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ok, some people might know I've started a thread similar to this one, in the hp forum heh, but I realised how many centuries it's been since I've started any sort of thread in this forum

Well, a few ppl know i occasionally write for my parents, so I was thinking of doing another lotr/hp-related article, relating a new topic that's been bothering me...

Firstly, I know few people who've read lotr, or who just like it

I have five BEST friends, and out of the five of them... only one has read harry potter & LotR and she loves them

But i truly despise the way other people feel about the book...
If it's not suited to your taste, i understand that... i mean, there are alot of books some people might refer to as classics, that easily put me to sleep

But, one my 5 friends, ((she's a... Jehoviah, i think )) her parents prohibit her to read hp/LotR, for the reason that it's against their religion.
Personally, i find nothing relating to "devilry" as many people do...
My personal opinion, I disagree with both drastics- those who truly despise the books saying it's dark and against God.... and those who'd go to all corners of the Earth for the books

However, one thing that REALLY tests me, is when people who haven't even READ one of the books, fall by the opinions of others only, and agree that it's evil, and a poor story line, etc.. I know people like that^^

I respect independant thinkers who formulate their own theories and opinions, rather than blindly accepting that of the majority, or relgion, or whoever..
And it's despicable to me, people who defend their own fabricated beliefs, without taking in a word of opposition, and turning a deaf ear to all else... i know alot of narrow-minded people like that..



Of course, I won't be as biased when I write the actual article, but it's just my opinion, and I wanted to hear yours, since you're all fans of the books, so I can make the story as well-rounded as possible

IT is stupid that people can have anopinion before reading and watching them because how do you know that you are going to dislike something if you haven't even sampled it ...and when you have then you are able to give your opion out ....another thing that annoys me is people going on what other people have told tem ...if you heard of your mate something is rubbish you shouldnt listen to them you should find out for yourself and as for the god / reliogious thing .... hmmm i don't think that it has anything to with the man upstairs this is about a ring it may be dark but nothing agaisnt god or the bible.....

no religion or political talk on the forum

bummer eh?

it ain't me i was just answering a call of need from this young tassie so don't tell me of

i wasnt teling anybody off im just saying you cant discuss religion on the boards

ok but i ain't religious

still you cant discuss religion on the forums

ok okoko okokokokokokokokokokokokokok

eh, really? oh yeah, *remembers*

*delete thread*


*move thread*


*do something, gosh*


i need an idea for a new story

ediiit:
but is this really religion?
lol I shouldnt have said that part, then
I just wanted your opinion on all those close-minded people who are against the books, for my latest column..

why my best friend disowned me .... sillly cow

Wow...that was I think the shortest topic.

I was going to put out my opinion but I guess I shouldn't lol...good thing I read through the replies before I wrote this...I would have gotten pretty "religious" but I won't. LOL

Well alot of people argue whether or not the Balrog was wings....and Tolkien once stated that the Balrogs don't have wings, though throughout his whole story it mentions alot of things that could conclude the Balrog having wings...

LOL Now there's an opinion!!!

wings wat a good topic ..... he could be like a firey angel

well a balrog looks to have wings, but they are wings of shadow
so its up to you really, are they wings, or illusions....

Yeah, but PJ showed in the TT that Balrogs indeed, have wings.. I'd be more happy if PJ just continued the arguement.

no balrogs have what appear to be wings, wings made of shadow which make it incapable for it to fly
if it doesnt have wings why pretend too, not to scare of predators because come on who is gonna hunt a balrog

maybe to intimidate their victim

Well in all the scenarios with Balrogs in them they always never seem to fight ground-wise. Like the fight with Glorfindel.

*cough* feanor *cough cough*

"His enemy halted again, facing him, and the shadow about it reached out like two vast wings"
"its wings were spread from wall to wall"



... though this does not mean they could fly (because obviously they couldnt)... as their whole appearance, it's just illusion. Being an Ainu, the Balrog is not bound to his body, he often also seems to change his size.


shouldnt this be in a balrog-thread

hello

why are there not any female balrogs that is totally sexist

probably like frogs...can change sex..... have you seen jurassic park that explains it maybe our little balrog is one of them

well, how would a female balrgo reproduce, stone rubbong off stone is a horrible sound
and when the baby is being delivered, the midwife would get horrible burns!

maybe thats why the ain't no females they were killed because they could reproduce so the males got narcky and killed them either that or it is just ment to be males....

Maybe Balrogs are like..Ostriches...*shrugs*



@Thor: Dude, if there were female Balrogs....could you tell the difference?

yes they would be twice the size and 10 times more moody

maybe lol
But Ostriches' wings don't spread from wall to wall at least not if the walls are in Moria


I think Tolkien did answer the question with the wings

I just forgot what he said



@Thor

maybe there not male or female ......maybe there dodgy

Well, since Balrogs were Maiar, they're technically not male or female. It's like is God male or female. However, they can assume the shape of male/female, as with the Valar, Melian

As for the wings thing, go to the Encyclopedia of Arda and look up Balrogs. There's a nice discusion as to whether Balrogs have wing or not, or whether they have any purpose

True, but Tolkien writes somewhere (couldnt found the right quote) that already in the beginning their spirits were either more female or male, so theoretically they could chose their shape, but they never changed it - Valier always remained Valier, Valar Valar.

and what was he taking cuz its all messed up my head..... aarrrrrrrrghhhh

I think a more appropriate question from the beginning would have been, "Did the Balrog of Khazad-dum have wings when the Fellowship ran into it?" Valaraukar were spirits of fire, very, very powerful ones. Sauron was a great spirit, and he could change his shape to whatever he felt necessary to look like. Though I doubt a Balrog has the kind of control needed to conceal its fiery form in the body of an Elf-look-alike, or a Man, it could probably change shape to some degree. Sauron didn't lose his ability to change shape until after his body was badly, badly damaged in the fall of Numenor, and when he returned (I don't think he fully lost the body, because he carried the Ring back to Mordor with him, as he had it in Numenor and nobody noticed (Tolkien's letters)), he had lost the ability but could still at least rebuild a new body. The Balrog of Khazad-dum had never "fallen" per se. It was still fairly peachy from its entire age of rest, so I would assume it could shape-shift.

As for whether or not the Balrog had wings in Khazad-Dum, it can be seen as literal or metaphorical, and the debate has about as much chance of being settled as those of creation versus evolution, or for some American History, the literal and flexible interpretation of the Constitution.

This are the most common thesis of arguments:

Why would he call them wings, if they weren't wings?
How come a 'WINGED' steed of the Nazgul reminded Gimli of the Balrog?
The Balrog was a creature of shadow, so of course its wings were of shadow, IT IS SHADOW!
How could Balrogs go with "winged" speed in The Silmarillion to Melkor's aid?

He could of course, have referred to the wings as merely great shadows and clouds and smokes that came off the Balrog in a generic shape that appeared 'wingish'. The Hellhawk could have reminded Gimli of it merely because it was dark shadow against light, and evil in nature. As spirits of fire, the Balrogs might have chosen to have the ability to cloak themselves in shadow, hence, "Shadow Flame".

Going with 'winged speed' is actually a fairly common phrase used about things without wings, it just means really fast. Why did he use the term wings or winged so often? Who knows? Maybe Tolkien envisioned them as winged at some times, maybe not.

Do we just have to either weigh the arguments against each other and pick out the one that seems most likely, keep reading and find out something we haven't, or just stick to original ideas? Do Balrogs have wings? Who knows? Were Sauron's actual eyes, his physical eyes, fiery yellow cat-eyes? Who knows? We could argue that they are, but for all we know that's only a 'spiritual' representation of his vigilance, or metaphor like the 'wings'.

Some things we will never know, but we all have the rights to believe and interpret some of the proofs and evidences the way we want.

"Wings are in the eye of the beholder..."

Two cents.

The wings could just be vestigil (sp?), body parts that remain, but are no longer used, like the appendix. The wings could just make it look bigger and scarier.

How can you call that two cents?

what! what did he say...?!!? think exa...i've been wondering that myself...like what the wings are for if they don't use them...or do they use them?...how would they?

*should have read ahead before posting*
*was to hasty*


*s-b answerd question*

I have no clue. Erm..2 bucks?


Sorry.

You must be rich shadowy...