Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

Look
this is horribly off topic in the lord of the rings forum. so if i get in trouble for this im holding YOU lot responsible.

@storm or any mod reading: you can close this, i just wanted a thread, so everybody can see. if you think i should be punished for this, then do what you will

right, to my point.

all of you, stop arguing ok. its really getting people down
the thing is you think you are doing the good thing, keeping your arguments secret, when in actual fact its worse, do you think all of us cant see.

i know im not one to talk about people arguing, i do my share of it, but im making this thread as a call out to you all to just STOP

ok, we all have bigger problems than to sit here and let minor disagreements tear us up. thats just wrong.

ok if something is bothering you, send a pm, be polite, do things the civilised way

please.


take heed people.


that is all



*awaits fate of thread and self*

you got a good point, Sauron.
This is a friendly place, so let's be friendly. I don't know what happened, but whatever happened should stop

exactly

i have no idea what exactly happened, all i know is that there are alot of underground fights

well, so im told, and the person that told me i dont think is too happy with me at the moment.

Thank You

erm whos been argueing and what are these arguings about

Discos - *in wayne cambell (from waynes world) voice* if this is about the nazguls and eagles am going to be very upset

Your Welcome
wonder if i get in trouble...

its about everything
suddenly people werent allowed to disagree

ok, as much as i hate to admit it i agree with all the people who insult this forum now
storm is right when she said clique mentality

ok, anarion was right with her threads

what have we done

when i joined here i loved this place why....because there was so much to learn. i loved the threads and the people here didnt insult me or not talk to me because i was a newbie. (go look up my first thread 'sauron') they actually taught me things.

what happens now

a newbie comes and we act like they have a disease, we ignore them, we talk to each other, we have become a very close circle of friends which is great. but look at the forum! all off topic things EVERY thread manages to go off topic.
the discussions have gone

and aurora i am sorry but i blame tig party. that thread, for AGES was the only one i visited, and others too.

i feel sorry for the people who join up just now. i feel sorry for what they missed and what they could have had

Ok..like..i m soo confused!
What would u get in trouble for!
Well..What ever it is u have a good point everyone should be nice to each other...

^^ you would be, he mentions newbies

well it is a discussion forum, we have the right to disagree!

Discos - I believe someones been sniffing too much glue

i made yet another off topic thread

and ok im sorry to say but im glad i made it, i hope to god people take notice of it.
im fed up of all this one big happy family nobody else can join crap.

yeah, the right to disagree. but as soon as one of us disagrees with sombody
everyone else jumps in and the newbie is torn to shreds.
remember that noob who left his silmarillion in the woods, i had a lil argument, with him, discos and thor jumped in.

i dread the day two popular members fight and the forum splits in two

ah I see what you get now, we are all like sheep you are saying....well thats pity-ful

I always try to welcome newbies to say what they think of lord of the rings and middle earth....

this is a good family and you asre right it is restrictive to others, but we have invited people in.....

why does this anger you so much my child, tell the oracle

see
whenever i try to be serious people think i am joking

why must everybody always think i am joking

i make a thread, to try and get you all to be friends and not restric others, knowing damn well that storm said next time i get in trouble its a ban and it could be permnament

and you still think i am ****ing joking.


do i wear a jesters hat or something?

no....I am not trying to be funny, well....except for my usual last remark

I am taking you serious, otherwise i wouldntn't of replied....

so the question is what can we do, make a rule to invite eveyr noobie and be friendly to them etc?

tbh I have always tried to do that but would make more of an effort to do so in the future.

im not saying just you
im saying EVERYONE

its getting just out of control

go to the last page of the forum rght? and look at some of the threads. or look at an old thread like the most powerful creature in middle earth one.

read all the good replies from ush etc etc

then look at the ones after it was bumped.

wonder why ush stopped coming in here

i know why

because we have ruined the forum, him and others had this place as a excellent discussion place and we come and turn everything upside down and off topic.

I post some absolute shite about tom bombadil being the witchking and you all praise me for finding it

sexi blonde comes along and posts it, she gets flamed to hell


now tell me thats right?

yes, I believe thats right,

I didn't praise you, I found it highly stupid

but seriously now, we dont tend to suck ass, and you are among the top people who gets their ass kissed. when you got banned people were going to go on strike till you got back......how rediculous is that

everyone does tend to show a shadow among new people and other peoples ideas.

exactly

but its NOT right

why should people laugh and believe it when i post it, remember the whole following we had about it.

and when she posted it she got flamed

true

my question now is, how can we deal with this, we should all change

I agree. Forum out of hand. Pointless threads that have nothing to do with Lotr. Go off topic easily. Shouldnt be mean to newbies. I agree completly.

thank you

good stuff

lets clean up our act, infact the mod should clean up her act and merge threads and delete the total un-necessary threads

the mod is doing a fine job.

pointless threads shouldnt be CREATED in the first place




yes i am aware this is one but this is something i had to say

Yes yes. I also think we should be more welcoming cause honestly, i know i havent been to some and i regret that. We shouldnt bash newbies just because they are new and when they break the rules we shouldnt get on their case cause they really arent that familiar with them yet. I know i love this place and i want others to love it as much as i do so we really need to get better with this kind of stuff. we cant let stupid stuff like pointless threads and arguments tear us apart because then we will loose this place and each other, and that would suck, and no one wants that to happen. so yea, lets make this forum rock like it first did.

hehe cheeky sauron,

erm.....well i say I have enough talk on this thread and will go forth and simply do my best to be a better person,

As will I

i havent been doing that have i
and i thought i was being fairly nice (even though i havent been on to much) its not right to just dis someone cuz there new
you people greeted me nicely now its time to spread the love

(man that sounded stupid... true but stupid)

I don't think it was really like "we come, we turn upside down, we make forum eeevil place" - the thing that changed wasn't really the users but the whole mentality of the forum. As people already stated in different place, Tolkien has somehow left the whole place, few really come here to discuss, we just know each other too good, this is like a second Offtopicarea just with LoTR peeps - probably nobody would notice if all the LoTR-threads would disappear all of a sudden, but it is practically impossible to just think of the idea that one of the "social" threads could be closed . Topicless threads are easier, you do not have to think so much about what you write, you don't have to think for fifteen minutes to actually understand what the others mean. And joking about serious topics is also a lot easier than thinking about a possible answer to an asked question.

Yes, I also post a lot too much in social threads and neglect the others. And, no I also can't imagine KMC without our beloved conversation areas and the wonderful community that makes KMC one of the best places in the net. But for discussing seriously, I go to other forums
@Shadowy - and, no, I still haven't written the thread *hides*




Underground quarrels have always existed and will always exist, it's impossible that everybody is friends with everybody; but is it really necessary to talk about others behind their back, on MSN or wherever the other members can't read it, and it won't improve anything. It doesn't make you cool or something to talk negatively about members some of the others maybe don't like, it's simply stupid.
As Sauron said, if you have a problem with somebody, send them a PM and ask them directly if it isn't maybe just a misunderstanding, and things will clear up. And if you don't like somebody, nobody forces you to talk to him/her... but bashing them won't help anybody.
The worst thing is that most of these half-hidden dislikings (though it got a little better recently) aren't actually about anything, they just are and they deteriorate


... and if they do, they are usually either ignored or bashed

Somebody starts something, the others go with the flow (*points at LL-topic*)


... though I think those things kinda improved lately. There are several new members, and they all were welcomed quite friendly, I think, and are already really a part of our "community" and our "group mentality]
And some earlier threads like this one weren't unimportant in this affair, meh thinks.


So do I I think we already saw what it could be like several times... just think of Tig Party Page 1000

This is but a taste of the terror that members' feuds will unleash, all the more potent for they are driven mad by boredom and pointlessness...


We shouldnt
Wouldnt help anyways
Nobody should have to change just to fit into a forum without problems



I am just a hopelessly naive pacifist
and want to believe in my childish view of life,

that forums/life can work, without half-hidden personal problems among the users and having to suppress the own opinion because others might think differently.

Cheers if you actually read this unconstructive nonsense.

i agree people should get angry or have fights people mite get upset or hurt

People should fight?



Fascinating

i meant shouldn't my typings to fast i think bout something and its typed and sent before i can check it

this still here.

ok, you all read it, exa brought up good points.

and if you want to see the end. to to first annual tig page 970 and read on till about 1000


you will soon see what could be coming soon- to a forum near you

now thats what i call a BIG post

bring forth the shadowy one.

I'd entitle it Short Version Of My Opinion

But she claimed to have written that all by herself. You didn't.

Posting more responsible, thinking twice before posting would be a step in the right direction imo.

i don't know anybody can type so much argh

I agree compleatly Sauron it is nice for us all to be such close friends, but the newbies have a right to be friends with us also.

I too feel bad for them that join now because they are coming in at a bad time. But, teh forum is not compleatly lost, we can get it back.

But, we all need to be nicer to each other and teh noobs for some people the interent is the only place in the world they have friends (ppoints to self) and wont be able to stand it if anyone was mean or they felt left out.

SO, let hte newbies in and stop arguing!!!!!

I love you all (even the noobs ) I jsut want out old forum back

true,ithis is pointless

But it's helpful to us, because we want to get back to normal. So all in all, it's not totally pointless.

some new members make the job hard
but we can do it

yea!but a serious guy?orlando's not,he can be at times,

And this thread is Orlando related in which way?

I was just going to say that Storm

oh wow! how on topic

it said serious guys!!!!!

Yes but you have to take the time to actually read the first post.

otherwise you could post something completely stupid.

lol thats for sure.

i totally agree, everyone should be nice, and when there a specific thread about a certain topic of lotr, then it should stay ON THE TOPIC, this going off topic is for the birds, honestly! threads on topics are made for a reason, to talk about that topic, if you want to make a topic about something else, then go ahead, but dont bring it into a thread thats talking about lotr, okay?

maybe im making no sense here, but...i dont know..*sits down*

Anyways, this thread shouldn't be carried off-topic... I think Sauron made it clear he was serious about this

I agree completely with what you said.
But the "clique mentality" thing- I don't completely agree with it. Because everyone here acts differently, I suppose. Some people really have this clique mentality, and some openly embrace any respectful newbies.
My "clique" is just the people I know best here. Imo, to some extent, a "clique mentality" is just human nature. You can't help but favour those people you know better.

I'm not saying it's a good thing to automatically register yourself against newbies, but it's a tendency we have to favour people we know better.

But I'm definitely against flaming newbies Unless it's one of those newbies who come just to start arguements

hope I made sense... I didn't read it over...

Discos *gandalf voice at isengard after seeing pip and merry smoking*.....*sigh* Orlando fans

lmao@discos! hahahahaha!

"salted pork?"-gimli "hobbits"-gandalf

that part makes me giggle everytime!!!!

Being clique-ey can be passive as well as active. Forming a clique-like mentality is not always as dramatic as deliberately flaming newbies. The trick is to try and see how you look to them. That's not easy.

It is, of course, possible that LOTR has been over-discussed. It is, after all, a finite resource and the films are now done.

I built this place- the first distinct movie franchise area to emerge from the general movies area (which I was also running at the time, and as opposed to the Star Wars areas which actively pre-date the movies area)- as a means of catching the traffic increasingly interested in the coming franchise, and soon sidelined it into being a general discussion point for the entire Tolkien world.

Now, at the time I built it, there was no such thing as socialising in the franchise areas- all of that was done in the GDF, around which all other areas revolved. With a smaller intake, I was free to concentrate on keeping everything as a relatively serious (but not necessarily so dry as to be hostile) discussion on things hositle. New people were not necessarily agreed with, but were always made to feel welcome.

Now, it is not necessarily possible to rewind to that point. For a start, the social dynamic in the forums is very different now. Things have devolved out to the franchise areas, with the GDF a bit of a curiosity and the more recent OTF... well... kind of being a strange and scary zone unto itself. Once that ported in here, a mood change was inevitable.

There are also so many more posters now. The old personal touch is no longer practical!

And like I say, so much has been done. A lot of people have made commendable effort to try and force things back on track. Problem is, once you are having to do that, you are fighting a losing struggle. Things should flow naturally to useful topics, not have to be forcibly pushed that way.

It is, after all, years since I built this place, over a year since I moved on, in fact. Combined with the grand scale change of the forums, there is a certain vibe which I do not think can be practically re-captured. Still, that does not mean that ome things cannot positively change.

Clique mentality forms, not as some form of deliberately attempted hositlity, but as a natural result of social interaction. None of you should see it as a negative assault on your character- but it does have to be accepted that it happened. Well, forums have their ups and downs. The entirity of KMC was once labelled as clique- and to be frank, if it is now now, it is only because it has split into so many mini-areas. It would still be pretty cliquey if homogonous. In fact, there's one of the things; it is not either clique or unclique, on or off- it is in degrees. Some level of clique is an ineivtable by-product of the formation of a strong community; we use the term 'clique' to refer to the negative parts of it all but you cannot completely eliminate that without destroying that community. You probably shouldn't overlook the strengths of the community that was built, and that was after I went. After all, that really wasn't my focus.

If you feel the fourm needs improving- and there are several who think that- then it all comes down to basic rules, simple things like Storm said. Think twice before you do things. Treat what you think the idea of the forum is with respect. Maybe one thing to tbhink about is that the fundamental idea behind this forum is not easily apparent to the new viewer. It is a place to discuss Tolkien, or a place to have fun in a Tolkien-esque backdrop? Pretend you are new, look at the threads, and see what you might think.

Other than that, as I say... it is not worth trying TOO hard to force the pace with more 'intellectual' threads. If that is the sort of thing you want, then if you manage to get that mentality across, quality threads will follow naturally afterwards.

But as I say- the LOTR crescendo has passed. The purpose for which this place was set up, is technically gone. Now, that does not necessarily mean its certain doom, but it does have to be borne in mind. And due to many reasons, some things of the past cannot be repeated now.

Anyway. Why don't you guys come up between you with what you want this place to be? That is technically an impossible task as no two people want the same thing- but with luck, you might be able to come up with some solid 'vibes' to work fom.

Jesus christ ush that things huge--but interesting

YOU Build This Forum?

whoah---revolutions

i understand what your saying. and agree fully with it. especially the losiing struggle, the no two minds wanting the same things...etc etc


Nice Post i will direct everybody to it

Well, we (the JC at the time) decided to move the LOTR threads in the Movie area and put them into a new distinct area and I was given the modding job of making it all work, as I actually, well, knew about LOTR. Obviously Raz literally did the programming, as far as building it was concenred.

aah

why you not modding here, did you pack in---for certain reasons

*cough commercialisation(sp) of lotr by the films cough*

Err, no, at the point Raz made all the JC mods global, the idea of local mods actually disappeared for a long time.

Except for Mah, actually.

I love history

the beggining and time before i joined of the forum interest me

what was this...IQ thing i hear of?

jedi masters??

Dunno about IQ- but there has been a series of ranking systems over time- all of them more trouble than they were worth.

Beginning to stray a tiny tad off topic of course...

sorry.
its what i do

does any of this matter?

Actually,
the last few posts on the page before this one discuss the very essence of the purpose of this thread,
and in a pretty interesting way, too. Especially Ush's first post was really enlightening
So they do matter

He is right, trying to force the forum back to LoTR-related topics obviously does not work

well what are we to do
if we leave it to 'flow naturally' we will be knee deep in fan girl droof by 7pm tonight!

Hmm, not if the general feel of the area changes over time. Like I say... what is it you want from here anyway?

well i want the sensilble discussions back.

what has happened now is sombody will ask a question- sombody will answer it straight away, and if its a popular member nobody dares say 'thats wrong' or 'well i think...'

they just leave it at that

Unfortunately your words ring true for the most part. Contradictary points of views seem to put a lot of people here in this forum off. When one disagrees with ones point of views, it is not because they think that person to be wrong, but to offer a counterpoint as to open a discussion: e.g. a debate. But debates for some reason do not open a floodgate of open discussion but mellifluous words full of fire directed at the person who does not belong or is new and whose only concern was and or is to discern the poplular thinking of those who happen to love Tolkiens body work whether literal or depicted in Peter Jackson's interpretation.

I agree...Nobody wants to argue anymore, because they are afraid of being disliked by the popular members

i wish people would just be themselves here...

and instead of yelling at newbies when they make mistakes, jsut explain the rules to them, becuase they may not know about them yet.

I just want everyone to be nice...and maybe things will get back on topic from there