Fantastic 4 or X-Men?

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Asian Hulk
maybe the X-Men

Linkalicious
maybe the Fantastic Four.

Maelstrom
I like the characters of the X-men but i like the F.F. better. I think Sue could be a serious threat to the X-men in a fight. Reed could develop a telepathy defense parimeter to fight in. Then it would come down to the fight. The Thing is a powerhouse and Human Torch could level the field. Sue is one of the more powerfull in Marvel. Mister Fantastic is dangerous both in power and intellect.
The X-men are usually eradict and often lose their fights, both physically and morally.

eleveninches
What are her powers?

Linkalicious
she's the invisible woman.

She can turn herself invisible or she can create an invisble force field either protect her and her friends from attack or she can use it to imprison a would be attacker.

If Human Torch went nova on the X-men...then it'd all be over.

It really depends which X-men they are fighting.

badsymbiote
How can you choose? Both teams are absolutely elemental foundations of the marvel universe. How can you choose between the sun or the moon?
The X-men have a seemingly endless no. of members, but the Four have always been just that--and still just as good after all this time. I'm so excited that they're finally gonna make a FF movie! But, I suppose that the necessary technology didn't even exist until recently. It's gonna take a ton of effects and alot of people to bring these chracters to life. The Four are gonna be the bomb, yo!

Linkalicious
Johnny Blaze is too awesome to be stopped by the X-men. Even Iceman would get dusted.

RSSR
Me thinks Phoenix could handle both the Human Torch and Invisible Woman with back to back thoughts. Even with everyone who's ever been in the Fantastic Four were included in this fight: Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch II, Thing, She-Hulk, Medusa, Crystal, and Ms. Marvel II; Phoenix would have no problems handeling.

Linkalicious
RSSR....i think it's safe to say that Phoenix was left out of this equation. I would assume the maker of this thread meant Jean Grey and not the Phoenix...otherwise it's a shoe in.

Arachnoidfreak
there are too many Xmen. i doubt the Fantastic Four could handle them all at once. unless its the original Fantastic Four vs the original X-men. then the Fantastic Four will use them as mops the clean the Baxter Building.

who?-kid
Yes indeed. It would be better if we all knew who would be considered a member of the group of X-Men that will be fighting the Fantastic Four.

VENOMfan
I dont know, I think If the X-men brought both teams((excluding pheonix dur but isnt she dead now anyway?)) and the Fantastic Four had all of there members and alies((as much time as Spiderman spends with them Im sure he would lend them a hand)) they might have a level playing field.

RSSR
Jean Grey, aka Phoenix, is very much included in this discussion. Besides, its up in the air if she's dead. Still, Rachel powered by the Phoenix Force can handle the all of the Fantastic Four by herself.

eleveninches
Although if you have all of the x-men roster, then you should also include all of the FF team members ever, which would include franklyn richards. And im not sure that even rachel could beat him.

VENOMfan
Meh if this is going to turn into another Phenoix disscusion then its a waste. whats the point if a team has ONE member who can eradicate the other

eleveninches
Frankyn richards is probably the most powerful mutant on the planet, even though he is just a kid.

Arachnoidfreak
i dont know his powers...

VENOMfan
I know, Im just saying if this debate boils down to Franklin vs Pheonix then Im not all that enthusiastic about it. having the core members of each side duke it out sounds way better

Wynndar
if there is phoenix in the equation then it is only fair to have franklin in it too...and he does surpass phoenix

Arachnoidfreak
what are his powers??

eleveninches
He has the power to alter reality at will. He is so powerful that even the celestials are afraid of him.

Arachnoidfreak
oh sweet. what issues is he in

Wynndar
well he is basically the most powerful mutant ever...eventually he will theorhetically end up being the Galactus of the universe after this one...he was wanted by Onslought because he has the power to psionically create matter! thus by using Franklin Onslought was able to create another Sun which was about to destroy the Earth right before he was beaten...another example of this power was when he created another entire universe to place the heroes who sacrificed themselves to beat Onslought...this display made even the celestials fear him, thus they were after him for a little bit....he is a really powerful pyrokenetic and telekenetic...this power was mostly demonstrated by his teenage self (Psi-Lord) who doesnt exist anymore and was apparently from a different timeline...additionally when he is around, he can make the FF vastly stronger...for example when the FF fought the entire captain britain corps...they looked like they were losing so Franklin Boosted their powers....Reed could stretch into outer space, the Thing gained Hulk like Strength....invisible woman got even more powerful....and the Torch's flame got so strong he had to fly into the atmosphere and go Nova...needless to say, they kicked the sh** out of the hundreds of captain britians....still he is just a kid...and he doesnt use his powers for destructionor fighting much....i think Roma has his powers turned off right now, otherwise it wouldnt be right for him to stay on earth with his family...but as u can see...anyone powerful enough to get the attention of the Celestials, and create an entire universe, is pretty strong and would definitely balance out the presence of Phoenix....although i think if the invisible woman wanted to kill her she could.

VENOMfan
Well can any sort of concrete list of potential team Members be sumed up for either side?

Wynndar
I think any list of x-men would be fair....the only reason i mentioned Franklin was because JeanGrey Phoenix is not a regular character and her powers r cosmic in nature and not really so much mutant...I just mention Franklin so people would see my point...I dont think it matters who the x-men have...it would always be a close one between the FF and x-men...however I dont see the FF ever losing...they ger down everyonce and a while, kicked around by some people like Hyperstorm or Onslought, or Galactus, or the dreaming Celestial...but after all the crap they end up coming out on top all beat up or broken physically and emotionally...like someone else said, the x-men r used to losing physically and morally, i still think they r awesome and i love reading them.

Wynndar
and who r these people that think Phoenix would have no problem beating the FF...the FF would not need their whole roster (Powerman, Medusa, Crystal, She-Hulk, Antman) to beat Phoenix and the rest of the x-men...that is ignorance...those characters were rarely a deciding factor, more like....umm we technically need at least 4 people to still be called the fantastic four...the only back up people that were ever any real use were Psi-Lord, Nathaniel Richards and Kristoff...any of them could easily find a way to neutralize phoenix by the way. Phoenix is really powerful, really inexperienced compared to any of the FF, and doesnt do anything on her own. the only person in the FF Phoenix would be able to dispatch is the Thing...Invisible woman and the Torch could stop her if they wanted to use the most deadly aspects of their powers...Reed would easily know how to neutralize her...as for the rest of the x-men, they r not powerful at all in terms of the FF...Storm, Wolverine, Cyclops, Gambit, Psylocke(deceased), Marrow, Beast, Angel, Nightcrawler, Polaris, Cable, Bishop, Jubilee, Jean Grey, Iceman, etc...these guys r all relatively vulnerable and would be dead if they went up against any member of the FF....some people r not so vulnerable: Joseph, X-man, Phoenix, Xavier....these guys r not always on the team but would be the only characters that could really put up a fight against the FF....how about their strong characters?...Jugernaut, Colossus(Deceased), Rogue, Strong Guy, Maggot, Warpath...how long would any of these guys last against the Thing...Juggernaut would have been a match until he was drastically downgraded...now i dont think so...

FrothByte
hmm... if professor x was to fight it all out... wouldn't he be dangerous too? thing vs. rogue, human torch vs. storm, invisible woman vs. jean grey, reed richards vs. professor x.... im not sure.

Wynndar
yea las time human torch went against storm he accidentally almost killed her...thus the whole FF vs. X-men....where Doctor Doom saved Storm's arm using science and sorcery

Magee
Collosus and Juggernaut are very capable of going against the Thing and especialy if they both went after him Ben would get wasted

Maelstrom
Really Phoenix is the easyest thing in the universe to kill. Kill Jeans body phoneix dies again. Telekenitics don't phase the invisable womens shields. That totals phoneixs power. All that is left is defending against her telepathic assult. Reed could develop a cerebro like amplifer that would deflect psi energy and simultainosly drain Phoneix and Jeans brain. Then kill her and phoneix will have to rise again. They killed dark phoneix, they can kill the good one to.
Phoneix is only the ace you make of her. Only way x-men win is if they have free reign and have doom behind them. If doom had to imprison them, that would be their defeat. If they willingly work with Doom, they could topple even Reed Richards.

Linkalicious
According to you she is very much included.

What the hell is the point of included a being in the poll that could eliminate both teams at once?

use that lump 3ft above your ass to figure that out.

Phoenix SHOULD NOT be part of this arguement. Especially when the X-men already have a number advantage.

eleveninches
You say that phoenix would have no trouble defeating the FF by herself. But when jean was powered by the phoenix force and had support of the x-men, she still got killed by magneto.

Linkalicious
did Phoenix and Magneto actually battle? or did Magneto kill her with a cheapshot?

eleveninches
Kind of a cheap shot. But It doesnt matter. The point is that if she was meant to be an all powerful being, she would have been able to predict it and protect herself. If magneto can kill her with a cheap shot, reed would be smart enough to set a trap for her as welll.

MaverickIce
True, True.......... I like the FF in this one.......

VENOMfan
point is shes dead right? good then lets use the surviving members cuase that makes for a better disscusion than like said.

Pheonix can do it by herself has been coverd in plenty of threads. how about somthing new eh?

Linkalicious
yah...it sounds like those people who voted X-Men need Phoenix as some sort of crutch to help them with their arguement.

Just use all the damn X-men from the animated series....it's easiest that way.

VENOMfan
pretty much they have a slew of members

Never
LoL, this is hardly a fair argument 11. Jean was JUST learning about the Phoenix Force (recall her saying in #150 that she was adjusting to her abilities) so it is not quite accurate for anyone to say that a fully powered Magneto could stomp Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force.

For comparative purposes, remember Jean Grey in "What If" #27 (even though it is a "What If" her POWER LEVELS were the same) when she bumped into Galactus?

She is not and never was omniscient, and she surely cannot predict the future.

Reed, set a trap for her? LoL, not when she can read/manipulate/shut down his mind via telepathy.

Arachnoidfreak
i think the people in this thread are underestimating Phoenix's powers... but maybe thats just me.

FrothByte
although the xmen are considered by alot to be the underdogs here, couldn't jean and professor x just get into the minds of reed, torch, and thing and shut them out thus leaving only I.woman to battle the whole xmen?

Maelstrom
F.F. have better powers. The X-men may be more powerfull in both powers and number but i give it to the F.F. cause theyre powers are better.

Linkalicious
I think Sue would be able to protect the minds of all 3 male members of the Fantastic Four.

Jeans telepathic skills before she turns into the Phoenix aren't exactly top notch.

But i'm not entirely sure about this.

mikalv1224
The x-men have too many telepaths theres no way the ff would win

Victor Von Doom
Like these, one is vital, one is merely living in the reflected light of the other.

Ba-Zing!

(The FF is the Sun, for the slower reader)

stormfront13
wait- which x-men

azndrgn
Can the Invisible Woman make all her teammates invisible? ro just herself?

Alpha Centauri
To get a good grasp on the power (overall) gap between these teams. Switch roles.

Galactus invades......................the X-Men turn up.

What happens?

-AC

CountQuan
all of the Xmen? that's a lot...

Wynndar
Invisible Woman can easily make the whole FF invisible...she can make the entire planet invisible but it requires an incredible strain. And for all the people bringing up Dark Phoenix, dont u realize the FF have already encountered her? Not only can invisible woman protect her team from telepathy, the memeber have frequently used telepathy blocking instruments created by Richards. Each individual member of FF is more powerful and versatile than individual X-men, but the X-men would have an advantage in numbers. It would be an awesome fight, i always love FF XM crossovers.

hoorayforpeepee
for the love of bejeesus x-men are underrated. by the way, magneto did not kill phoenix, just sent her to some other dimension. as shown at the end of NXM. also by the way, colossus could take out thing. also also by the way, sue's bubbles and johnny's super nova are both as cheap as anything the x-men have. sue's bubble is invulnerable to everything ever and johnny's super nova could disintegrate everything ever (except, inexplicably, the other members of F4), and reed richards is smarter than anybody. ever.

galactus invades? they find the ultimate nullifier, and wuss out much like F4 did.

and by the way, the only franklin richards you could sensibly include would be the child franklin. who could in no way stand up to phoenix.

Wynndar
by the way Thing would wreck Colossus.

Alpha Centauri
Anyone calling the X-Men underrated needs to take a look at some of the threads.

They're getting more credit than they deserve by this thread's existance.

Underrated? They're just about the most overrated people on this entire board.

-AC

Victor Von Doom
The X-Men are possibly the most overrated thing in any comic ever.

I'm waiting for Gambit can make atoms unstable by adding or removing electrons, and is thus capable of manipulating at least seventeen black holes while changing world history with his card-and therefore fate- explosion method.

crazyspinz
colossus has the thing beaten in every category exceot experiance, but he makes up for that with far superior fighting skill, speed strength and durability.

cable is in the Xmen.......

Wynndar
I Argue that the Thing is stronger...and when it comes to fighting...there is no contest...The thing has always been celebrated as Marvel's best fighting muscle...On durability, Colossus is more heat resistant than Thing, but it has been shown Thing can take far more punishment in a fight.
Maybe more people would like to contribute the argument about their fighting skills?

Victor Von Doom
That particular fight was done in a thread.

I would/was backing Thing.

LLG
I don't know that much about the Fantastic Four. My pick is X-men.

Alpha Centauri
Isn't that a bit unfair?

-AC

LLG
Who?Me? Well, I don't know that much about comic books(marvel, dc)I do know somethings about fantastic four,just a little less than x-men. I just think the x-men has many more characters, and some have more powerful powers than the fantastic four. Sorry I didn't explain my answer.

Alpha Centauri
Oh look, you registered in March 05 also. This is getting weird.

You too, coincidentally don't know much about the F4....

-AC

Wynndar
HAHHAHAHAHA....AC u have me LMAO

snoopdogg
Well the FF are Marvels first family as they say but X-men are way more popular imo. Ucanny out sells FF every month. I am not saying I prefer X-men but they are Marvels top dog next to Spidey. I am curious to see how the movie does at the Box Office.

DarkDethbringer
of course the X-Men would win they will out number them!

snoopdogg
Thing got his @ss kicked more often than winning.

Alpha Centauri
Popularity doesn't matter.

There's probably 10 X-Men fans to each hardcore Surfer fan but if it was Surfer Vs The X-Men it'd be a one page thread.

-AC

snoopdogg
well your right on that G. But Surfer is on another level than the X-men or the FF he could probably beat them all at once. I dont even like the X-men.

demigawd
Fantastic 4 VS. The X-men?

ALL of them?

Obviously the X-men win.

Individually? Well, I'm sure I could pick a team of four who could topple the FF, just as I could pick a team of four who would get stomped.

But to make things simple, just about any X-man with telepathy would put down the entire FF in one shot. Invisible Woman included. She can NOT block telepathy.

It took me awhile to find the issue, but I found it. This is the issue that caused the belief that IW can block telepathy in the first place. It's the issue where Jean is located by the Avengers and FF. She goes crazy, thinking they're skrulls because they're acting different than she remembers (because it's been years since she's been awake), and because Sue calls herself Invisible Woman instead of Invisible Girl. So she lashes out at the whole group, leaving them spinning in the air. Sue then uses her powers to stop and contain Jean. Jean expressed shock because she couldn't sense Sue sneaking up on her. Sue didn't know what she was talking about.

That was the issue referenced. I imagine the assumption on this board was that because Jean didn't sense Sue coming, it was because Sue masked her presence with her shield.

In fact, it was because Jean LOST her telepathy. It was revealed at the end of the issue that she had no telepathic power. That was why she didn't sense Sue coming, and that was why she didn't telepathically attack anybody.

So unless someone can produce an actual example of Sue blocking a telepath, any X-men team with a telepath win this with amazing ease.

eleveninches
frank richards would just wipe the x-men out of existance as soon as they try to threaten his family

Alpha Centauri
*Puts Franklin Richards into thread*

I'm just kidding.

Jean on her own couldn't wipe out the F4. Phoenix maybe, but she's not included. Jean is very very vulnerable. She just has an extreme difference maker. Completely agree. If she gets taken out quickdraw, which Reed could do, it's F4.

-AC

demigawd
Why wouldn't she wipe out the F4 on her own? They don't have any natural phychic defense. It wouldn't be any harder than psychically shutting down any four random people. Jean has strong telekinetic shields. The only member of the Four who could get around it would be Sue, but that would be a battle of wills. She couldn't do it quickdraw. Without a quickdraw option that was faster than the speed of thought, Jean takes all four of them out immediately. Or Emma. Or Charles. Or even Psylocke.

I think removing the telepathic option would make for a more interesting battle, though.

Alpha Centauri
Well Sue is at the very least, gonna be able to stall Jean. One hit and she's out of the ball game.

Psylocke, while nowhere near Jean, is more valuable coz she can fight like hell, so can Thing.

The fact that the F4 have Reed is a difference maker.

-AC

demigawd
Reed? How would he be the difference maker in a no-prep situation? Especially against a psionic.

Sue would have to put down Jean faster than Jean could shut down the entire team. A telepathic attack seems like it would be faster than forming an invisible object and attacking with it. So I'm not sure Sue could stop Jean in time. I guess it depends entirely on who acts first. Either way, I don't see it as a mismatch in favor of the Four. It's fairly even with psionic on the team, and X-men have lots of psionics. You still see it as a mismatch?

Alpha Centauri
Well the fact that it's "even" when the X-Men have a psion, I put that as a very big chip on the shoulder of the F4.

-AC

demigawd
Except the X-men are stacked to high heaven with psions. It's a pretty significant factor. Having one psion makes it even because Sue may take the psion out before the psion takes them out. Having two or more on the team makes it impossible...

But I think this isn't a fair thread. X-men supporters are at the advantage because they can choose from among dozens of X-men for all kinds of dominating effects. I preferred the older threads where there were four specific X-men pitted against the Four.

Alpha Centauri
"Sue may take the psion out before the psion takes them out. Having two or more on the team makes it impossible..."

Well they've lost, so apparantly not. Throwing psychics in isn't that bad, but it's always gonna be "mind wipe". Though it'd never be that simple, that's what they do.

-AC

jffxex1980
Y' know, Jean isn't as weak as you all think. Don't let her big boobs and hotness fool you, this chick is very powerful and formidable when pushed.

Draco69
As she is now, Jean would wipe the floor with the FF4. She's the White Crown Phoenix after all.

GalacticStorm
very true draco

Metalmanx
The X-men have this. Not every X-man, but almost any four could take them if they used their powers correctly.

I believe, in my opinion, that Iceman could take or at the very least tie Human Torch in a fight. If you think about their powers correctly, they negate each other really. And I know that HT can go Nova, but IM has been incredible lately himself. He pretty much can't die when he's in his ice form. So I'd so those two would be in a stalemate.

Colossus can handle Thing. I don't dare start arguing that Colossus could easily take thing, because I don't want this to turn into the "Colossus vs. Thing" thread. I personally think Colossus would win in an epic battle. But let's just say they fight each other, shall we?

Jean can take Invisible woman. In fact, Jean would beat IW.

And that just leaves Mr. Fantastic. Hm...he's a unique one he is. One could choose from countless X-men to take him.

Maybe Nightcrawler? I think he could do it. Or...hm...Quicksilver perhaps. Yea, that makes sense. Shadowcat could do it, too. There are several people who could take Mr. Fantastic.

And that's what I think. X-men win in an epic battle.

Darth Trinew
FF: Human Torch, Thing, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman
X-men: Shadowcat, Colossus, Wolverine, Beast

GalacticStorm
The xmen are going down. But you knew that because that is such a poor line-up

nimbus006
Worst than mine lol

Ultimatespider
Well wolverine nearly took down the FF on his own in Wolverine # 22

Wolverine would slaughter Mr. Fantastic
Shadowcat would proably perish
Beast and Colouss would team up on the thing then Wolverine would help them bring down Human Torch

FieryBalrog
Originally posted by Darth Trinew
FF: Human Torch, Thing, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman
X-men: Shadowcat, Colossus, Wolverine, Beast

worst X-men lineup ever no

Originally posted by Linkalicious
I think Sue would be able to protect the minds of all 3 male members of the Fantastic Four.

Jeans telepathic skills before she turns into the Phoenix aren't exactly top notch.

But i'm not entirely sure about this.

what're you, kidding? Jean is an Omega mutant, one of 4 confirmed Let Hank McCoy do the talking:

"Scott, Jean is a grown up Omega mutant. On the Richtor scale she'd be a 12. If she was a mountain, she'd be Olympus Mons on Mars".

Telepathically, she preserved Prof X.s mind inside her own, split it up into every mutant on the planet and had him survive the transition with minimal lost memories. Prof X later tells her what she did was "impossible".

FieryBalrog
Originally posted by Wynndar
I think any list of x-men would be fair....the only reason i mentioned Franklin was because JeanGrey Phoenix is not a regular character and her powers r cosmic in nature and not really so much mutant...

since when is Jean not a regular member?
confused

She has powers even when shes not manifesting the Phoenix like she is now, y;know... which by the way IS tied into her mutation.. her telekinetic mutation. The Beast gives himself limited Phoenix powers by combining her DNA from her blood with his. He calls it "Phoenix blood... the ultimate mutation. Telekinetic godhood, in a jar."


But of course, the X-men can beat the F4 without her anyway. Depends on the lineup.
cool

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