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When Smith called the Oracle 'Mom' in Revs, was he referring to her as the mother of the Matrix (courtesy of that bigmouth the architect) or was he saying something else entirely?

I always thought he was implying that she is the mother of the matrix myself.

ya i think that all its saying is that she is the "mother of the matrix" as the aechitect says in reloaded

Personally I agree with all of you. However (just to offer an alternative), I once read a fanfic in which the Oracle created Smith (and all other Agents). I can't remember the title or the author or anything, sorry.

The Oracle is not Smiddy's mum


although they do have alot in common

Could have been saying it from that girls point of view, *has forgoten her name* Cause now that her parents are gone the Oracle would be like her mother

no, because the one to the side was the one that took over Sati...look at the scene again...it is possible that he is talking through one of he people he took over, but i doubt it...

Just have watched the whole film again, and I recon I was most likely wrong
However the reason why he called her "mom" was because she called him a "Bastard" which means A child born out of wedlock (Fatherless) does it not? So he could be just saying it in responce to that

that is also very true...it may have been just meant as a retort, a powerful one at that, because, if someone is a bastard, and you are the mother, that makes you even worse off than he...if that makes sense...

Nonono, i was just wondering because the architect says that the oracle was created (or wahtever) to help understand why the first (?) matrix wasnt working. There were (presumably) agents in the first matrix, so if that is true then how can the oracle be the mother of the agents?

We've already gone over the reasons why the word Mom was used and it should have answered the question "how can the oracle be the mother of the agents?" the Mother of the Matrix or like Jedi said a retort, a powerful one

Smith called the Oracle mom as an insult to her insult.

But it has raised a theory that I like to tell.

Thomas means Twin in another language, and since Smith and Neo have a connection, it is implying that Smith and Neo are twins.

Since Smith is a program of the system and so is The One technically, so the Architect and Oracle are Mother and Father of The Virus and The One.

This also implies that the A in Thomas A. Anderson stands for "Agent"

Woah...getting a little ahead of ourselves, aren't we? Thomas also means doubting or doubter, which is what Mr. Anderson was, a doubter of the system. the Name, Thomas A. Anderson means, Thomas is doubting, A. could be Alpha, as in the first, or the beginning, and Anderson is 'son of man'. Thus, Thomas A. Anderson is, the first, or predominant, doubting son of man. It is also a religious context. Jesus said "I am the Alpha and the Omega" and he was the "Son of Man". I'm not saying that there are not other interpretations, but it is generally accepted that his name is a reflection of who he is, just like Neo, Morpheus, Persephone, Merovingian, etc. Also, if Thomas means Twin, it is possible it is refering to the fact that he is not the first, but he is the same.

In reference to the "mom" thing.

I have said this in another thread recently. The Oracle's job is to unbalance the equation, whereas The Architect tries to balance it. So if 'Smith' WAS created by the Oracle, then that would mean she is trying to unbalance the equation. Wonder who (or the code that he carries) the Architect created then

Didn't think of it that way but you have a point as always Sifer

When Neo called Oracle's name in front of the Architect when he was talking about the Mother of the Matrix then what did the Artichect mean by saying "Please...". ???

He meant that although he considered her to be the mother of the matrix, he did not consider her to be an Oracle just an intuitive program originally designed to investigate certain aspects of the Human psyche.

But the mother of the matrix and that "just intuitive program" originally designed to investigate certain aspects of human psyche is one and the same thing as long as i remember.

Yes, but he disagreed with calling her an Oracle...she didn't receive the future from divining...she just read the code...

It's a bit like the legend of Merlin, he knew the future because he remembered.

i fail to see how the two are related...

If I remember the myth of Merlin correctly if not then I'm wrong.

Merlin knew the future because he lived backwards through time, therefore he knew the future because he simply remembered it.

In the case of the Oracle, the scenarios with the integral anamolies kept on repeating themselves with each version of the matrix. Ergo it's not so much that the Oracle could see the future as more remembered it from the last time around.

Hence why the Architect although accepting that she was the mother of the matrix, did not regard her as an Oracle.

+2 For Ergo but, -1 for not using Visa Vi when starting the next paragraph.

didnt the architect say something like

"if i am the father of the matrix then she would be the mother"


isnt that what smith meant when he called her mom?

Just for you I'll do better next time.

That's y i was asking, it was just at that point in the film it was like Smith and the Oracle had some past history...no not THAT kind of past history.

No, no no no...We have no proof that any iteration was anything like it's previous iteration. Thus, we must assume they were completely different. The Oracle is a program designed to read the code of the Matrix, and specifically humans, in order to 'know' what a given person would choose. Thus, it seems as if she knows the future, when in reality, she is just understanding a person and their choices. she is the ultimate reader of humans, as she can know exactly what they will do at a given moment. it is not because it has happened exactly as before (and i will, if you wish, explain how it is IMPOSSIBLE for the Oracle to know exactly what is going to happen solely based on what has happened), but, rather, she can read the coding of a person's RSI and see what their decisions will be.

so, does everybody think the oracle is smith's "mother"?

i dont know thats y im 4^(|<!u9 asking

aaaaaaaaaaaahhhh, so not everybody. well that includes me. i think that the oracle is not the creator of smith but the architect. who created the anomaly? the oracle... but that's just me...

umm...huh?

i think that the oracle engineered the anomaly code and the achitect engineered the smith program.

i still dont believe that neo was an anomaly. yes im sure that some of u disagree with me, but so what? not everyone agrees with everyone else.

so, neo was... normal?

no what i am saying is that neo was not some anomaly deliberately created by the machines

He wasn't designed by the machines...He's a screw up in the program. The Architect actually tried to "get rid of him".

i'm with you. if you mean they didn't design neo to be the one from the very beginning then, yes, i totally agree with you.

:Oawwww...y wont anyone (but jedi) argue with me

well this is my logic and i posted it in jedi's thread but i will post it hear again, just for you...

when neo was in the tv room talking sh!t with the archi, the archi said that his "life was a sum of a remainder of an equation inherent to the programming of the matrix". which from my understanding is (1) the anomaly code was an accident (2) neo wasn't chosen but rather a casualty of the unsolvable equation. and like xeous said, the architect made his sincerest efforts to eliminate him in what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precission.

which leads me to another theory that the oracle introduced that variable (the anomaly code) into the matrix without the archi knowing about it because her purpose is to unbalance the equation. and the archi created sentient programs to balance the equation.

that oracle is a sneaky ***** nope still nto falling for it

One thing I noticed that they have in common was sometyhing they said to Neo.

Smith in Reloaded "I want what you want".
Bane in Revolutions, "I want what you want"
Oracle in Revolutions, "I want what you want, and I'm willing to go as far as you are to get it."

Now considering that the Oracle didn't die at the end of the film, did Neo?