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was ed gein evil? what about hitler or charles mansion? were they born evil?

lets take a lookey at ed gein born hideously deformed tortured small animals science five and killed people in what was came to be know as "the texas chainsaw massicer" tell thats not evil

The thing is, you cannot even begin to debate such a point until 'evil' is defined. It means different things to different people, so how can you be born as an abstract subjective quantity?

Murdering people is evil. torturing animals is evil. Pedofiles are evil.

end of story

Sword> The person in question sounds like he's INSANE.

That guys was just a sick person end of story he needed to get the electric chair.

No, that's not even the beginning. You aren't even arguing from a standard moral viewpoint, just a knee jerk reaction. Is a child that squashes ants evil?

No ants are not people they have no rights. the guy that sawed off limbs with a chainsaw is evil. and so are pedofiles. they both need to be killed

You said people who torture animals are evil. If you hold the views that strongly you'd think they'd last a lifetime, let alone from post to post.

I ment animals like cats,dogs, ect not insects bugs have no right unlike other animals

What if someone else thought killing insects was evil?

Don't you think that would possibly mean evil is only according to viewpoint?

Omega> So do you think that Good and Evil are genetic? To me, it's not in the skin, brain, or any actual part of a body. I think that it's in the soul. I think that you are either born good or evil and for the most part people are born good and they just don't turn evil or evil to good. You are born good or evil and it comes to play as an adult. I really have never heard of an evil kid.

yes they would be...and if not, then the environment would turn them "evil" such as family/friends!

?

You love contradicting yourself, dont you?

In my family: yes.
My grandfather was evil, my father was evil, and, so-I am inherently evil!

charles mansion was raised in a loving home. explain why he made a killer cult

bugs dont have emotions,feelings,or a soul they are nothing but little robots all they do is eat,bree,die

We're getting a bit off the topic, aren't we?

Well first of all, that is not what i was getting at You said '' the guy that sawed off limbs with a chainsaw is evil. and so are pedofiles. they both need to be killed '' then you said murdering is evil....its a contradiction

Second of all, you dont know if insect have feelings or not, how the hell do you know if they feel or not, and who are you to decide if they are going to live or die?

its not murder it keeping the rest of socioty safe. the have no place in our socioty. Liberty can not exist if evil doers are spared

How many times have you seen an insect show compasion,fear,hate,sadness?

And how do you know they dont?

I see them suck body juices out of other bugs and ect. if they had emotion thed have empathy for there victims

This whole thread concerns humans that do the very same, by your logic, humans are also similar.

First off, BingaBonga, lol . As in the dictionary, it defines a soul as: An entity which is regared as being the immortal or spiritual part of a person, and though having no physical or material reality, is credited with the unctions of thinking and willing, and hence determining all behavior. That is what I believe a soul is, and it determines weather a person is born good or evil.

Know one really knows why certain ppl have the 'evil seed'. Some believe it's environmental and some say it's genetic. If we knew the answer, we'd have a cure.

Hammurabi's Code of Laws states yes, however society has changed alot since theses codes were written. And yet, the mentality of someone out for revenge can blind them to the measures of right vs wrong. Sometimes, nothing else matters, and the rest of the world doesn't exist. It's all about mindset.

I think I answered it in a sagacious manner. Read my reply again.

depends on the victim

the hammurabis code is the best justice system in the known universe. Its better than americas whitch treats phycos with dignity.

Originally posted by The Omega
So if an innocent man is electrecuted because his alleged victims family wanted revenge, is it okay for the innocent man's family to seek vengeance over the alleged victim's family?

I ask you: Is murder right or wrong?



Im talking about people that really did it like murders, rapist, pedofiles and those that do evil to others in general

It's out-dated, however our mentality still reverts back to the code when a wrong has been done to us. And it's our morality that stops us from taking revenge and allowing the justice system to deliver punishment for us, despite sometimes all we really want is revenge itself.

yeah...whatever! our justice system dosent have any balls if they did they would lets phycos in socioty after trying to rehiblitate them.

yeah if you accept slavery

i dont think people are born evil to me they seem to be influenced by either television / books or other happenings in the world .... like the yorkshire ripper ... obvioulsy had sidings with jack the ripper
lil kids fllushing lil fish down the toilets because AlL drains lead to the ocean (finding nemo ) so thisshows things like that effect the way people act and live there lives...

There are many things that have no indication that they do exist, but that's where belief comes in, and I don't think that a soul and personality are the same thing. A soul goes a lot deeper. It reveals your inner self that even you may not discover till the right time. You always know what your personality is.

i dunno i know a few people who are pretty evil....this one friend of mine became friends with me and then i guess she looked over my shoulder one day to see my pin, she took my bank card, stole $740 then hung out with me for a week offering to buy me stuff cause she ''felt bad someone stole my wallet" anyways the cops caught her on 5 different cameras using my card and then she finally confessed to it....i think she was born evil.

oh yeah forgot to add....this isnt the first time she has done stuff like this.

I don't know if that really is evil, just stupidity.

well ok then she is just a *****

Look at our world, our labor force, our military, our laws, our so-called freedom of rights. . . slavery is all around us. We just think we're free.

I guess that's a way to look at it...

we are as free as we want to be, if you think what you mention is slavery well then I guess you have to live in your little gloomy world.

Noone is born evil, evil is a trade that is learned

We believe we are free because are deluded to think that way.

or deluded to think otherwise

I have an assiment for anybody who dosent believe in evil. look up in the library "helter skelter" and "ed gein" you believe

everything besides slavery and ect It was perfect in its treatment of cirminals.

I'm trying to figure you out, are you positive or cynical? I dunno yet.

I think there are two kinds of "evil" people:
The ones that are naturally cruel (evil) , whom i believe are insane, because they don't 'win' anything if they hurt someone;
AND the ppl who used to be good, but something happened (beaten up in childhood, the army, a certain loss, etc. ), and lost their affection in time.

Agreed!!!

angel Now, ladygrim so you'e saying it's possible for Movies, books..other things in the world to create a person to be evil?
hmm You know where i'm going with this don't ya? hehehe hp..work of the devil, ring a bell? See it is possible

No, beliefs are not an indication that souls exist, because beliefs aren't based on fact. There's no evidence to back the existence of a soul. There is however, evidence of the subconcious.

ON EVIL
----------

It is my belief that morals are simply a case of "doing to others as you would wish done to you". If you dont like it, it goes against your morals.

Where do these moral come from?
----------------------------------------

Some people learn from their mistakes, others do not.

Why is this?
--------------

It is my opinion that people must be born with the ability to learn from mistakes, or develop it.

For example, when you were young and fell off your bike it was an immediate reaction to realise (learn) that this wasn't something you wanted to do again; due to the pain or embarressment.

If, knowing this, you then cause the same incident to occur to another person (who you have no objection against) by pushing them from their bike, you clearly do not care for their wellfare and have no objection with inflicting the pain that was subjected to you.

By commiting this act you would be breaking your morals. after all, you did not like it, but are happy to inflict it on another.

Having commited the act, if you feel no remorse (not publicly, but privately) then you could be deemed morally bad or malicious.

Both the terms "morally bad", and malicious describe the word evil (look in the dictionary).

Obviously, the scale of action will determine how evil.

Therefore, if you learn from your mistakes and realise the consequenses yet still inflict them on others (in the form of pain or loss) you could be deemed evil (to a certain extent.)

If you do not know the consequences of the action, you are not evil but misguided.

This does not make your actions right, but you too dumb. You should be punished for your actions, because experience is the only way to learn the true moral objectives within you.

I dont want to preach I just feel this is the case. Pretty logical really.

Hannibal lectur (a film) was a sikcko. But probably beacsue he saw a lot of negativity and uselessness in people. He probably saw the existance of some people as pointless, but his existance was too (in my opinion).

We are one and the same, with different opinions and moods. What makes me right and you wrong? The answer to that is in your head now. Becasue it is you who knows. The only truth can be developed within your head, bsed on experience of what I say or what you see/hear.

So, back to the point of being born evil. Yes, some people are. They will inflict what they know is wrong with limted reasoning. probably beacause they are selfish and arrogant.

This limited reasoning makes them evil. They do it for their satisfaction or becasue they can, with complete disregard of their morals. They are born with this limited reasoning.

Admitidly, they have never been killed or cut up, so they have not felt the pain. But they know its wrong. we all feel bad sometimes (guilty), and these pople embrace these bad feelings and enjoy them. Its an evil action, they know, but they embrace it and take its hand.

Nasty bastards. Killing them is not enough, they should be left with themselves.

Thats the worst torment available for these people. Leave them to rot in their own minds, and throw away the key. Once they realise how pathetic and useless their existance is they will have to make a choice. but unfortunatly, it will be too late for them.

If they get out, kill them. Their only flesh and blood.

Take the case of James bulgar, wher two 10 year olds took a three year old (lost) child from the mall. They took him to a railway miles from his mother in the hall, torturing him all the way as he cried for his "mum" in the way only a child can. Hitting him and poiking him. Laid him down and put paint in his eys. Stuck batteries into his armpits and skin while he was crying. Beat him with stones and brick. causing him horrific injuries, pain and destress. barte in mind he would have been very small, juskt a "winky" as my girlfriend calls them.

After having beat him within an inch of his life over a long time period he died. They then left him on a train track so that a passing train would dispose of the evidence for them.

That, my friend, IS EVIL.. THEY WERE YOUNG, yes, BUT EVIL!!

I used to hit my younger brothers, but never, never, never could I picture myslef acting in this way. It is not just wrong, I couldn't bring myself to do it.

THEY ARE QUITE SIMPLY EVIL!!!

If you think it any other way, you are wrong. Experience may have caused them to act this way, but their "pleasure" obviously made them do it.

Everyone is differnet.

Everyone thinks different.

So some are born evil. (you know they wouldn't want that done to them.)

Very nice "speach"... the only thing I didn't agree with you is --> "The only truth can be developed within your head, bsed on experience of what I say or what you see/hear."

Logic is gained through our five senses, and not three...

people are born with genetic limitations for good or bad, but evil is very very rare{truly evil that is}, after that, its just a matter of their influences and the "data" their mind processes over time, this turns them into good or evil people, while some find it harder to be good, others find it quite easy{which means that their "potentials" for good and evil can be judged by their birth but the actual turning into an evil person depends both on their genetic potential and experiences and affecting incidents etc}

Originally posted by Napalm
was ed gein evil? what about hitler or charles mansion? were they born evil?

Evil is a term only of humans, but here you go again:
Mankind is a creation of ye "good" gods (offspring of the evil Ones), all is born in Chaos...

ALL of us (means me too) are naturally born 'evil' and are children of wrath.

Truly there is no "evil" or no "good" it is equal, like macrocosmos/microcosmos, chaos/order, etc., etc.

If there is no 'good' or 'evil', than why are some things 'wrong'? Why is it 'wrong' then to murder, rape, steal etc.? Why is it 'good' to give money, be polite, do volunteer work etc.?

I think we are all inherantly evil and it's a struggle to be good. It's something we tend to strive for and if you try you can overcome the evil within. Those who choose to embrace it find themselves slaves to evil. That's how I see it.

Originally posted by ska57
If there is no 'good' or 'evil', than why are some things 'wrong'? Why is it 'wrong' then to murder, rape, steal etc.? Why is it 'good' to give money, be polite, do volunteer work etc.?

there are "good" and "wrong", but yet sometimes people are wrong fully accuse, who is really wrong then, when each of them think that they are right? Why are you now different than those that are really still searching for the truth than just rather following your instincts, of which you think is right?

every one is evil

Originally posted by Napalm
was ed gein evil? what about hitler or charles mansion? were they born evil?

I shall meditate on this.

the omega I think you are right "EVIL" has never been proven genetic (i have to do a report on this subject can you help me please

Commando Queen not everyone is evil

It's a decision of choice.

choices is what makes a person evil

though people can have a predisposition through genetics...and upbringing.....maybe........though I feel that can be over ridden....my opinion.....many have...

Originally posted by Napalm
was ed gein evil? what about hitler or charles mansion? were they born evil?
Evil comes in many forms..

But it stems from the selfish desires, we are born evil, it's up to us as more advanced creatures to rise above our petty desires for lust, fantasy, and matireals.. We need to come to grasps that we are beyond those things.. Only then can one be evil no longer.. Can some people be born more prone to evil then others? Most ceartainly. Mental diseases are inherited, chemichal imbalances can happen, and karma follows you.. That doesn't mean they should be put under any less of a standard, that doesn't mean they should be classified as Hitler's from the moment of conception, that's life for you. Shit happens..

No, evil is a culture base concept. There is no such thing as good or evil outside of a culture. People do good or evil things depending on who is judging at the time. What is evil to you maybe good to someone else.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
No, evil is a culture base concept. There is no such thing as good or evil outside of a culture. People do good or evil things depending on who is judging at the time. What is evil to you maybe good to someone else.
SpellJammer doesn't want to get banned so he's going to pretend this statement wasn't so incredbily stupid. He just wishes you knew what if fealt like to be raped or beaten or anything else "evil" so you wouldn't BE so ignorant..

Unless you've had first-hand expirience with evil, you're in no position to be saying it doesn't exsist. Because it does, and he doubts you'd be able to get through the exprience if you had too.. Greyman attitudes are all talk..

Originally posted by Spelljammer
SpellJammer doesn't want to get banned so he's going to pretend this statement wasn't so incredbily stupid. He just wishes you knew what if fealt like to be raped or beaten or anything else "evil" so you wouldn't BE so ignorant..

Unless you've had first-hand expirience with evil, you're in no position to be saying it doesn't exsist. Because it does, and he doubts you'd be able to get through the exprience if you had too.. Greyman attitudes are all talk..

What people do is evil. From a Christian point of view; the person who has done evil can still be saved. From a Buddhist point of view; all people have the Buddha in them trying to come forth. Spelljammer, I have something privet to tell you, so pm me, please.

Why? SpellJammer is hesitant, he DOES get flammed alot..

And he never said evil people can't be redeemed and or can't reach Buddhivistha.. But that's not what we're discussing, we're saying are some people prone to falling? And the answer is yes, does that mean they're doomed to lifetimes of being immoral, hideous abomonations? No. Not if they don't want too. Not stronger the darkside, just easier..

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Why? SpellJammer is hesitant, he DOES get flammed alot..

And he never said evil people can't be redeemed and or can't reach Buddhivistha.. But that's not what we're discussing, we're saying are some people prone to falling? And the answer is yes, does that mean they're doomed to lifetimes of being immoral, hideous abomonations? No. Not if they don't want too. Not stronger the darkside, just easier..

To say a person is evil, in my religion is a "sin". If a person is truly evil, then the Buddha is evil. If a person is truly evil, then Jesus failed cause this evil person could not be saved. Evil is a yard still, many acts of evil where done with good intent. Think about all of the witches burned at the stake, these were innocent people killed because the church wanted to save their souls.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
...and he doubts you'd be able to get through the exprience if you had too.. Greyman attitudes are all talk..

What is a Grayman?

There is no reason to insult me. You do not know my heart. Go back and read my posts, all of them. Maybe then, you can talk to me.

Originally posted by Napalm
No ants are not people they have no rights. the guy that sawed off limbs with a chainsaw is evil. and so are pedofiles. they both need to be killed

They are indeed evil. Maybe they should be killed, but that's for a different discussion.
To make this idea fit the discussion topic, were these people born to do these things?
Of course not. Sociopaths (insane people who like to kill or otherwise injure people for little or no reason) are made by elements in their environment, most likely heavily influenced by things that happened to them in childhood. They were no born evil, however. They became evil.

Another way of looking at this topic:

All people, simply by existing, are capable of evil, even if they never do anything evil. By this parameter, then all people are born evil.

That's not a very positive outlook, however, and since your reality is determined by your point of view, I choose not to live by this point of view.

jedi has a point people choose to become evil they arn't born evil. they were born with the freedom of choosing

Originally posted by JediMusician
...All people, simply by existing, are capable of evil, even if they never do anything evil. By this parameter, then all people are born evil.
..

I look at the other side. People are born with good in then but the things they do (karma) changes the path they take in life.

Everybody is capable of evil, it's just that there isn't always anything that happens that brings it out of them. I think some people are born with physcological problems where they may think it is ok to do "evil" things but somehow it seems awful to say they are born evil if it is physcological and it isn't their fault.

Originally posted by Treehuggerjanie
Everybody is capable of evil, it's just that there isn't always anything that happens that brings it out of them. I think some people are born with physcological problems where they may think it is ok to do "evil" things but somehow it seems awful to say they are born evil if it is physcological and it isn't their fault.

What is evil? To me the things that the terrorists did on 9-11 was evil, but to may people in the world it was a great good, a victory from god. So, I ask again, what is evil?

evil= bush, blair, american government, former iraqi government, tyrants, racists, sexists, rapists{arguable}, cold blooded murderers{arguable}, american soldiers who fight even when they know that their reason for fighting is not justifiede{some cases can be argued}, relegious people who truly follow their relegion and do exactly as it says{other than buddhists perhaps}, bad parents{arguablke for some but for most of the third world ,very true}, bullies{pure evil!!!!!!!!!!}, rich tycoons and business men of the west who all make their bilions off of the starving peoples of the world and do it through unfair trade and force{another pure evil}, and LAAAST OF ALLLL "BRITNEY SPEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!"{u cant get more evil than her}

Originally posted by leonheartmm
evil= bush, blair, american government, former iraqi government, tyrants, racists, sexists, rapists{arguable}, cold blooded murderers{arguable}, american soldiers who fight even when they know that their reason for fighting is not justifiede{some cases can be argued}, relegious people who truly follow their relegion and do exactly as it says{other than buddhists perhaps}, bad parents{arguablke for some but for most of the third world ,very true}, bullies{pure evil!!!!!!!!!!}, rich tycoons and business men of the west who all make their bilions off of the starving peoples of the world and do it through unfair trade and force{another pure evil}, and LAAAST OF ALLLL "BRITNEY SPEARS!!!!!!!!!!!!"{u cant get more evil than her}

Couldn't evil also be, to some people, anyone who has the same opinion as you have, above?

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
Obviously yes, it is possible for people to be born evil considering if the man on the cross on the necklace of my neck meant nothing to me, then Id be the mediator in this, but since I believe in God, I believe he wouldnt just create a person and say "Hey okay, Im creating you to be evil and kill everyone on earth" and this and that. There are forms of evil, physically and mentally that we cannot explain

If someone was born evil, Jesus could not save that person.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
If someone was born evil, Jesus could not save that person.
Yes but if you're a believer like me, I come to think that God creates all people and he's not going to let an evil person into the world, now is he? So there have to be other factors!

Everyone is born evil. The only men born good were Adam and Jesus, and Adam became evil when he sinned against God. Every man from that point on carries the genetic curse brought on by Adam,(with the exception of Jesus of course, who was fully God/Man without evil)

Some people based on their genetics/family history are more suceptible to certain types of "evil" behaviors than others, however, this still doesn't negate their ability to make choices about what type of life they would like to live.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Everyone is born evil. The only men born good were Adam and Jesus, and Adam became evil when he sinned against God. Every man from that point on carries the genetic curse brought on by Adam,(with the exception of Jesus of course, who was fully God/Man without evil)

Some people based on their genetics/family history are more suceptible to certain types of "evil" behaviors than others, however, this still doesn't negate their ability to make choices about what type of life they would like to live.
Are these words spoken from that lil Gary Coleman in your avvy over there?
Yes some people are born with the tendancy and mortal thoughts of 'evil acts' but knowone naturally put here by God is "evil". At least that's my opinion.

Evil is forever.
Forever there is evil.
God forgives, evils doesn't.

We all had the capacity for evil, and in our lifetimes we will use this capacity more times then we can count. Some more then others, but ultimately the darkside dictates how we act or don't act. Little can most of you realize is it is infact evil that keeps us stable, without it's weakining touch we would become too onimpetant to function..

Originally posted by DanieLs_4_Ever
Are these words spoken from that lil Gary Coleman in your avvy over there?
Yes some people are born with the tendancy and mortal thoughts of 'evil acts' but knowone naturally put here by God is "evil". At least that's my opinion.

If you read scripture, you'll see that your opinion really isn't in accordance with it.



The bible also mentions that we were all conceived in "sin"..can't remember which scripture though.

Anyway..we are all born inherently evil in the eyes of God.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
If you read scripture, you'll see that your opinion really isn't in accordance with it.

The bible also mentions that we were all conceived in "sin"..can't remember which scripture though.

Anyway..we are all born inherently evil in the eyes of God.

I feel sorry for you. To think that you are evil from birth, is evil itself.

The bible is just a book, fill with peoples opinions and thoughts.

A child, when first born, knows nothing of evil or good. The entity which this child is an incarnation of, hold all the karma for this life just born. That Karma shapes the path that this life will take, be it good or evil. We all have God within us and God is not evil.

Well, if you go by the bible, technically he's right. Hence the whole original sin thing.

But...that's a big "if".

People are born with the capacity of evil, that is for sure. Anyone is capable of doing evil deeds, but that doesn't necessarily mean one is born evil. Being evil depends on your choices in life, your upbringing. That's what I think, anyways.

Originally posted by BackFire
Well, if you go by the bible, technically he's right. Hence the whole original sin thing.

But...that's a big "if".

People are born with the capacity of evil, that is for sure. Anyone is capable of doing evil deeds, but that doesn't necessarily mean one is born evil. Being evil depends on your choices in life, your upbringing. That's what I think, anyways.

Your post and my post are in agreement. I took the stance on the bible because this is the Philosophy Forum not the Religious Forum and the thread does not say "according to the bible".

.....

Originally posted by TOAA
.....
What does the Wiccan knot have to do with anything?

And I know that's a knot of The Mother's Trinity because I sport the triquetra which is a simpler version of the same thing. Though the Triquetra can also mean Holy Trinity of Christianity or even the three cycles of Earth. Land, Sea, Air.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I feel sorry for you. To think that you are evil from birth, is evil itself.

The bible is just a book, fill with peoples opinions and thoughts.

A child, when first born, knows nothing of evil or good. The entity which this child is an incarnation of, hold all the karma for this life just born. That Karma shapes the path that this life will take, be it good or evil. We all have God within us and God is not evil.
Doesn't your buddhist philosophy even admit man is born ignorant of his true nature? And that ignorance is the root of all suffering which normaly results from sinful actions?

So indubetedly, if man is born ignorant, he is born with sin.

Originally posted by Spelljammer
What does the Wiccan knot have to do with anything?

And I know that's a knot of The Mother's Trinity because I sport the triquetra which is a simpler version of the same thing. Though the Triquetra can also mean Holy Trinity of Christianity or even the three cycles of Earth. Land, Sea, Air.

actually its symbol for chaos.....it has nothing to do with Christianity

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Doesn't your buddhist philosophy even admit man is born ignorant of his true nature? And that ignorance is the root of all suffering which normaly results from sinful actions?

So indubetedly, if man is born ignorant, he is born with sin.

You need to read up on Buddhism more. Ignorance is not the root of all suffering, attachments are the root of all suffering, but that's per Lotus sutra. Though the Buddha nature, we can change our karma, we don't have to give up anything in life, because life is enlightenment.

I don't know who told you that, but that's the witch'es symbol..

And Chaos? Please tell me your reffering to the aincent Egyption god who came before all other gods and was the creator of those beings whom created us afterward..

Not the inexplicable concept of "chaos" that angst teenagers try to endow to make themselves appear rebelious against their specific organized religon. It's almost as sad as the anarchy schmict..

Oh yay, I looked it up. It seems it IS angst teenager spew, but of the teenage witch variety that derives from "chaos magick" IE: hexes and curses and all that bullcrap which they are by no means prepared to handle because they're fools and will get themselves killed.. Which anyway that STILL isn't the proper symbol for even that mess, this is..

http://z.about.com/d/altreligion/1/0/d/F/2/chaos.jpg
But it was infact originaly a fantasy symbol meaning infinite possibilities. So at best it should either be described by a philsophy or praise to a long forgotten diety. At worst like everything else, angst teenage bullcrap..

I feel almost offended my Pagan knot gets pigeonholed with this..

......ok

I thought it had to do with a woman...kinda a symbol for , a rose or triple goddess, or...just feminine.... OH..can't remember....though have seen it before....Kinda interwoven together.

Originally posted by Shakyamunison
I feel sorry for you. To think that you are evil from birth, is evil itself.


Your feelings of sympathy are misplaced. I would rather live a life of sadness knowing the truth, then a life of contentment based on lies. The truth is that we are all born into sin, which is against God.



The bible is the "inspired word of God"...not human opinion and thoughts.



Not True..human beings have the inherent trait within them to seek out what is evil, rather than what is good from birth. Some are more genetically predisposed to certain types of evil than others, based on cultural/family history.

Why do you think massive races of people were completely destroyed by God throughout the centuries? Many societies had certain evil tendencies so greatly embeded in their social structures/genetics, that the only way to rid the evil was to completely wipe out the entire race of people..this included young children.



Our salvation and "righteousness" is justified through our faith in Christ as savior, not on our "Karma" or works.

Your words are taken from the doctrine of Buddhism, another "man inspired" religion which enables man to justify evil behavior, and to believe that his salvation is dependent upon himself, rather than the deity of Christ.

Please educate yourself in truth of Christ, and cease in continuing to spread this untruthful doctrine to others, seeing as how you will receive the greater punishment for leading others astray.

OK, folks... wow i stepped into a hornet's nest.... to those christians out there: let folks believe what they will, and dont get a 'tude or dog out their beliefs. Christ didn't do that, He never told you to either. He said " they will know us by our LOVE" . Not by our hate, or arguments.

And to the thread's idea.... hmmmm... born into sin yeah... necessarily born as we would see "evil" no. people make choices to become what they will become. you can choose to be evil, or good. Yeah, circumstances of life do throw hard crap at ya, but look at it like this: Out of the pain and torment you have felt, or the goodness and easy life you have had, what do YOU do with the knowledge you have garnered? DO YOU A: take the pain out on others, or B: Use it to help those hurting.
A: take your wealth and hold it over the poor's head, or B: get out there, do grants, donations, and help those in need.


YOU have a choice to be good or evil. Dont let Hell or Heaven or anyone sway that, make it for yourself. You can't get into heaven by "being good", and you may not necessarily end up in hell for "being evil". That stuff is beyond this topic, so folks really oughtta not even worry about it.

In the end, you make that choice. You see that hot young thing, you choose whether or not to respect their space or rape them. You see a person getting mugged, you CHOOSE to call 911 and help them or not. You see $100 on a bank floor, you CHOOSE to turn it in or not. You get mad and have a weapon in your hand, YOU CHOOSE to use it or calm down. Dont blame anyone else for your concious choice to do right or wrong.

What a load of bullshit. I tend to want to be "good" because I like doing that, not because I'm scared of hell or some insincere crap. I know plenty of other people who are the same way.


That's mean.


People like you are the reason so many people hate Christians. Do keep your religion to yourself, please.

all people are bad sometimes. everyone according to the bible is a sinner no matter what they do, or so it seems to me. im not a religious person, but i think all people should be aloud to believe what they want to believe. i dont think there is such a thing as being evil, just bad choices.


dont hate just love

You can't be born evil, however like Omega said a person can be born Agressive. Take cats for example, you are looking for a gentle cat, the first thing you would look at is the parents of the cat, if the parents of the cat are agrresive than the new born cat is agrresive too. Some people are being good just because of religion. Their afraid of hell, or their afraid of being judged by the god. However, what I think is that being evil or good is nothign to do with traits or being born with. A person's life makes a person either good or evil. If a person was forced by his parents to steal something over and over again, than that person would grow to be greedy, evil, and shoplift and steal for the rest of his life.

Originally posted by DreamingWarrior
OK, folks... wow i stepped into a hornet's nest.... to those christians out there: let folks believe what they will, and dont get a 'tude or dog out their beliefs. Christ didn't do that, He never told you to either. He said " they will know us by our LOVE" . Not by our hate, or arguments.



That's how I see it also...

Originally posted by DreamingWarrior
people make choices to become what they will become. you can choose to be evil, or good. Yeah, circumstances of life do throw hard crap at ya, but look at it like this: Out of the pain and torment you have felt, or the goodness and easy life you have had, what do YOU do with the knowledge you have garnered? DO YOU A: take the pain out on others, or B: Use it to help those hurting.
A: take your wealth and hold it over the poor's head, or B: get out there, do grants, donations, and help those in need.
YOU have a choice to be good or evil.In the end, you make that choice. You see that hot young thing, you choose whether or not to respect their space or rape them. You see a person getting mugged, you CHOOSE to call 911 and help them or not. You see $100 on a bank floor, you CHOOSE to turn it in or not. You get mad and have a weapon in your hand, YOU CHOOSE to use it or calm down.

Yep, all about choices....A PERSON MUST CHOSE AND NOT BLAME ANYONE OR ANYTHING ELSE WHAT HE/SHE DOES...

Originally posted by 2Tidus!
If a person was forced by his parents to steal something over and over again, than that person would grow to be greedy, evil, and shoplift and steal for the rest of his life.

Not necessarily true...It's about choices...everyone has a choice...everyone has that inner voice inside them...no matter what background you come from.....

I don't feel people are born good or evil...I think people are just "born"...but yes are simply more aggressive or maybe passive depending on your genetic make up and up bringing.

Than tell me, what makes a person make an evil choice?

Originally posted by leana marie
dont hate just love
Impossible. You, me, everyone in this room will give into thier hatred eventualy. The darkness will, it must consume you. This is why we have mortal deaths, to set balance to The Force. But you as a human being will give into evil, it's in your nature, it's in your destiny.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v628/hgwelles/emperor_palpatine-3.jpg
Embrace the darkside, and it will give you power.
Deny it, and you will know only regrets..

Originally posted by 2Tidus!
Than tell me, what makes a person make an evil choice? What would make a person NOT make an evil choice?

Originally posted by 2Tidus!
Than tell me, what makes a person make an evil choice?

Tell me what is an "evil" choice

Originally posted by Bardock42
Tell me what is an "evil" choice
Evil is what results in the most inconvient circumstance, what may appear good now may have been an illusion of evil. Take abortion for instance.

Sure it seems well and good, people given the right to choose, those who's kids are going to be born vegetables or with the mother's lives in danger don't have to go through miles of redtape..

But take a look at what it's done to our society. Our society is now a bunch of pompus assholes who believe they are God. They decide when something should live or die, they don't care what you think, what thier own friends or family think, or what even God thinks. Only thier own selfish desires.. They even are so sadistic as to think they're entitled to the tax money of people who don't want abortion to fund it so it stays on tax forms.. You only have yourselves toblame for giving them an inch which let them take a mile..

Ultimately, because of this, morality as a whole has declined. And that's why liberals cheered when Terry Shaivo starved to death. That's right, we have serial killers who get let out because it's wrong to give them a lethal injection, but an innocent woman had to starve to death, because some quack said she had brain deffieitcies, so that gave liberals the right to play God. Democracy dies with a roaring applause.

And wether it's liberals blurring the lines of right and wrong with thier selfish agendas or thier hair brain schemes.

Or conservatives massive paranoia sending our friends and family off to die and building new, exotic weapons to destroy someone a tottaly new way. The same hypocrisy comes up, none of you want life preservation, none of you are good, you're all filthy, sinful creatures. And you deserve all this hell you create for yourselves and so much more.

You try to tell me that you love life.
Then you find another way to kill life.

Dude...wasn't in fact keeping this Shiavo woman alive for 10+ years plying god....and anways...my question stands...what is "evil"......is it on you to decidee what is "evil"...

Originally posted by Darth Revan
What a load of bullshit. I tend to want to be "good" because I like doing that, not because I'm scared of hell or some insincere crap. I know plenty of other people who are the same way.


Good for you. But regardless of any of our intentions..the bottom line is that all of our deeds are considered "dirty rags" before God. According to his word, salvation can only be obtained through belief in Christ.



It may sound mean, but it is actually quite true. Really..read up on christian theology a bit.



Actually I have every right to express my opinion as the next person in this forum..I answered the question from a "Christian" Philosophical perspective...just like many other posters have answered the question from other religious philosophical perspectives(Buddhist, Wiccan, Aetheist, etc..etc)

Originally posted by Bardock42
Dude...wasn't in fact keeping this Shiavo woman alive for 10+ years plying god....and anways...my question stands...what is "evil"......is it on you to decidee what is "evil"...
You tried to use liberal-lightning on me.
You failed.

I never said it was my place to decide if she lived or died.
But what gave you and your kind the right to starve her to death?

And yes, your kind. There's two kinds of people in this world, and when one of them is foolish enough to bring up these barbaric words and how they can "justify" it they'll get put in thier place too, but the mics your's. What gave you the right to starve any living creature to death? How could you not feel sympathy? Remourse? Question your party's actions?

Liberals don't need to believe in Gods or souls, they don't have one..

What liberal lightning....given there would be a god, and he wqanted her to live well then he would have made her to live naturally would he not?
She was fed and kept in a state that I wouldn't want my fiercest enemy in for many years.....now if I would give one shit aboot that women (and I really don't) I would feel good that she was able to die at last.

I didn't starve her to death...what gave her family the right to keep her uinnaturally alive?

First, I am not a Democrat......second, I didn't starve anyone to death....third I don't care if she died the most horrible death or not because I am selfish...as iss everyone else...but that's another topic.....and fourth why do you assume that starving to death for ten days is much wotrth than living in the most disgusting way for ten years.......I don't think it's my right to chose if she should live or not.....but neither is it youirs..it's just the decision of the family.

I agree......

Originally posted by DreamingWarrior
OK, folks... wow i stepped into a hornet's nest.... to those christians out there: let folks believe what they will, and dont get a 'tude or dog out their beliefs. Christ didn't do that, He never told you to either. He said " they will know us by our LOVE" . Not by our hate, or arguments.


Wasn't trying to dog out anyone's belief..just stating the truth. There is nothing wrong with that. Christ told the truth in all circumstances, even if people were offended by it.



You have the right to believe that..however, It really isn't the truth. Whether we want to believe it or not..we are all inherently evil. From the greatest to the least..man's heart is intent towards commiting evil.



The only real choice we have in this life is to except Christ as Savior. If we truly except Christ..then the by product of that will be the good works he produces through us.

Originally posted by Bardock42
third I don't care if she died the most horrible death or not because I am selfish...
Really?


Actually that WAS the topic, not very bright the left either..


You have said enough.


Her family? Then you admit the goverment is corrupt and still stuck in more savage times as they allowed her EX to make the descision when her family was willing to pay for it. At that her ex who had only been married to her for three years..

There is nothing more to discuss. I've proven the evils of man, atleast on the left side of the field. My work is done here.. Enjoy your hell..

What's an evil choice? An evil choice is when someone picks a choice of Evil. You have a choice to kill an innocent person, or not to. If you pick to kill an innocent person, then you chose an evil choice.

What is Evil? Evil is something which is the opposite of peace. Something that destroys harmony. There's something that will destroy peace no matter what your opinion is. It's just a fact that it will destroy peace.

Yes...really.....I am cold......can't do anything aboot it.

Not really..the topic is are people "evil" ....not are they "selfish" ...quite a difference...and please don't call me left...I hate the left.....left is socialist-progressive-liberal .....I am capitalist-neutral-liberal.......


Maybe I have said enough..but now it's your turn to answer...so why do you think that death is the worse possibility for her?

Yes her family....her husband, her parents, her possible children....her "Family".......now I think it is really not my decision...but the government has to decide who ultimately has to decide...

I have to disagree...you cannot prove the evils of people if there is no definitiopn of evil...and you surely haven't given one ... or why it should be the definition. Humans are neither evil ir good....because there is no such thing as evil otr good...it's all relative....

Originally posted by 2Tidus!
What's an evil choice? An evil choice is when someone picks a choice of Evil. You have a choice to kill an innocent person, or not to. If you pick to kill an innocent person, then you chose an evil choice.

What is Evil? Evil is something which is the opposite of peace. Something that destroys harmony. There's something that will destroy peace no matter what your opinion is. It's just a fact that it will destroy peace.

Harmony...what is harmony......the truth is we don't know what evil is...we call what we don't like evil...but everyone dislikes other things....the Harmony you are talking aboot....what is it...is it the harmony of the US Government....or the Harmony of a tree in a Jungle...or the Harmony of a Middle East Dictatorshp......it'S not absolute...not clear.....

Originally posted by Bardock42
Humans are neither evil ir good....because there is no such thing as evil otr good...it's all relative....
If that were the case humans would be an animal, we would be naked and surviving off our wits and physiques like everybody else. But we don't, we're advanced creatures, therfore we have a responsibility to THINK with our advanced minds and seperate good from evil actions..

If you want to be an animal, go out in the woods and hunt elk or something. I'm sure you could survive for a couple of years..

Hell, even animals don't desire to ever kill as malicously as mankind does. I've never seen an animal purposely try to have a miscarriage, nor have I ever seen an animal kill other then they thought thier lives were endanger or inoder to eat.. Proving mankind is even worst then animals, and this is why I don't believe in God persay. Because God was foolish to create such a beast as man, unless maybe it was His doings to make us weak and petit so we couldn't be a liable threat to His universe. But then He could've just destroyed us and more or less done a cosmic abortion.

But then, He'd become almost a man Himself. (Notice I said almost..)

As you can see, evil is a force of will, it is beyond 4-dimensional thinking, evil persists and sorrounds us. And is constantly in conjuction with day to day life. There is no escape. And no-one, not even God, is safe from it's grasp..

We are no more than animals.....that'S all we are....and we have no possibility to "THINK" and to "seperate" good from evil since there is no good or evil.

I don't need to want to be one...it doesnt matter....I am....we are all....

So you think that killing is evil...you have any proof for that...why you think so...maybe it'S good......the only thing that could make you believe what is good and what evil is that god thinks what is good and what not......buteven then...why should god have the right to say what is good and what not.

Because God is above good and evil, God is forever, and onimpetance. Atleast that's my interputattion I don't know, ask that Christian guy, me and him have differant ideas of what God actually is. Personaly I believe God died on the cross along with any hopes of a peaceful afterlife. You nor I nor anybody else deserves that kindof retribution or glory. Call it Satanism. But somehow it makes more sense to me to have gargoyles and demons control what we do to make sure we don't **** up everything for the rest of the multiverse..

And what gives them the right? Cause they said so, and they're stronger then you. Argue with that..

Values are whatever we choose to pursue and whatever we desire. It means there is no such thing as good or evil, except what you think is good or evil. If you believe something is evil, that's just your own personal preference. It is not, and cannot be, a statement about reality. A person cannot be born evil...and making wrong choices usually do have consequences...

Originally posted by Spelljammer
Because God is above good and evil, God is forever, and onimpetance. Atleast that's my interputattion I don't know, ask that Christian guy, me and him have differant ideas of what God actually is. Personaly I believe God died on the cross along with any hopes of a peaceful afterlife. You nor I nor anybody else deserves that kindof retribution or glory. Call it Satanism. But somehow it makes more sense to me to have gargoyles and demons control what we do to make sure we don't **** up everything for the rest of the multiverse..

And what gives them the right? Cause they said so, and they're stronger then you. Argue with that..

Ok that'S your opinion..mine is there is no god...

And..who is stronger than me..I really don't think so....

Originally posted by Bardock42
And..who is stronger than me..I really don't think so....
Guess both of us will have to find out when we die.

Notice a pattern here, between us I am the lesser of two evils..

If you die, and it's how I say, you will never know a day of rest or peace. Which is a delightful omen.

If you die, and it's how you say, you are non-exsistant, your life was meningless and igsinificant anyway.

If both of us are wrong, atleast you're not right.

Funny how it always works against itself doesn't it? Learn to accept that we are more the flesh and blood and beings of energy, it would do you a world of good..

I guess we do...

Although I don't see why your predictment is good for me in any way......besides I don't get on what you base your believes on.....

If we both are wrong....it's sad that I am not right because my idea would be peace forever.....

Why should I accept something that is so unlikely...and what good would it do me....exactly...NOTHING

Stop stating your religious beliefs as if they're facts. It's incredibly foolish, tacky and juvenile and is what gives so many Christians such a bad name.

Originally posted by whobdamandog
Good for you. But regardless of any of our intentions..the bottom line is that all of our deeds are considered "dirty rags" before God. According to his word, salvation can only be obtained through belief in Christ.

Well, I don't really want to worship anyone who thinks everything I do is worthless, hell or no hell.



I know, and I have. It's still mean. Because killing people is one of those things that's just inherently bad, no matter what. Read up on something called The Ten Commandments.



I don't mind that you're expressing yourself. What I mind is that you said this at the end of your post:

"Please educate yourself in truth of Christ, and cease in continuing to spread this untruthful doctrine to others, seeing as how you will receive the greater punishment for leading others astray."

Nobody else told anyone they were going to hell if they didn't convert.

You ask me what is Harmony? Harmony is when human kind lives in a society without killing each other, without trying to make each other's lives worst. That is the main point of harmony. ANYBODY, a killer, or an human on Earth, wouldn't like someone to make their life worst, or get killed.

Originally posted by Darth Revan
Well, I don't really want to worship anyone who thinks everything I do is worthless, hell or no hell.


You'd rather worship a God that measures your worth based on the things you do? Personally, I'd prefer a God that values me regardless of the "good" or "bad" deeds I partake in throughout my life. I believe that kind of love is called "unconditional."



It may seem cruel by human standards, but taking a life away that is predisposed to commiting evil is actually one of the most merciful things a loving God could do.

Why God allows some evil to exist and why he takes other evil away is beyond me..but according to the scripture..everything good/bad is working towards a "good" purpose. If you believe in Christ, then you have faith in this principle.




Never said he was going to hell. I am not God. And I do not have the ability to say who is/isn't going to hell/heaven..this includes myself.

What I did state, however, is that his doctrine was untruthful and that he will receive a greater punishment if he inadvertently leads others astray with this doctrine. You can call that opinion if you like, I call it truth. Regardless..We all still have the right to express what we believe in.

If anyone would like to get more information on Christian Theology please feel free to pm me.

Ohhhh, do we have an internet evangilist starting up here? Only time will tell, be sure to give him your credit card number and send money as well.

Dont think anyone is born evil. Evil is the side effect of someone's life, say like a bad childhood upbringing.

People do what is called evil for self gratification....ego problems.

or a result of bad company

Are some people born evil? Evil by who's standards? According to Christian fundamentalists? Muslim extremists? Atheists? Social conservatives? Social progressives? No a person cannot be born "evil" as the quality of a person is not defined by what they are, but by what they do - and what people do is interpretted in different ways by different people. Babies do very little other than eat, shit and cry, and annoying as that may be at times I don't consider it evil.

(On a side note ever notice how if you break down the word fundamentalist you get fund-a-mental-ist, couple that with tithing in evangelical churches... interesting coincidence)

fund-a-mental-ist

Or. you can get....fun....a mental, as oh wow...a mental person...and fun too.

Originally posted by Wild_7
Dont think anyone is born evil. Evil is the side effect of someone's life, say like a bad childhood upbringing.
Actually it's those who were raised perfectly fine who tend to be the most pompus and ungrateful. This isn't exactly a great example of good versus evil, but let's look at the band creed and green day.

Creed's band are known for being squeeky clean. They don't drink, do drugs, they're good old fashioned chor boys. The lead vocalist came from a broken home, his father was an absolute ***** who treated him like shit. But his faith in God insured things would get better, which they did for him. But not before years of hunger, pain, beatings, and hopelessness.

Greenday's band are drug abusing idiots neither. But they're fairly whiney and angst the members, and they have a perfectly good family. Infact the lead singer's father loved him very much and even as a child they sung together as an amatuer band. There was always bonding and positive moments. And look how he reapys his deaubts, byt making stupid shit songs like American Idiot.

Evil helps keep the ***** that is human beings inline..

i hate humans