Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

I was reading some posts in the forum, and I was thinking about something... It seems like people these days take offense way too easily. Either that, or everybody is just so damn afraid of pissing people off that they're constantly paranoid that some person, somewhere, is going to be "offended" by something they say. Like censors, for example... I was talking to some people on another forum, they were really sensitive about this kind of thing. I said the f word once and they both practically exploded. Or this whole "holiday season" thing--you're not allowed to say "what did you get for Christmas" anymore, because there might be a person in the room who doesn't celebrate Christmas. Gee, if I were Jewish I would really get upset if somebody asked me that.

I'm not saying there's no need for things like censors. But IMHO it's been carried a little too far recently.

I agree, there's no more trust in common decency.

You gotta take stuff with a grain of salt. People don't know you. It a fact so they are going to make assumptions and some might be wrong. Correct them and move on!

I again fail to see the connection between this and philosophy ...

oh wait, the great Kubowsky once said:
"I don't care what others think, I know I'm right"

I actually dont care if people are offended about things I say or post. I have to express my feelings truthfully, if I offend someone in that process though luck.

I love offending squares. If theirs a Jewish guy in the room and I know he's jewis, I'll ask him what he's getting for Xmas just to spite him.

Okay, not really. But I offend people all the time, and I really don't care. If they want to be offended over what someone else has to say then that is their problem that they need to deal with. I couldn't care less.

For instance, I was watching this special on the comedian Andrew "Dice" Clay just a few minutes ago, and they did a segment on his "sexism" in his act. And I couldn't help but notice that all the women who were offended and calling him sexist were women no man would ever want to have sex with in the first place. They were fat, homely and cow-like. This seems to be the norm, you don't see many hot women complaining about sexual harrasment, it's always these Oprah drones who eat Ben and Jerry's ice cream a little too much and become mamothly obese and grotesque. Then she catches some guy looking at her and claims it's sexual harrasment. No it's not sexual harrasment, you just got so large that you're in front of people no matter which way they look. It's these same glorified cows that complain about Howard Stern when he says the word "crap". Yet it's okay for Oprah to explain what "tossing the salad" means. What a load of crap.

See, I bet that offended some people, yet I don't care. Censorship blows.

heheh..that's the spirit!



yes revan, that's true..however..you should simply not give a damn.
SOme people are really so obsessed about his virtual community and their place in it that they are extremely affraid to lose it. that's partly why they overreact over such matters.

Just don't play along and do your thing..

People find all kinds of things offencive. Mostly stuff that are taboo...

Also, censorship is shitty... most people get offended by the Grotesque art...which i dont really get

god gave us free will and our constitution gives us the freedom of speech .


if you dont like it , tough , get over it and move on .

We should just kill all ethnic groups in a war!! The KKK is right let's just kill all those that are not anglos. Let's just massacre all blacks, asians, hispanics and mental handicaps in the planet. Death to all those that are not of pure race!!!


^ Now some people would find that offensive. Others won't even care for those comments. And some would agree with that. But the message is very clear! It promotes violence agaisn't those that are different than others. Would that be consider offensive? It depends on the individual. Being offensive is variable. What you consider offensive other people will consider it NOT offensive. So who is to say is that is offensive or not?

i've been always thinking i said it first

yes that would be considered offenseive..but that's not the issue. the issue is why offensive bothers us.
i just might have another offensive line in return, to reply to that quote.

maybe that's what a person really thinks..therefore telling us something about him and how he's like. it's shouldn't be censored..because that person would still be the same..without us knowing about it..

yea, ive noticed people get offended way too easy here, ive had to hold my tongue quite a lot.
my humour and style of trying etc is alot different to the majority of people here i guess, but alot of the stuff i say is hardly offensive in the slightest and obviously a joke...yet people seem to get offended... ah well, i wont change what i type, ill just limit when i type it lol

Yes, you and I (and other ppl) find that comment offensive. But the person who wrote that, and others whom agree with that person don't find it offensive. The point that I was trying to make is that where do we draw the line on what is offensive? What you and I may consider offensive will not be the same for another person. So who gets to censor the other person? Should I censor that person for expressing his opinion? (even thought it is a message of hate) Who am I to censor another person when I myself has a different opinion?

offensive is when the other person gets offended. but that's not important. in MY opinion a person has the right to offend, and i have the right to be offended....but that's in spite of any possibility of good social relations between the two.
and such relations are what these boards (any boards) promote...that's why they're prohibbited

what the **** are you ******** around for here?
have I don't something wrong to you, you stupid ****** ***** **** *****
you just go ********* **** ****** **** !


just kidding of course

yers , you are to funny .

What if in allowing his comments to spread you cause hatred to be incited, and people to be hurt or killed?

Censorship can have perfectly valid uses in a society, and insufficient censorship- perhaps best expressed as over-liberalism- has in fact destroyed societites.

I'm just curious but what societys are you talking about?

Censorship is not valid in any ocasion. With the only exception for the right to our private affairs and at some State affairs wich can dismiss the public opinion.

A society who survives by censorship and does not respect the most common rights of free will and information deserves to be destroyed.

A decent and equal society doesnt need to be afraid of the anger and if it is the own source of that anger doesnt solve nothing with censorship. Better to try to solve the reason of the anger.

Censorship is the most rudimentary way of lying.

The Weimar Republic was destroyed because it gace free platform to all comers.

I fundamentally disagree with you, Corlindel. In fact, I think that extremely naive. Censorship sensibly applied is vital to a society. Though to extend that to think that I mean a society should 'survive on censorship', implying that is all it ever does, is very misleading.

Agreed, some cencorship is necessary. Were it not for cencorship there would be people taking shits on eachother on network TV.

Incidentally, lying is vital for a society as well. Sorry, but it is.

It depends of various factors and from society to society: even "incidentally".

But always as an exception to the rule.

Your reply is always welcome, even if I disagree

That is the mentioned exception of "private affairs and private life"

And this quoted issue is more about public and private interest in information than censorship.

But the right answer for that is not censorship but civics and, as last answer, civil and criminal courts.

We are all a product of our society, but we do not have to conform with lameless results of it. So, and again, censorship is not a solution but an handicap wich hides the problem.

People get offended at taboos also. Everything that is a major taboo, offends people, however that may not necesseraly spread hateret, yet it is still cencored.

But the question is WHO should apply the censorship? I understand that the majority in society (such as in a democracy) would apply the rule on the citizens, but does it mean it will deprive them of their freedom of speech and opinion?

As much as I detest groups like the Neo Nazis and the KKK they are still part of society. A good citizen obeys the laws of the state and also contributes by paying his taxes. As long as these individuals contribute to the commonwealth of the state they are allowed to speak their mind (even if their opinion is controversial or even discriminatory)

The government can only stop those kind of individuals is if they BREAK the law. For example things like murder, rape, theft, or any other crime that's the only time they can be arrested or prosecuted. Can the government censor their freedom of speech? Maybe regulated but NOT censor them. I know this sounds awful (and Trust me it bothers me) but there is nothing that can be done unless they break the law. So censorship in their case cannot work.

Censorship...we had lots of discussions about this in government class.

The thing is, in the US at least, what is considered obscene (and therefore should be censored) is very vague. In fact, the defition of obscenity is, "What would the average person, judging community values, find obscene?" That is verbatim what our teacher told us and what our book said. Now can anyone tell me what a load of crap that is? According to that, if ONE person gets offended by it, it can be censored. That's bullshit.

Now don't get me wrong, I understand that some censorship is usually needed, but that's only in matters of national security. But people's opinions...that shouldn't be censored. If someone gets offended by what they read/watch on TV/hear on the radio, well, too bad. No one's making them read it/watch it/listen to it, they are of their own choice.

Me, I don't worry about offending people. I just speak my mind and oh well if someone doesn't like what I say.

Offending people can be good as well. It makes them think more about a topic that they wish to aviod or ignore.

Indeed. There is, however, a limit to how far you can go. If you tick somebody off too badly, they won't listen to what you're saying at all.

Yea you need to find a balance

should be considered dangerous, a group of people (:rolleyes once got an entire nation to share views like that. And we all kno what that lead to

A subject to discuss under a sociological and antropological thread

making a point that views like that would be considered offensive by a vast majority of the population, if not well then put on your uniforms boys

If freedom of speech incites hate or violence I think that is a good cause for censorship. I don't think they have that law in the US but they certainly have it in belgium. You can have any opinion you want, but you can't spread stuff that will incite hate, violence or rascism. If that deprives ppl of freedom of speech too bad for them.

As to your question about who determines censorship in belgium it is determined by law so in theory it is the majority who determines censorship, but hardly anyone cared about it in belgium until some extreme-right party organizations got convicted for spreading rascism.

Then ppl (and only a small portion) started to care.

Actually, there are censorship laws against speech that incites violence in the US. It's called 'fighting words', and basically what it means is if someone goes out and says "Go kill so-and-so people!" and someone actually does it, then the person who said that in the first place can be held responsible. Another little thing I learned in government class (yes, I loved that class).

aaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhh civics

Whoa!

Democracy is NOT the tyranny of the majority! That is mob rule, not representative government. One of the roles of such government is tro PROTECT minorites.

Incitement to racial hatred is something worth censoring., People have, and will, die if you do not. Some messages MUST be opposed by liberal democracies via means of legislation. TO say we should not because people should be convinced by argument is akin to saying we should have no laws, people should just be persuaded to act in the right way. It doesn't work- society must sometimes be forced.

Hmmm censorship? I suppose it's like anything in life it has its place but a balance has to be found. Too much censorship and there will be oppression, too little and things will spiral out of control in to chaos.

If everyone had their own way everyone else would follow them but people have the right to their individual views and beliefs so that could never happen.

Governments/societies usually have laws that try to produce a common ground in which everyone can have their say without being threatening and not feel threatened for what they believe.
This is what censorship is for!
In my opinion however censorship is quite aften taken too far in the name of political correctness (but hey that what I believe and it my right to believe that so there! )

Personaly I have my own values, taken from my upbringing by my parents and from what I've learnt in life. Because of this, where my children are concerned I have my own form of censorship - what they can and cant do/say ect. This is to protect them while they are young and vulnerable. When they are older I will not stop them from deciding what they want to believe, I will only guide/advise them. Is that wrong?

NO AND I WILL BE EXTREMELY OFFENDED BY ANYONE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE!!!!! (joke... )

to take offence at someone's comments or points of view is a person who lacks convictions...

Democracy is nothing but a theory being tested by our current politics. Also if it doesn't become the tyranny of the majority it might become an oligarchy. Democracy much like other political idealism is an illusion.



I absolutely agree! Racial hatred should end! But is not happening and never will!




So are you saying that in order to keep Racial tensions down the Government should censor those individuals? But isn't that giving the Government more power to censor the citizens? You mention that Society must be forced? Why not educated them? Teach Racial Tolerance to the citizens rather than to force them to obey laws by legislagion.

One thing amazes me.

People are getting TV secered and books because they can be ''offencive'' yet bible is the most widely read book and is full of murder, violence and sex, the very same things that are considered offencive and are censered.

"So are you saying that in order to keep Racial tensions down the Government should censor those individuals? But isn't that giving the Government more power to censor the citizens? You mention that Society must be forced? Why not educated them? Teach Racial Tolerance to the citizens rather than to force them to obey laws by legislagion."

Why not live in a society without Government where everyone contributes to the community out of altruism?

Because it doesn't WORK. Obviously education is a good idea but if you rely on it to make good citizens of everyone you'll get burned. When you cannot rely on people, despite educative efforts, to not do horrible things, they have to be forced or everyone suffers. It's one of the basic purposes of Government. Legislation in this matter- in the form of laws that make inciting racial hatred illegal- is just and necessary.

"Democracy is nothing but a theory being tested by our current politics. Also if it doesn't become the tyranny of the majority it might become an oligarchy. Democracy much like other political idealism is an illusion. "

Huh? You'll have to explain that as it appears to be babble. Representative democracy- which is miles away from majority tyranny- is not remotely like an oligarchy either.

And how the heck do you mean illusion? Democracy is not an illusion at all, it is an existing concept. The only thing that might be illusiory is your definition of it, which likely simply makes your definition wrong.

The UK would actually fall under the definition 'oligarchy' but that is a completely different term to 'democracy' ; the respective translations being 'rule of the few' and 'power to the people.' Witness eg the Mcpherson report's demand that people should be arrested for words uttered within the confines of their home! High time for Magna Charta II!

Of course it doesn't work Ushgarak! There must be some time of leadership in any society. My point was that we shouldn't allow Government to have all the censorship they want. Education isn't the only solution, but sometimes is the only solution to educate people on issues of racism. Laws only tell you what not to do. But education goes much more farther than that. It develops a character and a more educated indiviual.



It is only a theory! Democracy hasn't been effective in 3rd World countries where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Even countries that drop their totalitarian dictatorships systems haven't even develop as rapidly as expected. Oligarchies continue to expand in those countries to the point in which labor unions cannot even defend their workers. Democracy has proven to work in countries where the economy can be stabilize. But even in those countries certain corruptions do occur. What's a good example? How about the US and Enron. Democracy is pretty big, but we still have corruption in the business section which is the backbone of the nation.

Lil bitchiness> Too true. You find incest, bigamy, murder, cruelty, intolerance, insults to women, sex and foul language galore in the Bible.
And children should read that??
Hypocracy!

censors fukin' piss me off. everyone these days are too damn soft. my friends girlfriemd broke up with him because he called her a bich. see what I'm taling about, all the cuss words i use in my fukin' post are being stared out. adults these days have raised a bunch of wimps, and pussies

well it is a good thing you see what you are yourself so we dont have to tell you

Thats why KMC is so fu.ckin great. You can say pretty much any damn thing you want, and have it expressed to any one who reads it. I totally agree though. I cant speak out side of America, but i know it seems that we as a society have become way to preoccupied with other peopls feelings. As long as you are not intentially trying to degrate or offend someone then you should be able to speak your mind. there are other situations where restrictions should be put, but it's getting to the point in America where you cant even say that Coke is your favorite soda, because it may offend pepsi lovers.

coke is better

Yeah, well you are a douche.










just kidding...






no really though, if you think coke is better you suck.

Like in Family Guy:

Peter: Jesus Christ comes to Earth to wreck a terrible havoc on Christmas so we have to sing carols to lull him to sleep..

Man 1: That's outrageous! I have to do something.

Man 2: There's nothing you can do.

Man 1: I guess I'll just have to develop a sense of humour.

-AC

coke is way better in my opinion
pepsi is alrite every once in a while.......
Coke is classic and alot better tasting in my opinion...

Well why people get offended -

Basically we all have a certain perception of ourselfs - if someone tells something to us that contradicts the way we view ourselfs - we get offended.

Thats asically it in a nut shell, although its a little bit complex than that,

we have become a society of wusses. nobody is honest anymore. everybody sugar coats sh!t. starting with this political correctness bullsh!t. what do you think midgets were called before "little people?" let's get over what each other thinks and start being real.

Yep, thank god for shows like south park who go out of their way to offend as many idiots as possible. God bless that show.

love that show. timmah is the best character _southpark_

I agree, Political Correctness is on the whole not needed.

We sugarcoat things for people to save them embarrassment, just like we hate to be embarrassed ourself.

Do you like to tell someone how ugly or stupid they are? Its good to be honest, but you cannot always be brutal about it - you just cannot.

Lil, you're ugly and stupid and smell like cheese!


hmm....didn't feel too good....probably because none of it is true.

but you are what you are and i'm sure you know that you are. people saying that is like a second opinion. i know i'm sometimes an attetion whore, i know i'm annoying, i know i'm fat. if you come up to me saying that i'm fat trying to piss me off just won't work. if you wanna piss me off, tell me chinese food is getting banned.

the other thing also is that we are so insecure that what people thinks matter when they shouldn't. the fact is i'm living my life to the fullest and i can't be bothered to learn every other name we label each other so we don't offend. instead of getting offended, slap that motherf*cker upside the head and extend the birdie, buy him/her a drink then move on.

Can you become offended by an offense of an offense?

No, if you are going to say to someone who is blond and dumb that they are dumb blond, and she doesnt necessarily see it as that.

Not all people that are fat see themselves as fat, and not all that are ignorant see themselves as ignorant.

true. just look at jessica simpson

and those people are in great denial. ignorance is just different. ignorant f*ckers need to get slammed back to earth for a taste of reality. but then again, you can only do so much.

People are too easily offended nowadays, i hate having to watch every second word that i say, political correctness has gone too far imo. what ever happened to common sense?

I knew you will eventually agree with me swank its unavoidable.

it is inevitable. it is providence. it is the swank swank

Even a simple Pun is taken seriously !! If caused offence...then tough...we all are here to voice opinions and while i contribute i do not take it too seriously. some people on forums expect total veneration of some kind as if their life depends on it. If someone gets busted up on a couple of lines on a rectangular screen in front of them well stuff them.

Its not easy to speak your mind and i really appreciate the effort some people put in a thread extending themselves into lenghty posts sharing information and toughts BUT every now and then they should realize that we are all different, with different attitudes. thinking that life, everywhere, is black or white is just an illusion making distinctions on their personal morals of right and wrong.

There are only different shades of grey