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Just to say this now, NO, the movie is NOT being made and never will be as long as Christopher Tolkien is alive (or so it is implied). This thread is just for fun and from outmost sheer curiosity.

But I ask you, fellow-fans, especially those who have read "The Silmarillion", do you want to have a Silmarillion movie being made if there has been a chance? (Let's say Christopher had a change of heart or something and allowed PJ to make it ) It doesn't matter if there's enough budget or who's the director. The simple question is that do *YOU* honestly want to have a movie made or just leave it as it is and let's just all be happy reading and visualizing them in the book. Or do you want to have an actor that will stand up for the character just to have a better picture of the character? Why or why not?

We know that current technology makes it possible to recreate the different characters and the battles that are far more spectacular than in LOTR. (There's the Battle of the Powers, the 5 major battles of the War of Beleriand, The War of Wrath, etc. This doesn't yet include all the consecutive attacks and destruction caused by Melkor and Sauron)

So, I am not concerned about make up, costumes, artistic direction or visual or sound effect, Jackson is pretty good on that (assuming that he will direct it).

Just in case you want to have a movie made and you had the benefit to choose whatever way the filmmakers want to go.

1) What changes would you make to the book to fit in a movie script? What parts would you suppress? What parts would you change? Would you change the order of the narrative, and then how? Who are the major characters that will appear and who would have the most amount of screentime and character development?
2) Would you make one movie, or several? How many? How would you divide it, considering that there isn't a guidance like in LOTR? Would you just made a movie dedicated to a certain chapter of the book? Are you going to have Ainulindale or Valaquenta, etc.?
3) The characters, I will list some of them, there are certainly more, but who do you think could play each of them?

Manwe
Varda
Ulmo
Yavanna
Nienna
Aule
Tulkas
Melkor
Eonwe
Osse
Finwe
Elwe
Olwe
Ingwe
Melian
Luthien
Beren
Dior
Elwing
Earendil
Feanor
Fingolfin
Finarfin
Fingon
Tuor
Turin
Hurin
Nienor
Beleg
Glorfindel
Ar-Pharazon
....
....

etc.

You get the idea. And do you think the movie will be successful? Will the average movie-goers embrace it?


As for me, I want to. I really do, and I wouldn't mind watching it for even 20 hours or so as long as it's done excellently and still kinda faithful to the book. But I'm afraid that's kinda impossible. Although LotR is bittersweet, there still is a message of hope and sacrifice to build a better world. The message that comes to me from most of The Silmarillion is that life's a *****, you better get used to it. For me, the joy of The Silmarillion is in the details and once they are removed (as they would have to be) all you have left is a mish-mosh of really depressing stories.

I truly think this book is unfilmable without major changes, changes that would in fact not make it "The Silmarillion" anymore.

But that's just me. Any thoughts?

i think they could deffinately make a million movies from this extra series but the content shouldnt be taken from here but from the history of middle earth series -lost tales, lays of beleriand those ones becuase there basically and expanded verison of the silmarillion

in my opion they could just take small stories fromr it, small sections and build it into a movie, sort of say how sauron came about and dont forget

theres a battle i think almost bigger than ROTK

with A WHOLE ARMY OF BALROGS

Thanks! And yeah!! Balrogs!! Gothmog! I also definitely want to see Melkor and Sauron. I also think that the HoME series are more detailed than "The Silmarillion" because they each deal with different matters (having 12 series and all) but it will be cool if the movie will be solely (well, not really) based on the events in Sil. Just have more character developments.

i think they COULD make a movie, and probably SHOULD make one, but if were talking not talking hypothetically then i dont think it woudl work a)no-one would understand what was going on (as in general public, ppl who an read or understand LOTR) b) it wouldnt make no way as near much money, becasue people wouldnt want to go see it, and seen as tho PJ is making the Hobbit, I think people would get bored of all this LOTR stuff. I mean PJ already cocked up the chronolgy in the films, Aragorn getting Narcil in ROTK? WHAT?! and having Shelob in ROTK etc etc, and now making the Hobbt, it would get WAAAY to confusing (for those who havnt read any of Tolkins work)

But aside from that, I woudl love the movie to come out

ignore everything unless it involves melkor or sauron

so we still have beren and luthien

and turin

ar pharazon

and the others BUT we get rid of stupid people like mim

if turin was in it would become a kinda 15 rated movie

as turin-niniel

niniel-was naked

LOL probably... and because of strange ideas because everybody kills himself.............

yeah

oh look its turin well looks like im dead in about 2 pages time *sigh*




turin turambar master of doom, doom mastered

I would definitely like to see Silmarillion! How cool can a Silmarillion film just be? Sooooo awesome cool.

The fights, Melkor, more of Sauron... Yeah!

AWW and the Nirnaeth Arnediad where practially all important pplz die lol

I can't believe you forgot the Balrogs!

we didnt....gothmog

I think Balrogs were named in each and every post here lol

(and the first ones in mine)

yeah and ungoliant would have to give birth on screen to shelob somehow who jumped up her amily table a notch

Old subject, same answer from me as ever- there can be no decent film made of the Silmarillion. It is fundamentally flawed for such treatment.

The Silmarillion seems to jump around alot. One ch is on the Noldor, another on men and then back to the Noldor. It also seems to lack a central plotline. I understood the beginning, but after the5th battle, it all fell apart for me. There are a lot of characters and most of them sound the same, so ppl will be confused. Also, a lot of the elves and men get killed and the drama of their deaths would wear off as more are killed. Silmarillion lacks the strong character attachment that was found in LotR. I only felt a little said for Fingolfin when he was killed, but I could hardly feel for him. W/O this feeling, the movie would be rather dry.

Another thing, there are 5 battles, but it wouldn't be a good idea to show all 5. Even the two big ones (4 and 5, I believe) would be too much action and repetitious. If the first 3 are cut out, how will they be explained, concidering ppl died in them. If this was to work, I believe it would have to be a mini-series with each chapter (roughtly) being an episode. It would alomst be a requirement to read the book in order to see it.

Not that I'm against it becoming a movie, there would have to be a lot of preperations to make such a movie. I really want to see the Balrogs and how someone fights them and se what the Valar look like.

The reason it lacks an apparent central plotline is because there ISN'T one! It was complied from a ton of unfinished notes of Tolkien's, edited by his son to TRY and form a narrative of sorts. But as it is, it is not even close to being a finished product like LOTR; it barely works as a book and there is not a chance in hell of it working as a film.

No serious person wants to do this- not even PJ.

I agree with Ush, too many different things happening in the Salmarillion, it took me far too long to understand half of it.

I have read it three times now and am still confused at some parts.

Discos - Wouldnt mind seeing what Tulkas did!

Everyone stole my idea....waaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh *sobs*

yeah if only you could make it like they never


if only you could like EDIT ALL THEIR POSTS so it was YOUR idea......if only


*hint hint*

Hey! I'm not THAT mean.....

Hmmmmmmmm

sure your not

*cough SAURON PICTURE THREAD WITH NO LOL cough*


joke

but you did change it back...after i nearly skinned you alive

oy yeah kit if you EVER edit one of my posts....you will sufer the wrath of tulkas....*pulls out hammer*

silmarilion movie...hmm...i have already sworn to make it if it is not already made by the time i become a filmmaker....it would be a challenge..but with you guys' help i know i can do it....
maybee the first two chapters will be like a prolouge or something...and then follow with the rest of the book. It would have to be more than one movie...maybee 3. It will be interesting figuring out how to portray the valar and such....
a part of me dosn't want to do it or see someone else do it...because i'm afraid that it won't live up to ur own immagination....as time unfolds anything is posible, even a movie of one of the best books i've ever read.
but then some things should be left alone...and left the way they were writen. I was skeptical when i found out 'bout the "Passion" movie....and still am a little bit.... i was afraid it would ruin my view on the bible...but now i'm ok with the idea of a movie and i think it will make many ppl enjoy and appreciate the bible even more.....just Like a movie of the sil, it will bring ppl to admire and and wonder at the marvelous books that tolkien wrote and keep the story alive to new generations.

smod, you're serious? About making it I mean?

IF i decide to trod down the director's trail....

each story would need it's own film. I've discussed this much with friends, and it's an interesting idea. (mostly because the LOTR swords were so amaxing i'd love to see the black sword and dragon helm of Turin and Feanors sword, Grond (Melkors hammer) and etc.

If LOTR made so many cry, the story of Turin is sooo devistatingly depressing I think a film of it would have people commiting suicide in the cinemas! but it would be a great film.

the march of the Noldor, Feanors death, fingolfins confontation with Morgoth, Ungoliant and Melkors altercation, Tuors story...

but I think Beren and Luthien (with Huan) would be the movie to end all movies.

but unlike LOTR, I think a series of films based on the Silmarillion would have to avoid, strickly, and deviations from the story at all costs for it to work. plus alot of naration would be necceasry. (for the begenning, the childhood of Turin, the making of the palantir/silmarils/etc).

I would to spend hours thinking on the casting, so I wont answer that, instead I'll just say that if annyone were to have played Tom Bombadil it should been Tom Baker or Brian Blessed. and anthony hopkins as Radagast.

*raises eyebrow* I could always start my ban list Smod.

Oh and I already editted a post of yours I think, so I can add a few missed lines in the Movie Mem.







@Bar-en: Dude, I knew you were gonna rant.

yeah, I skip alot of threds here, but this one struck a chord!!!

There are some scenes that I really want to see, but its not worth spending millions on it. If each story is focused on, then it might work.

See, all this effort you would want to put into making it... all for a product which, in the end, would be greatly inferior to LOTR in terms of pace, plotting and characterisation. It is astonishingly not worth it.

In the end, I feel we should appreciate the Silmarillion for what it is- an interesting literary glimpse into Tolkien's other ideas. NOT a classic story of all time which could be made into a classic film for all time, like LOTR was.

Still Ush, it'd be cool to see it put into a movie.....but only in the hands of good directors such as PJ. If it weren't then the movie would bomb, and ruin the name of LotR....

PJ would not do it.

The only thing that could ever be even reasonably pulled off is some sort of Silmarillion tv series... but even then I would advise against it.

As a story, in the traditional sense, it is VERY flawed.

I would definately have to agree. I would not like to see a movie version of the Silmarillion. It is as I've said before, it would fall very short of the book. I love the book as it is, but to try and make a movie out of it would in a sense lose the very essence of what the book is truly about.

i would love to see the silmarilion as a movies that would be wonderfull but in my oppinion i think it would be almost impostible cuz the information in there it would be to much work and stuff

course they said the same thing about Lotr so... maybe it would be possible

Yes, but LotR had a central story core and the characters were all central to that story. Whereas the Silmarillion, you an early history of how things came to be, but then you short stories throughout, i.e. Beren and Luthien, Turin and oh I forget, Melkor and lets not forget my favorite Feanor... ...even they are in some ways connected to the whole of the book.

I think it is possible to make a Silmarillion movie And after the Hobbit movie I believe someone will be encharged to do it. But it will be extremely difficult to write a good plot.

The Valaquenta and the Eladar return to Beleriand untill the Nirnaed Arnoeniad could be the first of the trilogy.

It will be a good deal for the producters and a lot of royalties to the owners. So...

Only sceptics said that about LOTR. Whereas even the fans in the movie business know this is a bad idea.

There is not enough material for multiple films and no central plotline for one single film. You can cast no decent lead and have no decent pull for audiences; it is just a bad idea all around. The only people who want and would like it are die-hard fans- it is not a project for the general public.

GLORFINDEL!!!-the only reason for "seeing" it

Why don't they just make it into a miniseries? That way they could have the major plotlines in two hour segments and be able to fit most of the material in...

i would not like to see the sil on tv being interupted by ads, and comercials...it would ruin it...

It IS a classic story!!! it's my favorite book of all time!!

miniseries would really be the only way to make the sil, but that would ruin the book. I dont want to happen to the sil what happened to lotr now... loads of socalled fans that only live one of the actors and think theyre die-hard fans because they have an OB-poster hanging in their room.

The book is classic (and imo 2nd best book ever... after the Lays of Beleriand) but its a book and not a film. Hobbit would be a better choice.

Well, you are entitled to your opinions on it being a classic story but I find that opinion entirely absurd. It isn't even finished. The pacing is ridiculous, going into great detail on some less relevant areas and quickly skipping over vital parts. It reads like a narrative rather than a story, huge segments are devoid of all speech save the most basic, there are too many characters with too little focus and development over too long a time period, and it was NEVER MEANT to be a story along the same lines of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings.

The Silmarillion isnt really finished, but it's not just a collection of some various stories - Tolkien already wanted to publish the Sil (instead of LoTR) so it has to be kinda finished, at least the contents. Maybe Christopher made it "publishable" four years after Tolkien's death, but I think most of it was as Tolkien himself already wanted it to be.

Christopher says its a "compilation from sources of great diversity (poems, and annals, and oral tales)", but already compiled by Tolkien to form a finished book.

And it was continuously in flux, and Tolkien was never happy with it, and it was never put by Tolkien into continual narrative detail.

Says Christopher, upon pointing out the problems of the fact that some parts of the book are imcompatible with others:

"A complete consistency (either within the compass of The Silmarillion itself or between and other published writing's of my father's) is not to be looked for."

When even the editor conedes it is not a proper story- and that is AFTER editing it- yuou know there is a problem.

"To this may be ascribed the varying speed of the narrative and fullness of detail in different parts... and also some differences of tone and portrayal, some obscurities, and, here and there, some lack of cohesion."

About as close to damning as Chris could reasonably get. He released it because he thought it was of interest to see the background his father used (he directly states that Tolkien used it more as a background than a story) and no matter what Tolkien originally intended for its ultimate publication it never came CLOSE to reaching that stage now, and what we have is not- as Chris directly says- meant to be compared as a story with the Hobbit or LOTR.

And he never says in that Preface that it was already compiled to be a finished work- he says exactly the opposite when he talks of the difficulties of editing it into a single text.

Yes but when he was talking about the annals, the poems and everything - thats not what he did himself, definitely not.

It's not a whole story like lotr and the hobbit, but it's still the best and most complete source about the Legends of the First Age (which are imo classic) and definitely more reliable than the Unfinished Tales and the History.

Just about anything is more reliable than Unfinished Tales.

And yes, I do not mean to DAMN the book. it is by far the best glimpse into the background Tolkien worked on.

But it is NOT a complete story like the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings and a film of such- basically- a mess, is entirely impractical.

On a personal note, actually, I find the First Age intensly dull. I have always been of the opinion that the Third Age was the focus of Tolkien for good reason.

*ponders*

bout what?

a Valaquenta movie would have been excellent, it would bassically be a documentery or a biography for each character.

Also remember there are two published versions of the SIlmarillion... the first edition varies considerably from the present one, especially with the names of Elves and Elf-houses... if anyone has a copy of the first "Tolkien Companion" look up Finwe, and ypu'll see what I mean...

Mind you, if you want to see the Narn -i-hin-Hurin, just check out your local opera house and see if Wagner's "Ring" is being performed... "Siegfried" is almost identical...

most people who pick up the sil. never finish it.
it's not a "proper novel"

what it is (in combination with unfinished tales) is a collected history assembled like the bible of tolkiens world. and it is my favorite because it delves so heavily into the things i find most facinating. and many of the stories really touched me reading them.

it's a book to be reckoned with and like an unfinshed symphony can and should be enjoyed despite it's incompleted but magnificent state!!!

Well lol look into the Lost Tales its far worse there

Tolkien also changed the same names for the later editions of LoTR (like Finarfin, Finrod)

whoah exa and ush had standoff lol

whooooot go exa!

*hides from ush*

'bout ur standoff with the mod

w



*hides too and go exa!*

Nah I rather liked Ush's part... but Il stick to my opinion :]

it reminded me of gandalf and denathor having there standoff....

two stewards bending all there power towards one another in a battle of mind and will...

Movie Adaptations
They said it couldn't be done with LOTR. It has been done. They said it couldn't be done with The Silmarillion. They are right. This would even be too much for Peter Jackson.

I re-read the Silmarillion and have to agree... Sil is not the right material for a film.

It kind of sucks that Silmarillion can't be made into a movie. There are some good scene in the book that I really want to see. IF it was to become a movie, it would need to be broken into several parts ie different people's quests in the book. It's too much of a risk to make the book a movie. It could cost $100 million, yet make only $20 million in the end.

this thread was on page 5 or something...can i ak who goes looking for these thigns!?!?

why not simply start a new thread....and watch kits blood pressure rise...hehehe

yes, just because of the war with Morgoth. the last battle was awsome!

Oi! thats what I said a page or two back!

Discos - cheeky

Nah don't make it into a film...make it into a kick ass tv series (most expensive EVER but who cares )

tv!!!

maybe on cable...the commercials would kill it

lol that sounds rubbish, never a TV series......NEVER

Discos - FOOLISH MORTAL!!

not a TV series... seven 3hr movies with alot of narration should do the trick..

The Sil is a series of short stories. It's impossible to combine into one movie, but they should be broke up on a story by story basis. I't will still be hard and risky, but that;s the best chance it has. We may never see the Valar kick Morgoth's, only in our heads.

however we may want it to happen...it will definately not...esp a tv series even if it were on cable...how would they earn back what they spend on F/X, costumes, extras, location...the Silmarillion on a low budget? god that would suck..

Which is probably the best... 'specially for a book like the Silmarillion its imo bestest to keep your own imagination because youl be disappointed with most other portrayings (just look at the many drawings of the Silmarillion and you know what I mean )

yes...I prefer to keep my version of what Morgoth looks like in my head than it being portrayed on screen...Especially Feanor ...I definately do not want to know what he looks like on screen...

yeah once you see them on screen you never get your first thought back


like when i read i thought of bilbo exactly like a cartoon hobbit from cartoon lotr.....which i hadnt seen

then now i ALWAYS think of him as ian holm

same with Gandalf until the movie came out...

those cartoons were horrible

i kind of thought it helped.....labelling characters with the actor when i read the books after seeing the film.

Discos - sort of worked

God, i know i made some mistakes ... small ones but please!!!!!!!!! i beg you!!! make a human to create this splendid film!!!!!!!!! please!!!!!!!!! i beg you!!!!!! of course, it wold be preferable not to dye till then i will be an angel if you do so!