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whos the strongest and best hero/villian there is?


for me, deadpool and spiderman

well, it depends. do you mean physical strength? if so, i'm gonna have to question spiderman and deadpool. and myself, the strongest ppl are wonderman, and juggernaut. please explain what you mean!!!

hulk if he gets pissed enough.

Hulk, Wonderman, Superman, Juggernaut, Namor and some other guys.

Hulk. Period. His strength is LIMITLESS, as long as he is alive to get angrier. That's it, he is the strongest. Period. Wait, let me add another...Period.

Nah, juggey can beat the hulk, and his upper boundaries of strength have never been established, cause hes to damn lazy to train that hard to get to that level.

NOOOO DONT MAKE THIS INTO ANOTHER JUGGERNAUT/HULK THREAD!

Dude, Hulk's strength is LIMITLESS, ok, as strong as Juggernaut can get, Hulk can get STRONGER. i.e. If Juggernaut topped out at 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons, Hulk can go up to 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 tons, and higher.

i think hulk is on the juice

LOL!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!
LOL!!!!! You say the funniest shit bardock!

spider-man is the best hero but i say that coz he;s my fave i'n ot gonna get all technical in this thread....best villian....carnage,sinister,magneto, joker, two face

Howard the duck all the way.

if have you see guy drinking pop in x men 345 he would kill all in his path. unfornuately felt he was to good and he was never seen agian.

Imagine the hulk, drunk...

Hey buddy! Closing time!
WHAT???
Closing time ya dumbass, get out, your drunk.
HULKKKK SMASHHH YOU!
Oh shit... Not again.

imagine the bar fight.

Buddy, im gonn have to cut you off.
WHAT?
Dude, youve had enough, im cutting you off.
HULK SMASH YOU CANDY ASS!
Oh... Not again.... No...

in news today 10 bouncers were brutally killed at shooting aces sports bar more at ten

LOL!!! Freggin... freggin hilarious!

That's a lot of periods. But Hulk's strength varies wildy; he's only the strongest superhero a fraction of the time.

And it seems to me that there should be a theoretical limit to how angry one can get, but I guess Marvel disagrees.

the upper limits of Jugs strength have not been tested but they were not as high as War's or Onsloughts..War is Hulk and Hulk showed he was on the same strength level as Onslaught...and he held up a 150 billion ton mountain in the secret wars...Jugs has picked up a couple big things...ummm, picking up the weight of that entire dimension was kinda ambiguous, we have no idea how much it weighed, maybe it was just a couple tons, we will never know...regardless, when it comes to Strength, the Hulk is the Marvel character that personiphies strength...Captain America=courage...the Thing=toughness/stubborness Juggernaut=greed/cowardace....

ok, sorry i'm gonna have to break this out though: marveldirectory.
hulk can lift about 100 tons but that's only extreme anger. so what it says is that if he's really mad, he can lift 100 tons. now, i didn't go hunting for someone stronger, but i looked at wonderman. close but not quite. 95 tons. next, i looked at hercules. bingo! ding ding!! 100 tons. already someone cn lift as much as the hulk all the time and the hulk has to be mad all the time. the second person i looked at was stronger. don't believe me? see for yourself!
http://www.marveldirectory.com

i dont need to see for myself, why dont u just read the last fight the Hulk and herculese had....hulk came very close to murdering him....herc was bleeding everywhere and all his bones must have been broken cuz he couldnt move and was just limp...he could stilll barely speak and just asked his father to forgive the Hulk....how valiant, but he still got stomped

Hell if thats the case assassin we would have to but everybody who fits in the class 100 section.Not all of them are in that class anymore so we can't go by that.

Jug is invincible, so, strength wise he isnt to good. But, the cytorak dimension does supply him with enough power, to theoretically, Break the string theory... And lift the weight of a dimension.

Hulk's BASE STRENGTH is 100 tons, he gets much stronger the angrier he gets. Ok, you got me, Grey Hulk's base strength is 75 tons, but he still gets stronger the madder he gets. I hate to use this example, but Hulk has proven to be in the 150 billion ton class. Don't believe me? See for yourself! Pick up the Secret Wars series. #4.

http://comicbookcovers.dyndns.org/comicsdb/covers/SW4.JPG

Oh yea, before you go arguing this, go to the top right corner of the forum window, enter "hulk" and click "search" then read ANY thread there, and you'll see countless posts backing this statement: Hulk's strength is LIMITLESS.

Ya know what, too many people think the hulk is the greatest, hes THE BEST, WRONG! You know how freggin mad hed have to get in a normal battle to lift a freggin mountain again? He owuldnt even get that mad! Hes only class 150 billion... in ONE COMIC. Where are you? Cause there are newer comics.

Sure its limitless... You know how mad, how superly angry... how impossibly mad hed have to get in a normal battle to be that strong again???

yes there r newer comics...but i dont why u would say that when u dont even know the current Jugs is on the x-men and weak

Of course there are newer comics, but that's not the point, the point is that he already did it. I never said he was the BEST, I said he was the STRONGEST. Hulk isn't even close to the top of my favorite characters list, but he has proven again and again that he is the strongest. I suggest reading the other threads, like ''Juggernaut vs Hulk'', or any other ''Hulk vs'' thread.


I'm beginning to consider that most people don't know what the word "Limitless" means.

Hulk isnt the strongest. Ya know what im begging to wonder if people know what invincible means too? The new imposternaut sux total ass.
Anyways, hul isnt the strongest. He has to turn that way. Right now id say wonderman or hercules is, cause hulk starts out about class 70, so hes not the strongest, only when hes mad, then hes not the strongest anymore.

Invincable doesn't mean strong, it means you can't be hurt. It has nothing to do with strength. Hulk doesnt start out at class 70, he starts at class 100. You posted in the Juggernaut vs Hulk thread, why don't you try reading a few pages of it?

I know... I know... I cant read anything... Whatever, I dont care anymore. Juggernaut sucks, whatever you guys say.

the only version that starts at 75 is grey Hulk...professor starts at about 100....and the rest are far stronger

I never said Juggernaut sucks, but if it'll end the argument, then ok.

my 2 cents.....hulk can be the strongest, no doubt in my mind. thor, herc. juggernaut,im not sure of colouses, but hes probally up there also. but besides hulk, i would just say thor or juggernaut are the strongest.

Yep, hulk definatly, the reason why he isnt the strongest, is cause hes only the strongest when hes mad.

If your gunna say Thor, then I'm going to add Thanos, because he fough Thor and Thing at the same time, and whooped ass. Thanos's strength is only limited by his cosmic/mystical/dark/whatever energy. He hasn't run out yet, and i doubt he ever will.

well this is interesting but there are far stronger people than hulk or juggernaut. let me say a few things about thor too. thor has never proven stronger than juggernaut. in thier most rescent fight he got trashed literally. juggernaut totally outclassed him. juggernaut in a weakened state has also overpowered prime who was able to stalemate thor also. thor is versatile no doubt, but stronger than hulk or juggernaut??? no. thor shouldn't even be tossed into the mix. now let's look at hulk vs. juggernaut. Hulk DID hold up the 150 billion ton's. it did happen in continuity. but who's to say that juggernaut cannot perform this feat of strength??? let me explain.....

Juggernaut vs. hulk. thier first battle. hulk was said to be "on the virge of insanity" with rage. he had been raging for nearly 2 days unable to break free from the hulk busters cage. yet when juggernaut was transported into the cage, he started swinging at the walls.... which inturn immediately started to bulge outward ready to burst. once free, hulk fought an army batallion, and was more enraged when witnessing juggernaut trying to kill a family of tourists. being on the virge of insanity, then fighting the army, and watching juggernaut try to kill a family yet STILL PROVED UNABLE TO OVERPOWER JUGGERNAUT. i'd call that "pretty damn angry" for a thousand alex. but wasn't any stronger than juggernaut. he he he. top that if you can. onslaught, onslaught onslaught........

he telepathically assaulted juggernaut (something he cant do to hulk). the first battle wasn't shown. do you all remember the time when hulk was knocked out by an ordinary python??? talk about bad writing eh.... that's right, onslaught and the python are all bad writing. let's leave it at that.


now on to who i think is the strongest. this is great. i have 3 possibilites. apocalypse, subdued the hulk with the greatest of ease (although it was a weaker/smarter version) how many people can do that ??? said to have unlimited strength.

possibility number 2...... the destroyer.... literally beat up on hulk. how many people can do that?? strength never been accurately measured. so its a possibilty.

but more than likely i give it to possibility number 3..... MANGOG. easily overpowerd thor in less than 1 issue AND knocked him unconscious. easier than hulk or juggernaut have ever been proven able to do. has given odin fits just using brute strength. odin has been able to destroy entire solar systems at times yet was only able to defeat mangog by separating him from his power source. who is the ultimate??? who is powered by a billion billion beings?? oh, by the way, before he knocked thor unconscious he pulped nearly all the rest of asgard (except odin whom was entrapped at the time).

i'll agree with greed...... but cowardace??? let's see, challenged eternity his benefactor (cyttorak) twice. or 3 times, cant remember off hand. has never ran from a fight (except onslaught *sigh*). challenged beyonder when all the other villains had fallen. when stripped of his flessh blood and organs he simply refused to fall and got angry. thor depowered cain by negating the mystical energy yet still refused to fall from a barrage of thor's blow's and continued to fight. what exactly are you trying to say by that???

Thanos has done the same.

Do you just choose to ignore the fact that when people talk about Hulk's strength, they use the word "Limitless"? Marvel themselves have used it. That means that as long as he is alive to get angrier, he can become stonger than anyone. Hulk "insane with rage" should have been able to pound Juggernaut. I call that battle bad writing.

But thanos has never dispatched thor as easily as mangog has. also, thanos took everything that odin had to offer and survived yes. which is a feat in itself. but mangog not only did that but was beating up asgard (thor and odin included). until he was cut off from his power supply.

oh by the way...... hulk didn't pound juggernuat. so deal with it. hes not stronger than mangog. he's not stronger than the destroyer. he is even debated with about juggernaut. whom he's never proven superior to. deal with it. i'll call hulk being "the strongest one there is" bad writing because it's clear that he is not.

also, the destroyers strength is said to be limitless..... he doesn't even have to get angry. he beat the hulk. handily at that. apocalypse is said to have "limitless" strength and he easily subdued hulk. he doesn't have to get angry either to get stronger. he just simply uses the strength needed. so who's really stronger???

oh by the way..... marvel also directly compares juggernaut and hulk as being rivals in strength.

The strongest is whoever's strength is limitless, Hulk, Apocalpse, Destroyer and whoever else has limitless strength. It's assumed Thanos has limitless strength, so he's up there. F*ck Mangog, Thanos is second to noone.

do you even know who mangog is?? he has done things physically that nobody else has proven capable of doing. EVEN THANOS. hulk isn't up there..... he can't even overpower juggernaut. even apocalypse said he has long wondered who was more powerful, himself or juggernaut so i'm skeptical at best, to put him near the top. mangog is stronger than hulk/juggernuat and possibly apocalypse. the destroyer is another toss up. he roughly rivals mangog at best. i'd still be leaning towards mangog though. the only one i can think of that could have at one time possibly been stronger than mangog is the original champion of the universe. when first written he was at galactus level power and used nothing but physical force and fighting technique. he shattered an entire planet with a punch. but since he has first appeared he has been depowered significantly.

Hahahaha....yea but Thanos and Drax have both smashed the Champion of the Universe....and who said the destroyer beat up the Hulk?....r u talking about when Maestro was in control of the destroyer and attack Hulk with it...they fought to a draw...then the Hulk took over part of the Destroyer's consciousness too and shut his visor as he unleashed his disentigrator beam....which really ****ed his insides up i guess....then Maestro's body was crushed by an avalanche of bolders....when has the Hulk not been strong enough to do something?...never...marvel directory is not an accurate website, only about 50% of the time...its not edited by marvel, its made by some person....Im talking about comic books...Jugs has been shown that he is weaker than the Hulk and and Onslaught...War kicked his ass and would have killed him if absorbing man hadnt jumped in, then he almost got killed too...i think Apoc punked Jugs once too? i never read it but only heard about it....maybe one of u has read it...and who said Thanos never beat up Thor like Mangog has?...Thanos knocked out Thor with two punches and if the Thing hadnt been there he would have knocked him out sooner...Thanos has taken on Tyrant, he would devestate mangog...here's another nice fact...in Hulk's first appearance he was grey and only superhuman 25...however, he is always getting stronger and his base strength increases with the more radiation he absorbs....just like the Thing....thats why Maestro's base strength was over twice that of professor's....Jugs strength is always the same...well actually he has gotten weaker but oh well....and yes this thread is about who is the strongest....I go with Hulk, as u already know

first of all i hadn't said that thanos couldn't take thor. but he didn't do it as easily as mangog did. mangog also used all of asgard as his appetizer. he has even taken what odin has EASIER than what thanos ever dreamed of doing. like i said.... mangog was only defeated by odin because he was separated from his power source. something odin cannot do to thanos. he straight up physically beat odin. the destroyer outright wrecked the hulk in their confrontation. anybody who says otherwise has obviously not read the issue. NO apocalypse has never "punked" juggernaut as you have said. apocalypse said "juggernaut seemed a viable test of celestial might" and that he had long wondered who's power was greater his own or juggernaut's. when has juggernaut NOT proved himself against hulk??? again, you people do not listen to reason. you say that i'm a fanboy when you refuse to except facts also. hulk in any incarnation/form has yet to prove stronger than juggernaut. save war, whom was exponentially boosted in power. no if's, and's or buts about it.

onslaught again, you people cling to him as your "savior" when in reality it was a telepathic assault that did juggernaut in. something he cannot do to hulk, which is why he didn't do it to hulk.

and i doubt war hulk would have killed juggernaut. do you have proof that it would have killed him??? because i think it's been seen that physical force cannot stop/kill juggernaut time and time again. please, feel free to prove me wrong if you think you can.

also, thanos didn't engage the champion when they "fought", he simply stole the infinity gem that was in his possession. it wasn't a fight. also, i said champion when he first appeared. when did drax and him fight? feel free to answer these questions whenver you feel you have the information at hand.

hulk is not stronger than the destroyer he has never proved otherwise. hulk is not stronger than apocalypse and he has never proven otherwise. hulk is not stronger than juggernaut and has never proven otherwise (except in war hulk form which was *tired of repeating myself* EXPONENTIALLY boosted in power and strength). even then the fight wasn't that lopsided. feel free to "prove" your side by saying hulk is stronger. so he lifted 150 billion ton's. but there is no reason to think that apocalypse the destroyer or juggernaut couldn't do the same, seeing how they are -atleast- hulks equal in strength. which i think mangog is stronger yet still. he is powered by the hate of a thousand worlds... a billion billion beings. on top of that he was powerful before he recieved this additional power.

not to mention that during the infinity guantlet thor didn't do to bad against thanos whom had the gems at his side and was way above optimal levels of power. he he he. whatever dude.

"....when has the Hulk not been strong enough to do something?...never"

WRONG. he has never proven strong enough to overpower juggernaut without outside assistance. same goes for apocalypse, and same goes for the destroyer. please stop saying hulk is the strongest. again, it is clear that he is not. oh, do you remember when hulk was knocked out by a regular ordinary python??? it was even the savage hulk that it happened to.

man....u r soo way off it isnt even funny....just because u havent seen the issue doesnt mean it didnt happen....Drax has knocked out the Champion with one punch...i will find the issue but it did happen....champion was chasing surfer all issue then surfer lead him to drax and Champion started running his mouth and talking shit to drax.....drax just hit him once and Champion went into the ground like a nail and was knocked out...i said Thanos knocked out Thor with 2 punches...and Thor was fighting him with the Thing!!!....the first punch wasnt even directed at Thor!!!...and u said Mangog did it easier....didnt back it up with an issue number or describe the battle, which i have read, and yes Mangog did kick his ass but Thanos just swung his arm and Thor was unconscious...Tyrant proved he wasnt even stronger than Thanos....Tyrant who easily dispatched the surfer, morg, terrax, and gladiator at the same time? he blasted Thanos with enough energy to incinerate a planet and all it did was burn off his shirt....u keep on talking about War....war is just a suped up version of professor, like i have told u countless times....savage/Mindless/Guilt Hulk are all far stronger than the professor incarnation and that includes War...at the end of the issue War just tears off his costume and leaps away?...so if archangel tears off his costume and flies away isnt he still archangel? hmmm...so if War was such a big enhancement what happened?....did he just have to tear off his costume and drop his sword to lose this enhancement...when did destroyer beat the Hulk? r u talking about Hulk issue #461?...i have it right in front of me and the Hulk wins man....u should stop telling lies on here and not backing anything up so that people who havent read the comics believe u

when champion first appeared he was at galactus level of power. with each new appearance he got weaker and weaker and weaker, until he finally met up with people that could beat him. like surfer, and drax for that matter. but originally he would have wrecked them both. as for mangog and thor's battle it was in vol. 2 #21. check it out. oh since nobody has read the destroyer/hulk fights but you why don't you fill in everybody on what happens.

have you read hulk 456/457????????? just curious. apocalypse takes hulk and puts him in a machine that dampens his healing factor. the he implants the celestial tech into his body. the celestial tech boosts his strength, but it also allows him to harness the energy from the heroe's reborn universe AND the main stream marvel universe. he had celestial tech (possibly the most advanced technology in the universe) and was the focal point of 2 universes worth of energy. he over powered juggernaut (not by much) something that savage hulk couldn't do. so how do you come to your conclusion that he wasn't more powerful?? hulk supported 150 billion tons....... war hulk threw one of the great pyramids with the greatest of ease...... he could have lifted the mountain too. please do more research. i dont' even think you have these issues you speak of. i think you recite second or third hand information.

do you remember when hulk got knocked out by a regular python??

yes but like i said...in his first appearance he was only class 25....he would have gotten smashed by present Day Rhino...however, he is constantly getting stronger

why did u ask me if had read 457?....i just quoted it to u a moment ago

anybody can dig up a quote. i was wondering if you read the issue. because you don't seem to think that hulk was boosted in power and strength. when in reality he was. his armaments allowed him to harness 2 universes worth of energy. even i wouldn't say that juggernaut is more powerful than that. yes it is a win for hulk, but it's not a normal level of power. it's hulks ONLY win against juggernaut. even you shouldn't say that the other hulks are that powerful.... it's just not right.

but the other Hulks r more powerful...they possess limitless strength..its like saying 2 universes of energy is more than infinite....its just not smart man....2 universes? isnt that kinda vague?...does that mean 2 Hulks?....or does that mean War has as much energy as our entire universe times 2? i think u asumed it did....i simply thought it meant he was twice as strong as proffessor...which would make him almost as strong as maestro....and still far weaker than mindelss hulk or a very angry savage Hulk....twice the power of the entire universe?...that is foolish to assume, the celestials are powerful but they r not that powerful...they r part of the universe...so would that mean that War was more powerful than the celestials? or that a very powerful and intelligent Apoc was able to wield Celestial technology better than they themselves can?...i dont think so...Apoc is powerful but not on a celestials level....he probably just a pawn doing their will and doesnt even know it...2 universes?...kinda vague

banner was in one universe and hulk was in the other, so since they are the same person he was the focal point of 2 universes worth of energy. apocalypse picked up on this which was the point of the mini series. the celestial tech allowed hulk to better harness that energy. he was way more powerful than the "professor". i think you are assuming things because you have not read the entire series but bits and pieces. and who says the celestials are not that powerful?? you?? ha ha ha. they are above galactus, and melted the indestructable destroyer to slag. that is a 2000 ft tall destroyer at that. yet they arnt that powerful?? but this isn't about the celestials power, this is about the celestial tech. said to be the most advanced anywhere in the universe that has to say something my friend. i think it's silly also to have hulk as the focal point for 2 universes worth of energy, but it happened and you cant dispute facts. so we are just at an impass. i say war, you say savage.

let me say one last thing, i don't think you are understanding what i'm trying to say. let's take savage hulk, at base level starts at let's say 100 tons. he has to get mad to reach 150 tons. then even more mad to reach 200 tons..... then 300 and so on. yes his strength is "limitless". but war hulk didn't have to get angry to do that. 300 tons he needed to lift, he just summoned the energy. 50,000,000 tons needed lifting, he just summoned the energy. he had 2 universe worth of energy, how on earth do you get that he isn't the most powerful form of hulk???

For me the BEST superhero is Batman as for the STRONGEST I'm not sure...Superman,Hulk...

Strength Levels
CLASS 100

Watchers Shaper of Worlds Binary
Thor Dragon Man Juggernaut
Galactus Ego Abomination
Beta Ray Thor Nimrod II Hulk
Surtur Odin Orka (in water)
Hercules Maelstrom Terminus (enhanced by armor)
Stranger Kurse Absorbing Man
Gladiator Forgotten One Iron Man I (enhanced by armor and sufficiently powerful energy sorce)
Mephisto Silver Surfer War Machine (enhanced by armor and sufficiently powerful energy sorce)
Magus Apocalypse Atlas
Ymir Magneto Utgard-Loki
Thanos Joseph Leir

all these fellas are class 100 so take your pick.

the celestials are not the most powerful beings in the universe...they r very powerul...however the collective might of the celestials is equal to the collective might of the watchers....and they both possess vast technology..but Galactus' power is cyclical...sometimes he is full of energy and sometimes he is not...however his intelligence is constant and he is more intelligent than either the watchers or celestials in my opinion and he has the Ultimate Nullifier...also, eventually Galactus will consume both the watchers and the celestials as the FF have travelled to the future of another dimension and witnessed it...so the celestials r not all powerful..regardless..Apoc is not a celestial, he is just a child who found their left over technology...so i dont think he is able to make the Hulk as powerful as two entire uinverses because that would entail two universes that contain celestials also...so how could he create something more powerful than celstials by using their own technoligy?....i understand what u r saying...but i dont think the Hulk starts at 100 tons...u do...i think that any version of the Modern hulk could also pick up the pyramids....thats why i say he is the strongest...but regardless War or not....he still kicked Jug's ass...thus Hulk is the winner

i think you need to do more research. the celestials are above galactus in power. stop refering to alternate realities. they have no bearing on main stream marvel. the watchers power is less than that of galactus, and galactus is less than that of celestials. they constitute the next level of power. they are not the most powerful beings however. i do agree with that. but they are more powerful than the watchers or galactus. when the universe was up against thanos in the end, you don't see the entire race of watchers going up against him do you?? plus hulk didn't just lift the pyramid, the threw it (a good ways at that). without so much as breaking a sweat. we all have our own opinions, but i still stick by what i said. you said "hulk kicked jugs ass... thus hulk is the winner, but vice versa has also happened. the only difference is that juggeraut has done it at a normal level of power without any power ups, and hulk has not. so who's really the winner my friend? so whatever works... to each his own. i guess we will have to come to an impass at this yet again.

also it's not the tech itself that made him so powerful. it just allowed him to harness the energy. war hulk was made to battle celestials but that doesn't mean that he would have one. the destroyer to was made to battle celestials, but it failed miserably. but it does't change the fact that war hulk seemed emmensly powerful. he might not have fought as ferociously as some of the other hulk forms, but he had every bit as much potential of reaching incalculable amounts of strength, if not more so.

i some how dont think spider-venom ment strongest in the way in he gave his top picks for "strongest".

i think he meant favorite. but at this point in the forum i guess it's two cents worth to point that out.,

If that's the case, I think Spider-venom should stay awake in English class.

btw strongest potential mutant might be rouge or absorbsion man (although we all saw the movie)

strongest of all time Doomsday guy, he is utterly invincible. He outshies hulk juggy, everybody in everyway.

The living tribuanl's strength... he doesnt have it is how much he has, from the base. So, bye bye hulky. Cause tribunal HAS WAY WAY WAY MORE strength, any strength hulk has, tribunal has more. If he wishes for it, that is.

tribunal is the strongest, end of story. buh bye/.

Not even close.

NOT EVEN CLOSE!

The living tribunal! Lets do the tribunal dance, wee waaahhh weee wahh! cheeko chekoo! Tribunal!
The living tribunal, He will own your ass. Take you down to kingdom come. If he wants you gone, youll be deleted it within a milisecond. If he hates god, he can make him cry... uhh... If blade licks blood, he can take the blood away!!!
De doooooo The living tribunal!
Well... Hes not really a candidate... SEEING IS HOW HES THE OVER SEER OF EVERYTHING.

Howard the duck.

howard rules

Howard rules EVERYONE. Because hes a duck, and he can use swords and hes a master of quack fu...
He Freggin killed Dracula!

wanna whats funny most of these strong peolpe have never stepped foot in gym. that is why i say hulk is talkin roids as i said earlier. he could not pass the tinkle test.

wow thats really clever to say the tribunal is the strongest....but if u want to get into the super powerful types...TOAA is the strongest, followed by THOTU

well, after howard, its TOAA andTHOTU

Yea, Living Tribunal does have a master, so that makes him at least second.

dude Iam on my knees beggin anybody to tell me what hulk or juggernaut can do that doomday cant. Have we all forgotten that whenver he's defeated by a froce more powerful than himself he respawns impervious to that force, besides I dont think anyone in marvel other than those cosmics could beat him any way. and guess what he's just gonna come right back, stronger than ever

ok, well as doomsday gets stronger, and hulk realizes hes outmatched, hell get pissed off, and become stronger than doomsday yet again. doomsday' s way overated.(not saying hulk isnt sometimes)

i agree that doomsday is more powerful/stronger than hulk or juggernaut. but i was simply refering to marvel.... i'm not extremely up-to-speed when it comes to the dcu i admit. but in terms of marvel, i still think it's mangog.

my bad lets just stick to Marvel then

you don't have to stick to marvel, it's just that's what i was doing. but in dc, i think doomsday has potential to be the hardest hitter, if we want to discuss that also.

well, he could definitely punch faster than both hulk and jugs, so he probally does hit the hardest, seeing as how hes probally stronger than the two of them.

the reason I choose doomsday overwhelmingly is becuase right now in DC cont... Doomsday has returned after being killed by Imperiex, who is Dc's Galactus so I would imagine than he's stronger than anybody right now.

ya, probally, definiteley after coming back from that.

maybe we should keep out cosmic beings like tribunal out of this... it just isn't fair to hard working characters. strongest would be mangog in my opinion. he fairly manhandled thor unlike any i've ever seen.

Ever wondered who was the strongest in the Marvel and DC Universes (without the idiotic fanboyism)? Here is a nifty list for you:

1. Darkseid (on average)/Thanos/Doomsday/Despero/Kurse/Agogg/Pre-Crisis Kryptonians/Byrne's Gladiator/Morg w/ WOL/ Post-Crisis Mongul(under his best depictions)/The Hulk (angry far beyond most of the time)/Brimstone/Validus/Surtur (on average though he varies wildly)/Jurgens Mangog

2. Count Nefaria/original strength Abomination/The Maestro (base)/The Juggernaut/The Hulk (very angry)/Ultron/Superman (Loeb/Casey/Schultz --- basically Supes during most of the Bergenza era)/Mr. Majestic/The Infinity Man/Mantis/Pre-resuretion Thanos/Apocalypse/Ares (DC)/Post-Crisis Mongul (on average)/Black Zero/Zeus (Marvel or DC)/Odin(Marvel or DC, not amping their strengths)/Highfather (not amping his strength)

3. Superman (Kelly/Jurgens/Byrne/Morrison/most pre-Bergenza writers)/The Hulk (normal anger)/Thor/Morg/Terrax/Firelord (when amping his strength)/Orion/M'onel/Legion Kon-El/Lobo/Steppenwolf/Captain Marvel/Kalibak/Namor (submerged)/Slig/Gladiator/Ulik/The Abomination/Wonder Man/Hercules (Marvel)/Ultra Boy/Cyborg Superman/Ikarus/Morlun

4. Etrigan/Wonder Woman/Big Barda/Powergirl/Namor (damp)/Martian Manhunter/Herakles (DC)/The Silver Surfer (amping his strength)/Vision at maximum density/current Teen Titans Kon-El/The Thing (I know I'll catch hell for this but I really beleive this is where Benjy is normally portrayed, damn the handbook)/Lightray/Nova (Frankie)/Air-Walker/Captain Atom/Grayven/Maxima/Malefic/The Rhino/Knockout/The Sandman/

5. She-Hulk/Titania/Supergirl (Matrix)/current Sensor/Orion (when he was younger, like around the age he was when The Hunger took place)/Kanto/Granny Goodness/Mr. Hyde/Dr. Doom/Kesel-era Superboy/The Vision (mximum density)/Thena

6. Mr. Miracle (on average, though he varies wildly)/Sersi/Circe/Ares (Marvel)/Thundra/Valkyrie/Venom/Dr. Octopus's arms (on average)/The Black Tarantula/Shathra

7. The Enchantress/Ghost Rider/The Scorpion/The Molten Man/Tigra (DC)/Hogun the Grim

Now can anyone point out the errors?

wich Scorpion? if it was Marc Gargan*the green guy from Spiderman* he is class 12,one above Venom.............
Rhino and Sandman check out, the hover about the same level as the Thing

Mr. Hyde dosent sound right...I think he should be up higher not sure tho.....Firelord....I didnt know he can amp his strength....I thought class 50 was it for him

Dr. Doom, he could only lift 2 ton's right? I think he is a tad high up.....

thats all i get from a first glance....

what about Superman Prime?

Lobo should be on the same level as Etrigan, I think; they fight a lot in the The Demon series, and there's never a clear winner.

good point.

but Etrigan is immortal and Lobo just has a really strong healing factor

but this is based on strength, not immortality

And actually, Lobo is immortal too; neither Heaven nor Hell is willing to take him, so Death was forbidden to take his soul.

Hahahaha Hulk is in the top 3. All 3 of the top 3.

"what about Superman Prime?"

Top 1 haha.

-AC

C'mon everybody of course the list is inacurate

I'd put Surfer in the top 3 to be honest.

That's why the tournament I'm trying to do is good for organising somewhat accurate rankings.

*Nudge Nudge* Venom Fan, maybe making the topic Sticky eh? So it stays at the top huh? It will be worth it. Will involve alot of the members also.

-AC

your Roll call thread? I might, being a MOD made it to hard to run the forum and do the official vs thread as well.

If your really up to it you could just take over the official VS disscusion thread? cuase I dont want to have two thread's sticked about almost the exact same topic.

OR I could merge your thread into the OVDT, and retitle it into the second KMC comic tourney....or somthing to that extent

Never, what's WOL in Morg w/ WOL. i think surfer should be in the same level with thor and terrax. hulk being in the 1st bracket is questionable, i know he has the potential to be that strong but i don't think he has the capacity to be that angry. is the thanos we're talking about the thanos without the infinity gauntlet? i always thought odin was stronger than thanos w/o infinity gauntlet. i also think odin is stronger than doomsday.

where's juggernaut and colossus?

on the overall, i think the list is pretty much accurate... considering it must have taken a lot of research (or memory) to produce that list.

nevers like a frickin living comic encyclopedia.

yeah he is...id take his word over most people

Mmm, of course some are placed in questionable areas for the sake of stimulating debate as well as challenging the overall comic knowledge of those who...claim to possess it. Just a little test of sorts, ya know?

WOL = Waters of Life. Nice resource here: http://marvelite.prohosting.com/surfer/profiles/morg.html

I am not certain if your opinions are also questions (aside from the obvious ones), so will respond to the direct questions (and can respond to the others if you like).

Thanos is definitely with The Infinity Gauntlet - however, at base levels, he is still considered stronger than Hulk. Says who, you ask? Says none other than Peter David (who wrote Hulk for 12 years). The question?

"Do you think that Thanos is on a physical strength level higher than Hulk at any time you were writing (meaning various incarnations)?"

David's response?

"Yeah, probably. Thanos is kind of in his own weight class."

Juggernaut? UNDER Hulk where he SHOULD be regardless of what other...fans, shall we say, would have people think.

2. Count Nefaria/original strength Abomination/The Maestro (base)/The Juggernaut/<----------

Colossus? Left him out (oopsie) - would **personally** drop him towards the bottom of category 4.

Tetra-Grammaton, eh? I liked that movie alot; the special effects were pretty good even though it was pre-Matrix.

Did you make this list yourself?

I think Cyborg Superman and Hulk are difficult to pin down to any one strength. Hulk gets stronger as he gets madder, and the Cyborg is as strong as whatever machine he's controlling.

Hulk has how many incarnations?

hey Never....where would u place the Thing after his second mutation?

"where's juggernaut and colossus?"

Down the Blue Oyster.

"Hulk has how many incarnations?"

Joe Fixit (Grey Hulk), Guilt Hulk, Savage Hulk (Green Hulk), Professor Hulk, The Maestro Hulk, Banner-controlled Hulk, Mindless Hulk, Devil Hulk, Ultimate Savage Hulk, Savage Banner and Post HR Hulk.

-AC

Devil and Guilt

HAS EVERYONE FORGOTTEN BLACKBOLT??!?!?!?!

jesus he's so strong he cant even use his true powers. he's no doubt the strongest. vocally

http://www.hulklibrary.com/hulk/info/hulk-incarnations.asp - that has all of Hulk's incarnations (for whoever wants to know)

Low category 3? I'm not sure but he is allegedly pretty damn strong now.

I am aware of Hulk's many incarnations - that is why Hulk is listed in more than one category

The Thing is underrated amongst strong man characters I think.

-AC

by second mutation im talking about the spiky Thing that u saw from like 1988-1992

i think that there are too many incarnations of the Hulk.

He doesn't use em all and will probably never use half of em again.

-AC

anyone got aa picture of the spikey thing"?

what about war hulk???????

http://www.geocities.com/hulksmashes/hulk457-juggernaut.html

WHERES IRONMAN IN THAT LIST

hey iron man calm down.

thor has admitted that with a sufficient power source iron-man would probably be able to mop the floor with the thunder god..... but thats with a sufficient power source.

hulk the most powerfull in strengh

^^^^^^^^ to each his own. i believe mangog is.

wheres carnage? I saw venom, but isnt carnage stronger??? Even in brute strength, despite appearances. ANd shouldn't spidey be in there somewhere? Probably 1 below venom?

I would have to say Hulk is the strongest character. Not the most powerful, not the fastest. Just the strongest. The hulk was made to be the strongest. He has no limits. Then I would have to say Pre-Crises Superman and Mangog.

if any one really wants to know, the most powerful character of the marvel universe is the one above all{not to be confused with a celestial of the same name}, he is the GOD of the marvel universe.
as far as dc is concerned, there are a three, the first one is probably parallex, with all the rings of the former lantern corp{he could desrtoy multiverses}, then there is spectar, who can have ne power he wants at any level he wants, and then there is GOD{never seen but only heard of}, he gives the spectar his power, but this being is only said to be god, no one can however verify that fact.

Not a fan of reading, huh? This thread is about the strongest, not most powerful. As in who can display the highest feats of physical strength.

in marvel:
hulk
juggernaut
abomination
Wonderman
thing
namor
colossus

granted their are alot more characters one could name that are Cl80-100, but most of those amplify thier strength with magic or cosmic forces so they would be in the "most powerful" category ergo.....they dont count

actauly is be more like
hulk
silver surfer
thanos
glactus
jugg head
abomination
thing
colossus
namor
dont get me wrong this is just better then the list above but it probly not that right. namor so u know is a 70 ton guy not liek colossus who is 100 ton or more

They've changed Namor so he's Class 100 now at full power.

Thanos is generally stonger than Hulk, of course until Hulk gets angry enough. (that's getting really annoying). and Galactus is stronger than both of them. so your list sucks.

Well yeah i'm to say it before any of you since i'm a fan.

I think X-Man goes in #2...at his best. or was there some bias I'm unaware of?

I should clarify : bias meaning only physical strength. if so i apologize.

Thanos is class 100?

most definitly. You can't fight Thing and Thor at the same time and NOT be class 100. You'd get dessimated. Thanos on the other hand, held his own quite well.

Look, i thought we're talking about pure brute strentgh here not people who can increase thier strength with cosmic or magical forces. so as far as this thread would be concerned the likes of thanos, thor, galctus or silver surfer shouldnt be considered

Actually, Thanos is class 100 naturally. He CAN increase his strength through cosmic forces, but at base level he is stlll up there with the best of them.

and same for thor

Hulk in his dumb form can be strong as just about anyone, it not questionable that he should be neat the top of the list. Thor should be much higher, as he is actually slightly stronger than the hulk at his best. And superman might be a little too low on the list as well. As for lobo, he is pretty much neck to neck with demon.

actually, thor isnt really newhere close to the potential strength of the hulk, remever the onslaught happenin, all the heroes of the world includin thor could not even dent the armour of onslaught but once jean took away the rational mind on bruce banner through telepathy, the hulk became so enraged that he RIPPED apart onslaught's armour, so whose the stronger thor or hulk? n dont forget that when i say all the heroes of the earth combined, i also mean some pretty powerful villians like juggernaut.

Thor is slightly weaker than Hulk and Slightly stronger than Jugs and Herc...although saying he is slightly stronger than Hulk is kinda confusing. A calm Hulk held up 150 billion tons in secret wars and Thor has lifted the Jormungad...Jugs has demonestrated some ambiguous feats of strength and Herc has lifted the entire island of Manhattan.

Every source i have ever had which indicates strength indicates that Thor is stronger than the Hulk. It is a little weird though, because Hulk has a seemingly limitless source of strength. And everyone should note that most comic book characters at one time or another have had changes made to the exact exent of there powers. Either way Thor is considerably stronger than Juggernaut. And Herc's strength is on par with Thor's.

what source said thor was stronger?

its a pity that abominatoin was powered down just after he was bombarded with those damn rays so he is just a bit stronger than hulk when hulk is not enraged, if he wasnt powered down, he would have been the most powerful as long as brute strength was what ewe r looking at.

yea...Modok said that Abom's strength increases with fear in a similar manner to the way Hulk's increases with anger

1. Drax (no power gem)
2. Abomination
3. Hulk (base)
4. Juggernaut
5. Thor (classic, base)

Agree or disagree?

Heres my list

1. Hulk
2. Juggernuat
3. Thor
4. Colossus(going out on a limb)
5. Abomination

Not to mention cosmic beings like Galactus and LT.

If you got hulk really, REALLY mad I think he could be the strongest in both universes. Of course something really bad would have had to have happened in order to make him that angry, like not inviting him to your birthday party or slapping Betty around with a fish.

"Hulk, your mom wore combat boots!"
"No! HULK'S MOM WORE SENSIBLE SHOES!"

I'm going to go with Krissy's list, but I'd exchange classic Thor for current Colossus. And depending upon the incarnations of the characters, maybe switch Hulk and Abom. around. Depends on the day of the week, really.