Souls or Programs?

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Numo
When Smith was able to take over Bane's body and return to Zion I began wondering. Was he able to do this because Smith was becoming more human or was it that Bane never had a soul in the first place.

Are people who are grown to be hooked up to the matrix in possession of a soul or does the Architect give them program which will define their purpose or karma in the matrix?

The Omega

Darth Revan
and it's not related to karma... confused

((The_Anomaly))
well, i think that the W. Bros (or whatever they are now..lol) did this on the basis of there being no soul...they base bane's becoming smith soly on him taking over his brain pattrens....

Numo
So wait, you're saying that the human mind sends a program into the matrix apon its entry. So believe in a mind but not a soul.

JediHDM
they can still believe in a soul, but it has nothing to do with their RSI or not...for instance, when Smith took over Bane, bane's mind was basically erased from his brain, which is essentially dieing...if there was a soul, it would leave the bosy when he 'died'...but either way, it doesn't matter...the end result is the same

Numo
The questio then is when Neo was blinded and was looking at Bane and could see a fiery Smith what was he looking at. You say that it was his RSI.

How did Morpheus describe an RSI. Residual self image, it is the mental projection of your digital self. Although this makes sense within a construct, matrix or program it does not in the real world.

Now we know that Smith is a sentient program, which means he is self aware, in possession of consciousness or mind. Anything that exists but is not matter must be energy. Now how Smith's consciousness or mind believes that it should look like is in the shape of Smith which is what Neo say.

Mind, consciouness or soul; all believe in one or the other put they are probably talking about the same thing, one in the same.

JediHDM
Smith took over Bane's brain. Therefore, instead of the human being Bane, we have the Program Smith, inhabiting Bane's body. Smith is still connected to the Source, because he is still a program, even if he found a body to take over. Since anything that is connected to the Source is glowing, Neo can see the RSI of Smith, even though it is in Bane's body. Even though the RSI's of neo, Morpheus, and Trinity are only seen in the Matrix, they are digital projections of their minds, and thier minds are always there in their bodies. He was looking at Smith's RSI, or one of them.

Numo
So you still believe that it was Smith's RSI he was looking at in the real world, then I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

JediHDM
Smith doesn't have an RSI, he's a program. However, since he took over Bane's Mind, Bane's RSI now looks like Smith. and since Smith is connected to the Source, then he glows with an unholy fire that Neo can see through his connection.

Numo
No he comes from the source, he is not connected to it. But yes I think that he does have Residual self image of self outside of the matrix and not digital self, if you know what I mean.

Last word again, Jedi

JediHDM
Smith both comes from the Source and is still connected to it, as all programs and machines are. and he is not human, thus he doesn't have an RSI...the RSI is the creation of the mind, if he has no mind, he has no RSI.

Arachnoidfreak
Everything that is connected to The Source gives off that glow. therefore, Smith was connected to the Source. it wasnt a soul

Numo
RSI is the creation of the mind, sentience is the possession of mind, "I think therefore I am".

The reason why Neo saved the matrix was because teh matrix is a create place to illustrate what the macines and humans have in common over their differences....both humans and machines are sentient lifeforms.

JediHDM
that may be so, and i'm not going to argue that point at this moment, but programs are not machines...programs may run machines, but individual programs do not have minds...just as machines don't have minds. AI can think like a human without being like a human, ie, no mind.

Numo
O.K. whlie you are thinking this over, I ask that you watch 'matriculated' again. Meanwhile I am not saying that all programs but sentient programs (some like Rama kandra with the ability to feel love) and remember the AI that we are talking about in the matrix is far more advanced than the AI of today.

JediHDM
Ok, i know Matriculated, and i don't have to watch it to know exactly what happens, but i am seeing nothing supporting your cause. They are creating a programmed reality, plugging into it with the machines, and then getting the machines to make 'informed' decisions regarding their livelihood and thier thought processes. That by no means means they have a mind. It just means that their AI has the ability to change its programming based on situation and environment.

Numo
Jedi, look passed the flesh and the machine and see the mind behind it.

What is the difference between a programmed reality and the matrix?

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