PLAYERS- CURRENT AND POTENTIAL- OF USH'S GAME, PLEASE READ! The end.. and the future

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Ushgarak
Well, though it is lumbering rather like a vast sloth than skipping like a nimble gazelle right now, my Star Wars game is finally coming to a close- the finale will start shortly. Three years work, all done with... (sighs).

But never mind that! We can look to the future. If people are interested, there is always more to be done in what is, when it comes down to it, my favourite franchise.

The current game is five years old in conception. It was written just after The Phantom Menace as part of the new Star Wars wave sweeping the world at that time. It is very much a Phantom Menace mood game- over the course of it you have seen parts of the crumbling Republic, Jedi turned bad (a cliche, but c'mon, this is STAR WARS, that is part of the deal...), great sabre fights, background trickery and deception, and the continuous background presence of the supposedly extinct Sith.

My brother and try and make a great effort to try and make the mood and style of things suit the source. In that respect, we may have done rather TOO well. We have an elegant, traditional Dark Jedi from an equally traditional world, who is a nobleman of his family, and salutes his opponents before fighting in a classic, one-handed style, akin to fencing. Had my brother known of Count Dooku before inventing Kuylen, things may have been different. For a start, Kuylen would have one of those curved-hilt sabres...

We had an area of space called the Confederacy trying to declare independance from the Republic. This is almost plagiarism from GL! Oddly, though, that gives us opportunities. For the older players who remember Damagran, a return may be in order- once the Confederacy of Independant Systems comes together. Damagran would be a powerful ally for Dooku.

We had a tooled up bounty hunter... but frankly that was all based from Boba Fett anyway so Jango hardly copied that. BUT, my brother was VERY gratified that Balek's arm shield, specifically designed to be able to defend against Jedi and Dark Siders, was copied and used by Durge in the Clone Wars cartoon. He will be expecting royalties soon...

In any case. The season of the Phantom Menace is long gone... we need to look forwards. There is a HUGE campaign that is ready tom go- though right now the Dark Side part of it is very fuzzy. The Campaign tells the story of between now and the start of the Clone Wars (and yes, there is a Clone Wars campaign as well, for some distant future...). This is the ten year gap between TPM and AOTC. There are notable differences between the current game and this new one.

1. Less linked stories. In the current game, the episodes come together in one narrative, with very little time seperating them. In the new one, each episode will be its own mini-story, with months or even years between each one. But, there will be a slowly building continuous plotline in the background of it all.

2. More split. Many of the stories will explore multiple things at once- the groups, especially the Jedi, will most likely be split up.

3. No continuous vendetta! This one may disappoint people... but on the whole, Light Side and Dark Side will be SEPERATED. You won't meet. It is simply silly to have you guys continually meeting each other once every few months, shaking your fists at each other, and going home. You wil be following your own agendas in your own stories.

There are some compensations. For example, neither side will be slowed down by the other any more. And you never know... things you do might just affect each other, and you may just meet again one day...

4. More to do with the films. The Phantom Menace was a very particular story; unless I put you guys on Naboo or Tatooine then 'interacting' with it was hard. AOTC told of Galactic events, as Star Wars really rather should! Hence, opportunities to mix film and game are more available.

5. Grander scale of character development. Obviously, I cannot give away what happens in the rest of the current story. But as part of that, and other things, in a story that takes place over years rather than weeks, there will be much more scope in the next game to developing your characters. I do not mean becoming more powerful- that will be handled the same as normal- but in DEVELOPING. Players may wish to try and become Masters. Dark Siders have power of their own to achieve. Each of you will have opportunities to become more than you currently are.

-----

Other than that, there is one other serious change to make- which I would like to hear more opinions on- it got a cautious 'yay' before.

As some of you know, system-based RPs in the main RP area are becoming very popular- numbers and dice rolls and skills and powers are all the rage! We have Matrix to thank for this.

Now, technically, I can do this with Star Wars too. In fact, it is very easy. It uses the same system as the Matrix, and myself and my brother did the Star Wars conversion FIRST- four years before we did the Matrix. If people are so willing, I can convert this on-line game to the full rules, with templates and powers and skills all defined just as they are in the Matrix.

Opinions?

Pingu
Interesting! It certainly would give peoples characters a more clear definition of what they can/cant do within the game. It would also make it clearer as to what skills/powers can be worked towards when developing their characters... yes

I'm up for it! thumb up big grin

Dexx
definitely!...i'm all for it.

Bespin Bart
I'm all for a new Campaign, but I don't know about the dice rolling and such. You get a lot of that with the Matrix game. I like the Star Wars RPG because it is not that way!

Captain REX
Likewise. I would very much like for the Star Wars RPG to stay the same.

Ushgarak
Oooh, I am glad I started this early, this could get complex...

Dexx
well....a guess a vote will have to settle this

Ushgarak
I don't think I need to poll it; I can just see and discuss people's opinions.

Captain REX
I mean, the Matrix RPG is the one that's complicated. This is more simplistic, for the players anyway.

Ushgarak
It all has its ups and downs. Obvious SW fighting is nowhere near as in-deoth as Matrix fighting; the Force powers are the main complication. Blade Tricks are like Gun Tricks; dead simple.

Dexx
neh..why....a dice system is still implemented in this one. only that's it's hidden

Ushgarak
Actually, I am kinda stuck on the duelling; the off-line system for that would be... tricky to convert.

Captain REX
I know it is still there, Dexx, but I'd rather not have Ush saying I rolled a +2 when attacking Fire, or that I got hit for 5 damage. It has a different feel to it when that is hidden.

Though, I'm not sure we could do the Matrix RPG any other way, so that's all fine and dandy there. wink

Ushgarak
Matrix absolutely would not work any other way, no. The point of that game has ALWAYS got to be the fights and so they have to be in detail.

Pingu
I thought duelling was relatively simple. As I understand it the player states their move. A role is made taking into account skill adjustments for blade proficiency, agility, ect. Then another role is made by the defender. Then after any bonus' are added the highest score wins the round and that player wins the point. First to five with two clear points wins the duel. If thats right does it need to be changed?

Ushgarak
Because the converted system involves people declaring their moves in secret. Right now much comes down to simply making an appropriate reply to the attacker, which people like Fire do not like.

Pingu
Fair enough!
I think it would help, especially for folk like me who dont play the Matrix, if you posted an example of each highlighting the pro and cons that way it would be easier to make an informed decision.

Captain REX
Though my mind will not change, either way... stick out tongue

Pingu
hammerI think we can beat you into agreement... stick out tongue

I dont mind either way I like the existing way but I'm always open to suggestions! big grin

General Zink
Existing way I deem better.

tptmanno1
I like the existing way,
It's a nice escape from the Matrix game, where you have to remember stats and moves and such, here I can be more stylistic with my moves.

Ushgarak
I don't see much middle ground here...

Worth noting that there are at least twice as many Focus moves than Force powers. And several force powers are non-combat.

What I could do is type out the system when I can, and people can take a stab at throwing together characters if they wish, and we can kinda see how people feel at the time... even if we do not use the rules, it can help me hammer down what you guys are good at.

tptmanno1
sounds good,
give it a test run before you buy, see if you really want the system

xeous
Would it be possible for meh to get in on this?

Ushgarak
Very much so...

bobcrickett
I want to join! I think we need a few more deadly Jedi in this thing. Galder is getting too many wins... wink

rusky
I think a number-system would be great.. I just love a clear hadns on approach where I can accuratley predict my chances of survival in a fight..

tptmanno1
that would be nice...
Umm, maybe like your LOTR game Ush, Numbers but not overly statistical?

Ushgarak
It is the same system as Matrix.

tptmanno1
Well, I mean Combat wise,
Just delare and attack, not "I wanna use (path name here)"

Ushgarak
That depends what you feel like doing at the time. Combat is not nearly so involved as the Matrix but you still have a lot of choice depending on your blade/force abilities.

tptmanno1
yea,

I guess theres no chance to switch templates before the next game,
I kinda wanted to be a force specialist.

Ushgarak
You can make a new character if you wish, of course.

Do remember I tend to be conservative about what the force can do in combat, though.

Fire
gee, did I say I dislike the way combat is done.

actualy I don't dislike it I just think it is not very fair.

Ushgarak
Oh, I thought that implied dislike. I stand corrected.

Fire
np ush, np

but when it comes down to some sort of vote I do say go with the numbers since it is fairer

Captain REX
Well, that's one for numbers... roll eyes (sarcastic)

No offense, Fire, but I just don't think Ush should make the change. It's been the same for three years. no

Fire
np rex it really is ush his call anywayz

Captain REX
Indeed...though he is kinda looking to us to get our reaction.

Ushgarak
I cannot help thinking that it will be an irrevocably split one.

Fire
huh? you mean making two games?

Ushgarak
Lord no, I just meant OPINION will be split.

Fire
okie good big grin

General Zink
Phew, had me worried for a second, Ush! stick out tongue

rusky
Hey but u could make a lot of new force powers if u used the matrix system, giving combat a greater tactical feeling.. IMO...

Pingu
The more I think about it and I've also had a good look at the Matrix system I think I'd like to give it a go.
I wouldnt have thought it hurt to try, if people then decide they dont like it we could go back to the old system.

Ushgarak
Okidokey!

I would not want to make up TOO many force powers, Rusky. It is just not as appropriate. And duelling is handled in its own mini-game anyway.

Fire
idd, no need for tons of force powers, just the basic powers that we know from the movie

rusky
okey smile

When do we start testing this out ?

Dexx
mwahaha..force powers evil face

Ushgarak
Errr, well, I guess I could start work on it kinda soon, though it must be said the main game is hardly rocketing right now, due to Gundy being busy.

Dexx
bleh..so?..-1 to light side....stick out tongue

Ushgarak
The story kinda revolves around her...

Kosta
Hey, I'm up for more SW RPG, One of the reasons I finally decide not to go back to the matrix one is due to the Dice Rolling, I like the SW ones better, if the matrix ones were more like SW ones ion a combat sence it would be great, but I can see how it would be bloody hard to do that,
Anyway, I'm always up for another Campaign.

Gundark
I seem to have this nasty habit of bucking change.

I say keep it the way it is, but I AM open to a test-drive.

rusky
Great.. smile

Ushgarak
Question- would people want the rules for exotic aliens?

rusky
huh ? Come again ? confused

Baylin
Do you mean rules for exotic aliens like the taking into account for the difference in strength of a wookie v human or do you mean creating a set of special abilities for characters like my Rah who is a made up species? Or both?

Fire
would be cool

Dexx
definitely

Ushgarak
I am trying to judge how many rules to put in.

Basically, because you can set your stats as in Matrix, most aliens can use the standard templates- a Zabrak or Twi'lek is, when you come down to it, much the same as a Human.

The Exotic Alien rules introduce extra templates for those species that are CONSIDERABLY different from a Human- Yoda's species, Wookies, Dugs, Geonosians, Chion...

The templates lose out a bit in some areas but get special Alien powers, which basically define in what way the character is Alien (e.g. smarter, stronger, faster, naturally armoured, force sensitive, immune to mind tricks etc.)

So I wanted to gauge if that was a level of complexity worth including.

Dexx
don't think so....do we have any exotic species?..besides BB?

Ushgarak
Nope.

Fire
I think other ppl might be interested once they see what it actualy envolves

Ushgarak
Ok, here is a basic appraisal of how the system works. Incidentally, if you do not know the Matrix rules, do not worry, I will post full rules in here also. Also note I tend to use 'Jedi' as a collective term for any character that can use the Force.

The basics are as Matrix. Your most important skills are your combat skills- they set your ease of hitting others, and how hard it is to hit you. You can take 25 damage before being wounded, 30 before being double wounded, and 35 before you start making death checks and are at risk of dying.

The game uses the same Round (and turn) and exertion/frame system as the Matrix game. Each move costs exertion/frames, which dictates how long it takes you to do things.

The principle remains the same. You are considerably more dangerous than most enemies you meet. Most enemies you meet are called 'mooks' Mooks are the endless ranks of stormtroopers, bounty hunters, gang members and battle droids you meet. You cut them down in very large numbers. More dangerous are so called 'named' characters (so called because anyone who is ever dangerous at all in action films has a name. The five hundred or so mooks who die... no-one cares who THEY are...). A named character would obviously be a powerful Dark Sider like Kuylen, but also the very rare normal people who are just EXTREMELY good- like Balek in my game, Jango, Boba, Han and Lando from the films. These people are considered to be one amongst billions or more, to be so talented as to be ratable in comparison to a Jedi. Most Bounty Hunters are just standard mooks.

An addition to that principle is Jedi/Dark Siders. All you force using guys ALWAYS have an edge over everyone else- named or otherwise. An equivalently experienced Jedi is always more dangerous than an equivalently experienced Named Bounty Hunter. Jango Fett was considered to be the finest bounty hunter in the Galaxy. This won him a retreating draw against Obi-Wan, but against possibly the finest Jedi swordsman- Windu- he was useless. In general, then, you all play VERY powerful people- more powerful than your Matrix characters. This has to have common sense applied though- a non-combat Jedi template, like an Acolyte, is still going to be taken down by a combat-focussed non-Jedi, like a Bounty Hunter.

The stats are different from Matrix. You have two main sections- physical and mental. The Physical attributes are Strength, Agiity, Dexterity and Speed. The first three, as well as being useful in their own right, are vital components of lightsabre duelling. Speed sets how much you can do at one time, just as in Matrix. The Mental Attributes are Perception, Intelligence, Willpower and Charisma. A lot of your work will involve using the mental skills- Jedi need to do their day to day jobs and Dark Siders cannot kill everything they meet. Force-based characters also have a Force stat. Non-Force characters are considered to have a loose tie to the Force instead, and get a Fortune rating, like in the Matrix. Jedi never get Fortune- they control their own destinies with their command of the Force instead.

There are several combat skills:

Lightsabre (obviously)
Combat (any close combat fighting that is not with a sabre)
Guns
Heavy Weapons

You also get powers/tricks, just as in Matrix but not as in-depth. The various tricks available are:

Force Powers (obviously). They are split into several 'trees'- Kinetic (derived from Push/Pull), Speed, Jump, Cosmic, Living, Light Side and Dark Side. Note that my brother and I do not believe in distinct Dark Side/Light Side powers as such- anyone can use Grip, for example. The LS/DS powers are powers that the other side simply WILL not, not CAN not use. For example, many of the Dark Sie 'only' powers involve unleashing your emotions. A Jedi can do that if he wants but he has decades of training telling him not to.

Blade Tricks: Gun Tricks from the Matrix game, but for the lightsabre. It is in this area that Swordsmen/Freelancers/Blackguards/Corsairs tend to clear up

Combat Tricks: Marital arts moves- but ten times more simple than the Matrix.

Gun Tricks: As in the Matrix game, fancy moves with your guns.

Master Tricks: Special powers reserved for Masters

Alien Powers: The exotic aliens get special powers of their own

Devices: The only non-Jedi one there is, these are the cool bits of technology that Bounty Hunters like to use.

----

All of which may make this seem more complex than the Matrix... but trust me, it is not. Becausre the Mateix has only three templates, and then you must spend a while working out your download set-up. Star Wars is much simpler. As you know, it has closer to 20 templates, which have done most of the work for you. Creating an SW character is this simple:

1. Pick a template
2. Add your stats and skills
3. Pick your powers and Tricks

Done. It should take about ten minutes all told.

There, that was just an overview for you...

Fire
sounds good

Dexx
sounds great

tptmanno1
sounds good

Captain REX
Hmm...I'm wavering... erm

Kosta
Me too. I liked it better when it was nice and simple. No need to count ur attack and life and all that other mumbo jumbo. But oh well.

Baylin
I like! I'd definitely like to try it!

Ushgarak
'Me too'? Surely if Rex is wavering he is wavering TOWARDS it, seeing as before he as opposed.

rusky
go for it ush

Baylin
Yup go for it Ush. If it doesnt work it'll not spoil anything to step back to the old system.
Maybe you should do a poll to get a nice clear picture of nay and yay!

Fire
yea give it a go smile

Ushgarak
Ok, I shall trot this out soon enough.

Incidentally, some news for the Dark Side players. My brother is writing a special story JUST for you on-line guys, that was never played here at home. This is being done as the Dark Side players here have been on a long leave of absence and as it pans out are not re-joining until the rough equivalent of episode VII (though as I say, the episode numbering will be reset, or cease). As the Dark Siders here on-line are more continuous, Brith is writing a Dark Side 'Episode VI' to bridge the gap for you guys!

Dexx
great happy

Baylin
Excellent I'll look forward to it!

Baylin
Thats because we want to rule the universe! evil face

Fire
stick out tongue

Ushgarak
Mind you, I wouldn't get TOO happy. You will be amazed how unpleasant he can make things for people...

I understand the new Dark Side campaign will focus very much on Dark Siders having to use their brains- more reasons will be introduced to remove violence as a universal answer. It's how the Jedi have to play anyway so it is only fair.

Fire
hehe this should be fun...

Captain REX
Better than not playing. wink

I guess I'll go with the system, since everyone else is for it. It wouldn't do to have 8 vs. 1 on how an RPG should be run.

Baylin
Argh! Has anyone got a spare positronic brain I can borrow.... big grin

Ushgarak
Ok, folks, basics of the proposed new rules are here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f7/t31066.html

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