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As some of you know I believe that nothing in life can ever be certain. It is not that because something has always been like that in the past it will remain like that in the future. This does lead for some weird things, as Modern day science it's laws are all build on things that have always been the same and will always be the same. This way of thinking doesn't mix well with the general way of thinking in the 20th and 21th century.

This however also poses problems for things like Loving Someone forever. However I do consider that special since it's an emotion and ergo is impossible to prodict (DONT WORRIE STORM IF THERE IS ONE THING IN MY LIFE I'M CERTAIN OF IT'S THAT WE IS MENT TO BE :happy

So does anyone agree with me that nothing can ever be certain and that ergo modern day science is wrong.

heres how it is...shit happens, thats it.

Well I agree that nothing is ever certain to a point, but emotions and physics are two completely different things and so the circumstances are different.

The only thing that's certain in life is that you will die.

and that beer is good

no, mainly cause you are belgian

still BF if they find away to become immortal tomorrow, that statement is false as well, I know ppl will always look at this way of thinking as going for the impossible against all odds but it aint because there is only a 1 in 28000 billion that it wont happen

Certinty is a lie. The natrual order of the universe is Chaos. so no matter how impossible something seems it can still happen.

ummm....i'm not sure i understand...there are some things certain, and others not.....it all deppends on how they might be influenceable by certain factors. in the end some are certain....and others...you wait and see.
be more speciffic ....i'd like to argument over this...

sure dexx, give an example of something that is certain, cause certains means that it will never ever change, which is impossible to prove

oh djee Fire, you bastad, you know that last time I upsetted Storm with this

*tries to cotain self not to ruin Storm's happy mood*

I will participate in this thread as soon as I' m out off my playful mood. But I have no idea how long that will take

in the meantime, I'll subscribe to one "Bully Storm with this"

hehe

Certainty, I think, is a concept developed by those people who dont have the confidence, or maybe need the reassurance, that some things will not change. A constant by which they can live their lives.
Someone like me who takes everything as it comes thrives on the fact nothing is certain. It's half the reason I get out of bed each day!

I agree with the confidence and reassurance part baylin

Even loving someone isnt a constant certain thing. By that I mean its not a constant thing thats stays the same for example

I love my wife lots, well at least most days anyway! But sometimes, as women are prone to being , she can be real pain in the ass and I'll dislike her immensely even to the point where I'd like to leave.
It's recognising the changes and then deciding what to do about it that's important. I like my life/wife so leaving would be really dumb so I ride with it and wait till she stops being a pain in the ass and "BING" I like her again.
Changes are important it's what helps us to grow and I dont think you can really enjoy what life has to offer if you dont grow, so clinging on to certainties is in my opinion like a waste of life.



Woo that was deep for me!




Did that make sense?

yea but it aint because she's a pain that you dont love her anymore

It isnt?


Damn I was really certain it was!

thats why uncertainty's so good

I like the reassurance part, I agree with that a lot.

This is hard to reply because in reality we don't know what will happen to us in the future. So we don't know if some of the things we plan to achieve will be posible. All I can think right now is that we must fulfill our destiny (whatever it might be) so that when we die there won't be any regrets.

I dont believe things are certain. Nothing in life is certain, because everything has an exception.

gravity? that's pretty certain...by definition.

The only thing that is for certain is that nothing is ever certain

oh..i dunno..lots of small thigns...like..it is certain that i'm 17 years of age.
i could say that it is certain that the sun will rise tomorrow......that's acertainty for me.....and i'ma sking you if you're saying that there's a possibility for it to not rise. in that case.....your theory on anything not being certain is you accepting EVERY single theoretical and practical possibility. (ex: like it turning into a supernova tonight..and so on)

Modern science is wrong if nothing is ever truly certain???

Decent scientists would be insulted. This isn't the Victorian Age any more, you know. Uncertainty is one of the base principles of science now.

However, I find philosophical scepticism very tiresome.

Have you never heard of the uncertainty principle?
Modern physics is all about uncertainty and probability, rather than classical newtonian physics.

Well, to quote Omega, "If you wait long enough the improbable will happen, if you wait forever the impossible will happen." However, we theoretically can't wait forever to find a way to become immortal since for the moment we're not... I'm not making sense am I

than they should change they way they put things now a days

and indeed scepticism is very tiresome

classic newtonian physics is still tought at ppl all over the world tho

well, they teach the foundations of physics with newtonian physics, but if you go into modern and theoretical physics, the newtonian laws of physics dont work, and in modern physics, nothing is certain. There are degrees of certainty and confidence.

true but even those basic laws of physics which as you said is newtonian physics is wrong, they should teach ppl that

Well I guess we've just discovered a certainty - people will always be mis-informed!

maybe Baylin, maybe tomorrow someone invents the way to get all knowledge in a second and then we won't be


But I suggest we drop the science stuff, I shouldn't have written modern day sciences, everyone happy now?

y...no... I still want to annoy Storm about this

lol not atm mate not atm

*sits down and patiently waits turns*

It doesn't matter if they find a way to stop death by natural cuases. The earth will still be incinerated by the sun in a few billion years and all those Immortal people will die anyways.

Death is inevitable, no matter what is done. Everyone is going to die someday.

noone said we would stay on the earth, well BF still that is highly likely but not absolutely certain

Well even if we leave earth, we will eventually run out of planets to flee too and the sun will eventually explode destroying everything in our solar system.

It is indeed certain that every human will die someday.

I think the self destructive side of human nature is far stronger than the strive for eternal life side is

well BF what if one immortal person gets sent of to another dimension in which time does not exist, and he just floats around in the big white void?

WAIT A second.

You say that NOTHING is certain? So are you saying that facts, the basis for all education in the world (except maybe some of that crazy math and science) doesn't exist? Is my name not what I think it is? Do facts legitamitely exist?

well, are you a real person to start with?

I think, therefore I am

no, you doubt there for you are

and I object that statement

Shut it you know what i mean

descartes was on to something with that theory tho

oh wait, I promised storm I wouldn't start yet

Well when that happens I'll give you a dollar for being right. Untill then, I am certain that every human being on earth right now will die.

were you raised by skinflint dutchies BF?

Bah. I bet 1 zilion of euros against 1 euro that I will not die

Perspective is reality. That is certain.

can you be certain that certainty doesn't exist, or w/e?

I gotta a hard time buying some of what y'all are saying.

well Spear I know one thing everything that is today can change by tomorrow

And...Since I saw a pig driving a bike I believe in everything ..or in nothing

Well, only certain thing in life is that "time is the fire in which we all burn" meaning, death is certain.

as I told backfire even that is not certain

but rather unlikely to get fixed by the end of the day and yes, I can't be sure of that either fire

hehe go yerss

where to now?

I disagree, biological death is certain. Now, weather you believe in some kind of religion suggesting that there is life after 'death', that's another thing, which we can't discuss here.

well let's give you what I give BF

what if one immortal person gets sent of to another dimension in which time does not exist, and he just floats around in the big white void?

now if you're answer is going to be immortal is impossible that is also not certain because you can NOT prodict the future

If time does not exist, this man would have no heart-beat, no pulse, and no brain activity. But every standard I can think of, he would be dead.

Well then that depends on your personal beliefs. I'm pretty sure immortality doesn't exist, but yeah, I know, I can't be sure.

So, I'll just point out what I said: biological death IS certain, simply because your heart stops functioning... no-one can deny that. What happens AFTER that... that's something I won't bother saying what I think about

And whoever said that there are no certainties in the world never studied mathematics. There are a lot of certainties there. For instance: No matter what prime number you name, it will be possible to name a higher prime number.

you've never been in that void so you don't know

good one, didnt think of that one myself

but I've never found the end, maybe there is none but maybe there is

numbers are endless

It is certain that I will have another beer in the next half an hour!

until proven otherwise evy

Yes, I do. If something moves, it must have a defined speed, which must be a real number. It has to, because since speed is defined as s=d/t, we can define distance as d=st, and if speed is 0, no distance has been traversed (d=0). Since distance and time must be real numbers, speed is also real.

Let's define the distance your chest moves when you breath x. Speed, as has already been stated, is defined as (distance moves)/(amount of time taken to move). Since no time is passing (time can't pass, since there isn't any), the denomonater is 0. Since x/0 is not a real number, there is no speed and hence no movement and hence no breathe.

Through this same process, it can be demonstrated that there is no heart-beat or brain activity.

oh nonono, that CANNOT be proven otherwise, fire
you have 1, 2, 3, 4, .... and if you continue putting numbers in line, you'll never ever stop... it's certain

it is not because those laws apply here that they will apply in another dimension gregory

well put
x/0 points to infinity which is a 'number' that cannot exist

Wrong; it was proven that there is no last prime long before the birth of Christ (Euclid did it, if you want to look it up).

well evy I know it sounds highly unlikely but you never know someone might find the end

Gregory I really dont think you are getting my point but I am too tired to explain it over and over so I'll leave it at that

Sorry, but it's already been demonstrated that humans could not live in a dimension with substantially different physical laws; this is the weak anthropic principle.

and again tomorrow that theory could be proven wrong

but I'm sure there's no end

Witness! The incredible dullness of conversations about philosophical scepticism...

hehe go ush

Even worse, ones when people really don't know what is being talkesd about...

Or pehaps not, because if you DO know what is being talked about, the conversation dead ends, and I tend to fall into a coma...

I know I agreed to disagree, but even forgetting the overall point of the thread, I feel compelled to disagree with this specific statement. Speaking as someone who is studying mathematics, it simply doesn't make sense. You can always add 1 to a number and get another number. The reason for this is that numbers do not have an objective existance; they are a human construct, and must obey the mathematical laws we set down. For a number to disobey our understanding of mathematics would imply that numbers exist outside of mathematics; they do not.

And so, having said his piece, he disappears into the night.

maybe, but if you look at numbers like that than they are only an illusiona and are not real

Not an illusion exactly; they are a valid way to interpret reality, but, being a way to interpret reality, they are meaningless without an interpreter.

true, therefor to someone who doesn't understand our system they meaning nothing

Much as I hate to encourage this...

No matter what logical point you put forwards Gregory, Fire's point stands. You could be mistaken and not not realise it. The basis of the sceptical hypothesis is that there is virtually nothing that a person can be totally certain is so.

oooh Ush agrees wiv me

anywayz ush if you dont like this debate you don't have to read it

I think me and greg are both enjoying ourselves, altho it's kinda tiring

how can we know for sure it's tiring you fire?

I agree with that, it's very true.

I don't yerss but that's the way it feels ATM

what if ppl become immortal tomorrow Mike?

what makes you think you were feeling it right, Fire?

nothing, I never said I was certain about feeling ti right :P

than why did you state it as a fact?

just a force of habbit

bad habbit I say

like you never do it

I'm the center of the universe I don't need that all

yea that's what you wish

you got that right girlfriend *snap snap*

*smacks yerss*

*austin powers voice*
yeah baby, yeah

you like it don't ya

*best dexter voice*
it depends

Well, honey, you know what my reply on that one would be.

And I smell a contradiction from your side

uhoh storm, ... I forsee a bad future for you

well as certain as I can be which aint totaly certain but pretty certain, and I can believe or think it to be certain without it actualy being certain
:P

Are you certain about that? hug

I think you'll get a little speech tonight storm... I'll be here with tissues and a big chest to cry on

as Certain as I can be
and Storm won't be getting a speech tonight you ****

we'll see...

*runs off to storm*
stooooooorm, he's mean to me

I am certain that if I would reply, this thread would go/is going off topic.

hehe maybe you dunno until you try

are you certain about that?

nah not really but I think it is

you don't think, the army thinks for you

I'm not a soldier

nothing is really certain

/\are you certain about that?

In other words ... it is certain that any point I raise may be wrong?

yes it may be wrong, it may be right either

But it can't be a certainty that there are no certainties, because if it is, there is one. There has to at least be one certainty, even if it is only that there are no others.

No, it's not certain, he just doesn't know. The point is, he can doubt the accuracy of your information. There is only one thing you can try and doubt, and fail to find reasonable ground for that.

idd as ush said I do not know wether or not there is something or nothing certain, I am wondering about it

Okay, here's a certainty for you: Either there are certainties, or there are not.

Assuming causal logic is correct. That can be doubted.

There's no point trying to hammer this down, Gregory.

Okay, I can do this: Either there are certainties, there are no certainties, or casual logic is incorrect.

This sort of thing makes me think; that's enough of a point for me.

That is still looking at it from a point of view of causal logic. It is an entirely pointless line to take, because this philosophy is too boring to be argued with. There may be a billion other options your perception is being affected so you cannot comprehend.

Like I say, there is only one thing, in sceptic philosophy, that the thinker can be certain of, and that is his own existence, because even in doubting it the thinker has to concede that he must exist to be able to doubt it.

I'm not certain about this thread

no

yeah, just like that whole, if a tree falls in a forest and no one is there to hear it, did it make a sound? certain things only our brain can process as happenings...so since our eyes only have certain pigments in them that can absorb colors wavelenghts, it's possible that there are many more colors that we cannot see because of our limited brain space and what and what not it can detect.

Yes. Sound waves, anyway.

how do you know?

If you espouse the philosophy being discussed here, I don't--but by that philosophy, you don't know that there's a sound even if someone is present, since it could just be a halucination. It might be more proper to say that I am convinced, too my satisfaction that there is no link between the creation of soundwaves and the prescence of an observer.

i skipped the other 6 pgs...
to answer the very first question:
NO. We are not meant to be happy.
WE are meant to suffer and learn from our suffering
Ultimately nothing is ever certain.
What works one day DOES NOT always work the next.
Everything that you thought was good can turn around on you and bite your face off.
That is what I am CERTAIN of.
NOTHING can be a sure thing.
NOTHING can be trusted.
THERE is NO such thing as a sure thing.
Everything that is hoped for and dreamed for is a waste.
I dont believe in fate
I dont even know if i believe in God.
THE UNIVERSE IS RULED BY CHAOS
and nothing can change that.

happiness? talk about that to someone who believes in dreams.
There is no such thing as happiness.

how do you knowall that ?

he thinks he knows

or so you think

idd

how do i know? because life is cruel n full of crap that nobody understands.

that's what you think you know about it

I've seen this stated eralier in the thread...mathematics is among the few certainties in our lives, simply because WE invented it...it's totally abstract because it's not based on the world around us, it doesn't need it to prove that it's true..

There are many certainties in this world, but no matter how certain u are, most things are only 99% certain at most... that's because there will ALWAYS be the statistical probability that the 'other' thing could happen...

As for stuff like "I'm ceratain I'm 17", that is again something totally abstract, invented and used only by humans, and thus cannot be wrong..

Uncertainty exists in the universe around us, EVERYWHERE.

The only things that are 100% certain in this world are abstract things or things that we envision in our minds (and even those sometimes tend to be decieving).

By this philosophy even things like mathematics are not certainties, Rusky. What you see as undeniable mathematical rules may still simply be errors of your perception.

thank you ush

How can they be errors of my perception, when they are not based on perception... can u deny that 1+1 = 2 ? Is it ever uncertain to you that 1+1 = 2 ? there is no 0.00001% chance that it is wrong, because it's like me saying "I'm thinking of a green cow"... can u deny that ?

I'm saying the only things that can be uncertain are things that have not been thought up by humans....

I don't think he meant your perception in particular, but in humanities all together.