When did Palpatine become aware of the Clone Army?
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Thus far, it has been our ASSUMPTION that Palpatine ordered the clone Army. But this doesn't make sense. Sifo-dyas ordered the clone army and Sifo-dyas was a KNOWN jedi that died BEFORE the events of TPM. Palpatine was not chancellor before then, so he couldn't have had ANY involvement in the ordering of the clone army. So when/how did Palpatine find out about it?
I have come up with two possible scenarios:
1. Palpatine assumed the identity of a dead jedi and convinced the kaminoians he was the head of the jedi council and ordered the clone army. This satisfies both the notion that Sifo-Dyas WAS a real jedi AND
that Palpatine ordered the creation of the clone army. The problem with this theory is that it is just too convenient and is really not that interesting.
2. Palpatine had NOTHING at all to do with the order to create the clone army, and had no knowledge of its existance until it was revealed in AOTC. he was planning to CREATE HIS OWN army with the passing of the military creation act, or whatever it was called.
It WAS the JEDI who ordered the army created. Either by former head of the jedi council sifo-dyas OR by another jedi taking on his name. In that case, I beleive it was Mace Windu who ordered the army and it was DEFINATELY Mace Windu who deleted Kamino from the records.
Why would Mace do such a thing? SImple. There was the prophecy, and the threat of the Sith. The jedis ability to use the force was diminishing, the dark side was growing stronger, and he knew there were not enough jedi around to keep the peace. he needed an army to help protect, not only the entire galaxy, but the jedi, specifically.
I think this would be an interesting revelation for EPIII, because it would make the Jedi partly responsible for their own demise, even though the actions they took were a result of the Sith threat.
what's wrong with the first one?
the most simple solution to a problem is probably the correct one
ehh I always was of the impression that Palpatine was behind the ordering of the clone army
dont get me wrong, i dont think mace is bad, at all. in AOTC, even yoda decided the jedi should lie to the senate about their diminished ability to use the force. that wasnt WRONG, it was just a means of self-preservation, just like ordering the clone army. the kaminoians never said the republic ordered them, just that the JEDI ordered them FOR THE REPUBLIC. what law is there that says the jedi cant order an army created?
i guess the reason i am doubtful of the first idea, is that i dont think palpatine could have convinced the kaminoians he was legitimately head of the jedi council. only the REAL head of the council could do that.
well, what i was sayin is that yoda could sense wether or not mace was doin something behind his back....
I thought that Sifo Dias was just a mispronnounciation of Sidious by the kamino prime minister. Maybe sidious told the kamino guy that his name was SIDIOUS, but then the kamino guy looked up on the archives to see the list of jedi masters and mistook his identity for sifodyas
Nah, I doubt it. Kamino seemed out of touch anyway- they did not even knoe Sifo-Dyas was dead. They have no list of Jedi to look up.
Ush, who do you think ordered the clones and how?
I have no definitive answer, of course; this is always an issue that has been left very mysterious. But I like to think the simple answer is most likely- Dooku did all the work, and either he or Sidious impersonated a recently dead Master to do so.
But maybe not, I really do not know.
we don't know for certain who in the jedi order is the traitor. also, the events surrounding the jedi massacre in episode III will make it painfully clear that palpatine was more than aware of the clones
Yeah, come on people. Of COURSE Palpatine knew about the clones. He's in control of everything by this time. Anybody who can cloud the view of that many Jedi is obviously in control of what is going on. Let's not forget the quote from ROTJ:
"Everything that has transpired has done so according to my plan."
I think "everything" is all-inclusive.
the clone troopers were programmed with a failsafe that only palpatine could activate. With one word from palpatine, each trooper froze, and turned on his jedi general. . so, he was involved from day 1.
QUOTE: "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my plan."...I think "everything" is all-inclusive.
Much that happened in the movies was not part of Palpatines Plan. In fact, much of what happens is people THWARTING his plan. Palpatine intended for Amidala to be killed on Naboo, or Tatooine for that matter. Do you think Palpatine intended for Darth Maul to be killed by Obi-wan? We have no reason to beleive Palpatine knew about Anakin before TPM, either. What about the first death star's destruction? Did Palpatine plan that? Or luke's escaping from Bespin?
Palpatine did not PLAN all of that. He is a megolomiacial maniac and he was making a grandeous statement showing his "overconfidence," just like luke said. Palpatine did not plan half of what happened. He merely took advantage of situations that were presented to him. He was an opportunist.
Something that struck me is that NO effort is made to kill Padme in AOTC after she leaves Coruscant. Which I guess was the idea- but it kinda makes Anakin's role there seem pointless. Jango didn't bother trying again, he just went home.
I mean, it was a very dull sequence on Naboo in AOTC. Another assassination attempt might have livened things up.
But yes indeed. The prequel trilogy is, in many ways, the story of the Sith improvising their plans as time goes by as things go wrong with what they set up. Even so, Palpatine shows a great power to predict and plan events. It is either very ironic or not even slightly ironic (depending on your point of view) that the person whose actions he could not predict were Vader's- we can be sure that Palpatine was not so stupid as to think his Apprentice could never turn against him, that is the Sith way. But Vader is on the Dark Side and his ations were hard to predict, and by the time he turned back Palpatine was busy doing the good old fashioned "Villain so flushed with victory he does not notice what is going on around him" trick...
That would be so staggeringly dumb of them...
But hardly the point., What I meant was, plotwise, the reason for Anakin being with Padme became moot. It just became an excuse to have the two of them canoodle during the middle of the film. I would have preferred it if Anakin had also had to carry out his misison at the same time.
perhaps padme doesn't like big bodyguards as BF
QUOTE:"so, there couldn't be a new assasination attempt cause they were tricked into believing padme was still on Coruscant."
Palpatine was the one who wanted Anakin to take Padme to Naboo. If he wanted Padme dead, he could have arranged that, easily. He was not tricked.
I would propose that Palpatine and Dooku innitially wanted Padme dead because she was opposing the military creation act. Palpatine could have blamed her death on Dooku, it would have created an uproar, the Senate would have voted the Chancellor emergency powers and everything would have played out exactly as it did in the movie.
However, since the assassination attempts both failed, Palpatine realized he had an opportunity. He didnt need Padme dead - just out of the picture. And we have no reason to beleive Palpatine knew of Anakins feelings for Padme BEFORE he was reunited with her in AOTC. At that point, he sensed Anakins feelings for her, and knew he had an opportunity to get Padme out of the way, with ANAKIN. Anakin alone, without any other Jedi watching him, would allow for anakins "corruption" to start with his loving another, something forbidden to jedi.. Palpatine was an opportunist. He saw the chance to have his cake and eat it too: Get padme out of his hair, and start anakin on his path to the dark side.
I accept the logic perfectly. Although I doubt Palpatine had much to directly do with the assassination anyway- because he knew, obviously, that Padme used decoys! No assassin under his control would have blown up the wrong person. Tyrannus was running that operation and it was deputised down on many levels. Palpatine had little reason to kill Amidala as presented in the film- Dooku only wanted to do it as a sop to the Trade Federation, and I think Palpatine does not micro-manage.
However, regardless of all that... my point is not that it makes no sense, but that I think it would have been better dramatically if Anakin had had to be performing his mission as well in that segment of the film. As in, I think the film would have been better if the threats to her life had continued! Just my opinion though.
The One Part 2
The love story had to happen at some point. <SIGH>
I don't remember it that well anymore but didn't palpatine asked mace to get OB1 to protect here, and later when they went to Naboo Yoda said "our judgement she must respect"? hinting that it was their own decission?
I agree with Ush, the drama in the original trilogies dealt with love stories unfolding DURING action. Thats where i think the prequel trilogy falls flat in some respects. GL gives us either/or. He doesnt mesh the two, and i think, ultimately, that is why the prequels dont have the magic of the originals.
I don't think Palpy is exactly pleased with gunray after episode 1... He probably had nothing to do with that one. i'm guessing that gunray will realize this in episode 3...
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