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according to his abilities, he can change the size of every part of his body. So he can get unlimited strength and mass. He can use even a hand to destroy all the universe??

no

....

Apoc is a joke. There are lots of good guys that could kick his butt. I bet the Silver Surfer could do it single handedly.

Yes i am certain he could. Apocolypse ( i hate spelling that lol) may be 5000 yrs old with uncalculable strength but i dont think he could handle the power cosmic along with strength that rivals his own.

apocalypse is very powerfull, but not the most powerful, and off course silver surfer could beat him, i have no doubt on that.

In AOA magneto kills apocalypse and he is only at 50% of his power, something like that.

plus, AOA apocolypse is far stronger than regular apoc, and the AOA horseman are WAY more powerful than the regular ones

hmmm....good points

Apocalypse, as most have stated, isn't the most powerful. 5,000 yrs of planning and yet to rule Earth, that's says alot about his power and intelligence doens't it. Surfer would indeed take out Apocalypse - he is one of Galactus's top herald is he not? Just because En Sabah Nur can shape shift and stuff means jack to Surfer who could destroy a planet if he wanted to.

Will say again...Apocalypse as conceptualized by...argh, who wrote X-Factor again while Walt Simonson pencilled it? I think Walt wrote also? Anywho, he was originally supposed to be as powerful as Thanos or in that league. They have really f'ed up his character now.

As powerful as Thanos? In what category are we talking about? Thanos took blasts from Odin and Tyrant - Odin's blast easily knocked Surfer out of the fight. Thanos' output is enough that he knock guys like Thor, Surfer, Drax, and Thing on their ass. A mad Thor w/ power gem was held back by Thanos in their brawl.

Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet is awesome, how bad azz was he?
Thanos burning the shiznit out of Darkside!

Which comics do you all read this stuff in?

lets start a short list of people who could easily trash apocalypse: Stryfe, Cable, X-man, Phoenix, Goblyn Queen, Silver Surfer, The hulk, Thanos, Mephisto, Magneto, Sienna Blaze, Polaris, Typhoid Mary, Fabien Cortez, Franklin Richards, Onslaught, Thor, Dr. Strange, Dormamu, etc.

and for the record, apocalypse's creation was an afterthought! originally x-factor's main villian was gonna be a reintroduction of daredevil villian and mutant loser, the owl!!!! he was just redrawn with gauntlets in the shadow picture so marvel could capitalize on a new characer!!!!

yes apocolypse was a oddball......too powerfull to be a arch nemises like Sabretooth or Doc Ock but not "powerfull" enuf to be one of the big boys like Dr. Doom or Galactus

kinda like a above average mediocore

I doubt that Polaris or Fabian Cortez could take down apocolypse.

cortez is a vampire and polaris has nearly identical powers to magneto. sienna blaze is the most dangerous of the three since her magnetic powers are so unpredictable she can destroy the earth every time she uses them.

Polaris is nowhere near as powerful as Magneto was.

I think stryfe could, but not cable. Cable only really has telepathic skills, as his telekinetic abilities are always focused on controlling his techno organic virus, whereas stryfe is a telekinetic, and could probably take Apoc.

Cool.
I thought that I read in the mini series "Cable:The End" that he had cured himself then, but then after the series ended, he was back with his virus in the other comics.

So cable is now much more powerful than he has ever been before.

Yes.

Great. I always like Cable as a character, but his power had always been underused because of his virus, but now he is mega powerful, and can whoop some serious @$$

Yes, he was ORIGINALLY supposed to be as powerful as Thanos.

Er Darth Jello, Magneto could not, Stryfe could not, Cable could not, X-Man could not, Hulk, Phoenix, Surfer, Sienna Blaze, Goblin Queen, Polaris, Cortez, Onslaught, Thor, Doctor Strange, Mephisto, Dormammu could not.

Not as he was ORIGINALLY created. They have indeed dumbed down the character now.

Grab yourself some old X-Factor and AoA storyline comic books.

I've read parts of AOA. Apocalypse didn't seem all that different. He might've conquered half the world however seemed still not as powerful as Thanos. Apocalypse got his butt kicked by Magneto - who lost half his powers taking down the Celestial ship - in that, kicking his ass is something Thor or Surfer can do as well. And Thanos is notches above Magneto, Thor, or Surfer.

Apoc is the most 'cosmic' of earthlings....i thought it was awesome how he sat on the sidelines and talked with Uatu during the Onslought battle...I agree with Never on how most of those characters cant beat him, and yes he is potentially stronger than Thanos, if u read his first appearances, and his history with Kang the conquerer, um before he was really Kang, u would realize just how powerful he potentially could be...its funny though how he has never managed to really beat the x-men or conquered the planet though.... they have made him mortal now too, he needs to change bodies every few thousand years or something...franklin richards would eventually be able to beat him, i think some of the super intelligent earthlings could theorhetically beat him too...when he resurfaces i think they should go back to the old dark, evil, super powerful Apoc....not that candy ass guy who got fused with cyclops, that was the most lame and disappointing comic i ever purchased....i guess its not that big a deal that he hasnt conquered Earth, i mean look at all the heroes, i guess Thanos probably would fail if he tried too.

I actually thought tat the most 'cosmic' of earthlings would either be dr strange or maybe the astral form of the top class telepaths (xavier, jean, rachel, shadow king, etc....)

I agree that he's more powerful than most heroes on Earth. However, thread questions "Why Apocalypse is not the most powerful character??" And he's not because he simply isn't. Though he does have Celestial technology, it doesn't mean he is as intellegent or has all the know of a Celestial. If he did, he would conquer the Earth. He might be invulnerable is he claims: it's do to has shapeshifting ability and some others. His so called power is weaker than that of the Silver Surfer, who can manipulate molecules and such. Surfer can blast him to peaces and spread them throughout the solar system. And because Surfer or Thanos can do this: Apocalypse is not the most powerful character.

Furthermore, Thanos can take over Earth; he just doesn't want to. Why take over Earth when it's not truly a goal of his? His goals were get into Death's pants, gainning more power, seeking challenges, and attainning knowledge. Earth has been conquered by Dr. Doom twice. And Doom gave up his rule because he got bored. If Doom can do it, Thanos can as well.

Thanos has attacked the earth....he was most recently beaten by the combined forces of the Hulk and X-man....just because Doom does something doesnt mean Thanos can....i think they r very different kinds of villains...but still Thanos is very tough

doom is more secretive because although he is crazy, he seems to be more of an introvert, however, Thanos doesnt see the point of being secretive, because he doesn't see anybody else as posing a real serious threat to him.

This is why I said grab yourself some old X-Factor ***AND*** AoA comic books - you will then see how Walt Simonson characterized him as opposed to the AoA writer.

I mentioned both comic books for comparative purposes.

okay, there are only certain comics i read so to me, isn't apoc dead? in x-cutioner's song, stryfe stabbed him with a sword and then archangel stood over his dying helpless body. well, if he isn't dead yet, just get the new group i made up, the assassin's guild, to kick his ass. assassin's guild consists of: arcade, deadpool, bullseye, elektra, silver sable, and sabretooth. they could kic apoc's ass if they worked together.

i still think the whole 'hero beating villains' concept is crap. i mean, villains get beaten by heroes who hav only 1/5th of the villains power level. take for example magneto, despite his supposed overpowered rate, he still has never really defeated the xmen when he was a super villain. then when he becomes the xmen's leader (therefore a hero) he is now able to kill apocalypse. i mean, its just not fair for the villains that they get their ass kicked by lesser beings. i don't think i've ever seen sabertooth win a battle (although i've seen him win matches). ofcourse, comics wouldn't sell if villains won, but they still should make it so that a villain gets beaten by someone on their same level so as not to totally make him look like chicken wuss.

I totally second frothbyte here. the hero villain problem cripples vs threads.


IF a writer did not care about having a compeling story or "the hero must triumph"

Superheros would get their ass's kicked if not killed regulary by the very same villains they face daily. for instance

Maximum Carnage had a enitire TEAM of high end Supervillains.
Carnage and Demogoblin alone should have killed Spiderman and Venom and half of the tag alongs they alied with in a heartbeat. but since this would not be interesting to read it will never happen

assassin, you are right, poccy was killed by cable using the psimittar. he's gone for good. and good riddance too. i'd gotten real sick of old fish lips by 96