Larry Wachowski ; The Many Meanings of The Matrix

Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.

The Matrix is an exploration of conciousness."

Another MatrixFans.Net get

I cant wait till the Box Set. After so long our dreams have been answered. He is so right about the dogma and having Ken and Cornel on the DVDs is the second best thing.

DL FAST wont be up for long

featuring Larry Wachowski and Ken Wilber

Ken: You yourself have not talked about your interpretation of
The Matrix trilogy or what you were attempting to say
because you didn't want it to become dogma, in other words
you wanted people to be free to interpret the movie the way
they wanted to, and they have the freedom to do that, and
as soon as the moviemaker gets up and says "This is the
meaning of The Matrix...", this really limits people,
I think it's a very wise thing to do...

Larry: Yeah, I mean, you make a work of art and you want it to be
provocative, you want people to dialog about it, you don't
want them to rely on somebody to tell them what it is,
the whole nature of the movie is exactly that... inspective
and pursue it yourself... Yeah, it seems hypocritical for us
to go out and tell everybody what it's supposed, or what
you're supposed to think about it, and even if I was to do it
or Andy was to do it and in the gentlest of terms and try to
contextualize it as what it means to us... it... because, by
the very nature of us being the creators of it, it becomes,
you know, law, THE interpretation, and anyone else's
interpretation is just... some crazy individual that really
doesn't get it. I don't wanna devalue anybody's opinion of
it, because they're all... that's, I don't know, I think that's
one of the reasons that art is a worthwhile experience...

Ken: So, you decline to do the traditional director's commentary
over the films, so, Warners then suggested, that...

Larry: They had a bunch of, like, typical DVD commentary ideas, and
hmm, you know, we found, you know, we found most commentary
pretty mundane, pretty boring, pretty pleonastic, pretty
shallow, and, you know, I'm not very interested in most
commentary, and so I started thinking about it and talked about
it with Andy and we were like, oh, it would be interesting, and
so, we had this idea that... trying to create tracks that
reflected our hope for the movie, which would be that the
the movie would inspire people to think about it, and inspire
dialog about everything... *Ken and Larry starts chuckling*
And so, we thought that basically demonstrating the range
of dialogs that the movie has inspired would inspire its own
dialog about not only The Matrix, but the way that we talk
about art... and so, suddenly, the commentary wouldn't be
just about The Matrix, it would be about something bigger,
something larger, it would have a larger scope to it, and huh,
so we told Warner Brothers that... "GREAT!" *Ken laughs*
But, I mean, how we would go about doing it is getting two
critics to talk about the movie, who hated the movie, and two
philosophers who saw the movie and were inspired by the movie,
and juxtapose those two different dialogs against each other,
and Warner Brothers was like "You wanna put... let me get this
straight..." *Ken starts laughing loudly* " wanna put
two critics who hated the movie, talking about the movie for
six hours?" "Yeah!" *Ken continues to laugh* And, you know,
not only because I think it will be interesting, and, the
dialog, the internal way that they've come to these opinions
will be interesting, it will be interesting to see how the
critic talks about the movie, and, that they don't like,
and, they don't see anything in it, and then it'll be
interesting seeing how two philosophers would talk about
it, and see something in it, and see something that works
in it, and listening to those two perspectives, I think,
would be interesting...

Ken: Yeah, yeah. So that's what were gonna do and as you know
it's sort of, hmm, it puts me in a somewhat awkward position
because you and I have an agreement. Wish that ours discussing
what I think the films mean, what you yourself, your own
interpretation of the film. We have an understanding that
I'm not gonna discuss your interpretation of the film with
anybody as that's a private thing and you and a few friends
talk about it and we're keeping that, you know, to ourselves,
so to speak. In the same time, I'm being asked to give my
interpretation for public, but I've already done that and
you already came up here with a film crew and shot three hours
of me giving my blow by blow interpretation of all three.
As you know, I think it's incredibly gutsy because the whole key
to the Matrix trilogy, this is my interpretation, is given in
really in the last fifteen, twenty minutes of the third film,
that the rosetta stone is when Neo, for example, is saying of
the machines, "If you could only see them like I see em...
they're all light. They're made of light", and so on...


Ken: When you were over in Japan for one of the openings
and *laughs* they're like *laughs* ...
you know every body else is...

Larry: Yeah we're actually standing next to press row...

Ken: Exactly...

Larry: Like the entire row of like cameras and video cameras
and all these reporters are standing there and we're like
standing right next to 'em...

Ken: Right... *laughs*

Larry: And everyone's like and...this woman is watching as
Carrie-Anne and Keanu come down the aisle and they're
all taking pictures and very excited and, then Joel Silver
comes down the aisle and she's like...

Ken: The producer...

Larry: you know gets very excited who's standing next to me this
Japanese woman she's like "It's Joel Silver! Joel Silver! Joel Silver!"
*Ken and Larry laugh* I'm like "Ohhh... who's he?"
She's like... *laughter*

Ken: She's elbowing *you* and saying "look! look! There's the producer!"
Oh God! And you're sitting're, you're appropriately
excited of course? *Ken continues laughing*

Larry: Oh of course, well I had to find out who he was first...
"Who is he? Ohhh... *he's* responsible for the Matrix...
Ohhh." *Ken continues laughing* No, I mean, not, not to
say anything bad about Joel...

Ken: No, understood.

Larry: our...leader...

Ken: Or ah, or the Japanese woman for that matter.

Larry: No, no she was, she was sweet, she was very nice but I,
I felt very...happy with the fact that they didn't know
who we were. *laughs*

Ken: Yeah..*laughs* Um, incidentally I, well wait, you're, now, but
you're not just, you know, for ah, things that I believe are
public knowledge, you're not planning on going back and, and
filming anymore Matrix things for the foreseeable future right now.
Ah you, you filmed the three of those you know in one long, intense
five-ish year period and you've just sort of taken a break from
that right now, yeah?

Larry: Yeah, the actual full span is probably ten years...

Ken: Yeah.

Larry: that we've been working on it...

Ken: Yeah.

Larry: and it's just you know that's, that's the story,
I don't know we'll see...

Ken: Yeah.

Larry: down the line I'm hoping that I, I recover enough
to even wanna make another movie.

Ken: Yeah. Yeah. So you'll just sorta wait and see what unfolds?

Larry: Yeah, yeah...

Ken: Yeah?

Larry: can't say that...I don't know I used to love movies.
*Ken laughs loudly* I used to go to movies all the time I used to,
you know watch hundreds of them hundreds a year I can't
stand them. *laughter* Somebody asked me what did the Matrix you
know do to us in terms of watching other movies and probably the
most distorting aspect of having made these films is looking at
movies and just feeling such a lack of ambition on the part of
people who are making them...

Ken: Yeah. that I kind, I kind of think like -- why bother?

Ken: Yeah. Yeah.

Larry: It's like if they can't generate ambition and energy,
why should I be interested?

Ken: Yeah. Yeah. Well I you know look, I think that's an occupational
hazard of anytime you try to bring some sort of quality excellence
to anything I mean frankly I feel the same way about writers you know
I mean I bust my ass on these things and I pick up books and read
through it I go, "Jesus, this person you know, I could do this...
between stoplights. I mean, this is, this is just horrible!"

Larry: Yeah which is interesting because at the same time that is the
thing that really enables you in the beginning. It's like Kubrick
used to talk about how when you know when he first started he would
go to the movies and he was like "Christ that was crap.
I could do that standing on my head."

Ken: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Larry: And it's like and you know you forget that crap is there before
and after you do it. But in, before you do it it's like "Whoa!"
it's inspiring. *laughs* And then after you do it it's just...

Ken: Still there.

Larry: yeah. It's kinda like ah, defeating in a way.

Ken: Yeah. Yeah. Ah, so, before I forget, what was your take on Hegel?

Larry: Oh we were talking about how...this is very complicated but
essentially the ah the Hagalian idea that the development of
everything is leading towards the singularity of the individual,

Ken: Yep.

Larry: It's the whole process, that mystical, that eros that you talk
about that's underneath everything has been bringing us toward the
development of self-awareness and consciousness. Well I guess
consciousness and then self-awareness.

Ken: Yeah.

Larry: And how that development, that ah, I guess in your terms
it would be the holonic development...

Ken: Yeah.

Larry: leads towards the singularity, it's like the base leading
towards the singularity of the individual. Right?

Ken: Ah, ah well, but not, but... individuality is not an omega
for me, it's sort of...

Larry: Correct... but I mean, you see the development, well, you see that
progression add to the development...

Ken: I think so, from what you said so far, I think so, yeah...

Larry: But then whereas he writes, you know, he basically says "Here
I am, I'm Hegel, I'm self-awareness, I'm the Omega point incarnate..."
You then turn around and reverse out of that pyramid.

Ken: ...through further development.

Larry: Yes. Which is an interesting shape, I guess, that was the nature
of our discussion... Because generally people want to be
describing things that, you know, reach a pinnache and not, then,
turn around and get out of the pinnacle.

Ken: Right. Yeah, I know, it's just an occupational hazard when people
get into evolutionary developmental thinking, they sort of find
themselves perched miraculously on top of the heap, and I find
ourselves miraculously about halfway up the heap, and more than
that, the heap is unending in a manifest domain. You get off the
evolutionary spiral, which is very important to come to terms with,
but you find freedom from it by finding that origin point that we
were talking about, that underlies all of it. And that doesn't
exist in time, that doesn't pop out at the top, in time, that's
the timeless ground of all of it, and so, you know...

Larry: Right, but the path there is a development of an ever
re-expanding path, where you start off and you know,
you're going from base matter, atoms, molecules, cells,
living organisms... you're up to the triune brain and,
you know, that is a progression, a developmental progression
which kind of suggests a value statement there, leading towards
this entity, this... leading towards Hegel *Ken starts laughing*
...leads to Hegel's family, then leads to Hegel's tribe, then to
Hegel's nation state, and then the world... You know, the non-dual
awareness, brings you back to the superbase elements,
the non-dual awareness...

Ken: One of the main differences between anybody writing now and somebody
writing in the time of Schopenhauer is just, you know, science keeps
progressing, to the extent that we make the assumption that science
finds something out about some sort of relatively objective world.
Then, you know, it's..., god we've got so much more science to know
about now, starting with the evolutionary sequence itself, astonishing
things that those developmentalists up to Hegel still had no conception,
of the geographical spans of time and all of the studies that have
been done on the, you know,... Darwin was taking their ideas and
applying it to biology, it would be another century before...

Larry: Yeah it's totally intuitive work.

Ken: It's amazing they got as far as they did...

Larry: Yeah.

Ken: We can be certain of that.

Larry: Yeah it is amazing, it's er, it's staggering

Ken: Is your dad, did your dad, was he, obviously he's very bright
about all these things, but had he studied any of the idealists
or just sort of knew in general what some of them had talked about

Larry: Ah yeah, he's read a lot

Ken: Yeah

Larry: He kind of got into Schopenhauer more because I was so into him

Ken: Yeah

Larry ...forced it down his throat!

Ken: Yeah

Larry: yeah, and he's probably more of a marxist than I am ,
in terms of these ideas affecting and informing history

Ken: Right. Well ok, we'll get him the lower right quadrant then

Larry: systems...

Ken: Yeah, um, ok, alright, so is Karen, is Karen coming down, are we
going to see her?

Larry: Yeah, she's going to be there.

Ken: Oh Cool

Larry: She's going to be there, that should be fun, she couldn't afford
to see me again.

Ken: When are, where are you guys staying?

Larry: Um, well we'll probably either stay at the Viceroy or
we'll stay at um, we may bring our dog...

Ken: Oh, sure you've got a dog?

Larry: Yeah the dog died and we got one, this is the
balance of the universe

Ken: And the Viceroy doesn't allow dogs, so you might stay someplace else?

Larry: Yeah, it does not, we might stay somewhere else,
where are you guys staying?

Ken: I might stay at the Standard, I'm just going down by myself,
I going to stay at the Standard

Larry: The Standard?

Ken: Yeah

Larry: The one in West Hollywood?

Ken: I think so

Larry: That's a hipster place

Ken: You bet

Larry: For a hipster dude!

Ken: Absolutely! Me and West Hollywood, made for each other.

Larry: Metrosexual that you are

Ken: I'm metrosexual, exactly.

Larry: I was going to try to arrange a dinner with Joel, I think it
could be

Ken: It'll be great

Larry: If you actually are flying over the Getty center you can
see Joel's House, it's pretty cool

Ken: Wow

Larry: The red box!

Ken: So ok, I'm free Friday evening and all Saturday and Saturday evening
and Sunday and Sunday evening so...

Larry: Doing some socialising?

Ken: Well I thought since I'm down there, you know, might as well...
I don't get out much.


That was great.

Good work.

woah this is some good stuff!

thanks HooT! winkiss

Even Better

DL it now


Text-only Version: Click HERE to see this thread with all of the graphics, features, and links.