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I was reading the what is evil thread and serial killers came up a couple of times. I have read alot of books about killers in general. People who kill in a moment of passion, serial killers etc etc. I have always wondered though just what is it that makes a serial killer tick? Probably 90% of them come from horrific childhoods, but then you have the Ted Bundy's who didnt have a bad upbringing. SO I guess what I'm asking is, do you think these people were born this way? Do you think their circumstances were solely to blame? In other words, why do some people become serial killers?

I myself think that there is some kind of something in their makeup that leads them down that path.

Hereditary vs. Environment

And I believe people are born this way myself, with a small part of their brain incompassing this idea, and their upbringing just brings it out.

There is no "evil gene", that only exists in the Simpsons

well now see I dont necessarily mean a gene
its hard to explain....just a something....a glimmer of inhumaness maybe...this is hard to describe

But see... You can't literally inherit something if there's no way to genetically code it... I can see how it would be possible for a kid to get messed up before being born if its mother was smoking or doing drugs or some shit like that while she was pregnant... But that also seems like it would kill the child

I don't know, personally, I don't think genetics have anything to do with it. I think it's just environmental. Yeah, you hear about serial killers who supposedly had good upbringings, but just because they had good parents doesn't mean they had a happy childhood. There are any number of things that could cause a kid to grow up abnormally that the parents would never have to know about.

Revan hun I dont mean something genetic, I mean something there lurking in the personality make up...ya know what I mean? This is so hard to describe...and thats a good point about kids with good parents not necessarily having a good childhood. Too many variables.

Yeah, personality is a tough one... It's supposedly just a combination of genetics and environment, but it seems like there's more to it than that

so that being given...what do you think? a personality flaw so to speak? or is serial killing a "learned behavior", or a response to something external? This is a hard one to figure out. I'm gonna go to bed, maybe someone will have a theory to explain this in the morning!

I think most things that go on in people's minds start externally, if not all of them. So it's a response, maybe subconscious, to something external, but it's not necessarily "learned".

They're insane, not right in the membrain, ect.

People become serial killers for different reasons. No one just wakes up one morning and decides to go kill someone.

We ALL have murder tendencies in us, but we suppress them, people who become serial killers do not suppress that, and just run with it. And the most dangerious serial killers are those who believe that what they are doing is not wrong, which almost all of them believe. If they didnt believe it at the begining, they convince themselfs that their acts are not wrong.

Dismissing serail killers as evil is too simplistic and its a wrong way to be looking at people like this.

ok, but then what makes some of these people go back and have sex with the people they have already killed? And yes, I know thats pretty sick, but what causes that? That surely cant be somethng we all have inside of us that we repress, at least I hope not. Although I do very much agree with all people having the urge to kill at one point or another, I dont think we all have the urge to kill repeatedly or for sport the way some of these people do.

Nah, you misuderstood me. We all have murdurous tendencies in us, and people who run with it, once they kill it fulflles that urge, but thenafter it becomes much easier and addictive because if felt good the first time. Just like anything else, it becomes an addiction.

Most murderers and serial killers get a kick out of tourchering or murdering another person. it becomes exciting. Because this kind of act produces excitement in these people, they become sexualy arroused.
Text book examples of serial killers who kill and have sex with the corpse dont actually have sex with the corpse of the first person they murder, it usually happens later on.

very cool

Sorry, did an edit

Ok I have thought abuot this some more and while I agree with lil I still think there has to be some "flaw" some "glitch" in a persons wiring to make them do these things. For example, you look at people who have killed in the heat of the moment....like the mom who shot her abused childs abuser...those people probably never would have committed murder had they not been "pushed" in their minds to do so. And they would never kill again I dont think. I just really feels it has something to do with the way a person is wired so to speak.

Oh absolutely. I dont deny that There are people who kill in self defence, or in a moment of rage, or even whe they dont mean to kill a person, sometimes those are crimes of passon etc.

I was only refering to those psychotic serial killers such as Ted Bundy, Charls Manson...etc!

There is nothing inherently 'insane' about serial killers, it's a matter of societal chains and norms.

I believe that ed gein was possed by a demon at birth

are you suggesting that sirel killers arent evil?

Evil is relative.

Morally wrong is perhaps more concrete if we consider the concepts of mala inse and mala prohibita, in which case they would be morally in the wrong.

I don't think evil is so easily measured, if it indeed exists as a concept.

ugh excuse me ed gein is a perfect example of evil any body that wears a mask out of human skin and murdes people with a chainsaw is evil

That's from your perspective though, and although it is generally shared, it's not provable.

Ending an innocent humans life is evil. Evil is a constant on earth just like gravity.

Gravity is scientifically measurable though, evil is abstract. I'm not disputing that something may be 'evil' to you, and indeed to many or most, as murder is. It's just not a constant because if there is one person that thinks murder is not evil, then it cannot be provably evil. You could deny gravity, but it would still exist regardless.

That's why I mentioned the concept of mala inse.

I think that that depends on the circumstances. What if it is self defense or a pure act of rage and madness. Are you saying that the person that commited the crime was evil or just the crime is evil, because I think there are certain times where those both are not true.

Precisely, and thus evil is as nebulous as a concept like love.

dude! In english please? Your posts all sound like nuculear physics.

And I think that is why "good" people can never understand why people turn into serial killers. (that are evil) I just don't think it could be understood.

I thought that was straight forward.

I was just making the point that if evil means different things to different people, it's hard to say something is definitely evil. Moral absolutists would argue that some things are inherently evil.

aaaahhhhh that one I understood!

I read somewhere that the children of clinically insane women are more likely to develop serial killer caracteristics.

And hey, some of these people just want to be noticed, i get that, and the whole upbringing thing, i think thats key (in cases that are not crimes of passion etc.) If a child had a really bad childhood, then he/she might want revenge. Same with mothers who kill their child's abuser. I think thats justified, but those cases arnt evil, the crime itsself is bad yeh, but the person isnt.

But serial killers, woah. They are pretty bad. They must have a reason to do the things they do, they're mad at someone or something and it grows to encompass more than it began with, and i dont think they can help that. I guess that they have no other way to turn after they commited their first.

And if you cant be famous, be infamous! lol i make myself laugh...

*tumbleweed rolls past....*

Well, I guess some of us are saying that kids can turn into serial killers because of their environment, well I think that's bull. That could be a factor, but there is something deep inside, evil, that really triggers it.

maybe their born evil...but like i said in other threads...in their prespectives they think they are doing good.

hitler killed jews. our perspective was bad but in his perspective he thought he was doing the right thing.

So am i evil coz i think hitler had the right idea? not the killing thing, coz thats a bit bad, but he wanted his country back the way it should have been, with germans in it. I wish ppl wud stay in their own country.... kinda, but i wudnt kill them coz of it...

lol id laugh if the english started killin me coz i live in their country

How do you know that Bundy didn't have a bad upbringing?

I should think it's a combination of genetic predisposition and horrific circumstances.

Don't see how the terms 'evil' and 'unhealthy' are mutually exclusive. Insane does literally mean unhealthy rather than out of control.

Shaber> Since when does insane mean unhealthy?

weeellll it means that in latin. But insanity as in having poor mental health is a kind of unhealthiness isn't it

i think so

I like this thread.

I actually sit in my school library and pick out books specifically about serial killers. Fascinating bunch, the lot of them.

When you label someone insane of psychotic, think about how that would come about. Do you think it just is? Insanity comes from imbalances in the brain's chemical structure, just like EVERY other feeling humans have. For example, the notion for suicide comes from a lack of a certain chemical reaction(I forget the name. It's usually said on commericals for anit-depressants) . These people aren't "evil", they're just dysfunctional. If I were to mess with the chemicals in ANY humans brain, I can make them do whatever I like. I can make them cry, be angry, or actually have the notion to go out and WANT to kill someone.

Not only this, but also social enviroment can cause someone to go out and commit crimes.

Example of the former: The Son of Sam had an imbalance that made him think that a demonic dog ordered him to kill people.

Example of the latter: Ted Bundy just wasn't loved enough for his standard. He hated women because of his mother.

How do you get to differentiate between "evil" and dysfunctional?" The evil ARE dysfunctional! How difficult is it to behave oneself properly? The only sensible thing to do with those like Bundy would be to destroy every last trace of them.

If I were to lobotomize you, you wouldn't be able to behave the way you wanted even if you tried your damnedest, therefore it would be very difficult. The psychotic are sort of...naturally lobotomized.

"Evil" is just a perception, an explination for something that really isn't there. Kind of like love, as pointed out earlier. Labeling the dysfunctional 'evil' isnt very fair, since they aren't under control.

Now, let's take someone who is completely sane and knows exactly what they are doing, and get a kick out of killing people. First off, the police would never catch him, and second, HE could be labeled evil. Someone without a dysfunction in the brain killing for joy would be evil. Someone who acts because of an imbalance in their brain isn't really acting of their own free will, now are they? It isn't their fault that they were f*cked up.

And that grave misconception is the long standing failing of the US Justice System.

wow i completely agree with AF. u got it right down man!

I don't see how you can label that a misconception. I just provided facts that they aren't under their own stable control. If someone were to f*ck with the chemicals in YOUR brains, you wouldn't be able to stop yourself from killing either. This rule applies to EVERYONE. Does this make EVERYONE on the planet evil?

Anyone who thinks they are entitled to commit mass murder is wrong, plain and simple. Quibbling over such ridiculous abstractions as what disorder they have is beyond ludicrous. 'Disorder' Labels are applied to all conditions nowadays however trivial. All serial killers should be destroyed, whether they think they are more important than others or whether they have one of those phoney "insanity" diagnoses, as it makes no difference at all.

Well, I wouldn't go as far as to say that they should be dismissed, OR that they should be "destroyed". Like I said, a simple lobotomy will change the person's behavior.

I have a chemical imbalance. I have threatened and attacked family members as a teen. I aspired to kill. I was violent and anitsocial. I felt great hatred for the happy world becuase I was in such pain. I was in constant, grinding pain and horror of the world itself. Looking at the people who took news of child abuse etc in stride and went on with their lives without rejecting humanity as I did- well I saw these people as so empty and self-indulgent that I wanted to kill them. Thoughts of killing them were my only comfort. It seemed the just desserts of their obliviousness. It seemed the only way I could express my horror and hatred in a way that reduced the internal pressure of it. Surely, I thought, their callousness contributed to the source of my pain. Killing them was the only possible last desperate act of resistance to this ugly world they embraced, and which scalded me.
I ended up in juvie, was given meds, became my true self, a person not any different than most, who abhors violence and has chosen a career that involves helping those with chronic pain and terminal illness to live as well as possible. Every day I am thankful that I can show my concern and fellowship to these individuals.
I am not evil. What I was was not evil. Just a computer running a faulty routine. There is so much less free will than people imagine. Chemistry is the soul.
Why didn't I kill anyone? Just a little more hope left in me than perhaps some others were able to hold on to. Hope.
I'm not saying that the psychology of most killers is like mine. I'm just offering a personal example of how the mind is so affected by chemistry.

i just got a book bout jack the ripper ... explaining wat he did and the author thinks she knows who it was ... and she rekons he just had a dislike for women ... but it could of been developing from when he was a child ....its intresting to read as some many people fit the face of jtr ...

Hi ya, Priestess Ok, No, i don't thk you're born that way, that would be taking your free will away. I do think its circumstance around you. I thk what most KIDS don't reasize, if that they could be makeing serial killers...by being mean to that 1 kid every day. Imagine every day of your life having to go to school, knowing everyone makes fun of you. You're either, hit on, made fun of, the center of every joke, Thats hard for a kid to take. Shooting that have taken place, ummm alot (not all) of them are from kids that are made fun of and they get sick and tired of it and thats their way of fighting back.

you can have 2 people grow up in the same envirnment, 1 will stray off the other will go forward, Choices. I know this family that that happened to, I actually went to church w/them when i was a kid. There was 4 kids, all of them turned out great but 1. He ended up being in prison 2 times, the 2nd time being, he murdered a lady in one of the most horrible ways, all becz she tried talking to him and telling him that him dating his cousin was wrong. He even went as far as helping everyone look for her, when her husband and kids reported her missing. The things he did to her......i don't know if words could explain. I grew up w/this kid!!! A few years ago he comitted suicide on the annv of the killing.

Wow I thk thats all i can say is: wow I know there is chemical imbalances, Thats great that you got the help you needed