Organic webbing (NOT a rant)

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Red Superfly
OK, we've been through this organic/webshhoter thing a million times. Those that hated the idea, STILL hate it, and those that like the idea, STILL like it.

Most of you know my position on the whole organic webbing thing by now. When I first came here, I actually agreed that the organics were bad in terms of story. Everybody was under the assumption that organic webbing was BETTER than the webshooters (in terms of a superpower, not the idea). Everybody assumed Peter had an infinite amount of webbing all of a sudden, and would mean the end of the "oh no, out of webbing" storyline twists that Spider-Man fans love so much.

As I thought about this more and more, it became pretty obvious that having organic webbing would pose as many problems as having the web-shooters, and would create just as many interesting twists in the stories and battles.

Seeing as Spider-Man is so heavily steeped in sci-fi and "logic", it would make sense that biologically, Peter simply couldn't hold an infinite amount of webbing in his arms (lest his arms looked like Popeye's), and I thought it would be comparable to any other bodily fluid.

Think of it like spit. You can spit for a while, but not contantly. You need time for your glands to create more spit, and as long as you drink and eat, you'll always create more. It makes sense for this to be in the same manner that Pete creates his webbing, as it's exactly how Spiders make their webbing. It also means organics do not equal infinity. He would need a lot of pressure to fire his webbing great distances, and would therefore need a lot stored in back-supply to create such pressure. This means he couldn't just stand there and fire his webbing all day, it would run out pretty quickly (think spit again).

This got me thinking yet again, sometimes Pete's gonna have his ass handed to him. In the past, when Pete was beaten, his web shooters would malfunction or get damaged - whos to say his own fatigue would

Red Superfly
cont.

create the same problem? Being run down, and weathered, Pete's body would also be exhausted, causing his webbing to either dry up, or become weak and inconsistent. This would create as many "Oh no, out of webbing" issues as the writer sees fit.

So, in all, if we think about organic webbing, it actually makes sense, in any case you throw out.

"But he can't mix things into his webbing to defeat guys like Hydro Man and Electro!"

Um, he could still create and use the webshooters to fight these villains. Having a mix of both organics and the web shooters would be brilliant I must admit.

Organics are not a sin. They don't harm the story, and for someone interested in biology and science fiction such as myself, it's fascinating yet just as realistic (and yes, it's a mere coincidence those web shooters appeared conveniently on his wrists - who cares?).

I like organics. I have'em all worked out I guess, and I'm safe in the knowledge that they pose as many storyline effects as the webshooters ever did. 'Nuff said.

OB1-adobe
I wish I could ask Stan Lee why he decided spider-man would have to make his own web fluid. People were probably wondering about that back in 1962 as well. who knows? I have no doubt there was endless discussions during the pre production of the movie.

Red Superfly
He made his own webbing because Stan Lee thought it would be cool to tap into the "chemistry set craze" which was a big thing at the time of when he was coming up with Spidey.

I'm sure if Stan Lee were to make it today, how Pete fired his webbing would be a lot different because chemistry sets are dead and buried.

Red Superfly
I'd like to hear more from others if possible.

hotsauce6548
that makes a lot of sense, but i didn't really care if the web was shot organically or out of the shooters, i liked 'em both!

FeceMan
A well-thought out, non-crappy, non-spaztic post. Hooray?

VENOMfan
Red Superfly should be famous for great post's. he has a crap load.


well thought out explaination RS thumb up

Red Superfly
I was getting sick of all the crap being spammed onto the forum by certain individuals who shall remain nameless.

It was time to take the limelight from the fanboy one-sentence threads talking about who would be able to beat whom and so on. Those vs. topics are a waste of time.

FeceMan
Ghetto Goblin? He has a lot of spam.

Rhino
people get over it. the movie is only an interpretation of the comic, ofcourse plus organics is cooler. if scientists cant create a strong web fluid, do u think a high skool kid can???obviously not

Ghetto Goblin
Now listen up, i like organic webbing, and if any of you already said what i am about to tough luck, i didn't even read all of the first post.
what is the point of being spiderman if your only power was super strength and wall-crawling. it needs more. and more he got, a.k.a. organic webbing. LIKE SPIDERS DO DUH.

wuTa
RS has a good theory but i like the inorganic webbing better...to me the inorganic webbing shows how human spider-man is and how brilliant parker is...Parker is a brilliant kid who defeats alot of his enemies by outsmarting them....alot of that has been lost in the movies.. even in the last movie they downplayed how smart parker was...when inorganic webbing would run out spider-man would have to think faster and harder how to save his ass...i dont think you would see that with organinc webbing because there is always some type of fluid in you body....even when you have dry glands you can still produce your own spit but movie wise it probly was the smarter choice to go with organic webbing

angiel
at first. the idea of the organic web shooters seemed blasphemous. the best part about having the mechanical shooters, IMO. is that he runs out, and he can totally have his "a$$ handed to him". also the concept of having infinite webbing came along with that. how could he be THE spider-man we grew up with if he always had his webbing? the spider-man we grew up with always had the problem of being empty in the middle of a fight.

spider-man 2 redeemed the organic web shooter concept. as explained by RS, he could go empty when he gets fatigued or stressed... but RS explained it way better (i suggest our members read it eve if it seems long... why? it makes a sh!tload of sense).

Silence

Mr Parker
and yeah like someone is going to be able to somehow miraculously get the powers of a spider from a bite of a genetically altered spider and somehow be able to cling to walls,have super strength,a spider sense that warns him of danger before it happens,ect all from a spiderbite? THATS acceptable but a kid genius doing something scientists cant isnt? .what kind of logic is that? geez. roll eyes (sarcastic)

hotsauce6548
yeah i know...its a comic book...

Spiderman_RJ
why u started this again? aaaaaaaafffffff
parker is so supergenius that becouse of the apearence, i though he was reed richards son untill secret or untold histories come up,i stoped belieiving when his fatheres came back but later on as they were robots i stoped again

badsymbiote
True, Silence, that spiders don't run out of webbing as a general rule, however, they simply cannot spin all of the time. They need food to sustain themselves-like any creature. Many females who spin webs to prtect their egg sacs do so as their last living act. If anyone can understand the exhaustion resulting from being a parent, it is I. It's a pity that the spiders do not get to see the end result of their efforts--yet the instinct to protect them remains.

Anyhow--both Superfly anf wuTa provide compelling arguements. Any true Spidey fan knows full well the power of his intellect--and therefore, to them, the concept of inventing and using web-shooters is not that difficult to grasp. If a kid has the will and ability to solve quaderatic equations and gives a crap about biophysics, his abilties are only limited by his imagination. I felt Spidey2 really didn't showcase Parker's intelligence, but agree that it really didn't need to per se, since it was already alluded to in the first movie.
The use of organic web shooters in the movie did also provide that fascinating slant depicting the stress and strain of being a superhero among a largely thankless society. I could, of course, go into more detail here, but I would basically just be reiterating what Superfly already said. So, if you didn't read the whole post 'cuz it seems too long, take the time and do so. If Stan Lee was that lazy, we wouldn't even have anything to discuss right now.

Spiderman_RJ
wow discovery channel on spiderman forum

Red Superfly
I used to solve quaderatic equations like they were my two times tables. I couldn't do it now though. Biophysics interests me too. This is probably why I love Spider-Man so much, I am so much like Peter it's crazy - although I kinda used him as an example of what NOT to be like, and I ended up having a succesful social life and everything, things that Peter didn't have. Educational and very influential, Spidey was.

I even look like Peter Parker I guess without the glasses. All I need now is a string of stunningly beautiful women to complete the comparison.

How the hell did that guy nail MJ anyway?

Darth Jello
organic webbing makes more sense to me, it can't be synthesised and it's one of the hardest substances on earth, in the same league as diamond, and tooth enamel,

badsymbiote
Just like solving another equation, Superfly. One even I could solve, and one with a fairly simple formula. The good guy always gets the babe in the end. wink
You look like Parker? Well, the chicks'll be along soon enough. Don't fret.

Oh, yeah--nice point, Jello--I don't believe any of us have mentioned the webbing's physical properties.

wuTa
dont u know?.....when u get bit by a geneticly modified spider you just dont get spider like powers you aslo get pimp juice...it makes sense...he never got any chicks when he was peter parker but when he was bit by the spider along came betty brant, mj, felicia harding, gwen stacy...that spider gave him juice

Red Superfly
"Spider-Mojo" lol.

Zephonim
They kinda made it seem like they had been great friends for a really long time when in reality they had only really gotten to know each other in the past two years. She even said at one point that they were best friends, but that could have only been a recent thing.
The web shooter thing has become far more civilized and thought out. Kinda nice to see. I like them both, the mechanical shooters were cool, but I see the organic shooters as more realistic. The idea of a kid creating unheard of mechanics and substances in his room is a little less believable than his DNA being altered by a genetically created spider.

FeceMan
Pimp juice?

Darth Jello
lol, web money shot

I love the organics, my older brother who's a hard-out Spidey fan for ages hated the web-shooters and so do I. The thought of an 18 year-old making fluid like that and web-shooters is stepping into fantasy too much. It makes more sense that the webbing is part of Peters transformation, also what makes him think hes Spider-like if his body can't make web-fluid? he's more like an ant if he has web-shooters......

§words point
organic make spidey a figgin monster thumb down

§words point
possible or not web shooter are 1000000 times better they dont make he a friggin moster

wuTa
why do people keep sayin web shooters are unrealstic....thats more realistic than bein bitten by a geneticly modified spider besides this is a comic book and movie there is no such thing as realism....web shooters show the human side to spider-man...he has to think and stradegize more when he runs out of them ....organics make him pretty close to unbeatable if he runs out of organics he just needs to buy more time until they build back up in his body he doenst even have to think just react

Mr Parker
Exactly,well said.Thats what is so laughable about the apologists who defend those stupid organics.Like I said earlier,its laughable to say that the webshooters are unrealistic when like you just said,if anything,getting the powers of a spider to stick to walls,ect,is a hell of a lot more unrealistic than a kid genius doing something scientists havent been able to do. roll eyes (sarcastic) because just like the well made point you made,its just fantasy,realisem goes out the window? this is after all a guy we are talking about who sticks to walls by the way from a spiderbite. roll eyes (sarcastic)

FeceMan
When I first learned of Spider-Man and that he had been bitten by a radioactive spider, I was extremely disappointed that he did not have organic webbing. I mean, the first thing that I thought of was the silk that spiders produce--how could he NOT have that? If you want something that's more BS than "organics", try spider sense.

Darth Jello
considering that spidey loses his powers at times of extreme stress, it's still possibe that he could have web shooters in the movies as an emergency backup device. again, no way that artificial webbing could be as strong as the organic kind since webbing cannot yet be synthesized.

Red Superfly
In the movie, it's not really his stress.

I posted that theory before I saw the movie, so I apologise for the confusion.

I saw the movie last night (thank you Sam Raimi for developing the characters more than the action), and when he lost his powers, it wasn't really down to his exhaustion. That would be attributed to it, but it was more down to the fact his sub-conscious seemed to be switching his powers off, because deep down he didn't want to be Spider-Man anymore. That was great.

The second movie was a brilliant example of how they could still do the "oh crap, I'm outta webbing" thing. Whether that theory I suggested has anything to do with it makes it even more intriguing - because it was his webbing that started to go kaputt first, making me think it was down to him being exhausted, then later on he decided to give it up in his mind, indicating it was more psychological, yet it seemed to be a combination of both.

But, it was psychological, that much is clear, but it shows Spidey CAN run out of webbing.

wuTa
i still say web shooters....he has to lose all his powers to run out of webbing unlike web shooters but like i've been sayin organic was probly the better choice movie wise

FeceMan
Red, that's exactly what I've been saying. I'm just not sure when I said it.

Rhino
i saw this show called Kapow! Superhero Science. they put a spider gene into a goat embrio and when the goat grew up...the milk from the goat became web fluid, but the liquid form and if u push it through a small hole, it became a web strand, but only 1/10th the strength of normal spider-webs...

i dunno if u guys know this or not but the organic web idea was also used in an older spidey movie i think...if he did have webshooters, the web would run out from just web swinging

myopinion
I would go for organic webbing and here are some points -

Those saying mechanical web-shooters are true to comics should actually read the comics, after success of Raimi's movie version, the comics had Peter evolve to have organic webbing and more spider powers - so organic webbing are now true to comics.

I would find it more logical to believe that someone like Tony Stark with his huge financial backup, industrial resources and background to come up with a Iron Man armor but an school kid who has to shoot pictures for a newspaper to support his aunt financially could develop this kind of web shooting device and keep generating enough of it to be able to cover a city like NY ever night.

Also this thing about arguing that organic webbing should be coming from his mouth, well this is not just a spider, its Spider-Man - if he doesn't mutate to have 8 eyes or legs then it is possible that webbing secretion happens from his hands.

Lastly I agree with comments that organic webbing is linked to physical well-being of Peter so if he is tired or exhausted or has already spun a lot of web, he may still run out of it occasionally.

DARTH POWER
The web-shooters shows what a genius Parker is. This new movie shows what a genius he is.

With the web shooters he can change/upgrade them over time. He could have web-canon's for someone particularly strong or impact webbing, or alter his webbing according to the Villain's weakness e.t.c.

It's much much better this way.

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The web-shooters shows what a genius Parker is. This new movie shows what a genius he is.

With the web shooters he can change/upgrade them over time. He could have web-canon's for someone particularly strong or impact webbing, or alter his webbing according to the Villain's weakness e.t.c.

It's much much better this way.

thumb up

@myopinion: at one point pete even had "organic stingers". Just because they made the change doesn't mean it was a good one. I agree with DARTH POWER 100%. Taking away his web shooters take away from his character.

Mr Parker
Originally posted by myopinion
I would go for organic webbing and here are some points -

Those saying mechanical web-shooters are true to comics should actually read the comics, after success of Raimi's movie version, the comics had Peter evolve to have organic webbing and more spider powers - so organic webbing are now true to comics.

I would find it more logical to believe that someone like Tony Stark with his huge financial backup, industrial resources and background to come up with a Iron Man armor but an school kid who has to shoot pictures for a newspaper to support his aunt financially could develop this kind of web shooting device and keep generating enough of it to be able to cover a city like NY ever night.

Also this thing about arguing that organic webbing should be coming from his mouth, well this is not just a spider, its Spider-Man - if he doesn't mutate to have 8 eyes or legs then it is possible that webbing secretion happens from his hands.

Lastly I agree with comments that organic webbing is linked to physical well-being of Peter so if he is tired or exhausted or has already spun a lot of web, he may still run out of it occasionally.

so you had to bring back this old dead buried thread just to say that? roll eyes (sarcastic) did you even read what you posted? you might follow your own advise and actually read the comics.You just said yourself that AFTER Raimis movies,the comics evolved to him having organic webbing.you cripple your arguments.the movie i suppose to be based off his origin story and his origin story did not have him with organics. laughing rolling on floor laughing laughing out loud laughing laughing

Mr Parker
Originally posted by BlackZero30x
thumb up

@myopinion: at one point pete even had "organic stingers". Just because they made the change doesn't mean it was a good one. I agree with DARTH POWER 100%. Taking away his web shooters take away from his character.

exactly.I am so glad to see they FINALLY got it right and gave us SPIDER-MAN on the screen.yahoo. Happy Dance Not this phony neautered man-spider version of sony Raimis. Organics rapes to death his character because with organics any fool like Flash Thompson could have been bitten by the spider and swing around town as spiderman.The mechs demonstrate his genuis because not just anyone could have the smarts that peter had in the comics to know the exact right kind of chemicals to mix together to create the webbing.

chemical webbing=spider-man
organics=man-spider.

Badabing
I miss the organic webbing. spidur-man

the ninjak
I expected more of the web-shooters in ASM. Creative constructs and all.

Not just straight thin webbings but large burst constructs. They really could've played with that.

DARTH POWER
Originally posted by the ninjak
I expected more of the web-shooters in ASM. Creative constructs and all.

Not just straight thin webbings but large burst constructs. They really could've played with that.

I was quite impressed with the way they were shown this time.

I loved how he shot that robber over the mouth and nose and he couldn't breathe. It just shows even though Spidey's a nice guy, if he really wanted to he could f*** a lot of people up quite quickly and easily.

I also liked the way he had the Lizard completely stuck in webbing at one point.

And this was just his first outing. The great thing about artificial webbing is he can continually improve on them.

myopinion
Mr.Parker - I would like to state again for your benefit and hope you are able to follow this time - Yes! Raimi's Spider-Man was based on origin story of Spider-Man, but with some changes and organic webbing was one of them, based on success of this movie, MARVEL comics accepted organic webbing as power for Spider-Man and after 2004 (after release of movies) also had published stories in comics namely - 'Queen' & 'The Other' - where Peter Parker undergoes further evolution to gain organic webshooters and more powers...

Though 'Queen' wasnt a great evolution story and 'Other' was better, my point is MARVEL COMICS have, though late, accepted organic webbing as power for Peter. so organic webbing are true to comics.

Btw in ASM except for webshooter, I dont see anything close to the comic story, this is anyway more like ULTIMATE series of comics than the original story by Stan Lee in 1960s... so there....

XxbuyakuyaXx
I prefer the Mechanical Shooters. Yeah he did have organics after the the movie . But the thing that I did not like was that In the the first Rami film he had started of with organics, I think it took away from how how smart he was . I would have been okay with him getting the ability maybe later on in the second movie or third to show that his body is still evolving. Sadly it did not play out that way.

BlackZero30x
Originally posted by the ninjak
I expected more of the web-shooters in ASM. Creative constructs and all.

Not just straight thin webbings but large burst constructs. They really could've played with that.

I think they wanted to wait to play up his shooters with enhancements until the next movie!

I hope to see "specialized" webbing at some point!

Mr Parker
Originally posted by Badabing
I miss the organic webbing. spidur-man

s your a man-spider fan huh and liked how they raped to death his character.I see.

Vim
And here I was thinking that he had organic web all along, but the web shooters were to help shoot it in a nice stream in the direction he needed it...

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