to make it digestable in a visual format, certain sacrifices have to be made, and new things written in just so the story playing on the screen makes any sense. Tom Bombadil is, sadly, one of those things - but then again, so is the fact that there's an almost 10-year long gap between when Frodo gets the One Ring and when he actually leaves The Shire. He's a lot younger in the movies than the character is in the books. And Sam's a couple decades younger than him in the books - he refers to Frodo as his master. The whole story of Smeagol/Gollum is actually told to the reader in "Fellowship of the Ring", and it has you understanding very early on exactly what kind of moral character he has - ALL BAD. But Gollum's first real appearance in the books, his first interaction with other characters, not just being referred to or told of by another character, isn't until much, much later. Peter Jackson, I think, has done an excellent & thoughtful job of bringing this story to the screen. He's remained as true to the the books as one can, and still not have people falling asleep in their seats. There would be far too far too much explaining to do if he'd tried to bring the books to the big screen as they are written - one good example: the format of The Two Towers. Tolkein wrote the first half so that it told the story Aragorn/Gimli/Legolas/Helm's Deep from beginning to end, and the entire time you're desperate to find out what happens to Frodo & Sam - then halfway thru the book he goes back to the parting at the river, and tells you what became of Frodo & Sam. Inspired - the 2nd time I read it ( I was about 12 the 2nd time), it had me flipping back and forth excitedly trying to put together a timeline in my head. It also gives you a very distinct feeling of just how alone Frodo & Sam were; they had never in their lives ever been so alone. Adapting books to screenplays is no small task when the story is this complex - ever read the Harry Potter series? The books are absolutely amazing!! But it's the same thing - these movies (actually both LOTR & H Potter series) are in excess of 2hrs each - in the US avg run time is what? 90 mins? any longer & they wouldn't be blockbusters at all, most Americans would just consider them to be butt-busters, no $$ there. Whew! shutup sorry so wordy...

*yawn*

that was quite soar on the eyes shadowy

Discos - wait a min ....thats some new posting long posts

...that response to my posting, Discos...it's so, ummm - moronic. Or were you just drunkenly ranting again? Maybe if you should try actually responding to what I wrote, hmmmm? If you can't say something nice....well, no use in finishing that, since obviously you can't. Try again, little drummer boy.

Tom was never meant to be anything but an anomoly, a conundrum(heh...i like that word)...no explainations for him whatsoever...i firmly believe that he was there before the coming of the valar...

I remember reading somewhere - can't recall - that there were or are things in Arda that are older than the valar...but that's pure speculation

you be quiet non-drunken rant non-drummer person

oh so the little drummer boy finally speaks - albeit still nothin'nice comes forth from his pie-hole....and don't hold back so much, Discos, my precious, g'on and tell me to shut-up....best you take your frustrations on someone who can dish it back intelligently, you might learn a few multi-syllabic words in the process...

...okay sorry about the Discos...

'multi-syllabic'...

still love yah, yah big galoot

Feanor's got the right idea - he responds with an intellectual classiness I guess Insane Drummers find difficult to master...must be too busy beating on their own drums....

do I need to talk so correct on forms of english, I am scottish I speak in ony language I want ken fit am sayin like?

You have been entered on my bad side ya piece of shit, slag me all you want but you can keep your little hardcore cocaine party!

this is a tom bambadil thread, not something for you prissy little losers to rant on about members for, this is bashing I say! bashing"

Moni V

You mocked discos---i admire you

But, i dont think it is an intelligent idea to be starting arguments with him.

Smile, be happy

grr.....let me out my cage master, only 1 will die tonight!...we swears, we swear

*places key in the lock--lets discos out*

*runs out thread and watches through triple pane bulletproof glass*

Geez you guys. No need to be soooo sensitive, and offensive, and....boorish.

PLEASE




I agree with Discos, this is a Tom Bombadil-Thread and not one purposed for linguistical and phrase-morphologic discussions;



I. "And even in a mythical Age there must be some enigmas, as there always are. Tom Bombadil is one (intentionally)"
-- The probably most-quoted letter of Tolkien, #144

He isn't really a conundrum, conundrums have solutions
TB doesn't


II. Something in this direction is found especially in the Lost Tales where Tolkien writes about fairiespixiesetc, mentioning spirits / creatures older than the Maiar, but I don't think this can be transducted to the Silmarillion-or-Lotr-stage Middle-earth where the hierarchy is a lot clearer; In the Beginning there was Eru and only Eru and he is all that existed before the Ainur.



edit
thx shadowy

but i phrased it so because he is a difficult problem as in what exactly is Tom B...an enigma yes...defination of anomoly: anomaly - a person who is unusual

thereby i stand on that principal...i never meant to offend friend Discos and moni _v more than likely was defending herself...

but being boorish though it would seem so, was not intended however...

TB is imo the only contradictory character of Tolkien's work...

Anomaly,
yea, that is a perfect word to describe him and probably his purpose if he has one

I'm not really sure about conundrum as the word is also often used for jocular questions which Tom doesn't really represent... ^^

Anomaly though, that's the essence of his character, he is "made to be different" ^^
I mean, we don't even know / will never know to what people / family / "race" (ie Mortals, Elves, Ainur etc) he belongs neither where he comes from, we don't know why he reacts as he reacts, and all that clearly differs him from practically all other characters

He often seems so random with his independant nature


Contradictory?
Hm. Maybe - - -

hmmm...well in a sense only because he is neither here nor there...TB being an earlier work of his meant as a tale for children, but then entered into the lotr trilogy, maybe as an afterthought or as a way to explain their rescue from the barrowdowns...

it contradicts the whole aspect of the beginnings of Ea and Arda...since before Eru there were none then came the Ainur...yet it states that were beings before the coming of the valar...

*curtsies, tips her head down shamefully*

I apologize most profusely to all of you, even you Discos, I was just, indeed, defending myself. Feanor is my hero, tho....

But I stick by what I was saying, Tom is just an unfortunate casualty of the moviemaking process - it would have been fun to see his house in the forest and the whole dinner romp where Frodo hands him the Ring, then he makes it disappear after putting it on (to no effect whatsoever on Tom) up on the big screen, though....

LOL..I didn't mean to imply that you guys, moni_v and Discos initially intended to be rude to each other, but 'ya know...I was just shocked..and sad to what happened to this thread.

Glad to know it's OK now.

i found it funny....

Why doesn't that surprise me?

Tom is nothing
Tom was flung into the story because tolkiens kids liked him
cos tolkien would tell them all about his adventures.
he was based on a doll they had.

a doll does not transform into an elf-a maia-a vala-a man-a dwarf.
Nothing---tolkien stuck it in because in the beginning LOTR was simply supposed to be a sequel to the hobbit, a childrens book---he knew his kids like tom
so why wouldnt others, 'i will throw him in there '

tolkien wrote some great books and was a teacher at universities, he was smart, but not smart enough to sit down one day and think up an all new creature lik tom-give him a 'specific nature' and geneology, and then decide to throw hints about his other books.

tom is only mentioned in 'The Lord Of The Rings' and a little in 'the advventures of tom bombadil'

whats not mentioned about him in there, is a mysetry

^^ that I didn't know,

Tom was very weird in the first few pages of the chapter "in the house of Tom Bambadil"

found it very concerning how he over-looked the hobbits sleeping

although, he did have the very very right things to say the the hobbits before they went to sleep which 3 of them quoted to themselves when awakening from nightmares

Discos - aww.....

why the hells my writing in red

I Have a new theory,

I think Tom is keeper and Gaurdian of Middle Earth, its definetaly most likely he was in Middle Earth before or during the time of the trees.

Something between a Maia and a Vala perhaps

I don't know if this has already been posted here but did anyone see the picture of Tom Bombadil in the official LotR fan club magazine?There's also Goldberry.

erm, I have seen the one posted on the trading cards, think he had grey hair though

Oh yeah it was for the trading cards.

Wot colour is his hair meant to be?

brown,

but he mostly wears a hat with a feather through it

Discos - blue hat :cofused: ?

The thing that is blue is his feather


Here's the Trading-Card-pic again --

i thot it sed he has a yelllow jacket...mind u i hav a bad memory...n i read FOTR like 3 months ago...so....just ignore me lol...

It may have been yellow boots.

yellow boots indeed,

the animated version seems completely accurate I mustsay

I do not recall ever seeing the animated version. But your assumption may be correct.

well he has brown hair and a brown beard, 2 secs i will find a ye olde pic

this looks more like the jolly singing Tom as we know

not some grey haired bushy coat guy

I just wish Pj had included him in the movie

I got sort of annoyed and distracted for a minute when they jumped the ferry and suddenly ended up straight at Bree/prancing pony

like the river was next to the bleeding gate of the place!

Discos - wants uncle Tom

From the ferry to the Prancing Pony did seem laughable, 20 miles would be a long trek even by river, and why were they not followed by Nazgul along the river? So that when they landed, they would have been there waiting for the hobbits.

it also made it seem they were well afraid of the water

and yet they weren't afraid to cross the river by rivendell...

absense? he was in th fellowship.

^^ not in the movie man,

@feanor, yes but they stopped before reaching it and queried wether to cross it

n then they got washed away like mud oin a tshirt in the washing machine...

sure why not

anyways back to Tom, I bet Tom could have done that too

anyone else found it the slightest bit weird that Sam,Pippin & merry woke up and had no clothes on but mere carments of gold for clothing....due to Tom taking off their clothes when they were sleeping

lol na am kidding, I wouldnt of licked to sleep in cold shit

they should have had chosen Tom to be the ring bearer, I mean y the hell didint they do that, so stupit

They explain it quite well in the book, where it's also suggested - Bombadil is a little careless about things like that, he wouldnt understand the importance of the Ring or at least not take it for serious
He was absolutely not influenced by its powers - even doesnt become invisible - and would probably have forgotten about it after a few days.

who are they? Tolkien, council of Elrond, the guy who works at Tesco?

mmm....what Exa said wouldnt be entirely true (the part about invisible and not being drawn by its powers is true...), I mean if someone like Elrond or Gandalf went to Tom and presented him with the task I am sure he would of took it the better part serious?

I don't really think so.
Bombadil isn't really concerned by the thoughts of the great, of the leaders, he does not really have the will to fight. He is a peaceful man and definitely not the right one to ask to be the ringbearer

was it Erestor who suggested it?

mmm.....although Tom is a mysterious character and wise one, I say i sway my vote that he didnt get the ring, I dont think he would be able to defend it against the foes

Discos - unless it was old willow

Fascinating,
this is the most important information about Bombadil in the whole book,
and yet it doesnt appear in the indeces in my editions, took me ages to find it

good stuff, is there anything in the unfinished tales of gandalf/Erestor ever meeting Tom?

In the Unfinished Tales? No, there isn't a single word about Tom Bombadil in there

.......but in LoTR there are some hints at the end of the book--

(Gandalf: )



--- that definitely sounds like Gandalf knowing Bombadil quite well.

most likely, cheers for that info

I cant remember that bit being at the end of the book, its been nearing 2 years since I have read the book

I found it when I was searching for the other quote some postings ago

It's when the Hobbits are returning to the Shire and near Bree leave Gandalf who had accompagnied them because he is going to see Bombadil again while they're directly going to the Shire, though Frodo says he'd also like to visit Bombadil again

before the scouring?

Exactly

... would be interesting what would have happened if Gandalf had accompagnied the Hobbits instead of visiting Bombadil

scouring would have ended quicker I would imagine,

it would have been great if the hobbits failed and Gandalf & Tom came to the shire like a team and kicked ass?

Discos - ......so its just me then

Hmmm, I don't think that Tom Bombadil could go beyond the Old Forest.

shaber of course he can, he made several vistis to farmer ******

oops I ment Maggot

He could leave
but

good quote, was that not in the barrow-downs chapter?

anyways, I think it was just a bit outwith the old forest ya know, a diameter of Farmer maggots house till about the end of where he left the hobbits to carry forth there journey.......prancing pony seems a bit far?

Discos - is Tom constantly drunk?