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Heres a guy who can do the Avengers all in one.
I think he could wipe Magneto up.
I'm not sure if that's his name, but He's got better powers than Maggie.
This round goes to him.

Graviton....yea i mentioned on another thread how i thought he could take magneto...he hasnt been around for a while....but back in the 80's they did portray him as being stronger than magneto...eventually a lot of magneto's powers look like graviton rip offs

He could stop Magnetos squiggly lines in one qulp!

yea i mean back in the 80's Gravitron was makinghis flesh 100 times denser than the twice mutated Thing, who was stronger than the Hulk...and picking up entire skyscrapers and dropping them on the Thing, and trying to drive him into the center of the earth...magneto in 80's would never have been able to do something like that...it usually seemed the only reason Graviton would ever lose was when he was outsmarted or beaten by his own overconfidence and arrogance

Huh? Graviton, more powerful than Magneto? Magneto, a rip off of Graviton? Well...Graviton was created in 1978. Magneto was created in 1963.

Goodness, Graviton controls gravity; Magneto is the master of magnetism and can manipulate EVERY form of energy **related** to magnetism.

Graviton was more powerful than Magneto in the 80's...? Dunno about that, dude - The Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe came out in 1983.

This is what it said about Magneto:



LoL, Graviton is not more powerful than Magneto.

Twice mutated Thing was stronger than The Hulk? How so?

Id like to add something. everything has at least a slight polarization, a negative and a positive pole, due to mixtures of electrons and protons, which means that theoreticly Magneto can control just about any substance at the peak of his power, not just metal. Also his powers are electromagnetic, and he has shown to be capable of controlling electricity to a certain extent, such as emitting electric bolts, controling lightning, etc. although using his powers to this extent would be an incredible strain, its not beyond his limits.

theoretically* damn typos...

Well, the magnetic force is (in general) much more powerful than the gravitational force (depends on various other things though)

It'd be a hell of a light show with both generating fields and fireing at eachother with blasts capable of powering a city.

well, an example of my point. Magneto isnt limited to metal.
http://www.thecreech.com/images/capullo/artwork/large/magneto_gc.jpg

Never....i dont think modern magneto would be out classed by gravitron...however, back when gravitron was new he was doing a lot of the stuff magneto does today, but they never thought to have magneto do back in the day....such as giving himself class 100 strength....another thing...how long can magneto last in space...gravitron has ridden pieces of rock in space...taken gasses from planets and nebuli in the correct ratio, to provide himself a breathable atmosphere...people mention magneto picking up 30,000 tons...gravitron lifted a skyscraper and dropped it on the thing and tried driving it to the center of the earth....and all he did was make a simple gesture with his hand....im glad someone put that picture of magneto up there...everytime he does anything he looks like he's constapated!!!...yet graviton did crazier stuff without making any effort...

WHAT IF THOSE ROCKS ARE IRON........OR NICKLE/COLBOT

Wyn, I will flat out disagree with you (about Magneto back in the day). The odd thing is he was consistently written as way more powerful then than now. Regarding Graviton, I distinctly remember him from West Coast Avengers days and he was...average. Magneto was always considered a NASTY threat in X-Man circles. I mean, seriously - Magneto has summoned inverted tornados, erected nigh impenetrable forcefields, single-handedly neutralized sentinels, electromagnetic pulses...mannn...

Graviton manipulates gravity. Wee. Magneto, again, not only is the master of magnetism, but also manipulates all energy related to magnetism. He is far more versatile, far more powerful, far more dangerous, far smarter. You read his profile, right? "For all practical purposes, limitless."

I liked what Claremont was doing with him in the early #200's when he was going on trial, and what he can do is always contingent on the writer.

http://cyberspace-market.com/chrisclaremontchecklist/Uncanny-X-Men-202.jpg

Case-in-point: in New X-Men, Grant Morrison has him MUCH weaker (having to use the drug Kick to control what, 20 cars simultaneously). Chris Claremont had him torch the earth's magnetic field instantly without blinking an eye. Graviton's focus has to be local, while Magneto has shown to have global reach (reversing the earth's magnetic poles? I mean come ON bro, by doing so he compromised all time and space on earth. No comparison) on many occasions.

Ya 202 is one of my fav.issues.

yea man.....i was not compaing modern magneto to gravton cuz there is no modern graviton.....u see that pic u posted with the sentinels? from graviton's fight with the FF i would think he would just fling those sentinels into space rather than sit there and fight with them....he picked up a skyskraper and dropped it on the Thing!!! with a casual wave of the wrist....why do u act like gravity is a small or unimportant force....it is more important and constant than magnetism...the poles have little to do with real magnetism, in terms of physics...they have more to do with gravitation, which applies to all matter!!!! and even light, as demonstrated by black holes....im not trying to play favorites....i think magneto is way cooler way smarter and way more deadly...but i think old school magneto would get devestated by gravi, who usually loses because of his stupidity and overconfidence

You don't think Magneto can fling a Sentinel into space?? Wow. Writers have him fight because its more exciting that way.

Poles have everything to do with magnetism. ever try to push two magnets together with the north poles facing each other? they don't touch right? thats because they are both negative poles. The only reason magnets are magnets is because the poles are separated. in normal matter the positively and negatively charged poles are spread throughout the object randomly, rendering it neutral. Magneto, being the master of magnetism that he is, can draw a charge(either positive or negative) to one side of the object, making it temporarily magnetic.

he may be able to fling one into to space...but he would be clenching his ass off like he is in that picture...Graviton would jus casually launch it into space

lol clenching his ass off? have you read the comic where he releases a GLOBAL electromagnetic pulse? he certainly wasnt clenching his ass off then

u obviously dont get it....there is picture of magneto straining right in front of u...all im saying is that magneto must put forth a lot of effort to use his techniques....there is no argument...that is why he is always clenching in all his pictures...all i meant was that u never see graviton doing that...however, right up there, all in ur face is a pic of magneto picking up some rocks and looking constapated...i dont see what the argument is..

you only assume that he is straining. he could just be angry. whatever, everyone is entitled to their interpretation.

ya!!!!!!!!!!!!

will somebody put up a pic of gravitron and list all his abilities/powers. this is actually the first tme ive evere heard of him.

Well, I'm not an expert, but what I do know, is

- he has a lousy costume, it's really ridiculous
- he's quite pompous
- his real name is Franklin Hall, and he was a scientist who got his powers due to an explosion in some laboratory (surprise !!)
- he fought the Avengers a few times, the Thunderbolts and I think also the Fantastic Four.

Last but not least: people tend to underestimate him. When written right, he could give Magneto a serious run for his money !! I don't think Graviton could win from one of the most powerful mutants ever, but like I said, he has the potential to be a very serious threat. Remember the mountains that were dropped on the heroes in Secret Wars I ? Well, he could do the same thing without breaking a sweat. That's power, my friend.

Below is something a friend of mine found on an old forum (no idea where), and it will explain the powers of Graviton better than I could do:

"Graviton can mentally manipulate the particles of gravitational force for which he is named, increasing or decreasing the force of gravity on any person or object, or applying that force in more complex ways for flight, manipulation of objects and force fields.

He can sense the world around him through gravity, and effect even desolidified beings. He can use his powers over gravity to raise his own island in the sky just by thinking at it, and also grant limited power over gravity to anyone he wishes.

This allows his followers to fly and have gravitational armor like him. These powers are still at his command and he can revoke them with a thought.

In effect, he is one of the most powerful humans on Earth. He can even keep the effects of his power in motion while distracted or sleeping. Thanks to the gravitational field surrounding him he is almost immune to physical harm."

Don't forget that gravitation is, on cosmic level, the most important force in the universe, even more important than the electromagnetic force (which Magneto controls).

I don't have a picture. Sorry.

It's a pretty even match I think. I would go with Graviton because Gravity just seems like a more fundamental and powerful force. Suddenly increasing Magneto's density until he winds up a pile of organs and crushed bones.

Graviton can operate on a global scale, in one of the Thunderbolts' issues he was in the United States, used his powers to pick up a pebble somewhere in Europe, and deposited it in the back of a woman's head in Australia. Global operation, and fine tuned precision.

Although I think he is kind of a Magneto clone, having him use such a powerful force for wide effects like...force fields, energy bolts, flying, much like Magneto does, and the cape and armor getup.

holy crap he does look like ol Maggy.....

he had an older costume too...thats the first time ive seen this one

Yeah, when I said he had a stupid costume, I meant his older costume. This one is... better. A bit.

yea...costumes r pretty arbitrary...all it takes is a good artist to come up with something cool for Gravi...i dont think the costumes would be a factor in a fight between him and magneto....Magnus, has a very classic and impressive costume though

During the Thunderbolts run (the good one stopped at 75, none of this fight club crap) everytime he showed up he had a new costume or major tweaks or something.

Yeah, that's also the reason why I think Graviton has a fair chance against Magneto. Gravity is the most important force in the entire universe.

Thom Yorke knew what he was singing in his beautiful song Fake Plastic Trees : Gravity always wins .

I dont know where it is right now, but in the book "Science of the X-Men" it explains Magneto's powers, and basically states that at his peak, Magneto can control anything he wants, explained through a universal(or unified) force theory(there actually is a correct scientific name, but i cant remember, or seem to find the book), which, to an extent, includes gravity. If Magneto were to realize this potential(more like a good f*cking writer), and fine tune his power, there would be no stopping him. not with a plastic cell, not with rubber, not gravity, not heat, not cold, nothing would stop him.

Hmm...sounds interesting. They've really been ****ing up his character lately. Damn Chuck Austen, I don't see how he's even remotely that good of a writer. I'm just glad he's not writing the new Invaders series, but just doing a horrible job of introducing the characters, of course horrible describes most of his writing altogether. Anyone remember the She Lies With Angels story arc awhile back? Yeah, gag me with a spoon, fuggin' terrible.

Couple of questions. What will stop Magneto from simply reversing the flow of his blood - instantly? Or giving him a "global scale stroke" - instantly (New X-Men #50)?

Has Graviton ever increased someone's density until they wound up a "pile of organs and crushed bones?" I know he once held down Thor.

Is picking up a pebble in Europe on par with unleashing a global electromagnetic pulse? Or reversing the Earth's magnetic poles?

And why do you think that gravity is a more fundamental force than magnetic fields?

I had forgotten about Magneto's control of blood because of the iron in it. Graviton never has increased someone's density that much, although he threatens all the time, but he is pretty much just an arrogant jerk with no real ambitions. Mag's has him in that department, he's been fighting his entire life for something, Graviton is just a middle aged guy with powers that he has no idea what to use them for.

Perhaps I brought the pebble up under a false impression, you had said he was limited to operating locally, and I guess I just had a different idea of what 'local' was, although with beings of this power, it should be a given that they're not restricted to closest zip code. Sorry.

Gravity and inertia are what keeps the universe and all the crap in it together, so big picture I would consider it more fundamental. Magnetism doesn't keep solar systems together. And that's pretty much all I remember from 9th grade science.

very true

Um, gravity is no more BASIC (which is the most POPULAR definiton of "fundamental" than magnetism. EVERY planet in our solar system has a magnetic field save VENUS. Shit, gravity is not even a constant in our solar system, so..? A quote:

"Planetary magnetic fields thus seem to be the ***rule,*** not the exception, at least in our solar system."

http://www.phy6.org/earthmag/planetmg.htm

Now. Although I would bet MY money on Magneto, I see no need in downplaying Graviton's abilities (although he was not written as a global-level threat in WCA, and I admit that was ONE writer's interpretation). Here is another write-up from a different source:

Frank Hall has the superhuman ability to control gravitation. His power is so great as to nearly be immeasurable. He can increase and decrease gravity to a nearly unlimited number of objects at the same time, even while distracted. He has proven to control the gravity around objects of any mass, even particles of energy and objects slightly out of phase with reality. He can cause enough force to hold down the Asgardian god Thor. He can also form gravitic force bolts and force fields.

If Graviton can instantly increase/decrease Magneto's gravity; Magneto can instantly stop/reverse/accelerate/burst blood vessels in Frank's brain.

Fair is fair, no?

Actually was addressing/questioning Arachnoid's opining that "gravity is a more fundamental and powerful force" - and by fundamental, I surmised that he meant "basic," hence my asking "how is it more fundamental (basic)."

No, magnetic fields are not universal, but I am willing to be that magnetism, in its myriad incarnations (magnetic fields, magnetic field lines, electromagnetic waves) is. Magnetism is nothing more than a force between electrical currents (or electrical charges in motion). Magnetism determines the shape of plasma (the sun is a big magnet, in other words). Virtually all matter in the universe is magnetized. Anywho...

Graviton is quite the butthole (as of late) as well. Magneto COULD shut down Graviton much more quickly than Graviton could toss a mountain his way. No clue how quickly he could increase his mass. Harry Leland's (The Black Bishop) talent is similar (mentally increase or decrease MASS), and more often than not he had to concentrate for a bit (for example, increasing Colossus' mass during the story arc when Wolverine stabbed Phoenix through the heart).

Point being if it boiled down to a first-strike encounter (boring, to say the least) they both possess the ability to knock each other out.

For once, we agree. Sort of.

WHAT?! i did not post that. here it is.

ScarletSpider said


thats the second time you confused me with someone else.

No clue why that happened twice. My apologies.

not a problem Never. apology accepted.

After i have talked with a physic, now i can talk about this better.
The thing is, that gravity is a more basic force indeed, but elctromagnetism is a force more powerful then gravity, and when i say more powerful i mean much more powerful.
conclusion: Magneto wins

That's what I've been saying all along

because gravity is the most important factor in the entropy of our universe, and will eventually lead to the "big crunch" opposite of the big bang...i would have to go with gravity being more fundamental...magnetism is a wavelength of energy i think and just as fundamental as light or sound maybe...

Is this "physic" still in undergrad?

There are four basic or "fundamental" forces - gravity, strong, weak, and electromagnetic. One is not more "basic" than the other. There is no life without electromagnetic attraction (it is attractive and repulsive; gravity, only attractive) betwixt electrons and protons.

There is also no life without gravity.

And yes, gravity is the WEAKEST of the four. By far. To the order of 10^39.

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/forces.html

Yeah Arachnoid - before you posted that I was about to say that on a macro-scale, gravity is more important; however, on a micro scale, electromagnetism is more important.

Can't have life without planets (gravitational forces); can't have life without electromagnetism.

THAT is why I said that one is not more "fundamental" than the other.

Well, Magneto is potentially a personified example of the Grand Unified Theory, which was what i was saying earlier, I just had forgotten the name for it.

Powers: Graviton can mentally manipulate the particles of gravitational force for which he is named, increasing or decreasing the force of gravity on any person or object, or applying that force in more complex ways for flight, manipulation of objects and force fields. In effect, he is one of the most powerful humans on Earth.

Graviton possesses the ability to mentally manipulate gravitons (that carry the attractive, gravitational force between atomic nuclei), enabling him to control gravity. He can surround any object or person including himself with gravitons and anti-gravitons (particles similar to gravitons but with opposite charge and spin), thus increasing or decreasing the Earth's pull of gravity upon it. By decreasing the pull of gravity beneath him, he can fly at any speed or height at which he can still breathe. By increasing the pull of gravity beneath his opponents, he can pin them to the ground, having made them too heavy to move, or cause sufficient gravitational stress to impair the normal functioning of the human cardiovascular system. He can also cause an inanimate object (such as a 1-foot diameter rock) to radiate enough gravitons to give it its own gravitational field, able to attract nearby matter and energy.

By rapidly projecting gravitons in a cohesive beam, he can generate a force blast with a maximum concussive force equivalent to the primary shockwave of an explosion of 20,000 pounds of TNT. He can also create a gravitational force field around him capable of protecting him from any concussive force up to and including a small nuclear weapon.

Graviton can exert his gravitational control over a maximum distance of 2.36 miles from his body. Thus, the maximum volume of matter he could influence at once is 6.88 cubic miles. He once exercised this control by lifting into the air an inverted conic frustum-shaped land mass whose uppermost area was 4 miles across, and causing it to fly as though it were a dirigible. He can also erect a gravitational force-field of similar proportions. (Graviton can perform as many as four separate tasks simultaneously. (He has not only lifted a 4 mile wide land mass as high as cloud level, but he has also surrounded himself with a force-field, gravitically held most of the Avengers against a slab of rock, and projected force-bolts at Thor all at the same time.) Graviton can use his power at maximum capacity for up to eight hours before mental fatigue significantly impairs his performance, and considerably longer (up to eighteen hours) if he conserves his energy during that

I add to this, that:
During his 2nd encounter with the Thunderbolts, he lift an enormous piece of land and keep flying in the sky, claming it was hiw own realm, the "Sky Island", and the same time, he grant hundred of people to fly, and fight with the Thunderbolts wiping them out with ease.

During his 3rd encounter with the Thunderbolts, he was going to manipulate the surface of the continents and give them the shape of his face, read with attention, manipulate the continents.He also prevent the arrive of all the super heroes through holding them up into the sky and rending them unconscious with his control over gravity.He was finally beaten from the T-Bolts cause he give them the chance to get near him.Just cause he underrate his enemies.

All this just to say, Graviton is powerful than Magneto, and he can win this match fast and easy.

I was wondering where this battle might be on the board. I think most of the people here have done a great job in explaining the physics behind it. In the end, I need not go into any great details, and I think most people already know my prediction on this fight. But to summarize, there is nothing that Graviton can do to Magneto that Magneto can't immediately undo, because he wields a far more powerful force than Graviton does. Moreover, he wields it far more fundamentally. Magneto creates and controls EM energy. Graviton doesn't create or control gravity - he controls gravitons, which isn't the same (the equivalent would be Magneto controlling photons). Gravy is limited to the gravitons available. And gravitons actually yield more readily to EM energy than to gravitic energy. Magneto could beat Graviton at his own game.

Not a good matchup for Graviton.

Graviton can just simply throw at Magneto huge things, like buildings, and meanwhile, enhancing the gravity around Maggy at the point he would die under the pressure.

All of which is well and good. So while Graviton is looking for things to throw at Magneto, Magneto gives Graviton an aneurysm.

Like I said, Magneto can't really control gravity directly, but he can wrest control of gravitons from Graviton, since gravitons have a charge. It would be a more interesting fight if Graviton could actually create and control gravitic energy. He can't. So he loses.

Graviton can create and control gravitic energy.When he fought with the T-Bolts in their 2nd encounter, he collapse into a wormhole after emitting bursts of gravitic energy all around himself

Changing the name...

He collapased into a wormhole after using the local gravitons to increase gravity so much that he generated a blackhole. He didn't have to create gravitic energy to accomplish that feat.

Bumb

Graviton is more powerful than Megneto, and also, Graviton's power could create "Instant Death" for Magneto.
As Magneto is sending metal at Graviton through the air:

Hi Magneto! How would you like to instantaneously have a 5 ton head? No, not your entire body. Just your head. Great...
Scruunch...
End of fight.

Magnetism still needs ferrous materials, in order to function. Am I right?
And, anything that is effected by Magnetism must be made up of matter, which is made up of atoms.
Can't Graviton, theoretically, just send the different components that make up an atom, into different directions, basically causing the matter to cease to exist?
Graviton was created with total power over Gravity. Godlike power. Magneto did not have that kind of total control. And, to be honest, I think it is kind of cheap to have him be able to do whatever a writer thinks up during his run on a book.
He was created with limits, and barring him having a Cosmic Cube in his pocket or something, he should still have limits.
But, then again, that is typical of X-Characters. For some reason, the 'tards at Marvel think it is within continuity and plausability for characters, well past puberty, and some in thier later years in life, to continue to spontaneiously "eveolve" or "sprout" new powers, or higher levels of thier existing powers.
That just isn't how mutation exists. And, if they are going to use Nature's habit of mutating life into newer forms, and if they are going to follow most of the "rules" of mutation, they should also realize that after an animal, especially a mammal, passes puberty and reaches maturity, there is no new development.
These horrible characters should not be growing stronger and developing new powers into thier 40's, 50's, 60's and up.
It is stupid.

People say "Oh, Magneto can control the iron in your blood!!!!111@@!one!1

But when you think about it Gravity plays a big rule in the way your Blood flows.

It can Stop, Speed Up and even Revers or Blood flow.

All Gaviton has to do is instantly reduce or completely stop the the Blood flow from Magnetos brain (Causing it all to rush out into different parts or the body) causing the poor guy to pass out leaving is defenceless rag doll body to be violated in many ways.

Originally posted by Horrificus
Graviton is more powerful than Megneto, and also, Graviton's power could create "Instant Death" for Magneto.
As Magneto is sending metal at Graviton through the air:

Hi Magneto! How would you like to instantaneously have a 5 ton head? No, not your entire body. Just your head. Great...
Scruunch...
End of fight.

Magnetism still needs ferrous materials, in order to function. Am I right?
And, anything that is effected by Magnetism must be made up of matter, which is made up of atoms.
Can't Graviton, theoretically, just send the different components that make up an atom, into different directions, basically causing the matter to cease to exist?
Graviton was created with total power over Gravity. Godlike power. Magneto did not have that kind of total control. And, to be honest, I think it is kind of cheap to have him be able to do whatever a writer thinks up during his run on a book.
He was created with limits, and barring him having a Cosmic Cube in his pocket or something, he should still have limits.
But, then again, that is typical of X-Characters. For some reason, the 'tards at Marvel think it is within continuity and plausability for characters, well past puberty, and some in thier later years in life, to continue to spontaneiously "eveolve" or "sprout" new powers, or higher levels of thier existing powers.
That just isn't how mutation exists. And, if they are going to use Nature's habit of mutating life into newer forms, and if they are going to follow most of the "rules" of mutation, they should also realize that after an animal, especially a mammal, passes puberty and reaches maturity, there is no new development.
These horrible characters should not be growing stronger and developing new powers into thier 40's, 50's, 60's and up.
It is stupid.


More specifically on the first half of your post

yes

Graviton is by default, stronger than magneto, and his powers are much more 'self reliant' than magnetos, if you understand what i mean. Graviton should take this match almost every time

This thread can be nothing but a baseless "Who can react first?" debate.

It's not even a matter of who is more powerful. They both have the ability to infict instantly fatal wounds to the human body.

Up

Whenever I am in doubt about who I should back in a debate, I just look at what I have just written, and I agree with it.