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i dont know well about marvel heroes....but i think is Apocalypse

universe? that's pretty much hard to quantify. a universe is pretty much intangible which therefore makes it impossible to destroy with a punch.

just destroy all the planet or touchable things in the universe.

yeah. to destroy the universe, he would have to be part of the universe, and then he would have to destroy himself in doing it.

Can you please stop making threads about Apocolypse? His power is meager to soooo many in the Marvel Universe. He couldn't destroy a small continent in one punch, nor a major city, or probably even a smaller city for that matter. He's not THAT strong if he's got to develop a virus to destroy other mutants, instead of just killing them himself.

Apocolypse is a joke.

I would have posted the same thing...

Living Tribunal. he/she/it watches over the entire multiverse. he/she/it wouldnt destroy a universe with a punch, just with a thought. Lucifer can do it too.

If lucifer can do it, can God or Michael also do the same???

Yes...

the biblical god, and lucifer exist in the marvel universe?

Molecual man and beyonder, prob. certian Celestials, and I guess that all the big ones, like Death and eternitiy have to have that ability just to qualify for their spot.
Oh and Phoneix can punch it out with flame and be there for the next one.

Maelstrom, not sure if you know this man but the Celestials are a race of intergalactic scientest so refering beings like Death and Eternity as Celestials can be confussing.

And no, Apocalypse can't destroy a universe. Like everyone here has said, Apocalpyse is a loser...an insect in the cosmic hiearchy.

LT or even Eternity can destroy a universe.

I thought that the celestials were the beings who existed before the big bang in the previous universe, and who eventually caused the destruction of that universe.
I thought that the list of celestials was:
Eternity
Infinity
One Above All
In-Betweener
Phoenix
Death
Chaos
Order
Entropy
Epiphany

then eleven my friend...you thought wrong. Those are Cosmic Beings. Celestials are completely different, and some of them are kind of non-combatant, others are like ass-whooper warriors.

I don't think that hardly more than a handful of Cosmic Beings can destroy a universe....especially with a punch.

Death
Choas
Order
Phoenix
and not sure, but probably Epiphany

can't destroy the universe. As it stands Order and Choas balance eachother out, but they themselves don't physically do dirty work. They just keep balance in the universe.

Phoenix? Dark Phoenix? Please....she doesn't even deserve to be mentioned.

In-betweener can't do it either.

Living Tribunal
Eternity
Lucifer
Michael

are the 4 i can think of other than Nate Grey...who can lay the universe to waste.

Not from what I know. The sole survivor of the previous universe's destruction, Galan became Galactus during the big bang and Death and Eternity were formed during this time as well. I tried to post some links on this but got a message about me not trustworthy enough yet.

norse-man.net/.../Char-C/ Celestials-Host.htm
marveldirectory.com/individuals/g/galactus.htm
starnet-database.com/dbase_shield/timeline/Part_I.html
marveldirectory.com/alienraces/celestials.htm

Just copy, paste, and add "www" to these.

I meant the phoenix force that has existed since the big bang. I didnt mean dark phoenix at all.

The previous universe ended due to cosmic scale manipulation by the celestials.

The previous universe ended due to cosmic scale manipulation by the celestials.

Where did you get this from. And look at the sites I've posted earlier, they'll give more info on the matter.

I read it from various sources, but the only one I can find is in Universe X. However, I'm sure I read it elsewhere as well

It sounds like a lot of people here are confused about their cosmic beings....and lets keep the DC guys out of this, they dont operate on the same principles and there is no way to compare characters like Eternity with Lucifer...they dont work the same way...oh and the celestials were not from the previous universe and are not strong enough to destroy a universe, only Galactus....however there is whole level of beings like the Tribunal that are beyond time and space and Galactus and they can wipe out a universe but would not use a 'punch' as the delivery....people like Phoenix and Nate Grey should not be mentioned...really strong for earthlings, but they r not in the same league as Thanos with the Infinity Guantlet or the Beyonder/ Beyonders who can control reality.

When I mentioned pheonix, I did not mean either jean or rachel. I was referring to the pheonix force from where they draw their pheonix power from. The pheonix force has existed since the big bang, and is not necesseraly tied to jean or rachel.

The Question is who can do it and survive and someone who could wouldn't so what remains is for those who can't to determine what will become of themselves.
There is a rumor that Galactus` death fortells the end of Marvel Universe. It is yet to be determined if that is myth or truth. I didn't compare or suggest that Celestials were the same as entities such as Death or Eternity. If you saw my thread on Celestials I said what i think they are.
They are like false prophets. They deliver the races that believe in superstions of science or gods by either destroying them or by ingesting them into their being. They get rid of the problem that won't go away on its own. They must be self sustaining so that when they destroy the Universe; once they have completed their task, they eradicate themselves, getting rid of any mess. The draw and allure to their temporary power source is enough for problem societies to attach themselves to Celestial magnificence.
Those that can't be destroyed, like me for instance, dont' see the Universe as everything or anything to be lost.
So having said that, Celestial power must be sufficiant to destroy a maco-verse of the Universe. It is a question of how they will implode/explode themselves.
Do they want to be at certian locations to make the best show of it?
More than likely they are backed by the power of the Tribunal and the other entities.

uh who would try to punch the universe? do you mean just throwing a punch at the sky? If any body was standing around punching thin air I wouldnt say

"Oh now hes gonna blow up the universe!" Id say

"what a jackass"

Of course if every move you make has the ability to destroy the universe, then when the bell tolls and that guy punching the air has destroyed everything he is capable of destroying, he took all the ass with him. Intent is a powerfull thing. It would be easy to dismiss life as a irrelivant little game where everyone gets to have what they want. Of course with life comes the responsibility for what got you here and where you are headed. No one else is to blame for you if your punching air to destroy a universe. Just make sure you know there are others that won't take the fall with you.

Um, Dark Phoenix already did. You guys just do not realize how powerful Dark Phoenix was, do you? She'd chomp Superman with but a thought. *belch*

Galactus cannot.

Nate Grey cannot.

Molecule Man cannot.

Could Franklin Richards destroy the Universe? I mean He can warp reality so theres a chance right?

Dark Phoenix blew up the Universe? Jesus, I had no idea she/he was that powerful.

Any others who have blew up the Universe that have not been mentioned?

Genis destroyed the universe when he got his cosmic powers and went mad.

jesus can

Opps i got carried away when i added Dark Phoenix to my quote

and i actually meant Franklin Richards NOT Nate Grey.

*goes to comic store to brush up*

In the "What-If" issue - well, don't quote me on that, it might be "Phoenix The Untold Story," cannot recall exactly which - she "came to" after she realized she killed Cyclops. She was in "bloodlust" mode, if you will. After that the fiery Phoenix - her energy signature - grew and consumed Earth (she lashed out), then the surrounding planets, then the galaxy, then the universe.

quite a bit far fetched if you ask me. Especially over a POS like Scott Summers.

I am assuming you are using "far-fetched" in one of two ways - questioning my recollection of the events, or questioning Dark Phoenix's powers.

I am now positive it was "What If Phoenix Lived." I also have "What If Jean Grey Rose Again." On the cover of that one Jean Grey is in green and gold. That is the incorrect issue.

It was the issue in which Dark Phoenix slipped out one evening to "feed." She consumed a sun. She kept saying to herself "no one will ever know." She flew back. Xavier knew what she did all along. At the end after the Phoenix Force consumes the universe, you see The Watcher on the last page observing.

If questioning her powers, do notice I said consumed a sun. Gentlemen, Galactus consumes planets, and needs equipment in order to convert it into the requisite energy type. She consumes SUNS and instantly.

In the issue Xavier essentially said "We cannot allow you to do that again." Dark Phoenix got that glint in her eye and responded by asking "who are you to allow ME to do anything?" She then killed Havoc, Nightcrawler, Colossus, and Wolverine. Xavier engaged her in a test of willpower. You see them both squinting their eyes. It then says Xavier realized Dark Phoenix was merely TOYING with him. You then see Xavier doubling over and falling forward out of his chair. Cyclops then screamed "Jean NO!" and hit her with his HARDEST blast. It only knocked her off-balance. She sent a blast of energy through his chest.

If you are STILL questioning her powers, Xavier is one of the world's foremost telepaths. She TOYED with him. She beat him without even TRYING. Cyclops hit her with his HARDEST concussive beam. It merely made her lean a little to the side.

"Dark Phoenix (and of course, Phoenix) had extreme telepathic, telekinetic, and pyrokinetic powers. In addition, she also exhibited the following abilites at various times: altering the molecular structure of items, not needing to breathe, and in general whatever else she wanted."

Pay special attention to this part: "and in general whatever else she wanted."

Other quotes.

"The Phoenix is the most powerful force ever to be held in mortal hands at ANY comics company."

"Dark Phoenix tears through star systems and galaxies in the blink of an eye."

NOBODY drew her better than John Byrne and Paul Smith did. Honorable mention to John Romita Jr.

http://www.marvelfan.de/html/specials/jpeg/darkphoenix/t2_b1.jpg

LoL, better ask somebody! Remember Rachel beat Galactus with The Phoenix Force. Dark Phoenix was FAR nastier.

hey Never, can i quote you on that?

i didnt know you spoke spanish. soy puertoriqueno. (i cant find the alt+ combination for the n) oh, by the way, thanks. this really helps me out in another thread.

any of the boys that Dr. Strange hangs out with could destroy the entire cosmos by blinking, two beings from in between or outside of marvel that could probably do the same are access and the spectre, both of whom apparently have a working relationship with the living tribunal

dark phoenix was a beautiful character

Found the issue. It is "What If Phoenix Had Not Died," Issue #27.

Arachnoid, Dark Phoenix (and Jean Grey actually) could manipulate molecular matter. On page 17 she created a spacesuit for Kitty Pryde out of nothing when she burst out of her spaceship.

"Phoenix gestures...and a protective spacesuit encases the child!"

She consumed the sun I referenced on page 31.

"Surely no one will mind if I consume a very small star, with no inhabited planets. Who'll miss it? Who'll ever know?" -- she did not know that the star was a sun and had inhabited planets orbiting it.

Page 32 she kills Kitty Pryde (forgot about that one). Page 33 Professor X says "I...could destroy your entire mind....and rob you of intelligence...forever!" Dark Phoenix responds, "You could try."

Page 34 -- "Too late, Charles Xavier realizes that she is only toying with him." She turned him into a vegetable actually. Slams Angel into a wall and kills him on page 35; buries Storm alive on page 35; drops a building on Iceman on page 35; "Enjoy your taste of hellfire!" -- Nightcrawler, page 35; reverses Colossus and Wolverine's fastball special and kills Colossus, page 37; drags Wolverine into Nightcrawler's pyre, page 37; kills Polaris, page 37; Havoc THEN hit her with all of his power, staggering her - she sent the blast through HIS chest, not Scott's: page 38; Cyclops THEN hit her full blast also but she did not even budge, just returned a blast and killed him. She then realized she killed Scott, and...

"In Jean Grey's moment of anguish, the Phoenix Power engulfs her, and continues to spread and grow until it engulfs the entire city...and the earth itself. And still it does not stop, but continues to grow...expanding ever outward, across the universe...destroying everything in its path." -- page 39.

LoL, this was the issue Wolverine8888 was talking about when he said "it never happened like that."

thanks for the info. i just bought that issue today. What if Phoenix had not died? and i also got What if Phoenix Rose again.

Okay this is a really old thread...and sorry for dredging it up out of the past, but this is what lead me to this forum.

Just wanted to comment that I don't put much stock into "What-ifs". I know the Phoenix draws a lot of fanboyism, but anyone with a modicum of knowledge about the MU knows that the Living Tribunal would never allow her to destroy an entire universe.

If what happened in that "What-if" were to ever occur, LT would surely interfere. He would probably cage the Phoenix like a canary and bitchslap her to destruction.

Either Doomsday or Baron Zemo