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if anyone is curious why vader died after he killed the emporer then lread below.

in ep3 it is confirmed that yoda will find out that only the chosen one can kill the dark lord and his apprentice.


since anakin turned to the darkside he became the apprentice.


when he killed the emporer he killed himself.


that is why when we see the spirits of the 3 dead jedi anakin is his adult self wich brought the force back into balance.

we already know what the prophecy is about: creating balance in the force and it has already been confirmed that the only way to create balance is to get rid of all the sith, that's what Anakin did, he went back to the light and killed sidious.

nothing about the chosen one having to kill the sith. they don't even know how to get the balance cause otherwise they would have seeked out the sith after TPM to kill them all.

I thought Vader died because of the bolts Sidious unleashed damaging his circuits?

SMX

yeah... the fact Vader died had nothing to do with the prophecy, he died because of all the Force lightning. He obviously got zapped pretty bad, there's a shot where you can clearly see his skeleton.

no only the chosen one can kill the master of the sith and his student. when anakin fell to the darkside this made him palpatines student. thats why they both died.

you got it wrong, seriously wrong even
the story about Vader is that he REDEEMED himself in the end of the movie, that makes that he is NOT Palpatines student!

Unless it is all being metaphysical about the Apprentice 'dying' when he became Anakin again, beofre then dying of inflicyted wounds. Blah, I hate that though.

Regardless, sacrifise, is this opinion, or do you have a lead for us? The rumour that Yoda will discover that the Prophecy states the Chosen One will kill them both has surfaced before but I have never seen confirmation.

to add to that:
"We will not hear the entire prophecy in Ep3."
Pablo

(that's like in TPM and AOTC:
"You refer to the prophecy of the one who'll bring balance to the Force?"
and
"If your apprentice is the Chosen One..."

How does the badguys dying bring 'Balance' to the force? Dosen't that make all the 'balance' purely on the Light sides favour??

The' bad guys dying' isn't what returns balance to the Force, exactly. It's the fact that these specific particular bad guys are the 'last 2 Sith' facing off against the 'last/return of the Jedi'... back in the days of The Phantom Menace, actually before TPM, the Sith had faded into legend, as ghosts, and the Jedi maintained 'balance' and order in the Force, by the Force, and for the Force... the return of the Sith brought unbalance to the Force, because the Sith are so all-powerful and Evil in their ways (one could even say insideous... in Sideous)that it takes 2 and only 2 of them to disrupt everything that the entire league of Jedi stand for and defend; this is the imbalance, that 2 Sith can f-ck up everything that an ARMY of Jedi defend and protect, by using the powers of the Force for Evil purpose, twisting minds and destroying bodies of anyone who stand in their way...

The only way to bring back the 'balance' to the Force again, is to destroy the Sith, up to and including the elusive Sith Lord Sideous.
So, yes, technically, if you go by the numbers, since there can be unlimited numbers of Jedi, and always only ever 2 Sith, maintaining the balance in the Force always falls in favor of the Light Siders... but, those 2 Sith are kick-ass powerhouses of pure Evil, so they be tough to beat, taking 6 movies to do their ultimate defeat proper justice.

It's kinda like the question raised in the QT Kill Bill Forum: Do you think Bill's death came too easy? It took 2 whole movies and she killed hundreds of people to get to him in the end, it was hardly easy...

same here, hardly 'in favor' of the Jedi/Light Side, because of the sheer Force of Evil involved...

and, back to the topic as listed in the title: I also believe it's sort of a combination and a compromise, having Darth Vader revert to his Anakin persona at the end of the saga, and die; and that he died as much from Force lightning as from his own Force of Will... he was redeemed, he was old and worn out from the whole struggle, he saw the Rebirth of the Jedi, fulfilled the Prophecy of The One Who Would Bring Balance Back To The Force, and it took 6 movies to get there... what else could an old Jedi Master/Sith Lord do? No real jobs on the open market for an ex-Jedi Master/ ex Sith-Lord, and those types of previous careers are real tough to hide, anyone with a cell phone can make a few calls and check out a guy's story... so, old Ani would have a tough time even finding work at Toshi's station or the Mos Eisley cantina let alone amongst the ranks of retired Jedi... so, he compromised and chose the path of the 'retired Sith' and the only way to retire a Sith is to kill him, so Anikin died...

True True.. Still the dark sides only actual strength lay in there manipulations, in being able to con and convince people to donate there huge armies for whatever reason not actually being able to stroll around chopping down jedi after jedi.

Meanwhile theres supposed to be 10,000 jedi just on Coruscant. it's going to be interesting how Palpatine and Dooku (why that name for craps sake) are going to go about wiping out al those jedi

This veers off-topic...

I know it would be weak and stupid a thing to even suggest, but, there might be a less than subtle hint and foreshadow of the greater evil in a certain 'fully-operational battle station' if the planet Coruscant was destroyed in some similar way, even if not by an actual Death Star itself.

I forget if Coruscant was included at all in the revamped version of the ROTJ celebratory end-scenes, but the planet's not really mentioned in the OT, maybe because it no longer exists as a planet, just another asteroid field?? hmmm... maybe the laser-dish super planet-smashing cannon exists in space without the station surrounding it to make it mobile, maybe it orbits Coruscant already, but is turned against the planet, the cannon itself destroyed when the planet explodes, hiding all evidence of its existence and use, until its reborn within the design of the dreaded Death Star...

good quick easy way to destroy a planet-full of Jedi though, destroy the planet itself! but, as I said, and I know, it's weak, and would in no way help Ep III be 'epic' and the greatest ep in the saga if that were to happen...

Fortunatly we see Coruscant at the end of the new ROTJ. Hopefully even our (by now i fear dangerously senile) friend Georgie Lucas can fluff that.

Now i never would have badmouthed George before, but after seein what rubbish he was spouting on the behind the scenes stuff in Ep1 and 2 i just thought, he shoulden't be allowed near Star Wars anymore

"It goes Red laser swords for the baddies, Green and blue laser swords for the goodies" to that effect.

Can anyone else confirm this? Not that I don't believe you Jerico, there's just been so many rumors floating around lately.

SMX

Yes, there is a good establised shot of celebrations on Coruscant at the end of ROTJ!

They tip over a statue of the empire and throw about a stormtrooper

The only way to get true balance in the force was to kill all of the jedi.
In the prequels, there are 2 sith compared to the thousands of jedi .That is NOT balanced. Anakin realised that for the force to be in balance, and for him to fulfill his destiny (by balancing the force), he has to kill all of the jedi until the number of jedi is equal to the number of sith, making the force be in balance.
By the end of the prequals, there are 2 light jedi (yoda and obiwan), and 2 sith (vader and palpatine). This is how the force was in balance.
When obiwan died, luke took his place as the other lightside jedi, keeping the force in balance (2 on each side).
Then, with yoda, palpatine and vader dying, the only one left was luke, so the force was not in balance.

Ok, people are seriously out of control about Balance, and getting it all wrong, as demonstrated by eleveninches there.

It is as simple as this. The Light Side creates balance. The Dark Side destroys it. The Sith will unbalance the Force. Their destruction will restore that balance.

It is NOTHING to do with numbers of Jedi or Sith, simply that the Sith win- causing imbalance, and then only their destruction will remove that imbalance.

There could be a million Jedi and no Sith, and things will be VERY
balanced indeed- because the Light side is the balancing power.

Slickrick is broadly correct, but I think is misleading in implying that two Sith are as powerful as 10000 Jedi. That's not so, they just did things better, getting much of the Galaxy on their side.. We have no reason to think Sith are automatically more powerful than the greatest Jedi. Their lack of numbers is nothing to do with concentrated power- simply pure pragmatism!

I am always confused by people who hold the rather odd 'literal balance' view of eleveninches- as if Luke is not going to refound the Jedi... the whole idea of having to live in a Galaxy where there must be the same amount of good or bad guys for things to 'work' (rather throwing the desirability of balance into question!) rather denies the whole point of Star Wars.

And yes- Coruscant is in ROTJ, so remains absolutely intact.

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up dude.

SMX

why couldnt luke just make everything simple and join vader in ESB....i mean how many people would turn down vader's propasal to rule the galaxy....luke....only luke

Or if his Uncle had said "Oh what the hell, go join the acadamy" Luke would have toddled off and become a TIE Pilot

I doubt that the academy is where you go and study, not become a TIE Pilot.
Why would Luke be so eager to get off the planet and join the Empire which he absolutely hates? To get shot down at the first fight they run into cause they have no shields?

That wasn't an issue in ANH- only ever been an issue in the EU.

It was the Empire military academy he was heading to.

agreed balance thing seems to be skewed a little. A little too much emphasis on numbers. As far as just two sith that was a choice made by Darth Bane to keep themselves in check.

As far as why Vader died, I would have to go with a little too much juice fried his circuits. I cant remember what he said when he and luke where getting on the ship, might have to pop the movie in. But I think he knew it was going to kill him, thus killing the only two sith, and bringing balance back to the force. Fullfilling the prophecy, and he probably dident know it untill it was ready to happen. Dident yoda say futures cloudy hard to see, or something like that.

If there were no sith, it would NOT be balanced, as the light side and the dark side are BOTH aspects of the force. If there was no dark side, the force would not be balanced, as there would be an absence of the dark side. Also, for millenia, there were no sith or dark jedi known by the jedi, but there were thousands of jedi (very unbalanced). This is why the prophacy of the 'one who will BRING balance to the force' exists. If the force was not unbalanced, they would not have created a prophacy saying that it needed to be brought back into balance.

Eleven, I just told you why that is not so! What else can I say? You are wrong to see it like that!

Please read what I said again. it is nothing to do with numbers, and there can only be Balance if the Light Side is in power.

The Force has become unbalanced by the Dark Side, in the time of the Prequel films. That is what the Dark Side does.

Here is that directly from GL:

"The Phantom Menace refers to the force of the dark side of the Universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy."

See? Nothing to do with all the Jedi. They were preventing imbalance.

As I say, you have to stop looking at it in such simplisitc terms as 'Balance' being so banal as to mean the amount of people praciticng it on each side on some giant cosmic set of scales.

As I say, if that were so, it would not even be desirable to have balance!

No, it was the Imperial academy. He decided he hated the Empire when they killed Owen and Beru.

and if they let everyone going to force into the army, at the end they don't have people anymore to do other bussiness

oh and he already said he hated the empire well BEFORE his uncle and aunt died

He says quite clearly in ANH that he hates the Empire, so it's not an EU issue, and worth debating Canon-wise. Of course, the Academy is never ever mentioned again Canon-wise, so then again there's not much to debate.

It was the Imperial Academy. There is actually semi-canon material on this- it was the same place Biggs went to, and in the original script (and cut scene on the BTM cd) Biggs talks about how a Rebel contact recruited him from that Academy.