One fan's opinion and solution to an ending

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Batchoy

Ushgarak
You know, I was with you on the not accepting moral equaivalence with the machines thing... and then as soon as you suggested your own ending, that went right off the page for me... sorry, but that is way worse- Neo 'Transcends' into a higher being and turns everything into Hippie Happy Land? Oh Lord no...

JKozzy
I feel the same way as you, Ush. I feel the same way... erm

JediHDM
Seeing as how the movies are Live Anime, i would shoot myself, after shooting the bros. and joel silver, if they had done that. It doesn't need to have closure, and if you cannot understand the ending, either watch it again, or have someone explain it. alternate endings, however, won't accomplish anything.

Batchoy
I believe I understood the ending, JediHDM, but it was an ending that I didn't agree with. Sorry if you didn't like my suggested ending. I personally think that full closure on an incredible story like this was what I wanted and not just a happy hollywood ending. Self sacrifice for the good of the many or someone you love is a great theme. I'm one of those people that thought Neo's sacrifice (as well as Trinity's) was wasted. Now I don't believe Neo as "The One". He is sort of a filler or substitute player until the real ONE arrives. If I have deduced things correctly, another "One" program will be introduced back into this New Matrix sometime in the future. But this time, he/she will try to help both machine and man to live together in harmony. It seems every iteration of The One has to accomplish more than it's predecessor. If this is true, how many more resets of The Matrix must we go through until there is no need for machine to enslave man and man to fear machine. Please tell me if there are things wrong with my conclusions.

JediHDM
Full closure was not necessary for the enjoyment of this series. As i have said many times before, this movie was done exactly like an anime, albeit a live action one, thus the ending being 'open' is nothing new. The Brothers told us a long time ago, they would be true to themselves and to the Matrix story way before they were true to the fans and what the fans wanted, and if the fans weren't happy, that is the fans problem, not theirs. They made these movies not so they could be rolling in dough, but because they had a message they wanted to get out, and if you are unhappy with the message, fine, but you cannot change the ending just because it didn't suit your 'fairytale ending' type of mindset. We have discussed this at length for the past six months, and for much longer before that, and there is not another ending could make me any happier about the series than what happened. The Bros. are amazing minds, they have read much more than i have, and posibly much more than everyone i know, and they used this amazing library of information, on everything from fiction to religion, from philosophy to politics, created this wonderful...symphony of ideas that assaulted the mind and forced the viewer to think, to reason, to problem solve.

And i disagree with your view of what a happy hollywood ending is. Your 'fairy tale ending' is EXACTLY what Hollywood would have made the movie end like, and it is exactly what the Bros. were trying to stay away from. Neo didn't die, he is still alive. Read the threads in this forum, because we have debated these very ideas for months before 11/5, and we have come to conclusions...

Neo IS the One. As has every other anomaly in every other iteration of the matrix. Neo, however, was able to overcome what he was supposed to do, and do what he NEEDED to do, which was bring Human and Machine back to equal. He did this by realizing what the Oracle was telling him, and by doing what was right, even if that's not his original plan. He is the ultimate dynamic thinker, changing plans to suit the need on the spot, without hesitation. This is evidenced by His stopping the Sentinels with his mind, even though he had no idea what he was doing; by letting Smith take him over, even though he had no intention of giving up. The anomaly was used by the machines, until they had built up a religion around the Anomaly, calling him the ONE, and forcing him down the path they choose for him, until he is faced with a choice; reset the matrix and allow humanity to thrive, or don't reset the matrix and allow all of humanity to perish. Despite what he 'knew' would happen, Neo risked saving Trinity, because his love was so pure, so true, that he was willing to risk everything to save her, even if that meant humanity would perish. None of the other anomalies had experienced love, so their choice was easy. Neo, one could say, was more human than all the other Ones, thus, he was able to make the necessary choice to end the war. Neo knew that Trinity was going with him, and he allowed it, because, in a egotistical way, he didn't want to be alone for what happened. But he had to be alone, not just physically, but in love as well...Trinity had to die. From a standpoint of how to accomplish the impossible, that is how to save humanity, Trinity had outlived her usefulness...So that when the time came, if Neo had to sacrifice himself, he would not hold back because of her. And he did have to sacrifice himself. Neo knew that he would most likely die when he made the deal with Deus ex machina. He would rather have died saving them, than be the only one left alive if he failed. So, when the Oracle, speaking through Smith, said "everything that has a beginning, has an end, Neo", he knew what he must do. Everything became so clear to him. He finally understood Smith, and the Oracle, and the Architect. He understood everything that was plaguing him, every doubt, every question, were gone. His purpose was before him, and he reached out with both hands. He allowed Smith to overtake him, because the equation would remain balanced until Neo was no longer there. However, in Neo's selfless act, something happened, something unforeseen, but understood. Neo transcended himself, transcended his physical body, his mental cell. It is symbollically expressed by the Lotus, the flower which Neo's glowing body seems to make, which, in Hindi traditions is symbolic of the common man transceding himself, and becoming a deity, just as the lotus rises up out of the muck of thee river, and yet, remains pure white.

The anomaly arises from the collective doubt of all those still in the Matrix. They accept the Matrix, yes, but there is still a shadow of a doubt that the Matrix is not real. That doubt continues to grow and collect, until the buffer of doubt has reached it's capacity. This causes a new anomaly to occur. While the anomaly is still alive, the doubt is funneled into him, but when he dies, the buffer once again begins to build. Neo did not die. If he did, instead of a glowing body on the 'funerary barge', we would see just a dead body. Neo, before meeting the deus ex machina, did not glow. This is a fact. however, after Smith is eradicated, his body very prominantly glows, and him, together with the barge, create a lotus blossom of light, with Neo at the center. This is why i know he is not dead. He is now fully connected to the machines, but still completely human. He has become a god-man, connected to the matrix by his mind, with no connection necessary, but he may never be 'alive' in the sense of walking around, again. However, on a side note, one should think of the Arthurian legends, as Omega points out, that the King, Arthur, sailed away to Avalon on a barge, to be healed, and if ever the need arose, he would return, to save his country. Denmark has a similar story (not to be rude, just not exactly sure what to call it other than a story..myth, legend?). The machines, i dare say, never wanted to enslave the human race. All they wanted was peace. But after repeated attempts, the machines finally decided something must be done, for humanity and machinity(?) to cohabitate. So they designed the Matrix, so that, one day, perhaps humanity would learn that cohabitation is possible, and they could allow them to live together. It is entirely up to the humans as to how long the peace lasts. The machines have never wanted anything other than peace. Neither one need fear the other any longer. Man has learned to fear the machines, and to live with them, is a necessity. Machines have always known that cohabitation is possible, but requires both sides to be on equal footing. there is no more need of any more anomalies, because the humans that doubt can finally be freed without consequence. The humans that don't desire to leave can remain in the Matrix for their entire lives, and millions will continue to live in the Matrix. In fact, they cannot support all the humans, especially if they were freed right now, because they cannot grow enough food to sustain them, they cannot live outside until they clear the skies, they cannot live together until they create more dwelling places. It is necessary, right now, for the matrix to continue, perhaps indefinitely.

i realize that is a lot to read...and it is a lot to type...but if there is anything else i have not covered that you would like covered, feel free to ask.

BioLogos
Wow.

xeous
This thread needs a sticky. Jedi just answered every question that any newbie will ever ask. I especially liked the comment of King Arthur, it's exactly what I thought of when I saw this movie the first time...Also, I never really noticed the Lotus untill the 5th time I saw the movie...Weird that I wouldn't notice something that obvious sad

VenomVA
"Hippie Happy Land" laughing Too Funny!

WOW!!!

Jedi> You answered ever question I had and could ever have about Rev. Thanks alot! Great reply

JediHDM
i didn't realize my post was that all-inclusive...

VenomVA
Well, for me it was smile

The Alpha
He is an anomaly. no expression

VenomVA
he damn sure is!

xeous
It answered all the questions that NEWBIES would have wink You're not outta the woods yet, Jedi.

JediHDM
apparently not, because i didn't make it painfully clear what the name of the last human city is...

xeous
That's a low blow to...Whatever that guy's name was...

Batchoy

xeous
Paragraphs, pal. Paragraphs.

((The_Anomaly))
this is a hot topic....the "ending" however..people tend to misunderstand what this "ending" was supposed to be, and that was, not an ending at all, it was left open for a reason, yes for more merchandise to come along (MxO, exc.) but thats not the point...i would have been diddipointed if there WAS closure at the end of these films, as thier intended purpose was to "provoke thought" (which i guess the majority of movie going noth america (canada, andUS, as well as Britian) tend not to like doing much........The ending is the ending and thiers no way to change it so let it be, its a good "ending" and hay at least the "ending"is doing what it was intended to do, since we are constantly talking about it.......

Y-chromo kid
understand? don't understand? Either line is irrelevent to me. The problem is thus - the ending of revs was [email protected]

JediHDM
According to this, i think you are not fully understanding my point. Some people will be so stubborn that they will not WANT to be freed, even after they have heard the truth. Everyone in the Matrix will be told the truth, because the rebels will still be going into the Matrix. However, they cannot save everyone at once. It will be a process. Not everyone will believe when they are told, but will have to come to the truth themselves. If the rebels were to destroy the Matrix, it wouldn't free the humans, as you said, but, rather, it would kill them all. The only way for the humans to survive is to allow the Matrix to exist. THE ONLY WAY is for the Matrix to exist. The Matrix is a necessary evil.

Batchoy
Thanks for clearing that major sticking point for me, JEDI. Your telling me that the machines are now going to help (at the very least, not stop the rebels) free the minds of the people still plugged into The Matrix. They may or may not agree to be unplugged or they may even decide to not believe it. I can accept that conclusion, but I don't necessarily have to agree with it. There are too many variables for this too work.
After a time, a vast majority of the people may have left The Matrix making this certain program not viable to run. There could be a city with only a couple hundred residents. Or a neighborhood with 2 families living in it Then the rest of the people in denial would be getting doubts about their reality, causing more and more humans to leave. What about the programs who have become more human than electronic impulses and codes.? They wouldn't want too many changes happening to The Matrix. There could be problems with them. And how about the freed humans? I would imagine that some of them would still be holding a grudge on the machines that have imprisoned them and killed many of their family and friends. They would probably try to sabotage the current peace.
I still think that another incarnation of The One is inevitable.

JediHDM
Good. However, you are forgetting that the machines grow their own humans. I don't think the machines will just stop growing humans, until they have found a viable alternative to the Matrix, such as when the humans and machines clear the skies. Also, we know, from the Matrix Online, that there will be a war between those who think the Matrix is a necessary evil, and those that want to completely destroy the Matrix. I suppose, the end of the story will be entirely up to the gamers.

xeous
What's the ETA on TMO?

JediHDM
i just got an email that says sometime in October.

Batchoy

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