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I really need help understanding all this Maia and Valr and stuff, I have no idea whats goign on Sauron suggested me trying enclopedia of arda but its to confusing, can anyone explain in "simple" terms what it all is, sorry to be a bother, i knwo theres prbably been threads like htis before, but i knwo you all so intellegent in LOTR, wheras I only some thinsg (mainly Witch King )

Pweeeeeassssseeeee help me !

the ainur...spirits if you will

split into

the vala and the aia the valar the more important ones

the valar were like 'gods on earth' who watched over it etc etc

and the maia there slaves..well servants....helpers lol

its hard to explain

riiiiiite. Confusing. will i find all this in The Silmarillion?

Well...yeah...

The Ainur are the Powers of the World.

Like sauron said, they are split into Valar and Maiar. The Valar are the greatest of the Ainur. They are the most powerful. The Maiar are considered Ainur too but they have lesser powers than the Valar. Again, like sauron said, they only aid the Valar with their motives. They are helpers though they are powerful too. The Maiar also have subdivisions, and some of them are the Balrogs and Wizards, so Gandalf and Saruman are Maiar too. Sauron is a Maia too.

It's like this, in terms of power:

Eru himself
The Valar (Annatar especially, they are the greatest of the Valar)
The Maiar
Other spirits

The Encyclopedia of Arda is not that confusing. It's just that they have so many names that it seems like they are so many of them, but no. It's actually quite easy to understand once you get the hang of it.

Yes. You will find it in The Silmarillion. Though to be honest, I can say that I'm more confused with the description in Sil than in the EoA. The description in The Silmarillion about the Valar and their powers is excellent and I fully understand it but it confuses me sometimes of the divisions and subdivisions. But read it, there's more to it than the Ainur, it's a very excellent book.

riite, so let me get this straight.

Ther are these Power thngs (people, or spirits?) called Ainur (how many?), and these are split into two section, Mair andValar, Valar being the strongest, and mair sort of the helpers to the Valar, but still considered Ainur.

OK, i think i got that, but whose Eru?

sorry to bother you guys like this

I'm totally confused!!??

lol, so was I, thats why i started this thread.

btw, cute sig

Eru is Iluvatar, The One, he did everything. He's the God.

Oh ye, I recognise his name, he was an elf wasnt he?


p.s (slighly off topic) What was that elf name was really high and mighty who foaugh at thr Last Alliance? you see him for oen shot on FOTR

please answer above question

Its Aratar or something like that I think not annatar which is a name of Sauron in the second age lol



No Eru wasnt
He was just Eru the One
and nothing else

And the elf you mean is I think Gilgalad

and as shadowyblue I think already said there were 15 Valar in the beginning (8 or something of them Aratar) but Melkor wasnt counted among them anymore later so 14 (see numbers/thread )

annatar was saurons name he took to trick gilgalad...but didnt so he went to erigion..it means lord of gifts


aratar is the word...the eight high valaar

oh? Exa sorta lost me in hers But anyway, who was Gilgalad, and why was he so good and great? he mustve been old.

gil galad oh well

(exa...i waited a week, get ready!!!)

gil galad was an elven king
of him the harpers sadly sing
the last whos realm was fair and free
between the mountains and the sea



(your turn)

Lol

Gilgalad was the last hhigh kingo f the elves in middleearth... and elrond was his herald
yes hes old indeed... his father was (if i remember correctly) Fingon the HIgh King of the Noldor who was the son of FIngolfin son of Finwe and brother of Feanor the Great... erm... well... yes at least he was old and wise and mighty and everything
He also had two of the Elven RIngs of Power, but he gave one to Cirdan (who gave it to gandalf later) and one to Elrond.
He lived in Lindon and already made allies against Sauron with the numenoreans




....
his sword was long his lance was keen
his shining helm afar was seen
the countless stars of heavens field
were mirrored in his silver shield...

woah, confusing

but long ago he rose away a
nd where he dwelleth none can say
for into darkness fell his star
in mordor, where the shadows are

heres the elf himself....mr gillllll galllaaaadddddd



http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f34/t29401.html

its "for into darkness fell his star" *claps*

lol, you guys must do realllllly well in hsitory, if you can remeber all this stuff, and it NEVE really happened! Whoa, can u do my homewrok for me

LOL... dude!! My bad!! Yeah, it's Aratar..

Nice to see you back, Exa.

Just take it seriously, devote some time to it, read it with all your heart and mind, focus on it and don't let your brain drift off to somewhere while reading it, be patient, ask questions if you have to to fully understand it, read it over and over, take notes if you have to (I swear I really did this the first time I read "The Silmarillion". Nothing's impossible about this.

Well if it hasn’t already been said, I’ll put in my two cents.

Eru, the One, whom the Elves call Ilúvatar, made the Ainur, the Holy Ones: the “offspring of his thoughts” before the world was created. Of the Ainur that entered into the world of which they had a part in making, they were called the Valar, the Powers of the World, because of the condition Ilúvatar made that their powers be contained and bounded to the world. The Maiar are the same order as the Valar but to a lesser degree. They are also called the people of the Valar, their servants and their helpers; not their slaves …So, there’s the Ainur that remained with Ilúvatar, the Ainur that went to Arda now called the Valar, and the Ainur that accompanied the Valar who are called the Maiar.

As for the other spirits of the world; i.e. demons, Balrogs, dragons, Iarwain-ben-Adar, the Istari, etc. are considered although some with speculation Maiar.

If I've made any mistakes, please feel free to correct me. *thinks Sauron*

riiiite. I think ill try and read it, but im just startin Rotk (not first time I read it) so i think when ive finished LOTR, ill start with silmarillion, go on 2 hobbit then do LOTR, shoudl be. errr interesting!

Ill get back to you wen ive finished whole thing (expected date 2065)

silmarillion

the first day i got it i read 90 pages...then school turned into a ***** and it took me three month to finish