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Do you think that Mathematics is the Universal Language?

Mathematics is the only true universal language. It's no coincidence that they are using primes.

I'd say music's the universal language

Oh I regonize that quote we watched Contact in Chem!

Yes. Someone suggested music; I respect that person's opinion, of course, but I think nothing could be further from the truth. Few things are less universal than music, in that every culture develops very different sorts of music, and the same music speaks differently to different people; for example, rap music speaks to some people; it speaks to me, too: it says "turn of this **** and find something that doesn't suck." Mathematics, on the other hand is universal--the integral of a function does not change from culture to culture; Japanese mathematicians take derivatives the same way that American mathematicians do.

(double post; if the post button wasn't right by the edit button, stuff like this wouldn't happen)

I think football is the universal language.

I might be a little bit stuck on footie at the moment, what with Euro 2004 and the fact that we're (England) playing France today, but think about it

And I agree with the above statement up till and after the point about rap. Rap is good

Also, music's the food of love, yada yada yada.......

Yes, Mathematics is the universal language, you used everywhere in the world -

This is interesting - ''Within this great system of study works the Gematria that links the lineage of number to the letters of the written alphabet(s) and to the language itself. Likewise, each Arabic letter has a numerical value and each number has significance. The names of and words for all things contain numeralogical meaning , and thence comes a magical linking between all things acrosstime and space. ''

I don't think mathematics is the universal language - it isn't a language at all because you can only express a very limited amount of things, it has no individuality
And as soon as there is individuality/feeling/personality, it isn't mathematics anymore.

A language goes beyond language itself, it has nuances, it can be humorous or serious, sad or lighthearted, but mathematics is cold and because of its universality clear, leaving no room for misunderstandings or also emotions.
1+1=3 is and will always be the same, but you can say "I hate you" in a thousand different ways.

Yes indeed.

I love Maths, im just not too great in it, but i really like it.

Of course it's a language; it just expresses different ideas than the languages you're used to.

Yeah, sure. Math is the universal language because everyone can probably understand it.

However, I really don't like math very much, most boring class I ever took in school.

Well, but by that definition, there can be no universal language, because you'll never have something that everybody understands. Certainly, math has a claim to being universal, dispite what you say, however, because even if a majority of people won't understand 6!, I'm betting that most of them would understand (or could easily be made to understand) 6*5*4*3*2*1. At it's basic level, mathematics is very, very simple--much simpler and easier to learn than any other language.

Fricken numbers...........

*shakes fist at metric system*

actually I dont think math is a universal language....I mean think about. all countries use the metric system except the USA (unless in science class, but even then its used because of standards). even forms of measuring are forms of math...if its not the same all over its not universal.....when the Greeks and Latins used types of math not everybody understood...even still today not everybody knows the mysteries of different maths.....in around about way I'm saying no math is not universal.

I think before we go any further, someone needs to define "universal language".

Do we mean used all over?

Or do we mean understood all over?

This fact will count for quite a lot, as has already been proved..........

no they cant, thats the problem with math

Damn, pretty unlucky, the game I mean..

It is a universal language of sorts, but it can't really express stuff like emotion and all, so it's limited if u look at it as a language..

Forms of measuring are not math. But what if they were? It would still be universal; any given measurement will be the same anywhere it is taken; if the units are different, they can be converted. The Greeks and Romans used math that is completely understood--I'm not sure what you're getting at with that one. Nobody knows all the mysteries of various mathematics; so? I probably don't know all the intracasies of the English language, and I've been speaking it all my life. Everybody knows the basics of mathematics, which makes it universal, and completely unlike any other language.

I still think we need to be a little more specific with regard to the phrase 'universal language'. What exactly are we talking about?

1+1= 2 actually

I think he meant that 1+1=3 is always going to be wrong, therefore it will always be the same.

oh I see

of course it is,
but 1+1=3 is as true as "I hate you" that was just an example
And you can lie in all languages
Mathematics just gives a lot more possibilities for it

Different units can be converted,
-So can different languages.

Exactly


I beg to differ
Not everybody knows the basics of mathematics *agrees with Finti*
Let alone use them


That's exactly my point - there is practically nothing artificial everybody understands
But everybody will understand a smile, a flower - or maybe some symbolic traffic signs

Or art. Think of cave drawings - we understand nearly everything it says, and so did the people 2000 years ago and will do in 2000 years; today, we are often unnecessarily complicating things. Is grammar necessary? Is trigonometry necessary for communication?
Finding/inventing more knowledge always means building boundaries, limits that didn't exist before.
And the more we know, the more we're distancing from a universal language.

Mathematics only is universal for those who know it
And that is, sadly, only a small percentage - 70 percent of us do not know to write or read, I doubt that most of them understand mathematics, at least not in the universalized way we use it.

True, but the basic level is like a writing system - absolutely necessary, but of little use without the language itself.

Arroch, sorry, you're a chick. I didn't check your profile *hides*

Nope. You can put art with music on this point; I don't understand modern art, and never will. I think that most of the art by the old masters is pretty, but if it's supposed to convey any sort of message, it completely eludes me.

Different units can be converted in the context of mathematics. I have absolutely no conception of how many kilometers three miles is, but I can convert three miles to kilometers anyway, because conversion is a mathematical process. I also have no idea what the word "tree" is in French, and I can't convert it, because conversion is not an English process.

You're right about the smile; it's been proven that all cultures display emotions using basically the same facial expressions.

Maybe you don't understand how basic the basics I'm talking about are. I'm talking about things like 1+1=2. It doesn't matter if you've never had a mathematics course in your life, if you take one object and then put another by it, you will know that there are two objects. There are absolutely no other languages (except perhaps body language) that everybody is able to grasp (even if only on a basic level) more intuitively than mathematics.

As much as I like math, I don't believe it is a universal "language". Sure, everybody in the world does math pretty much the same way (2+2 will always equal 4), but you can't communicate using a set of numbers. (unless you're talking in binary of course) So I think art and music are... It's amazing how you can go on talking about something forever, and people don't understand what you're saying, then you show them a picture, and they all of a sudden get it. Music can sometimes do the same thing, if the person likes the same kind of music you do.

Call me crazy when I say that art is the most effective way to convey a message, but I really have experienced what I described myself...

Enough people seem to agree with you that I won't call you crazy, but I'll point out that it certainly isn't true for everybody.

People are saying that math isn't a language because it can't convey certain ideas; well, no language can convey all ideas. You can't learn to integrate with art, you can't express empotion with math; the closest thing to an all-purpose language is what we're using right now, and there are still ideas that it's not very useful for conveying. No language can convey all ideas; if it could, we wouldn't have so many. You can communicate with math; you just can't communicate the same ideas.

You have a point there... It's surprising how many things math can describe or explain. So I guess it depends on what your definition of "universal language" is.

*coughs so much she chokes*



Isn't that what I have been trying to say? How would you define "universal language"?

And i'm going to be all old-fashioned and say that latin is TEH universal language. It's a shame people don't learn it anymore

Here, we still can learn Latin at school... I do... but the antique "Universal Language", like modern-day English, was probably rather Greek

Still, the language was limited to the mediterranean regions, far from being universal

One of the most universal languages in the sense of independance and also global understanding without being bound to any region is probably Esperanto , as well as other artificial, planned languages - Tolkien's Elvish languages for example. Of course there aren't too many people understanding them, but like those understanding mathematics they dont live all in one country but are spread over the whole world

Over here, Latin and Greek are still taught. I' ve studied it.

But it isn' t a universal language.

A language that does not depend on words to understand the message would be one of the characteristics imo.

uhm.. the language doesn't belong to any country... andevery nation speaks it (well... maybe not anymore)

isn't taht what we call a 'universal language'? I'll be learning latin from september this year, and i have to say that it was a good way to communicate. Hey, if it worked for centuries, why wouldn't it work now?




puhlease... nobody speaks esperanto... nobody i know for sure.. it's just not popular enough.

Latin WAS neough

It's true, more people know Latin than Esperanto, but it's still quite a popular language; several official sites for example are offered in English and Esperanto.
Most important, Esperanto isn't bound by etymology to one country, but it's main purpose is to be easy to learn, avoid misunderstandings and even if foreign always sound familiar;
Learning basic Esperanto is surely easier than learning basic maths

Esperanto's futile - languages evolve

When I was in high school, they only offered two languages required for college entrance: spanish and french, pretty much related to latin but theoritically vulgar to the 100th degree latin...

Latin being universal during the time of the Roman's world maybe, but now, no...used for medical and scientific terms yes and with some greek but more latin.

the language used most often in global economics is imo english but that doesn't make it universal...

esperanto i've heard of but i never thought it universal, i could be wrong, but it's a funny language...

but as more and more people are influenced by the media and american entertainment such as music and movies, english is pretty damn near there; or at least the american attitude...

esperanto sounds too much like spanish for me and latin is nice, clean and.. well... when you know latin, it's a lot easier for you to learn other languages. I'm SO for Latin.

I agree, Latin is very beautiful, logical and all in all a wonderful language (currently listening to some Latin songs ^^ Hymni Nocturnales at the moment),

But it takes a lot of practising and long years of study to be able to speak it, unlike for example English with its nearly non-existing grammar -
the advantage of Esperanto is that the words are easy to remember , the grammar is simple, logical, without exceptions.
This planned-ness kinda gives it a mathematical "aura", everything is a little too logical to be alive
It's, hm, flawless


Lol,
A funny language?

Why that? I think it's pretty interesting
All being the work of just one man

But English is so irregular, I mean come on any regularity is like an irregularity!

funny in the sense that it takes bits and pieces from other languages to form a new and maybe unique language...simple maybe but still difficult...

english only because i've spoken it all my life does not conjugate verbs as in other language with some exceptions, i.e. the verb "to be"

English
(I)am
(you-sing)are
(you-pl)are
(they)are
(we)are

Spanish
(I)soy
(you-s)es
(you-fam)eres
(you-pl)son
(we)somos
(they)son?

...

i agree with you!

How about art?

I mean it never changes, people may interpret it differently, but a painting will always be the same thing, and will never change.

i guess.. it all depends on the person's point of view.. i may even say that music is the uiversal language..

what dya think?

I think both music and art are universal... I explained that earlier in the thread.

I voted yes on this one, but i think that the universal language is the elements and atomic structure. Elements are pretty much the only thing that is a constant to everyone worldwide, they cant be changed, so are always the same.

lol my fingers are tired now.

A priori human characteristics are universal.

Music and art are very definitely not, however they communicate (generally) in a non-verbal way at least. The problem is, that in itself is no guarantee.

Laughter and tears, things like that are universal every1 understands them.

Thief!

what? did u already say that? if u did im sorry i jus couldnt be bothered reading all the posts...

Oooooooooo, fight fight fight fight.

I think the most incredible displays of universal communication are right under our noses.

I was watching Chili Peppers concerts on TV and no matter where they went people were singing the lyrics.

Music is beyond amazing.

It's strange, some people spend a LONG time trying to learn languages yet give them a cd that they learn to love and they'll learn the lyrics in no time.

-AC

Yeah don't worry, it was only the one before yours.

DNA is the universal language IMO. Everything living thing has DNA.

Can we communicate through DNA alone though?

-AC

If we can understand the question any answer is achievable. Yes, I think so. Even a dead person speakes through their wounds.

cussing is the universal language

any ways, but id say music is

"Yes, I think so. Even a dead person speakes through their wounds."

Do you mean using DNA to find out about ancestors and the like? I'd say that's just gathering of information from things that represent our heritage and genetic personificaton. It's not really communicating. Any answer isn't achieveable when you consider if the answer if obtainable anyway. To quote Adam West of Family Guy:

"You can't interview a dead man...CAN YOU?!"

-AC

In a matter of speaking, yes you can. Frosenics can determine everything about a dead person by an autopsy: sex, living habits, food eaten, blood type... the list is endless. With further examination in more detail, they can even learn the state of their brain and how it was used: if one side of the lobe was used more often than another. If the person was more logical or creative.

DNA can be used to determine a person's heirtage and evolution. Though no one has actually done this to my knowledge. But it can be done.

That only suggests a universal shared factor. It's not accessible to the average Joe Pinhcpenny.

"universal shared factor" is the key phrase here.

That does not equal a universal language, I do not understand DNA.

DNA is the building blocks of life. Thus DNA must be in everything. Hence it can be intrepretated as a unverisal language broken down into its simplist components for those who can understand its meaning.

'for those who can'

That's where it fails.

First learn what DNA is and then we can talk.

This misunderstanding is proving that DNA isn't a universal language. Not everybody can learn what DNA is to the extent and level of communicating with everyone about that one subject.

If by DNA you mean genetics then that becomes science and science isn't a universal language. It may act as a catalyst in some case helping us to understand things that WILL help us communicate but DNA itself is something that you HAVE to learn. ANYONE can listen to music and understand it. Different levels of understanding but the starting point of learning about music is just listening to it. To learn about DNA you have to actively study it.

-AC

Learn what it is?

B-but I thought it was the universal language? We should be able to talk now right?

I know what DNA is.

You are so off the point it's ridiculous.

Can you honestly say music is understood by all as a unversial language? We can listen to it, however what is music really saying that we can all understand? Deaf people can not hear music, so your argument breaks down here.

"Can you honestly say music is understood by all as a unversial language? We can listen to it, however what is music really saying that we can all understand? Deaf people can not hear music, so your argument breaks down here"

Language is largely spoken and written. But what we are dealing with here is language through communication. Sounds that everybody can relate to, not necessarily lyrics and get whatever they want out of it. Deaf people can't hear music purely because they are unfortunatly handicapped. It's a natural defect not a fault in the communicator itself. If they could hear they would be able to use music just as everyone else could. Literature could be considered a great communicator but if you can't read it's your fault not the conduit for communication.

-AC

It has often been pointed out that despite the great differences between cultures and natural languages on Earth, mathematics is the same the world over. In fact, scientists are inclined to believe that mathematics and the mathematical rules which underpin nature are universal, so that all intelligent races in space have at least this much in common. Since the fundamental properties of numbers are the same everywhere, these can be used as the basis of interstellar messages.

Plus, has anyone heard of the divine ratio?

Take a look at http://www.championtrees.org/yarrow/phi/phi2.htm

It is very interesting. Just my looking at a spiraling universe or flower we see GEOMETRY--which is math.

How we choose to communicate the world we experience is telling of the people we are. A culture that looks to possess (be it ideas or objects) will move toward a system of generic and specific labels- Math

^ Me too

Mathematics is the only language shared by all human beings regardless of culture, religion, or gender. Pi is still 3.14159 regardless of what country you are in. Adding up the cost of a basket full of groceries involves the same math process regardless of whether the total is expressed in dollars, rubles, or yen. With this universal language, all of us, no matter what our unit of exchange, are likely to arrive at math results the same way... Read more from Math in Daily Life

This being from the movie Contact...
Mathematics is a universal language. Someone wishing to communicate with extraterrestrials would format their messages in numbers and symbols and broadcast them via the electronic spectrum. It would be a little too much to expect that any glass-skinned three-eyed bug listening for messages from the sky is going to happen to know English as a second language... from
Universal Language - Even in California