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Okay since there was a thread made just to discuss how bad the 3rd and 4th films were and a threadf was closed talking about how bad all the batman movies sucked-and they really did.I decided to create THIS thread so people can discuss why the first two films sucked also.Just like that poster TMWATA said,all the batman movies sucked,and yes including the first one,those first two films were just a piece of crap garbage. I dont have the same complaints about those two piece of crap garbage Burton films as TMWATA did that they messed with one of the best characters,James Gordon by making him a fat,clumsy character.

My beef and many batman fans I have spoken to over the years have had the same beef as well was mainly because of two things-1.Michael Keaton was about the worst casting choice in comicbook history for a comicbook character.I mean pudgy gut,receding hairline,half bald,short runt Michael Keaton for tall,muscular,handsome,full set of hair Bruce Wayne? what a total joke!!!! thats something you would expect to see on something like SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE as a joke. no2-Batman killing people especially the joker his arch enemy,that totally betrayed the batman mythos making him into a cowardly killer like they did.The way he killed people was in cowardly fashion.Now if he had had no choice,that would have been different,but he did it in cowardly fashion when his life was not in danger,and that goes against everything batman is.He should have been wanted for murder at the end for the joker and his goons death instead of being treated a like a god damn hero.

Then there was Alfred betraying his trust in him by letting in Vickie vale through the secret batcave against bruce waynes wishes,something alfred would NEVER do.

robin wasnt in it.a batman movie without robin is like Abbot without Costello or Starskey without Hutch.

The first movie should have been called THE JOKER because thats who the film was all about,bats was just a supporting character,thats nuts.same with the 2 film.

Bruce wayne is a martial arts expert trained in all forms of combat,yet he could not handle one guy with no special fighting skills when he fought the jokers goon at the end of the movie.what a total wuss.

then when he was trying to shoot and kill the joker at the end in his batplane,somehow he inexplicably missed him even though the batplane locked in on him,what a pice of crap junk that batplane is.

the first hour and a half was incredibly boring,practically the whole time they just stood around talking the whole damn time with hardly any action scenes,thats nuts,this is a batman movie for crying out loud,you would think there would be more action in it for a batman movie for crying out loud.

I am sure I have many more critisizems of it but thats enough for now,seriously,this movie and the 2nd one had no purpose with no plot whatsoever in them.all for now.

Yes, I totally agree with you on Keaton.I hate that guy and never had evr heard of him before I saw teh batman film.He is ugly and bald and old and those eyebrows look like they have been plucked!Not I don't have a problem with his looks.I have a problem with those looks of his on my screen donning the bat costume!
The other thing I dispised about the film was the girl.The dumb,idiotic, goodfornothing woman that was suppsed to be Bats girl wanted me to puke !WHAT THE HEL IS SHE DOING IN THE BATCAVE!!!!!!!and the batman I know has definately got more taste than a dumb bimbo with blonde hair flying all over the screen...

Now that I think about it, I kinda Agree with you. Joker was the main character, just look on the movie poster it says Nicholson then Keation.

You only mentioned the 1st movie..the 2nd one has flaws too, he riped off his mask in the end to reveal himself to Walken's character..Batman would never do that..Plus that whole movie is more about the penguin and catwoman than it is about bruce wayne.
I just hope the new movie starts all over again to make us forget about the old 4, plus whats whith having all the villians in the batman movies being top hollywood stars??

michael keaton portrayed the original version of batman, a dark and conflicted character . Where it showed the reason of why he became Batman.

For Justice and vengence.

I liked 1, even though it was not very faithful to the comics.

At least the new Batman looks like the Batman movie that true fans wanted all along (fingers crossed)

indeed i hope they make it has dark as the first one.

I hope they dont put stupid silly jokes in it.

yeah that is one reason why I hate Burtons films even worse than Schumachers because at least in Batman Forever,the story was mostly about batman and villians werent the main focus.I hate BATMAN RETURNS even more so,that one was even worse.just like the first one should have been called THE JOKER,the 2nd one should have been called CATWOMAN AND PENGUIN.I just didnt mention too much about Returns because people can sometimes admit THAT burton batman film was bad,but they refuse and just cant see how god awful how even the first one was really bad.I sure hope BATMAN BEGINS is a great flim.Just one great batman film would erase all the god awful batman movies that were made in the past.Thankfully They seem to be pushing all the right buttons on this film like Christian Bale unlike Keaton is a perfect choice for the role because he physically fits the part,the only thing that worrys me is I hope that shot of the batmobile is not the final look for what it will be in the film,that will suck if it is.Thats was one of the few things they did right in the first two films was the batmobile was kick ass cool looking.

Speaking of Returns, what the hell were they thinking when they scripted Catwoman's origins?

Yeah Penguins was even more of a travesty.At Least Catwoman wasnt a retarded freak like Penguin

The first two were both better than Batman and Robin!

I've routinely had dental appointments that were better than Batman & Robin, so that's not saying much.

Batman and Robin dragged so...

Batman and Robin was an all time low for any comic book superhero. Man, everything about that movie was wrong.

I even rememeber the bit where Mr Freeze freezes all of Gotham with Dr. Evils "laser beam" (which is a lame idea in itself), and the ice was PLASTIC! You saw cars crashing that were iced up, and the ice was bending like it was made by primary school kids!

Lets not forget that Bathammer, and the BATHOVERCRAFT!!!, and the convenient costume changes at the end FOR NO REASON AT ALL.

I was half-expecting Mr.Freeze to make a big ice monster the size of Godzilla, and then Batman, Robin and Batgirl combine their Bat-vehicles into a huge robot and fight it. Heck even Mr.Freeze looked like Lord Zedd from the power rangers.

Go Go Mighty Morphin Batman!

not to mention George clooney shaking his head...he's so fine though.when he is not pretending to be batman!loved him in one fine day

I agree the first film was better than BATMAN AND ROBIN but like Gregory said,I have had dental visits that were better than BATMAN AND ROBIN so thats not saying much.By the way,BATMAN RETURNS was just as god awful as BATMAN AND ROBIN was.

All the Batman films sucked. Batman deserves better. You could really write a very long list about all the things who didn't make sense or who were just totally wrong. And indeed, the first movie was about the Joker, not about Batman.

New Batman movie: it looks quite promising, but let's not get overexcited. Matrix Reloaded also looked awesome in the trailer, but sucked big time (just my opinion). I really hope they show a moody, dark Batman who scares the living sh*t out of the bad guys, and not an overmuscled karate-guy with useless gadgets.

Anybody read Dark Knight Returns (Miller) ? Killing Joke (Alan Moore) ? Batman Year One ? That's the real Batman (according to me), the human Batman. If they could somehow transform these wonderful comics into a movie(s), that would be great.

But I think that I'm asking too much.

WTF????Number 1 and 2 were great the rest sucked.

Batman rocked. Batman Returns was a darker protray of the Dark Knight and pitted him up against 2 of his most nefarious arch nemesis'. Batman Forever gave way to 2 more nemesis', kept the Batman characters serious and dark, but cast the villians with too much humor and not enough sinisterism. Batman Returns had a good idea with Mr. Freeze, but it was ruined with the casting of Arnold Scharzenegger. Mr. Freeze cam across more of a body builder then a scientist, which of course he is.

I perfer the 1989 Batman.

Though, if Christian Bale pulls it off in the 5th instalment, my perspective might change. Who knows?

they were great movies, just not batman. its because tim burton thinks reading comic books is beneath him (watch an evening with kevin smith for more on that). what pissed me off most is that they turned the penguin into a ripoff of the owl from daredevil. interestingly enough, even though mask of the phantasm is the greatest batman movie ever, phantasm is another blatant DD ripoff-mr. fear.

I quite enjoyed Burton's rendition of Penguin. The Dark Knight vs the Bird Man of Gotham. Dark & sinister to the end. Well, except for the army of remote controlled penguins. Now that was rediculous!

Nope.once again,They ALL sucked.

The thing is that the Penguin really isn't a dark and sinister character. He's a crooked businessman, really. It feels as though they chose a villian and then, when they realized he didn't fit the tone of the movie, they completely changed the villian around until he did.

quote:
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Originally posted by <<Solo>>
WTF????Number 1 and 2 were great the rest sucked.
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i agree

i disagree with Mr Parker

i thaught the first two were great

yep the first two batman movies really sucked,even worse than BATMAN FOREVER did.

What's there to argue about ? Every Batman movie sucks. He deserves better, but the fact remains, they are all rubbish.

And Tim Burton is not bad, but a bit overrated in my opinion.

Stand up as a Batman fan and tell me how you feel about-

Commissioner Gordon being relegated to the role of a bumbling fat gasbag.

The character of proud incorruptible cop Detective Bullock being used and changed to cowardly corrupt sell-out cop Eckhart.

The Joker "dancing" around to a Prince song in an art Museum for the sake of a movie soundtrack tie-in lesson in merchandising that Schumacher would have been proud of.

The near anonymous feral-slim Joker having an origin story as a short fat thug named Jack Napier and being the man responsible for the killing of the Elder Wayne's - pissing on 50 years of Batman mythos and whistling a happy tune while the steam rises.

Batman, a hero with a pathological aversion to guns and killing strafes the streets of gotham with machinegun fire during the Jokers parade. He also remotely drops a bomb in the chemical plant, indiscriminately killing who knows how many people.

The only batman film that wasn't offensive to the comic book batman was B&R, because it wasn't pretending to BE the Dark Knight, it was out to have fun.

And guess what? Doesn't matter - Batman and Batman Returns were still great movies. They gang-****ed Catwomans origin in B returns and it still kicked mighty ass.

We are never going to get movie versions of comic heros that are %100 faithfull to the comic because the comics themselves screw about with 30-40-50 years of continuity as-and-when they like. Most of those stories are dumb, some stink BAD and are best forgotten - if you want to be TRUE to the comics a batman origin movie would have to be set in the 1940's and Spider-man in the 1960's: is that what you want? Is it? IS IT FANBOYS??? No. I didn't think so, so shut your yaps.

What we will get if we are lucky is a watchable movie that treats the subject JUST seriously enough. If you are such a manic fanboy that the very IDEA organic webbing or a batmobile with BIG wheels ruins your life, stay out of the theatre. The rest of us can relax eat the popcorn and give thanks that we are finaly getting a reasonable quality superhero product.

actually BATMAN 89 AND BATMAN RETURNS were piece of crap garbage movies.

I've read the first Batman comic (in an Archive edition), and I've read the most recent, and Batman's origin hasn't changed. It's been retold, sure, but it's exactly the same now as it was back then. I don't know what the you think you're getting at, but it is perfectly obvious that the story can be modernized without being utterly screwed up, since the only time-specific parts of Batman's origins are the movie they went to and the make of the gun that was used. You make an inane statement, scream at us, call us manic fanboys for wanting a faithful adaption, and act condescending--I hope you're not trying to pass yourself off as the voice of reason here, because that's sure not how you're coming off.

Personally,I feel that the origin of Batman, plays a VERY important role in establishing the character.As far as i'm concerbed, Batman is all about his origin.If that is screwed, Batman is screwed.

Horsepoop.

In 1939 an unamed mugger shoots both Martha and Jonathan Wayne and wee bruce promises to avenge them by spending his life fighting all criminals - with (for several issues) a GUN.

In 1948 we are told that a mugger named Joe Chill shoots Jonathan Wayne and Martha promptly dies of a heart attack. Young Bruce vows to avenge them by training so he can bring his parents killer to justice.. AND fight all criminals - as an afterthought.

You can say those are more or less the same if you like, but my point is that not even the comics can agree on what is "cannon" Batman and whiney fanboy bleating about the "facts" being changed is pointless.

True to the spirit of the character is the best we can hope for.

There you go with the "fanboy" thing again. And this time, "whiney" as well. But I never said that the Batman story was never changed, did I? I said it's the same now as it is then, which is true: the Joe Chill thing was given up as a bad experiment as retconned out durring the Crisis On Infinite Earths. I know that Batman killed people originally; that, too, was retconned out, and is irrelivent to the origin of Batman, which was the matter under discussion.

I quite agree that the movie should be true to the spirit of the character; it's a pitty that instead of doing that, they made him a killer, dispite the fact that his refusal to kill criminals is, in fact, a major part of his character. The fact is, that you're right: comic book characters do change with time, and some minor variation is to be expected. Did Bruce Wayne's father lost his temper and hit Bruce the day before he and Martha were shot? It's shown in one issue of Batman, and never alluded to ever again, so maybe, maybe not. I don't care about stuff like that; it's relatively minor. Having Batman kill people, by contrast, is not relatively minor, nor are some of the other changes they made.

I mean they really DO suck.Batman Forever was the only Batman movie fairly good.the rest were all dog doo.

great argument...

oh wait... no its not...

Come on the First two movies were cool!! They set the bench mark for the wave of comicbookk films today, plus it showed that you can make a comic book film dark how Batman is surppost to be!

I think that all the batman movies sucked.

ok ok ok ok ok Batman Sucks, it relly does, Who in there right mind would think Arnie was a great Mr Freeze???

Or that Clooney would be a perfect Batman, or Sliverstone would be a good blonded Batgirl who does not even share the family name of Gordan.

Wait Wrong Batman movie sorry.

The cool one was 1989, With Keaton and Nickson, Great lines, great acting and the He stole my Balloons line.

That was a classic.

who brought this back cry

use the other thread to talk about this.

or do you feel the need to have a "Batman ______ Sucks" thread for every movie?

If that's the case, go create a forum and name it "Marvel Movies Suck" ..... and don't invite me to it.