Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Alright, this forum has gotten really, _really_ slow...We need to have a good debate about the Matrix, Animatrix, etc. I haven't any idea what this debate should be about, however, but i know we need one. So, this thread is for debate topics. When we come up with a good debate, we shall start another thread for that debate. So, ideas...

have we setelled on why link couldn't see neo after his visit to mobil ave?

oh oh i have one i have one!

should a new "good" Smith programme be created to help the cookie baking Industry?

i like Korri's better...

no, um...i don't know if we settled on why Link couldn't see Neo...what was the argument?

Neo technically wasn't in the Matrix. He was in a half-way point. The monitor isn't connected to the half-way point, so Link can't see him.

but link still cannot see him when he was in the car drving with the crew to go see the oracle. it has been said that mobil ave cloaked neo when he got there, but the thing is trinity went there herself to retrieve neo from mobil ave.

There was no cloaking. Neo wasn't plugged into the matrix, therefore Link couldn't see him. It would be like trying to use your mouse when it wasn't plugged into your computer.

that could be... but remember they jacked him out old school, so he had to be plugged. and i don't think link could've put neo in the chair by himself. so i'm thinking before morph and trin hacked in, neo was already jacked in but not connected (does that make sense?).

no, that doesn't make sense. When Neo jacked into the Matrix, he was standing in the tunnel watching 5 Sentinels fly towards him. His mind touched the mainframe, in a wireless way, so instead of him being jacked in, he is wirelessly connected. However, there are not supposed to be any wireless connections, so the Matrix code will show that there is, indeed something there, kinda like a placeholder bit in a byte, but since he is not connected to the Matrix in a hardline, direct physical connection, he is not 'seen'. All while Neo was in the Mobile Ave., he was on the table, being watched by the nurse. She even said it looked like Neo was plugged in, which scared them because he WASN'T plugged in. Also, remember that there were two crews on the Hammer, when Neo was jacked out. There was the crew of the Hammer, plus Morpheus and Trinity, because, remember, they jacked out while Neo went to see the New shell of the Oracle. Thus, they moved Neo's body into a chair, plugged him in, and when Neo was ready to jack out, he went to a hardline, Link made the call, Neo picked up, and Link routed Neo's mind into his body.

so, in essence, you said the exact opposite. You said he was jacked in but not connected, when in fact he was connected but not jacked in.

doh, forgot about the other crew... i have to watch my dvd asap.

and what i meant by the jacked in thing is this...

neo was wirelessly connected to the matrix, right? and theoretically, he couldn't disconnect that same way. so when he was in the chair he was disconnected until he brought back into the matrix which made him plugged in old school style, therefor enabling link to jack neo out old school style.

i am having the hardest time explaining this. that's probably why i am interpreted wrong. but what i meant was the "neo jacking out" part on jedih's post... which makes this post utterly confusing and useless... and pointlessly made my own head hurt.

so i said what you meant? is that what you mean?

Heh, Bane's head wasn't really "chopped" off by Neo, just the Smith image. Debate closed from November

yes you did...

yeah..

The Architect's job is to keep order in the Matrix. The Matrix is just one super-huge program. The basics behind programs are mathmatical equations. That's why he wants to balance the equation. To keep the program running smoothly.
The Oracle wants to "unbalance" the equation. She wants to throw in randomness in the equation. That's my best guess.

Whose dead body they showed right after Superbrawl? And what did that mean?

yeah that puzzled me....why was the oracle dead?? and why just show her body..i mean there must have been many people "trapped" By Smiddy cloning himself....what was the significance of just showing The Oracle?

If you noticed, all the people they showed were programs, no real people. I'm wondering if just the programs survive the "reloading"(Or whatever it was) of the matrix. Perhaps that is where the "crops were lost"?

OMG! What, did you dig up that thread? That was the first thing I posted in when I joined KMC...ahh, that was an interesting thread...okay, not really. I got in a fight with someone on here not 2 hours after joining (and no, I wasn't the one convinced that Bane's head was actually chopped off for those who don't remember that )

Heh...the whole 'Neo isn't seen by Link' thing I thought got argued to death...I honestly stopped following it after a while though.

We need something to rouse us humans from the strange dreams of defeat and despair....

I think it means that the Architect is trying to keep the Matrix running. He is there to ensure that the anomaly does exactly what the machines want him to do. The Oracle, through her understanding of humans and the way the human thinks, is there to help the anomaly to express the humanity and thus save humanity. but by 'saving' humanity, it must bring in a new Matrix, rather an iteration that is different because the humans can now understand cohabitation with that which is different.Yes, i believe the Oracle has gone through all the iterations, because i know (as opposed to as late as nov. 5th) believe she is the mother of the matrix.I don't think she lost her omnipotency, based on the actions of Smith while using the Oracles shell. She can still look past the choices others don't understand, however the Matrix is now different, making necessary a different kind of Oracle. She may not be necessary any more, now that the war isn't over. in a way, she has lost her omnipotence because of this fact, but i think she is far from useless. Again, i don't think she lost it to begin with, so no.



Just because you don't see anyone other than the programs, doesn't mean they aren't still alive. Bane was still alive, even though Smith took over his mind and caused massive brain damage. if you are refering to Architect in "Reloaded" when he is refering to the first iteration of the Matrix, then you are mistaken. I believe the humans are still alive, and still in the matrix, otherwise, well, why not just free the humans as they are? they are babies, they don't know any different. No, i believe that the humans are still alive, due to the Oracle/Architect dialogue at the end of Revolutions.

I just scanned through this thread - I might read it too - and I see a LOT of writing. Jedi, thank you for turning the debating side of this forum back on again.

i didn't know i turned it 'on'...i just thought i was bringin it back...

So anyway...

how long do you think the peace will last between Man & machine?

"as long as it can"...

ok then

hahaha...i don't know how long it will last...at least this generation and the next generation...if the Zionites can teach their children respect, and cohabitation, then it could last indefinitely...

That wouldn't be too hard. Probably the smarter inhabitants will teach thier kids that the machines are "good" but weren't before. On the other hand, people with unextinguished hatred for them will continue to teach children tat tey are evil...

was the "how come no humans were shown after the superbrawl" question answered with a definite-- errrr-- answer? did we agree on something with that issue?

Not really.

No humans were shown after the Superbrawl because it wouldn't have added anything to the story to show people walking around dazed and confused...it is my opinion that showing people would have detracted from the glory they were trying to show with the sunrise.

I've started a good debate in my latest post in the "Holes in The Matrix Movies" thread.

...I actually got into a big debate with one of my friends about no humans being shown in the Matrix after the Superbrawl while we were watching the movie Thursday night...

Yeah that would be kinda weird if there were flocks of ppl walking past seraph and the oracle talking. It'd be kinda funny. Also, how the hell did Rama Kandra, his wife and sati get into the train station??? There is no way in. No doors, nothing. Who would fix the Mobil Ave sign neo (Neo's stunt double which was really obvious on the DVD) was smashed into. What happens to the programs bag that Neo left? Wat was in the bag, why did sati's mum and dad get on the train if they were going back to the machine world? And if they were going to the machine world, how could they because the train only goes one way at a time which is pretty stupid there is one platform and one railway line. The're are no vending machines in Limbo land, no bins, no banners, Why is the train man dirty, when the station is so clean. If the train man is dirty and is god in the limbo land then why doesn't he either make himself clean or the station dirty, like the one platformed subway scene like in the first movie. That'd be pretty kewl if the bum from the first movie that smith takes over was the trainman. Yes, back to the subject lots of questions about Mobil Ave, wat would happen if Neo was in the tunnel at the station, if he ran the same way he did in M3, at exactly the same time the train was coming wouldn't he merge with the train and get stuck? That is all. For the moment.

Omega> yup yup...

there was a comic like that...the one where the guy pilots the ship...against the aliens...if i remember correctly...probably not.

kewl, i hope it does

Alright, I just watched the Matrix Trilogy AGAIN and I have some questions and statements, I'm sure they've been said and asked and after I hurry up and get these off my chest before I forget them(already have forgotten most...) I'll search and then say what I've found...

1)In Reloaded, The Keymaker says that Neo has "314 seconds" to open the door of light...Does this have any religious meaning?

2)The cat in Revo(end) is obviously them 'changing something'(as they put it in M1). Obviously, they changed everything.

3)I finally saw the cross.

4)I finally saw the blossom.

5)Is the Oricle connected to the source? If so, what stopped agents from stopping her from helping the rebels? I.E. Taking her over.

xeous> i don't know if ut has been mentioned that 314 has a religious connetction in the movie but 314 is the numerical value of pi... actually it's 3.14...

and i think all programs are connected to the source except for the exiles...

whatshisface>Actually, 22/7 is pi...It comes out to 3.14somethingsomethingsomething...It's infinate

well...22/7 is a very rough estimate...there are closer approximations, but pi is an infinitely continuing, unrepeating decimal number...

you didn't actually expect me to type in an infinite number didya?

if twins, triplets, etc. are glitches in the matrix, would the twin RSI's come from one body (mind)?

i was unaware that twins were glitches...do twins share the same mind now?

Was Oracle an exile?

depends on your definition of 'exile'...

if i am not mistaken, it was mentioned in the revisited dvd that the "lady in red" program had a lot of twins and/or triplets to show that the matrix did indeed have glitches... if so, would a pod grown mind be able to produce 2 RSI's?

OOOOHHH...no, if i remember correctly, the twins and triplets were shown to show that Mouse is resourceful and didn't take the time to write code for all those people...he just made iterations of the same object...they aren't glitches...

hhhhhhmmmmmmmm, i'm gonna have to watch that dvd again... i'm slipping...

No, the Oricle wasn't an exile. She was there to do what she was there to do.

yeah...she had a purpose. But there is a difference between having a purpose, and being an exile (with respect to the Merv). The Merv doesn't like her, probably because she helped Seraph and thus Seraph left Merv to protect the Oracle, and thus she has to stay away from him. She is an exile in that respect. However, She DOES have a purpose, and so she is not TRULY an exile. So, to answer your question, no...and yes.

She isn't an exile. You're slipping, Jedi.

I have a thought

You know how the sentinals couldnt reach the sky when Trinity pulls the logos upwards and they all fall off. If the machines cant get to the sky why cant the humans make some sort of civilization in the sky. I mean they have all the energy that they need from the sun i dunno maybe that wouldnt work it was just an idea

the problem is, how would they get up there? there is the problem between the air and the ground, that could be covered by sentinels...and if the humans built something through the clouds, i bet the sentinels, just by sheer size and numbers, could tear is down...

yeah good point....

Before the end of the war maybe but not afterwards surely.

And yes the Oracle is an exile. Like what Rama Kandra said about karma it is what I am here to do. She was initially designed to investigate certain aspects of the human pyhsce.

Now i'm not saying that she does not have purpose, everybody in the matrix has purpose but the difference between being an exile or not is whether you chose the purpose already determined for you by the Architect on the creation or your self defined purpose if it differs from his.

i disagree...noone can choose their own purpose. Smith did not choose to be the opposite of Neo, it just happened.

You can't choose what you are true, but you can choose what you do surely? Otherwise why would it be a matrix of choice? The problem of choice would not exist.

You can choose what you do, but you cannot choose the ultimate reason they are put on the Earth (in the Matrix). I am a big proponent of choice, but i also see that there is a purpose behind everything, and we cannot choose against our purpose...we may make choices against our purpose every once in a while, but out ultimate path follows our purpose.

As it explains in the book 'Matrix warrior' we make choices, but ONLY with a given number of choices. But we are only given a certain number of ways we can react, or make choices. we are not making the choice, we only think we are.

I liked the way you rephrased what I said. But You see that there is purpose behind everything or you believe that there is purpose behind everything? Subtle but important difference.

i see that there is purpose behind everything. there are numerous times in the movies where, if the characters had been a second off, everything woulf have been lost. This shows that there is something guiding them beyond their own choices, that there is something above them or beyond them that shapes what happens.

i think thats what i said. its kind of like being asked a multi choice question and theres four possible answers, u cant pick answer #5 because there are only four answers. same with the choice thing in the matrix.

but that's not what i'm saying. It's like being given an essay test when your teacher already knows what you are going to write and has graded your test already. well, not exactly, but that's the general idea.

oh goody we gonna argue again

But there is a point. Is there really freedom of choice if the choice is limited?

But I agree with Jedi, because you were talking about the film, I thought you were talking about real life (If there is such a thing).

are the twins dead?

no, they aren't dead. they didn't die when the escalade exploded.

what happened to them?

I kidnapped them and brought them to my lair where i mur...umm i mean they died of totally natural causes

...and you are really on roland's lap

Yes i am, what's ur point?

if the twins arent dead then why werent they with the merv in revolutions?

maybe they were on assignment. i dunno. do i really care? no.

i think jedi agreed with me...again

hey Jedi is of the shizz variety

??? the shizz variety? i am unfamiliar with this term

i woulda accepted "they ARE dead" better than that, so i will assume exactly that until proven so...

THE TWINS ARE DEAD! THE TWINS ARE DEAD! Woohoo!

Should Korri take Trinity's place?

lol...yeah, sure, why not...it's not like anyone else would want Neo...

not if i have anything to do with it

lol Korri