The First World War and the Bible: Paralleled
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wait i'm confused?!!? Might this give us another clue to when the rapture will happen?
Um ... no?
It looks to me--and I'm sorry if this is coming accross as rude, but not sorry enough to keep me from saying it--as though you're picking at parts of the Bible, trying to make them somehow "prophetic." It doesn't really work.
If the "winds" of Revalations refer to WWI, then before they blew, according to the Bible, people of God should have been marked on the forhead. I once saw someone with a tatoo on his forhead, but that's pretty much it. Even if that bit was supposed to be symbolic, God's children were clearly supposed to be protected; durring WWI, all people died alike, good and bad. In fact, aside from the fact that they both involve war, I see nothing in common with WWI and Revalations; you could as easily draw parallels between WWI and the Norse Ragnerock.
You talk about the "wind of war" having to hold back. I'm not sure what you're point is; the war happened, with no indication that it was "held back."
World War I did not "involve all directions," and it was not universal. To the best of my knowledge, only a minority of the countries of the world ever got involved, and it was basically a European war.
I'm not sure what modern weapons have to do with anything. I'm not even sure that it's correct; by today's standards, the weapons used durring WWI are ludacrously obsolete; did you know that fights between plains were originally conducted by the pilots shooting at each other with pistols?
I see you quoted Matthew. That's interesting, mainly because, after the "wars and rumors of wars," Jesus prophosised that Christians would be "hated by all nations," something that doesn't seem to have panned out.
So sorry, but no.
dude this is revelation, it talks about the future
Well, I am not sorry at all- no, this is all balderdash, stretching anything to mean anything. Hogwash and nonsense from top to tail, even if you had gotten the date right. Those parallels you have attempted to make are gibberish- as Gregory says, you could probably attemtp to draw what look to be parallels between WWI and any destructive conflict prophecised or done in mythology ever. Frankly, any damn big war was going to be made to try and fit the exisiting religious prophecies- and people tried to do it with the Napoleonic Wars at the time as well.
WWI did, however, involve all continents, Gregory.
Cannot really see this as philosophy though.
we're all gonna die
I don't see anything philosophical about ripping a way too ancient book out of its context and say it was about WWI
I am not afraid. I deserve Heaven
hey, if I can't get in, I'll drag you down with me
Bah I will be flying with my new wings powered by Ferrari then. You have no chances
I'll clip your wings
"Basically" European. Some South American nations, for example, might have sent troops, but South America itself was not engulfed in war; neither was North America, as far as I know, even thought the US and Canada sent troops. The war itself was distinctly European, with some fighting spilling over into Asia and Africa.
You are disqualified Gregory!
even though I am religeous I feel that people that think evey war is a prophecy is grabadge sometimes wars just happen
Focussed on Europe. But major fighting happened on three continents, the results of which were all vitally important; naval engagements occurred worldwide, troops came from every inhabited continent on the planet, and only the interception of the Zimmerman Telegram prevented the Mexican/Japanese invasion of the States.
It was a truly World War- that is why it got its name. European powers were fighting, at first for politics, and then for survival. Jews were fighting for a homeland- something very few people remember about WWI. Japanese were eliminating German colonial possessions with British aid. Australians, New Zealanders and Canadians were fighting in the name of the Empire. The Americans were fighting in the defence of their own country against people who planned a war on them that would have taken a quarter of their country. Africans fought to ensure the only goods that gave them any prosperity were protected. Arabs fought to overthrow their Turkish oppressors, and make sure they were in a position to stop the Jews.
Just about everyone of any note was in that war.
All but 2 continents were involved with WW1
South America and Antartica.
All others were in some way involved.
There was actually if i rmember several world wars... WW1 is like the fourth. 100 years war, napoleaonic, etc... i think we have yet to se the war that it speaks of in the Bible. The battle of Armeggeddon.
No; the telegram proposed that if Germany and America went to war, Mexico should ally itself with Germany; we can't know that America and Germany would ever have gone to war if the telegram hadn't been intercepted, nor do we know that the Mexican president would have agreed.
Regarding the rest of your post: I knew most of that already. But my definition of a "world war" says that unless the actual fighting (not merely the countries involved) is world-wide, the war isn't either. And the fighting wasn't world-wide; it missed half of the world's populated continents. So, without actually disagreeing with the points you raise, I still claim that using my definition (and I suppose we're all entitled to use whatever definition we want), WWI was not a "world war."
Wow! umm..... that's very interesting!
@ Jury Copeland Ok first off Revelations is a really hard book to interpret so unless u really know what ur doing i woodnt try! but if u want to make those comparisons, go ahead! Im all 4 Christian ppl!
@ Gregory. Children of God ARE marked. They have the light of God inside them. Where did u read that they wood be marked on the forehead? Unusual . . . . .
Secondly (tho im not sure whether this really has anything to do with the topic), we suffer at the hands of man, not God. God knew after Adam and Eve blew it in the Garden of Eden that people wood quarrel. God gave us the ability to chose what we do and whilst he loves us more than anything, if we chose to persecute each other then, well basically, we r just being as foolish as Adam and Eve were. (erm
im really having trouble explaining what i mean here!) but when God shows himself to the world, there will be no more wars and all those that suffered at the hands of men, even tho they were children of God will be taken to heaven and find peace. (man now i sound like im prophesizing!)
Well u guys can make ur own conclusions but thats just what i think!
Revelations 7:3--"Do not damage the earth or the sea or the trees until we have marked servants of our God with a seal on their foreheads."
As the history books defined the First World War:
the reason why it is called a world war...
"The first terrible war, which involved the whole world and caused so much death and destruction, was World War I."
World History in an Oriental Setting, p. 850
Moreover, the news about this war could not have spread all over the world until the fulfillment of another prophecy which would occur at a time when the world's end is near:
"But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book until the time of the end; many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase."
Daniel 12:4, NKJV
Before the end of the world, knowledge shall increase, enabling the news of this war to travel fast so that the whole world could hear about this war. This increase of knowledge was manifested in technology:
"The electric telegraph was the product of many minds in many lands, but it became a practical success in the hands of the American, Morse, in 1844. A submarine cable was laid between England and France in 1851... telephone entered commerce with the American inventor, Bell, in 1876. The Italian, Marconi, succeeded with wireless telegraphy around 1896. Radio was invented shortly before the First World war."
World History, vol. 2, p. 543
The First World War was unique in many ways. It was the first war global in scope, and the news of this war was heard all over the world.
Now, (for me) undoubtedly... it's the First World War.
hm i c ur arguement but may i ask why u decided to make the connection? Were u reading Revelations or did someone else pose the qn?
Just curious . . . .
@ Gregory. Thanx 4 the verse. But (not meaning to sound like a tech) if u look at 7:5-8, it says that those marked were of the 12 tribes of Israel. So that doesnt necessarily (and seeing as this verse is aimed not long after Jesus' death) mean that all of God's children wood be marked, only those of Israel at the time.
The bible is just an assembly of tales just like the book by the Grimm brothers. That it should predict any future events is plain BS
My mother taught me about it...
and after reading the said verses...
I was some kind of...
"The four angels"
The "four angels" mentioned do not refer to ministering spirits sent by God to deliver short messages to certain persons as the angel Gabriel did. Neither are they preachers of God's teachings as John the Baptist was. Instead, they are leaders of nations sent by God to fulfill special functions.
Apostle Peter stated that even kings and governors or representatives of nations are sent by God (I Pt. 2:13-14). They are also called angels in the category of messengers of nations according to Prophet Isaiah:
Heads of states are messengers and are, therefore, called angels. The "four angels" mentioned in Rev. 7:1-3 are heads of states, messengers of their respective countries, "holding the wind". This prophecy was fulfilled by the "Big Four" of the first world war, namely, Woodrow Wilson (US President), David Lloyd George (British Prime Minister), Georges Clemenceau (French Premier), and Vittorio Orlando (Italian Premier).
The Bible, on the other hand, shows that the works of the messengers sent by God are not in all cases religious or spiritual in nature. For instance, Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, was a pagan; yet ha was sent by God (Jer. 43:10). The Persian king Cyrus, too, was sent although he did not worship God (Is. 44:28; 45:1). Hence, belief in God among leaders or heads of states is not a necessary condition for them to be sent by God. A person is God's messengers so long as God had chosen him for a specific work. Unlike those sent by God to preach the gospel, representatives of nations need not to be God-fearing or believers in God in order to be called angels or messengers.
The prophecy, therefore, concerning the "four angels" holding the wind (or war) was fulfilled in the persons that compose the "Big Four". These "four angels" were granted the power "to harm the earth and the sea" or they had the authority either to continue the war or to stop it. These four leaders of nations were instrumental in putting an end to the war of 1914 - dated back November 11, 1918 - when they met in Paris to confer concerning the Treaty of Versailles.
Somehow someone sits and try to find connection between old prophecys and big historical events. Just like with Nostradamus it is a bunch of, how did USH so delicatly put it, hogwash
they " the so called four angles" were very much a reason for the build up to the next world war. So what they did was ending one war just to sow the seed of a much worse conflict
Mexico was highly amenable to that proposal and it is very likely indeed it would have happened- virtually the entire American army at the time was on the Mexican border; both sides were ready for a fight. And day by day, America was sliding inevitably into that war, as any objective analysis shows. That is why the Germans felt the need to make that arrangement in the first place.
And you may stick to your narrow definition if you wish- it is at variance with nearly all respectable historians and experts. It was a War that involved nearly everyone in the world, that no-one in the world could ignore, that everyone in the world had to decide upon an attitude towards, that engulfed and affected the whole world, and changed the whole world. It saw fighting from Flanders in France, to the Austro-Italian border, to Brest-Litovsk in Poland, to the Dardanelles in Turkey, to Syria, Basra and Baghdad, and Jerusalem, to German East and West Africa and the colonial path down the African way, to the Coronel Islands in the Falklands in South America. It was the first War that involved the whole world. If you cannot call that a World War, then your definition of what a World War is, is simply not worth consideration.
maybe because the Second World War is more inevitable...
...maybe because the Bible has already told about it to happen...
I asked my mom... and my question was
Why was the First World War in 1914 followed by the Second World War in 1939 when the first war was already held back?
Then she taught me something like this...
When the act of "sealing" has started, the succeeding chapter tells us:
To make certain the equivalent of this "silence in heaven for about half an hour" in number of years, months, and days, we must remember that:
With man, a day is 24 hours. Thus,
1 day with the Lord = 1000 years with man, or
24 hours with the Lord = 1000 years with man
1 hour with the Lord = 1000/24 = 41 years and 8 months
1/2 hour = (41 yrs, 8 mos)/2
1/2 hour = 20 years and 10 months
So "half an hour" with the Lord is equal to 20 years and 10 months with man's time. But the prophecy says that the silence in heaven is "ABOUT half an hour" or not exactly half an hour. The Second World War started on September 1, 1939 while the First World War ended on November 11. 1918. Let us compute the number of years, months and days between the two world wars (using general rule):
TIME INTERVAL = LATEST TIME - EARLIEST TIME
WW2 started Sept. 1, 1939:______1939___9___1 (minus)
WW1 ended Nov. 11, 1918:________1918__11__11
The "silence in heaven for about half an hour" is equivalent to 20 years , 9 months and 20 days, short of 10 days to be exactly "half an hour". This is precisely the fulfillment of the prophecy regarding the "silence in heaven for about half an hour".
Perhaps, this is the reason why I believe the Bible is really the "Words" of God.
perhaps, this is the reason why everyone else believes people like you look too deep into these things
I can prove you that Star Wars prophecies the end of time too if I look deep enough to it... same goes for numerous books of course
actually 1000/24 =41.67 so how does that add up to 8 months. 8 months is 3/4 of a year 3/4 of a 100 is 75. the digit here is 67 so just to get technically 7 months should be the answer.
The bible was written by man, the new testament was created 350 years A.D and the 4 gospel that we know of as the NT today was decided upon cause they talked about the divinity of Jesus. 80 or so gospels was scraped cause most of them probably described Jesus as just a mortal common man. This way of writing a book sounds very much like totalitarian propaganda style
half an hour according to God or man?
"You can use your definition, even though you're wrong and I'm right." Gee, thanks, Ushgarak. As it happens, I have no really interested in pursuing this any further, so we'll leave it at that, I guess.
If you have your calculator with you working properly, then have it calculate again carefully.
1000/24 = 41.666666... indeed....
that is 41.67 years when you rounded it off, right?
to convert 0.67 years in months, we will have
0.67 years x (12 months/year) and you'll get 8.04 months
when originally it's 7.99999999... months.
and logically and reasonably equal to 8 months.
therefore 41.67 years is 41 years and 8 months.
PS: you cited 67 to be in 7 months.. but that's a decimal number, which is 0.67 years. i know you were wrong there.
And uh are u gonna disagree about the return of Jesus too finti? That woodnt be a good idea!
he doesnt believe in Jesus.
yeh i noticed.
but mate, if u just read the verse u were saying alone, (Revelations chpt7) u'll c that in itself, the verse actually does refer to the winds. Its only if u shove lots of verses together can u make decide the 'winds' refer to a war. But that doesnt necessarily mean the WW1. *shrugs* i dunno. Im not gonna try and interpret Revelations, i'll stick to the other books in the NT.
not difficult to defend the return of him, how many versions are out there you can pick from? 4?
depends on what you uses to get there. I used 100 not 12 months, see you can actually do what you feel like to get to the answer you want. For me the digit 100 was the full year you used the 12 months. It can be used either way depends on what answer you are looking for. It can be argued either way
I believe there was a man named Jesus and he was some sort of "rebel" of his time, what I dont believe is that he was divine.
Just for curiosity. Ask you this, why wasnt all the gospels written about Jesus included in the NT. You know there has been recovered other gospels about the life of Jesus, at least the 3 last years of it. The Vatican together with the protestant churches say they are just a hoax. Of course they do, cause they rock the entire foundation they established their believes around.
And the book of revelation aint all that different form other mythological prediction of an Apocalypse. So that it predicted WWI is crap. After all it aint all that hard to predict future conflicts, that it pinpoint a special conflict though, no.
A great, peaceful, idealist and revolucionary Man. But just a man like us.
Nowadays his destiny could be Guantanamo prison or a bullet in his head. It does not surprise me if he was tortured and killed in the name of God.
thats how I see it too, only I would add that he probably was a religious man too but his views offended the ruling religious body of that time. They probably saw him as a threat toward the foundation of their believes and power...........they should only have known what stir this man would cause.....sad thing is that even today they miss his point completly. The power of divine belivings doesnt belong to the pope, cardinals the churches, bishops, priest and vicars.
It belongs to man and his will to belive
Nice Finti, I agree with ya on that post
If I'm not mistaken the movie "Stigmata" has this topic.
and the problem with that would be?
a huge discussion about divine or not
We disagree borg We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. Prepare to be assimilated
I'd like to see evidence or atleast more than those 4 ppl telling us he is actualy divine.
We know it borg
p.s. Sorry for the off the Topic
I've got 5 saying I'm a monster, does that count?
1000years/24 = 41.67 years
0.67 years = 8.04 months ABSOLUTELY NOT 7 months
41.67 = 41 years and 8 months
no2 NOT 7 months
lol my calculator doesn't say so.
so is using an old book to trick people into believing
when i say 'foul excuse' i was talkin' 'bout the simple mathematics
and I wasn't
before you say such things, even when joking, remember not everyone believes your religion
before you say such things, yerssle, even when joking, remember that a lot of people believe in that 'old book'.
*best Mr T voice*
I pitty those fools
oh, and for the record, I wasn't joking
I was just quoting you to make a point...
*pokes yerss in tummy*
simple minds then
no just how you wanna argue the point
I figured that out myself too
but phoe, ya gotta understand that some of those religious (if not many to all) people get offended when people like I say "it's not true" "it's all bull" etc.
then you have this member who gives it as a FACt that the bible prophecised WW I, can't people like I get offended because of that?
yes you can, but that doesn't mean you have to insult christianity and the bible while you get offended!
of course you could be offended by it yersie, shouldnt let that petit thing offend you though. Let them be the fool
why not, havent the christians offended enough mythologies and religions to tolerate themselves to be ridiculed
yerss, i get that your offended. But by calling the bible an 'old book' and insulting christianity, how do you think you are making me feel? I have never pressed my religion onto anyone or told anyone that it must be true - I have only ever said that it is true FOR ME.
we give them what they did in the past/present
and to set it straight: I'm not offended by a long shot, needs more than religion to do that
I say Odin and Tor are the true gods
that is a staggering generalisation. Personally, I have never offended or disregarded other mythologies, faiths, religions or philosophies, and I'll think you'll find that very few christians actually have. the ones that do don't have the right to call themselves christians - the first ideal of christianity, for me at least, has always been 'love thy neighbour'
Not only is that tarring everyone with the same brush, but have you ever heard of forgive and forget?
look at history and you find out that A LOT OF CHRISTIANS have
that's true, you never did that
but erm... phoe... it IS an old book... the last added part is 1500 years old, I already think 40 year old guys are old, what do you think I consider 1500 years
By Tor, do you mean Thor?
They'll both be senile by now. Haven't you come across the Voluspa?
yeah, the thing christianity tries to teach people, but they quite miss the ball a few times themselves
ancient book would have been ok - some old book is rather derogatory
his name is TOR not THOR, thor is the english version of the NORSE NAME TOR
I'm sorry, must have been bad translation, in dutch it doesn't have a bad ring to it as far as I'm aware of it
many wars fought in the name of christianity were excuses - the rulers wanted lands, riches and power, 'crushing the infidels' had nothing to do with it
and how did the christians try to stop that?
and the churches position on newly conquerd land was???????
I help you on the way, commit to christianity or die
Finti is right. The Church has allows positioned itself in that way. When you're a christian we'll "portect" you, when you ain't FYAD
ah Fire, stop bragging about your Dark Ages course, I was the one who actually GOT that question
I never said that the ecclesiastical brethren were not corrupt - you only have to read a bit of Chaucer to see how bad they were. I am saying that the everyday Christian, of today or historically, does not try to crush other people merely because they have a different faith. Those in power are nearly always corrupt - those who follow the faith with all their hearts are not, but they can be lead astray.
And I say Endovelico is the true God
then you should observe the discussion of seperating State and Church here in Norway
*brings in banner, reading:
I believe in the 12 foot long eclair*
I saw your GOD Thor
in one of the Marvel's cool characters.
g2g now, my revision is demanding I do the revision boogie! see ya laters!
*hugs yerssle and drags him off to do revision*
"Kicks Endovelico and starts to build a monumental eclair"
but phoe, I don't wanna do revision again
Corl.... an eclair without chocolate isn't a real god
it wasn't only in the darkages, they did all through the ages till the second part of the 20th century
We need a bigger one
can I mention Martinus of Tours and Sankt Gallen and Benedictus of Nursia and such?
erm...corl... the real god is made out of pure solid gold, you can't eat him, he's not even here
yea you can but there's no need for that yerss
but I wanna show off
Gold God?!?!?! Not eatable God?!?!?!
hey corl! his kids, the devine eclairs are eatable y'know
The Golden Idol is a SEVERE task master!
TOR, yeah I wonder when Jesus is gonna get his own Mavels superhero comic.
yea and what's his super power gonna be? come back from the dead? let ppl love eachother (sounds like cupid)? walk over water (oooh powerful)???
nah Jesus doesn't appeal to young children in a superhero kinda way. noone goes around saying "Jesus is cool"
well...actually... Fire... about those powers
I think that egyptian god (forgot his name, was killed by his bro Seth), would be more mysterious and all to have the ability to return from the dead...
that girl from Captain Planet, y'know that weird save-the-enviroment cartoon series, had a ring with the power of love...
and walk on water... that I can imagine, together with the Milk Inc as themesong
Shall i gather ppl to make my point?
*goes off to find ppl on KMC*
you won't find more than 4
they are long gone so they wont be found period
but you're not a young child
wow, it took me a bit to read all this. but first off, b/f i give you my opinion, i would like to say that all of you amaze me w/ your knowledge of history and philosophy.
I have to admit tho, that i don't agree w/ JC's claim...your digging too deep bud. To me revelations refers to the end times, not something that has already happened. One of its biggest points is Jesus' second coming...and although there are many different views of this (historic premillenialism, dispensational premillenialsim, ect.) i still find it to be a big focus of revelations, and even tho its one of the most confusing and prolly controversial books of the Bible, I think your definately pushing it when you link many separate verses to prove your point.
And if we're counting ppl who think Jesus is divine...you can count me in!
yeah in a party with Winney The Pooh
yeah in a party with Winney The Pooh
Winnie had two parties or was one cancelled?
oh, pick me pick me! I wanna comment on Jezus's second coming
oh yeh? Well so far i c Phoe, Lianslo and me saying that Jesus is 'divine' and i havent even started looking for anyone! *pokes tongue out and grins at yers*
4 that post in Bond I mean
ah me confuzzled. What do u mean?
This is Rina's best friend here (she ambushed my computer so now I'm taking it back). She's been telling me all about this thread and I felt like adding my two cents. Firstly, JESUS IS DIVINE!!!! and I'm not just saying that because she told me to; Im saying it because I believe it.
I cant say that I believe revelation is a refelction of WW1. For starters, revelation is all about the future, and WWI is in the past. You cant take any part of revelation literally, because the entire book is basically written in the form of dreams, prophesies and symbolic... symbols. For instance, Jesus is frequently referred to as a guy with a double edged sword poking out of his mouth, and there are lots of references to twelve "lamp stands" which represent the twelve churches of israel. If you were to take this literally then you wouuld have a guy with a very sore mouth and lots of light in the room..... somehow I dont think that this is what God was trying to convey :P
About the whole "people being marked" thing, theres something in Revelation that says that the people of God will refused to be marked, and that those who arent of God will have the mark of the Devil. What a lot of people believe about this is that the "mark" that the non-Christians will have will be some form of micro-chipping. I'll try to explain how it works... but remember that its just a theory, nothing's proven, although I think that its a pretty good theory.
When Jesus comes again, all the Christians and Children will be taken up to heaven, and those who are left on the earth will be people who dont believe in God. For anyone who becomes Christian AFTER the rapture, life is going to be very hard because the majority of people who are left are going to be very anti-Christian. After the rapture, the anti-Christ will come and he will come in the form of someone who appears to be a great leader. He will come into power and will seem like a wonderful person who no one will realise is really quite evil until it is too late. Kind of like Hitler, but not so loony and much more evil. This Anti-Christ guy will be the one to enforce the micro chipping and this is what is referred to in the bible as the mark of the devil. Anyone who has become christian after the rapture will refuse to get this "mark of the devil" and life will be exteremly hard for them. They will be persecuted and will find it hard to do even simple things such as buying food, because you will need the microchips to do this.
Anyway, thats just one theory of many, Im sure, but I just felt like sharing my view with you. I'm quite sure that WWI wasnt what revelation was referring to, but if you take a look at history, many of the signs that revelation gives are found all throughout history since forever. There have been wars, famines, droughts, natural disasters. I think the reason for this is because Jesus wants to keep us on our toes. He doesnt want us to go "Oh look, the signs that the rapture are starting, lets become hardcore Christians now." He wants us to always be prepared, because he is going to come when we least expect it.
This is what I believe about the book of Revelation.
I know that what is written in the Book of Revelation is all about the future -- Future, by the time it was wirtten. The time covered from the time after the Book was written up to the time of Jesus' coming is considered FUTURE.
As you can see, the events recorded in the Book of Revelation are arranged in a random manner, and are not necessarily in chronological order... depending on how those VISIONS appeared to John.
The Book of Revelation merely shows what will happen to the church of Christ and to God's people after the time it was built in the first century.
The woman in the beast
...who sits in many waters and in seven hills...
The beast out of the earth...
The angel who shouts "Fallen, Fallen, Babylon the Great!"...
The 'wind' and the 'seal' of chapter seven...
The four angels holding the wind...
... and some of these things
were already fulfilled in the world by these times.
how can it be referring to the first world war when the Rapture hasnt happened? but then and again, no one quite knows what revelations contains so u are quite welcome to belive whatever u want to belive . . . .
all the christians go when it's time to heaven? more room for us
alright, this is a bit off topic...but i'm gunna say it anyways
I personally don't believe that we are going to be taken up to heaven...i believe that if you read the bible carefully, you will find that Jesus is going to come down to us, and create a heaven on earth...so...i'm not so sure about the whole micro-chip thing...the theory is kinda cool, but the theory itself takes revelations quite literally, and being that its such a symbolic book, perhaps thats not really what the "mark" is at all...
then the statement should be that I BELIEVE JESUS IS DIVINE, otherwise I would say PROOVE IT
The book of revelation is very similare to other mythologies apocalypsies, it seems like it is a nice mixture of the best of those
This is sort of off-topic but it relates in a way. There is one profecie that is most accurate in the bible. Are you familiar with the Fall of Babylon? i did some reaserch on the internet and i believe that there is enough proof here.
www.duke.edu/~jfk2/truth.html Try to keep an open mind.
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