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anyone seen the film?

the speech bill makes about superman was interesting - never thought of it like that before.

it was cool as hell, but post crisis continuity makes that argument null and void, cuz he is tlakin about how Clark is the costume, well in Post Crisis - he IS Clark and his disguise is superman... that along with being severely de-strenghtened are a few of the post-crisis alterations to make Superman less god-like and a more relatable humanistic character

The one thing I see as a flaw in Bills speech is the premise that Superman stands alone. There are many heroes who are always their hero self.
Now Spider-man always has powers BUT Bills argument could stand as he wasn't born Spider-man, it was an event and a series of processes that made him Spider-man. But he always has his powers.
Martian man hunter is an alien and he always has his powers, but he came to earth as an adult, he wasn't raised human, nor does he fit in, he looks alien (yes he can alter his features)
X-Men, all them are born mutants, but most do not obtain powers until puberty.
If Bill's whole premise is Superman came to earth as a human looking baby was raised in an earth environment to discover his powers, it may be true. (History is mixed as to did Kal-El immediately show powers even as baby or did they come at puberty. I honestly don't remember Shuster and Seigles take) But if his point is (and the speech seems to imply this) Then is is flawed. Superman is Not the only hero who is a hero in or out of the costume. In fact he has a female counter part in Wonder Woman who could be similar take. Because Kal -El was raised not knowing his alien origin for quite some time. I am sure is I tried to remember back to the eighties when I was an uber comic geek I coudl come up with more to say Bills proposal is flawed. BUT it stil has very valid points

Originally posted by Ewin North
The one thing I see as a flaw in Bills speech is the premise that Superman stands alone. There are many heroes who are always their hero self.
Now Spider-man always has powers BUT Bills argument could stand as he wasn't born Spider-man, it was an event and a series of processes that made him Spider-man. But he always has his powers.
Martian man hunter is an alien and he always has his powers, but he came to earth as an adult, he wasn't raised human, nor does he fit in, he looks alien (yes he can alter his features)
X-Men, all them are born mutants, but most do not obtain powers until puberty.
If Bill's whole premise is Superman came to earth as a human looking baby was raised in an earth environment to discover his powers, it may be true. (History is mixed as to did Kal-El immediately show powers even as baby or did they come at puberty. I honestly don't remember Shuster and Seigles take) But if his point is (and the speech seems to imply this) Then is is flawed. Superman is Not the only hero who is a hero in or out of the costume. In fact he has a female counter part in Wonder Woman who could be similar take. Because Kal -El was raised not knowing his alien origin for quite some time. I am sure is I tried to remember back to the eighties when I was an uber comic geek I coudl come up with more to say Bills proposal is flawed. BUT it stil has very valid points

agreed..!

i don't agree about the x-men point, to be honest. they were born mutants, yes, that's true, but i don't believe Bill is talking about the powers Superman has. He's talking more about how he is really Kal-El. His secret identity isn't Superman, it's Clark Kent. He was born Kal-El. Everything about him when he's Superman is his true self. His self confidence, his wilingness to help people. All that is what he was born and raised with. Clark Kent is his disguise...

scott summers isn't cyclops, he's scott summers. he just happens to have powers.

There was an interesting criticism of this in Jim Smith's book Tarantino. He said Bill was wrong, and expanded it into explaining why Bill's an evil son of a *****. I can't recall too well, but I think his point was that Bill doesn't "get" humans... or something. I'll find the book later and re-read exactly what he said.

Originally posted by Ewin North
The one thing I see as a flaw in Bills speech is the premise that Superman stands alone. There are many heroes who are always their hero self.
Now Spider-man always has powers BUT Bills argument could stand as he wasn't born Spider-man, it was an event and a series of processes that made him Spider-man. But he always has his powers.
Martian man hunter is an alien and he always has his powers, but he came to earth as an adult, he wasn't raised human, nor does he fit in, he looks alien (yes he can alter his features)
X-Men, all them are born mutants, but most do not obtain powers until puberty.
If Bill's whole premise is Superman came to earth as a human looking baby was raised in an earth environment to discover his powers, it may be true. (History is mixed as to did Kal-El immediately show powers even as baby or did they come at puberty. I honestly don't remember Shuster and Seigles take) But if his point is (and the speech seems to imply this) Then is is flawed. Superman is Not the only hero who is a hero in or out of the costume. In fact he has a female counter part in Wonder Woman who could be similar take. Because Kal -El was raised not knowing his alien origin for quite some time. I am sure is I tried to remember back to the eighties when I was an uber comic geek I coudl come up with more to say Bills proposal is flawed. BUT it stil has very valid points

Pete was always destined to become spiderman...was in an amazing spiderman storyline...just though I'd mention

Wasn't that a stunningly lame storyline?

Originally posted by Raoul
i don't agree about the x-men point, to be honest. they were born mutants, yes, that's true, but i don't believe Bill is talking about the powers Superman has. He's talking more about how he is really Kal-El. His secret identity isn't Superman, it's Clark Kent. He was born Kal-El. Everything about him when he's Superman is his true self. His self confidence, his wilingness to help people. All that is what he was born and raised with. Clark Kent is his disguise...

scott summers isn't cyclops, he's scott summers. he just happens to have powers.

Ive never understood why people say Clark Kent is the disguise.. Clark Kent is superman, he was raised as Clark Kent, Johnathan and Martha dont call him superman or kal-el they call him Clark. cause thats who he really is. His more human then he is Alien or why else would he chose to do what he does. He didnt become superman until later, he didnt even know who he was until he was like 18.

Originally posted by SuperkatmanX
Ive never understood why people say Clark Kent is the disguise.. Clark Kent is superman, he was raised as Clark Kent, Johnathan and Martha dont call him superman or kal-el they call him Clark. cause thats who he really is. His more human then he is Alien or why else would he chose to do what he does. He didnt become superman until later, he didnt even know who he was until he was like 18.

he isn't more human than he's alien, though. he was born an alien. several people call him kal. his heritage is that of krypton. he calls earth his adopted home often enough.

lately, he even chose new krypton over earth because he wanted to spend some time with his own kind...

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Wasn't that a stunningly lame storyline?
Trust me there have been worse as of late BND was terrible glare In a recent storyline Pete walked in on Aunt May having the sex, was sooo terrible it was laughable

Having sex with whom???

Originally posted by Raoul
he isn't more human than he's alien, though. he was born an alien. several people call him kal. his heritage is that of krypton. he calls earth his adopted home often enough.

lately, he even chose new krypton over earth because he wanted to spend some time with his own kind...

and what then.? if he doesnt come back to earth (where he belongs).. there'd be no more superman than would there.. of course he chooses earth over anything else cause this is where he belongs, with us humans which makes him more human

Originally posted by SuperkatmanX
and what then.? if he doesnt come back to earth (where he belongs).. there'd be no more superman than would there.. of course he chooses earth over anything else cause this is where he belongs, with us humans which makes him more human

i don't think being superman has anything to do with it. yes, he does see earth as his home and where he belongs, but so many times i've seen him talk about being an outsider, being an alien. if he was more clark than kal, i don't think he'd see it that way...

Originally posted by Raoul
i don't think being superman has anything to do with it. yes, he does see earth as his home and where he belongs, but so many times i've seen him talk about being an outsider, being an alien. if he was more clark than kal, i don't think he'd see it that way...

what youve said is exactly why he is more human.., because only humans think like that. he feels like an outsider, but you know that we all would accept him as one of us. If he really was an intellegent alien, he wouldnt even of thought of something like that he would just know his purpose. its a human feeling to feel like that. He is Clark Kent more than he is Superman, and if you were to tell Johnathan Kent otherwise he'd probably turn in his grave... i believe that the statement is flawed..

Originally posted by SuperkatmanX
what youve said is exactly why he is more human.., because only humans think like that. he feels like an outsider, but you know that we all would accept him as one of us. If he really was an intellegent alien, he wouldnt even of thought of something like that he would just know his purpose. its a human feeling to feel like that. He is Clark Kent more than he is Superman, and if you were to tell Johnathan Kent otherwise he'd probably turn in his grave... i believe that the statement is flawed..

i disagree completely.

his own feelings are reinforced by several people. he knows he's an outsider, it isn't just a feeling. He is a true outsider. He has all these powers that set him apart from others. he has more in common with someone like wonder woman or martian manhunter than he does the average guy on the street, imo...

Bill's speech is totally wrong. Clark Kent is the real person, Superman is the disguise. Clark was raised as a human by his human step parents. It wasn't until puberty that he discovered his super powers and even after discovering his super powers he still have feelings and emotions as any other human being. All that nonsense about Superman despising humanity or looking down on it is pure BS conceived by a villain. People remember who's Bill. He's a cold blooded killer. He wasn't talking about Superman views on humanity but his own.

Originally posted by Raoul
he isn't more human than he's alien, though. he was born an alien. several people call him kal. his heritage is that of krypton. he calls earth his adopted home often enough.

lately, he even chose new krypton over earth because he wanted to spend some time with his own kind... Wow, what a racist.

he can't be racist, he's a minority.

mhmm

too far?

His personality as superman is the real him, as clark he pretends and hides who he is as a person not just his powers.

Exactly what Raoul has been saying, as Superman he's basically acting like himself, he's being Kal-el. As Clark he plays the mild-mannered mid western just to fit in.

He's more than just a human that was raised by Martha and Jonathan, he's also a Kryptonian with a noble alien legacy. It's only when he's Superman (Kal-EL) that he embdies everything he is - as Clark he only shows a fraction of himself, right down to his personality.

Originally posted by Allankles
Exactly what Raoul has been saying, as Superman he's basically acting like himself, he's being Kal-el. As Clark he plays the mild-mannered mid western just to fit in.

He's more than just a human that was raised by Martha and Jonathan, he's also a Kryptonian with a noble alien legacy. It's only when he's Superman (Kal-EL) that he embdies everything he is - as Clark he only shows a fraction of himself, right down to his personality.

If Clark Kent is so the disguise, why is Kal-El flying around in a blue suit and a red cape. why does he need to use the one costume. The statement is cool but it doesnt differentiate him from all other superheros like it was intended to. and im not trying to say Superman is more human physically im saying that his more human emotionally. what if Martha and Johnathan Kent didnt find him, and it was some evil person that did. Would he still be on the good team? i highly doubt it.. He was raised by good people in a good home which gave him the right influences to be a good person. he calls Martha mum who is a human. what does that say...

Originally posted by SuperkatmanX
If Clark Kent is so the disguise, why is Kal-El flying around in a blue suit and a red cape. why does he need to use the one costume. The statement is cool but it doesnt differentiate him from all other superheros like it was intended to. and im not trying to say Superman is more human physically im saying that his more human emotionally. what if Martha and Johnathan Kent didnt find him, and it was some evil person that did. Would he still be on the good team? i highly doubt it.. He was raised by good people in a good home which gave him the right influences to be a good person. he calls Martha mum who is a human. what does that say...
but as clark kent he still hides himself. The only time he is himselfa s clark is when hes with th just the kents and maybe a few others most of the time he is himself as superman. And hes not really emptionally more human seeing as kryptionains have pretty much the same emotions.

Originally posted by SuperkatmanX
If Clark Kent is so the disguise, why is Kal-El flying around in a blue suit and a red cape. why does he need to use the one costume. The statement is cool but it doesnt differentiate him from all other superheros like it was intended to. and im not trying to say Superman is more human physically im saying that his more human emotionally. what if Martha and Johnathan Kent didnt find him, and it was some evil person that did. Would he still be on the good team? i highly doubt it.. He was raised by good people in a good home which gave him the right influences to be a good person. he calls Martha mum who is a human. what does that say...

He wears the costume so that he can be himself without compromising his family and friends (the people who know and raised him especially).

As jalek said, when he's Kal-El he's being himself in the public eye, as Clark he can only be himself in front of his family on top of that his human emotions are no different from those of other Kryptonians.

He is both Clark and Superman.

Originally posted by Kovacs86
Having sex with whom???

Mephisto.