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Will certain concepts in general, ones that do not depend on the physical world to exist, continue to exist forever? Will they continue to exist with the absence of the physical world or not?
Could it not be thought up in the imagination, thus existing within the conceptual mind? Or does existence purely rely on the relationship between the physical and mental worlds?

The basis of the question is an assumption that an idea can exist. So then what are the characteristics of existence?

I guess some ideas are immortal, that is if you mean within the particular species of the person/thing that had that idea. However, when that species dies then so does that idea, or most likely.

Even after every mind on earth was silenced, there would still be evidence left behind. But then this makes the assumption that the existence of a concept is contingent on someone to be aware of it.

Well, some ideas will probably blindly repeat themselves even to other species that may inhabit this planet in the future or another planet.

like ... gain worldpower, I think that one is the best example of an immortal idea... lots of people in the past had the idea (and tried to get it true), lots of people have the idea and lots of people will have the idea

and as BF says... other planets...
I can guess that there will be aliens there that want it too

ideas exist as long as there is creatures that can think about them

I don't think so. I don't think an idea is an independent unit. It's the product of someone's mind, someone who's been moved and inspired by the surroundings (even lack of these, but even a lack indicates that something has existed/exists elsewhere).
Some ideas, like Yerssot's power-idea, might simply come down to genes, survival of the fittest and such.
It's been proven that some fairy tales are the same no matter what country we're in, that some tales are known by everybody, but I do think it has more to do with our physics, genes and drives, than actual immortal, independent ideas.

If the physical world ceases to exist, so will any ideas that were brought about by it. Imagination is a thing created by life, and so needs life to prolong its existence.

All ideas are immortal ... all that you have thought have has been done... or will be done ... unless it has to do with new technology... ever heard of history repeating itself... its not history... its ideals.

Yeah, absolutely agree with Omega.

There needs to be someone to think the idea, it cant just exist...by itself.

They're immortal as the person who thought of them.

yup..the two are linked...u can't have ideas last forever without someone/something to "store" that idea "in"... if all physical evidence whatsoever of human presence on earth were to be wiped out, and another race come to inhabit this place, they would have no way of knowing our ideas...they wouldn't even know we existed...

Doesn't that concept link in somehow with the idea that when a tree is felled in a forest it only makes a sound if there is someone to hear it?

No. The idea that if the tree falls in the forest and there is no one there to hear it, does it make a sound, of course it does. Sound has properties, its created by waves reguardless of whethere there is someone there to hear it or not.

Ideas, someone has to think of for them to exist. Ideas, have no physical properties of any kind.

Yeah, I know that Milla, my answer would have been the same as yours, but I was just trying to say that if there has to be someone to think the idea in order for it to exist, surely there would have to be someone to hear the sound, for it to exist. I'm just trying to look at it from another perspective, and surely ideas have properties also?

Ideas are a mental concept, not physical. But, of course, sound is a physical concept, not mental.

Exactly. Thats why if a tree does fall in a forest, and here is no one there, it will make a sound, but if someone with the idea dies, the idea will die with them.

OK, make me feel dumb, cheers

I get that, I was just trying to introduce another perspective

Characteristics of existence?. Round and round we go. Where to begin...that's a big one. (I just throw ideas out when I write and go with it ) First define existence. What level would you like the answer on?. All, why not . Cool, first stage of existence as a spark in the circular mind of what is, for a description, one of an infinite number. That spark is inserted into the spiral of physical existence. Physical existence is a spiral and is represented within the base structures of physical reality, As the microcosm reflects the macrocosm so too the spiral nature is reflected within the life of a physical being. Ideas for example are birthed, they start as inspiration and are thought about, cycled over and over and evolved within the mind till the point of realisation and implementation of that idea. It has a life, it will either continue to evolve or it will die in time. That death brought on by a 'better' idea evolved from the first idea. Kinda like when the idea itself is going through it's birth. There will be parts as you're working it out that you will discover to be false and so it will be removed from the complete idea, although at the start those false ideas were necessary to illuminate the truth, without them we would have no direction. In it's own way that side piece of the idea having a life and death, microcosm reflecting the macrocosm, layer by layer like an onion. The onion having a core, a start point. And an end, it's outer layer. Reflecting the spiral in three dimensional reality. The mystical onion look to the onion



If you have a look at history and particularly isolating the points of inspired creativity. Where massive change has occurred. A point of evolution, point of cycle. Humans like to build monuments to these occasions the funny as hell thing we've been trying to tell ourselves for ages and will only become apparent when enough bloody monuments stand that just ridiculously point out the path of the idea which is humanity in totality. The cycle and wave motion of it's nature and it's path as it moved across the planet.The macrocosm of our existence in totality exists in the same time as the microcosm. Back to the onion, start, layers and end exist as one. Until eaten by someone (heh heh) then becomes a part of whoever ate it. The little bit of energy that was an onion gets consumed by a much more evolved version of energy expressed as a Hungry Human So for the Onion it started from it's core, it spiralled through it's life creating layer by layer until finally reaching it's outer layer and then the thing that was the onion was consumed.The onion completed the realisation of what it was, it's purpose is to be consumed. It's there to add a bit of flavour to someone's burger. The motion of a spiral gathers momentum, enough to then shoot that momentum out into the...next place. In my belief that which is beyond the physical spiral is circular reality.



Physical life is linear, birth, life, death. After that, again in my opinion, is the experience of the connecting the linear line at both ends. Experience the progression in the instant. The circle. Perhaps the last layer of that stage or perhaps there's more to come before the realisation of the completed idea, the life, the full circle expanding into a ball. Ha that's a good one...Spiracle thinking. Hmm interesting. That's another thing about ideas and the evolution of them. Say an Idea that the totality of humanity is having. All of humanity from start to finish the awareness that is that is thinking about something. We are it's expression. That level of idea will be flowing through us as individual microcosmic expressions of it. If that's the case then can we not also tune into the macrocosmic idea of the expanded circular existing self. Fun ideas to play with. Expand, expand, expand till the only avenue of expansion becomes reduction, the paradox, and the whole thing starts again.