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Ok I am confused on the changes for the DVD version of the OT. Why can't Lucas just leave the scene the way it was shot in 77? I personally liked Solo blowing Greedo into oblivion without Greedo even getting a shot off. Made him seem dangerous. What do you guys think?

i have the clip of the new cgi shot for the dvd, and it looks 100% better than the last one. if you want to see it let me know and i can send you it

Apparentley it was thought that Han looked a little too ruthless shooting Greedo first. What's wrong with a little ruthlessness?..that's what I say. Han was never meant to be perfect. It's kill or be killed in the dangerous circles he ran in.

George got old and decided it made Han look a little too much like a bad guy.

I think the problem here is that some people (big george himself these days it seems) think that it looks like Han shoots him in cold blood. I remember the first time I saw it (in a cinema on its release, yes Im that old) it seemed both fair and clever - Greedo made it plain Han wasn't going to survive the meeting - so he got shot....

I dont care how much they alter the effects, if greedo shoots first then it's BULLCRAP. Sorry george, but it is.

God, you people have been having this debate for 7 years. Why do you still give a fuk? Do you think people fifty years from now are going to give a fuk?

yup

It took me 30 seconds to find out that the topics YOU think are worth discussing with regards to the SW saga include

listing your 10 favorite vehicles in order of coolness

and

commenting on who deserves to be on the PACKAGING of the DVD release.

And you want us to feel bad because we are discussing fundamental changes being made to the characters and the film? Go jerk off over your freezeframe screengrabs of princess amidala you sad little geek.

ah come on lads, lets just stick to the subject at hand here

since I only got here in May, I missed the last 6 years and 11 months years of discussion. It's been 27 years since since I first saw that footage and actually I do care 27 years later that it stays the way it was originally shot for the DVD release. I apologize for not doing a more thorough search for this particular thread.

I can understand your point. Sometimes it's better left the way it was originally done, it keeps that special feel alive. The improved Greedo scene does look much better, yes, but it would have been cool as well if they left it the way it was, I didn't have a problem with it.

SMX

I can assure you that I still won't be talking about any of those things7 years later! 15 years from now go find some 12 year old kid and ask him "who should of shot first: Han, or Greedo?" The look that kid will give you will be priceless. Why, because nobody will give a sh!t then. Who's the geek now?

technically, we all are cause we're on an internet forum talking about a movie

OB1-adobe, nobody said you had to say anything if you didn't want to. We are not here to somehow hurt you, so get over it.

True enough.

SMX

OB1 I think the reason it matters to me is that I was 16 when I first saw SW and it had a huge effect on me.....and THAT is why is DOES matter to me 27 years later. I'm far from a geek, never seen anything beyond the movies and only just now started reading the books. But for me seeing that movie was kinda of an escape. Oh how I wished I could leap from star system to star system back then. And today 27 years later that movie still makes me feel like a kid again and it is special to me. I can understand your impatience with discussing the topic but there are those of us that these kind of things matter to and I would hope for the same respect I give the people who discuss the fighter planes etc which I could care less about but I dont post negatively to. It's just not my thing and i accept it and go on. My thanks to those of you that have cleared up what I wanted to know. My version of the OT doesnt have Greedo shooting first and it certainly wasnt in the original movie I saw in 77 so I was confused. old people dont ya know

I have no grudge with any of you guys, I'm just sick of this debate thats all. Yeah, I know what the hell was GL thinking when he changed it, but what can you do. Didn't mean to cause a stink on your thread Jedi Priestess, cuz I hated it when people have done that in mine, and then it got closed. Back to the topic. I saw the new one that is floating around. Thanks Rage! Yeah it looks better I guess. I wonder how many versions of it did ILM make. There is probably a version out there where Han buys Greedo a drink, and then it cuts to a scene where Greedo is all drunk and complaining about his boss Jabba. Then Greedo passes out puking all over himself, and Han walking away saying "Sorry about the mess."

now THAT is a scene that should be in the ultimate, super shiny archive final super special edition!! btw, no probs re the footage, happy to share it

er does that come with the secret Jedi decoder ring?

no, that comes with the ultra special jedi robe in supersmall edition

ah jawa size no doubt

Don't forget the plush Ewoks and Jar Jar!

On topic, it's a better scene when Han shoots first, although as a kid, I always heard two blasts and assumed that Greedo had at least gotten a shot off.

Hmm Ok I didnt bother to read everything but in Star Wars:Jedi Outcast didnt Kyle Katarn finished off Greedo??

Dude if you really aren't bothered about discussing the subject at hand then just don't post anything in the thread, if people with to discuss this subject then let them they're doing no harm to anyone.

Corran, he apologized, let it go. No need to reagitate the argument.

Yeah, OK.

partypooper

^^^^
rabble rouser!

I wonder how George can be opposed to the movie industry colorizing the old black and white classics while he deliberately changes a scene in one of his own movies.

I didn't get a chance to give my opinion earlier, so I will now

GREEDO SHOOTING FIRST IS UTTER BOGUS. There is no way you can tell me that from that point-blank range that Greedo would miss--there is also no way Han's going to dodge the blast; that's sheer stupidity. The fact Han was able to get out of there intact shows him he knows what he's doing, and if Greedo gets the shot off, it shows he's just a lucky guy (which we all know he is, but there's considerable skill mixed in with that). And the comment made about him shooting first makes it look like he shot in cold blood? Guess what, it should be like that. At this point, Han's not a good guy, and he's a fringe guy, living should be his first priority.

I agree with Spearhead on those points. Also, (well it was kind of touched on already, but) it seems to go against Han's nature to let let Greedo shoot first. Han has been in some scraps before, and he and Chewie know how to take care of themselves. I wouldn't exactly call it cold-blooded either. Greedo was pretty much telling Han to say his prayers, and Han was just crafty enough to slowly unholster his weapon, sheesh he was fighting for his very life at gunpoint....anyway, it's all been said before so...

as I said.....

Some day some Lucas off spring will release the theatrical OT's on DVD and we'll all be happy with the original masterpiece. For some reason Lucas feels justified by that line he keeps referring to: "Great films aren't finished, just abandoned." So I guess he has to keep altering his films to avoid this appararent curse...

I hear there's an alternate version out there where Greedo collapses from a heart attack ...

What about the one where he gets thsi great big black weight saying "10,000 lbs." on his head?

meep meep?

He won't VROOOM I'm afraid.

Personally I couldnt give a damn who shot first. Either way is fine by me. I dont see why you idiots argue about it. Why, just cuz you want han to be a badass. He's a badass without shooting first, and there are enough badasses in starwars as it is.

you make a good point.... we should all get killed now for discussing this

...and out of all the debating....no one has commented on what an F'n BUTCHER JOB LFL did to that scene.

han shot first
greedo shot first.
i honestly don't give a shit

but for christ's sake, make it PRESENTABLE!!!

they just took his image on the film and scooted it over. his image just jumps left in the span of one frame. its such a hack job! it just looks like he teleported 3 inches...disgusting editing.
i just want to vomit when i see it. i cant believe GL saw that scene and said "yeah thats good enough".

the thing that will always make the scene dumb is HOW THE HELL DO YOU MISS SOMEBODY A FOOT FROM YOU?! That's the only thing that bugs me. I really don't care if he shoots first or he digitally makes them arm wrestling, but as PVS said, make it presetable. And no matter how good the cgi in that scene gets, the question remains--how did Greedo miss? I mean, its not like he's a stormtrooper for Yoda's sake. Now a stormtrooper digitally inserted there, then I might believe you could miss.

Yeah, how could Greedo miss, he had his blaster pointed at Han all the time and shoots first... impressive. Jabba really sent out Jerk no.1 to collect his money.

cause he didn't want to kill han I take

It just makes Han Look like an incompetent. In the origional series he was this smuggler and rouge who knew how to look after himself, by the third one he's stepping on branches and being punched by stormtroopers.

Anyhow you could always launch into a in depth (and of course ridiclous, like all 'break-down essay's are) discussion on the commentry George has made by changing that scene, the 'Good Guys' cant be seen to be shooting first

But Han wasn't supposed to be a good guy. He was supposed to be a jerk. Lucas said so himself.

Something along the lines of "Han was the opposite of Luke" - it was his way of creating two characters that would cause conflict with each other.

He had Han shoot first for a damn good reason.

apperently he found a better reason

Yeah, his reasoning being: "It'll look more expensive this way"

That's dumb, I'm sorry but that is not why. He said he just thought it was too violent. He felt it more responsible to not advocate senseless murder. he does want these to be kid's movies in theory. Now I agree Han should shoot first, but it had nothing to do with looking "more expensive".

Man, I was being sarcastic. Don't you ever watch South Park?

ALLLLLLL the time. You wanna get high?

sorry though. I didnt' realize. (by the way, I'm a huge batman fan as well, love the siggy)

It's still self defence isnt it.

Greedo says "Ok, now im going to shoot you"
Han blasts him. Walks away like a badass

Makes sense to me, i watched these films umpteenth times since i was 4, and i still haven't shot anyone unprovoked with a C96 Mauser pistol

Now, in your best comic book guy voice, say:
that was a blastech DL-44 pistol, not a mauser. Now get out of my store if you're not going to buy anything.

But seriously, even little I never saw anything wrong with that, I always thought Han was in some kind of danger, and he got himself out of it. I always thought it made his transition to all out good guy more dramatic that he started out rough and tough but gradually became a caring hero of the rebellion... oh well. Never again.

Yeah, I always thought of it as self-defense too, even though he did shoot first.

Han is an experienced Space Pirate, even when I was like, 7, I knew that Han "knew" Greedo was going to shoot him.

Greedo was pointing a laser gun at him, telling him that he's gonna take a Bounty on him, and Han shoots because thats the ONLY way he can walk out of the bar.

Even a toddler could understand that, his situation was hopeless. Han was backed into a corner (literally) and he acted.

The more you think about it, the more stupid Greedo shooting first becomes.

Greedo didn't need to shoot first in order to prove Han was in mortal danger.

Cops shoot people who hold guns and havent fired a single shot - doesn't make them cold blooded at all.

The only way they could possibly make it less "barbaric" was to make Han shoot the pistol out of Greedos hand. But making Greedo shoot first defies all logic.

shoot the gun out of his hand.... christ, I hope Lucas isn't reading this, he just might. But yeah, it is silly. I guess I just have to get used to it. We should start a support group.

"Hi, my name is Mephisto. And for the twenty odd years I've been watching Star Wars, I believed Han shot first. But now he doesn't. Now I can't hold a job, and I get yelled at on the street for holding up signs saying Han shot first..."

Haha, ah my silly friend, it is indeed a Blastech DL-44 however, the pistol that had plastik bits added is infact the Mauser C96 'Broomhandle' pistol in the calibre 7.63mm, it has a 10 round integral magazine loaded by stripper clip located infront of the trigger guard, another interesting feature is that the holster is made of wood and can be attached to the grip to form a butt stock, the sight's are graduated out to 1,000 feet, but that's quite beyond the capability of the 7.63mm catridge.

I can't blast anyone with a DL-44 blaster, but i could with a C96 Mauser

Here's my rendition.

yeah i have to say that that greedo thing where they made han's head jump is really cheap looking

yeah, I know Jerico. I was just makin' a joke. His was a mauser. The stormtroopers and rebel troopers have some modified machine gun from WWII.
IG-88 has a modified machine gun from the real military. Leia's gun in ROTJ, the pistol is a modified handgun from, I think, the british military. Her gun in the ANH is also some real life hand gun. They all were. I just meant that a super nerd would want you to call it by its "in universe" name. It was supposed to be funny.

And the OT lightsaber handles were flash tubes off old cameras. And the long/thin stormtrooper rifle, like the one chewie uses at the begining of the detention block shoot out, is actually a long machine gun with to fold up legs at the end that unfold to make a stand so you can lay down and shoot people. But they never unfolded them in the films obviously. The stormtrooper rifles have a retractable butt on them, but that's never used either...

I know, but can't look ignorant on the internet!

The Stormtrooper's guns, as well as (i believe) the rebels are Sterling sub machine guns, the gun that replaced the Sten after WW2.

The long machine gun you mention is the German MG-34, the world's first mass produced General Purpose Machine Gun.

The very large blaster one of them uses in ANH is a Lewis gun, from the first world war and the Rebel Hoth soldiers guns are badly butchered Sturmgewehr 44's (StG44, MP43, MP44)

I had a look at the dvd, and i believe, though im definitly not certain that it's a Beretta pistol of some sort, tho i'll check

Having had a look on the internet and providing the replica's are accurate her pistol in ANH was a .22 calibre target pistol, in Endor i believe it's a Beretta but i'd need a picture

I think you're right, it was a beretta, but they took the slide off, put a longer "barrel" tube and the crap on the end of the barrel.

What were we supposed to be talking about again? Oh yeah, Han and Greedo. yeah, it sucks. Need anyone say more?

I think what GL did to Han with Greedo was totally inconsistent and just plain stupid because it begs to question all the other times that Han shot first:

On the Death Star in New Hope, Han has no problem shooting an alien in the garbage heap once they were out and safe. Perhaps in the special special edition, the snakey garbage alien will have a blaster and try to shoot Han first. Han will jerk back and return fire, ala Greedo scene -- because we can't just kill an alien in cold blood.

Also, on Bespin, Han tries to shoot an unarmed Vader when they first meet. In the future edition, Boba will take a shot at him first.

Han, I'm afraid, turned incompetant in the ROTJ as someone said, (the dumbest reaction to "he's my brother," ever shown on film) but after the Greedo "improvement," Han lost even more cred as a badass smuggler.

Agreed, Lucas' senility is damaging Star Wars.

Lucas is star wars you..., he can do what the hell he wants

Indeed. he is altering the deal, pray he doesn't alter it any further!

I can't imagine GL in a police shooting review as the chief.

GL: So did the suspect point a gun at you?
Officer: Uh, yes.
GL: But he didn't shoot first? Yet you shot him?
Officer: I was in fear for my life.
GL: That is not the kind of officer that this community needs. You are
fired! You are reckless!
Officer: But he had a gun pointed at me?
GL: But you could have dodged his first bullet and then returned fire. Nobody would question your motives then.
Officer: Are you nuts?
GL: What? Don't you know who I am? I'm GL! Now GET OUT!

Hehe. It's balls, Greedo goes, "It's too late" "I've been looking forward to this for a long time"

ie. Get ready to be shot. So Han according to George's attack of logik has to then wait to be shot at, at point blank range before he can shoot back. Good Game George.

I don't think Lucas should be changing the origional series, he is changing fundamental aspects of a film from 30 years ago, its bullshit, he dosen't even know anything about it he dosen't care, it's just a cash cow for him.

That's what's so funny about that scene, it was ok almost 30 yrs ago, why is it too violent now? that's so dumb. That's just how the world is now I guess, I got these friends who let their daughters (9 and 12) watch anything unless it has sex. They let them watch Troy with us, but were concerned when their was nudity. I was like, you're not concerned that they just saw brad pitt throw a sword THROUGH a guy's head? but you don't want them seein' t&a? WTF?! people are so backward.

It's just a baffling subject. Lucas has told us time and time again that Han starts out as a callous, shallow, selfish pirate - yet he completely removes his initial demeanor by not letting him just fry Greedo.

Oh - and it also creates a plot hole:

(Jabba scene)

Jabba: "Why did you go and fry poor Greedo?"

If you were Han wouldn't you say "Er........he SHOT at me you fat tub of crap!"

It was obvious that word got round of Han killing Greedo in the bar, but it's too obviously linked with the ORIGINAL cut. Why didn't Jabba know why Greedo was killed? The stories were obviously that Han just shot him, which he did, originally.

*Adopts the comicbookguy voice*

Worst. Edit. Ever.

I concure. Now please leave, this is not a library...

GL's daughter is influencing the films, for crying out loud, like naming Jar Jar. His daughter probably asked him, "Why did Han kill Greedo?" GL wrings his hands..."I'll fix that honey, don't you worry, and make lots of money in the process for your college tuition."

college?? that little brat wont have to work a day in her life. Unless GL is greedier than we thought and gets buries with his millions....

They are Lucas' movies and he can do what he likes.
BUT, we don't have to like it, and we shouldn't buy it if it is this stupid.
Although....
Must..... buy..... STAR WARS.....
Darkside..... calling..... must......give into.....hate for Lucas

and say, yeah Han shooting first showed you what type of guy he was, but then he changes and becomes a much more decent fellow and you grow to love him so much. Every time he says "Never tell me the odds" I always laugh about how great he was without force powers.

Whatever Lucas did, his genius has to be acknowledged because he created this story that some people are fervent about. For fans, it's kind of like a domestic violence situation. We love him, but we get abused, but we still love him, then he abuses us some more with Jar Jar and such and Greedo shooting first edits, but we go back to argue about Star Wars and we all go back to see it some more.... He could do anything he wanted -- completely destroy the series, and fans would still be there. That is a true genius. Wish I could come up with a story like that....