who would you say is the best rapper of all time?

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beccaluvsjames
well????

ElectricBugaloo
never seen this one before!

My vote would go to Gift of Gab from Blackalicious

beccaluvsjames
ite

Deathblow
Toughie...you should be more specific. Every rapper has their own specialist strengths.

(remember, this is all just my opinion)

Potentially, the best rappers of all time are Nas and Canibus, but both have made just one good record each, and are consistently disappointing.

So in my humble opinion, the greatest rapper of all time would be one of these 5, as I believe them to have the best all round abilities:

Deacon The Villian
Slug
Immortal Technique
Aesop Rock
Ice Cube

but seriously, my knowledge of hip-hop is pretty limited. for all i know I could be way off erm I certainly haven't heard enough of Immortal Technique to put him up there really.

Darth Revan
Immortal Technique

beccaluvsjames
Sage Francis
Immortal Technique
Aesop Rock
nas
canibus are good but you've named all underground hip hop!no mainstream eg chingy etc

Darth Revan
That's because mainstream sucks

Deathblow
I said you shoulda been more specific...if its mainstream you wanted then thats easy:

Ice Cube
Nas
Prodigy (of Mobb Deep)
Tupac
Tre Hardson (of The Pharcyde)

ElectricBugaloo
Sage Francis is all right, but he's not the greatest rapper--he's just doing slam poetry to a beat. His lyrics are second to none, but his style and flow are nothing special.

I love Sage, but I wouldn't put him on the best ever list.

beccaluvsjames
yeah neither would i!that's why i sed sage is good!

Deathblow
Not true cry

beccaluvsjames
mainstream is better than underground!i'd rather hear by bling than god!

beccaluvsjames
u've seen the breakfast club!that's a way funny film!

Deathblow
**** no underground is way better than mainstream blink there are plenty of artists who never mention god.

But yeah, scratch Sage, i'll replace him with Slug.

Darth Revan
I know there is some good mainstream... But IN GENERAL underground is much better

HockeyHorror
thats hard...

ima say Immortal Technique. i really enjoyed both his albums. not one track was dissapointing.

GM Grimm is also great, VERY underrated.

beccaluvsjames
ok well not god but religion and all that shyt!the devil w/e!seen as your a guy wunt ya rather hear about hoes n shit?

ElectricBugaloo
i'd rather have real life stories than bling and sex. Hence, sage francis, gift of gab (blackalicious), Immortal Technique.

or just great storytelling ability, instead of songs that have been market tested and pop-ified.

beccaluvsjames
excuse me?whatz hard? smile

HockeyHorror
pac and ice cube are the only mainstream i really enjoy. Nas WAS good. after Illmatic he fell sad

and Mobb Deep USE to be good also.

Deathblow
Are you serious?

ElectricBugaloo
speaking of religion in rap:

Mase. and he's mainstream.

beccaluvsjames
yes im serious

Deathblow
Agreed.

I like the old stuff by Nas/Pac/Biggie/Mobb Deep/Outkast, but now they either dead or crap.

Wu Tang/The Pharcyde I like a lot, but they haven't done anything in ages.

And my favorite mainstream rapper ever who didnt turn crap, Ice Cube, naturally had to go and retire.

ElectricBugaloo
yeah Wu Tang was ill back in the day. But now method man has gone and become a bad actor and everyone else kind of fell off the map

HockeyHorror
Method fell off too sad

and where the hell is Warcloud (Holocaust)

he was ill Wu Tang member.

Deathblow
oh god yeah, him Inspectah Deck and Raekwon were ****in dope. Wu Tang members solo careers dont work though. It just doesn't sound right hearing Meth finish a verse and then not hear GZA or Ghostface following on erm

ElectricBugaloo
oh i know that method's rapping has fell off, but i'm talking about their celebrity; when's the last time you've seen any member of Wu Tang not named MEthod anywhere? ODB in jail?

Alpha Centauri
The greatest rhymer of all time in terms of lyrical content is Zack De La Rocha.

Method Man, given that he gave us some of the greatest rhymes of all time, would be second.

Pac and Biggie weren't the greatest then, they aren't now.

-AC

ElectricBugaloo
no, no, Zach de La Rocha has some good rhymes, but he is not a pure rapper, and his rhymes are not better than Aesop Rock or Brother Ali or Gift of Gab; he is good, but isn't better than many of the people mentioned so far.

HockeyHorror
honestly, Aesop Rock doesn't make sense sometimes.

HockeyHorror
here's a list of music videos of MF DOOM

MF DOOM- My Favorite Ladies
http://www.blastro.com/player/mfdoommyfavoriteladies.html&artist=MF%20Doom

Viktor Vaughn- Mr. Clean
http://www.heavy.com/players/video.php?file=viktor_vaughn_mr_clean.swf&module=heavymusic&width=640&height=480

Madvillain- All Caps
http://www.blastro.com/player/madvillianallcaps.html&artist=all+caps

113
for me

Dre
Snoop
Eminem

BackFire
MC HAMMER

HockeyHorror
backfire- he was great in his time yes

Alpha Centauri
"no, no, Zach de La Rocha has some good rhymes, but he is not a pure rapper"

Pure rapper? Meaning he was in a Rock band? Hmm. I take it you haven't heard his tracks with people like Cypress Hill and KRS-One. DJ-Shadow and people like that then? He's a Hiphop rhymer.

He has some good rhymes. He has mostly excellent ones. Read the lyrics to "Maria" or "Calm Like A Bomb" and we'll discuss more.

Most rappers that try to get political just say "**** Bush" and then some other BS. Zack (with a K) tells you why he is saying what he is, what's wrong with the country and what is going wrong. The injustice in the world. He doesn't make a pseudo-political/intellectual comment and leave it.

"Dre
Snoop
Eminem"

Hahahahaha. Funny. No wonder you created a free yayo thread. You're a Shady Records groupie.

-AC

Mo50cent&JZ
Aesop rock aint NOTHING compare to DR. Dre and Tupac! take that yo all haters!

HockeyHorror
LMAO look at this guy^

Aesop Rock is a sick mother ****er.

Mo50cent&JZ
thats Ur opinion! Aint noone outthere heard of HIM! YO ARE THE ONLY ONE MAKIN HIM FAMOUS!

EVERYONE KNOWS WHO TUPAC WAS! GET IT IN YO HEAD UNDERGROUND DOESNT MEAN SUCCESS! PERIOD!

HockeyHorror
LMAO

thats waht you think. underground hip hop is popular...to those that UNDERSTAND and COMPHREND to the lyrics, which you CANT. get it?

and as Ras Kass said..

"you aint dope just cuz you sniff it/
thats makes a wack rapper and a drug addict/
get it?/
-Ras Kass

get it? u dumbshit big grin

Mo50cent&JZ
NO! YO that one that dont get it!

If yo think that underground is about makin music YO R WRONG! IS ABOUT MAKIN THOSE $$$ EVERYONE WANTS THOSE $$$ EVERY RAPPER ONLY CARE ABOUT MAKING THAT GREEN! NOW SHUT UP AND GO PLAY WITH YOURSELF.

HockeyHorror
obviously! everyone in the world wants $$$$$ but UNDERGROUDN RAPPERS DONT WANT TO CHANGE THEIR STYLE OF RAPPING. they dont want to change to COMMERCIAL hip hop.

and if u didn't get that line by ras kass, you a dumbass.

Mo50cent&JZ
Good! I'm glad you finally came to your senses kid.

HockeyHorror
YOU IDIOT! that hows stupid you are!

read my post again. i disagreed wit you

omg dis is ****in funny laughing

Mo50cent&JZ
all you do is get mad and call me names! You are BITTER arent you?

HockeyHorror
lol look at you^ backing down. whats wrong u scared?

damn man. u a thug, pimp, gangster?

now u saying "dont call me names"

pathetic.

Mo50cent&JZ
its childish to call you dont know names! that means you like to be a child! SO IM GONNA TREAT YOU LIKE A CHILD!
NOW SHUT UP AND GO TO YOUR ROOM! AND NO MORE EMINEM MUSIC! YOU ARE GROUNDED!

HAHAHAHA.

HockeyHorror
wow...that shows how great of a sad you'll be. yes

*sarcasm intended*

BlackHatDefect
IIm going to say Eminem.I don't like rap ta all but when i was 11 i was obsessed with him>_+

HockeyHorror
dont like Eminem, but he's better than 50 cent.

Darth Revan
Hey, I didn't know you were a Chino XL fan!!

Woody Woods
this may take some time..to list...

first off i have:

1. 2pac...( the trailblazer..R.I.P.)
2. Biggie..(R.I.P)
3. Snoop
4. Master P
5. Bone thugz N harmony ( Bizzy, Crazie Bone)
6. NWA...(Dr. Dre, Eazy E, Cube...)
7. Wu-Tang Clan (all of them, solo records are 50/50)
8. Rappin For'tay
9. C-Murder
10. Juvenile
11. Kurupt
12. Nate Dogg
14. Emeinm
15. Scarface
16. Twista ( that OVERNIGHT celebrity is playing as i type this)
17. E-40
18. Trick Daddy
19. Silkk the shocker
20. OutKast.....


and countless others...if anyone had those CD's and i was driving.

i'd have no problem to let them play any of the above names.


i guess im Oldschool...not way OLD school.

i'm old school from 1993 to 2004.

ElectricBugaloo
that's called new school.

golden moon
noone!!!!

HockeyHorror
Woody Wood, nate dogg isn't a rapper man...he's pure R&B

HockeyHorror
Darth Revan- yes laughing out loud

Woody Woods
i don't need someone to point that out to me...i know what he is...i listen to his music...

his music is still great, he was in the church band before he got into the rap game with Snoop and Warren g.

his voice has a melody that makes him special...

ElectricBugaloo
that still doesn't make him a rapper

HockeyHorror
exactly yes

HockeyHorror
right now my top 10 are (the list can change soon)

1. Immortal Technique
2. Ras Kass
3. Killah Priest
4. Chino XL
5. MF Doom
6. Brother Ali
7. C Rayz Walz
8. Cormega
9. Murs
10. GM Grimm

beccaluvsjames
woody woods your music taste is way good!im just listning to regulate right now!hardly nebody likes it but it's great!

HockeyHorror
meh^

im listenin to Saafir- Swig of the Stew

damn he's underrated

BloomBabyGirl
i would say biggie smalls

Woody Woods
i love that rythm to " REGULATORZ" track. it was one of the many songs that propelled the movie ( Above the Rim) to platinum statis..other hits were AFRO PUffs and the intro song. the song 2pac rapped about
"PAIN".

I'm listeing to 'Pac's " Staring through my rearviw mirror" this is the greatest inspiration for me to live by...

HockeyHorror
you wanna hear good beats, check out

The Pharcyde- Passin Me By

Lyrics are good, production is great.

great underground old school hip hop group.

113
not really...i've always liked snoop, i've always liked dre long before eminem came onto the scene...eminem came and i like his attitude more than i like his music and his lyrics i respect

HockeyHorror
Dre doesn't write his own lyrics. he gets help from other weak rappers. like Knocturnal.

HockeyHorror
but his productions are classic yes

113
w/e...his songs are still kickass

HockeyHorror
his production (some) are great. lyrics no

113
Nuthing but a G thang...classic, lyrics and beat is awesome

HockeyHorror
lyrics no, but the beats were nice.

113
i love those lyrics...one of my favorites...1,2,3 and to the 4 snoop doggy dogg and dr. dre is out da door. Ready to make an entrance so back on up cause you know i'm bout to rip shit up. Give me the microphone first so i can bust like a bubble, compton and longbeach together now you knowz youz in troublez...ain't nuthin but a thang baby. Two loc'ed out g's going crazy. Death row is the label that pays me. Unfadable so please don't try to fade me

...great

Black Onyx
rap is shit

HockeyHorror
Eazy E was better than Snoop and Dre.

but i liked Ice Cube alot.

Pac too.

HockeyHorror
Black Onyx- plz provide info to y U THINK, not KNOW that it sucks.

Black Onyx
i like 2pac as well

he sounds so good dead

HockeyHorror
thats sad...

damn that guy in ur sig is half dead or something? he's soo white. what happened to him?
is that Ron from HP?

ElectricBugaloo
I've found that people who dismiss a whole genre out of hand with a terse "I don't like (genre)" usually only like what corporate america tells them to buy.

HockeyHorror
yes ^

Deathblow
Trouble is with gangsta rappers, no matter how could they are potentially, they don't have the scope or range of true mc's. There songs are always one of three things: a threat, a brag, a diss.

They choose one of those things, maybe two or if they're feeling particularly creative, mix up all three. Totally undynamic and totally boring.

Deathblow
Trouble is with gangsta rappers, no matter how could they are potentially, they don't have the scope or range of true mc's. There songs are always one of three things: a threat, a brag, a diss.

They choose one of those things, maybe two or if they're feeling particularly creative, mix up all three. Totally undynamic and totally boring.

Deathblow
Trouble is with gangsta rappers, no matter how good they are potentially, they don't have the scope or range of true mc's. Their songs are always one of three things: a threat, a brag, a diss.

They choose one of those things, maybe two, or if they're feeling particularly creative, mix up all three. Totally undynamic and totally boring.

jayson
it isn't eminem

MF D00m
Damn, this is new jack city up in here. Call this thread best rapper that you've heard.

My ALL-TIME top 5 list:

Rakim
Big Daddy Kane
Kool G Rap
KRS-One
Common Sense

Alpha Centauri
"Rakim
Big Daddy Kane
Kool G Rap
KRS-One
Common Sense"

Never cared for Kool G Rap so with the additions of Meth, Zack and Erick Sermon that would be my favourite list also.

-AC

HockeyHorror
Rakim should be the greatest.

MF D00m
Oh god, shut up with that rock shit already. Zack has great lyrics but he's NOT a rapper. Yes, he's done some songs with some rap artists (i've heard all of them), but that doesn't turn him into a hip-hop MC. Aerosmith did a song with RUN DMC and they're not rappers. You really need to hear other political rappers like Pip Skid, Fermented Reptile, mcenroe, ect. They've been saying what's wrong with this country and the world before he ever got big. It's nothing new. At all.

ElectricBugaloo
i'll stand by my selection of Gift of Gab

Alpha Centauri
"Oh god, shut up with that rock shit already. Zack has great lyrics but he's NOT a rapper. Yes, he's done some songs with some rap artists (i've heard all of them), but that doesn't turn him into a hip-hop MC."

Zack has great lyrics.................but he's not a rapper? Zack writes lyrics, raps them.........yet he's not a rapper? Hmm. Make sure that next time you're thirsty you buy coke from a store not off a man on the street, it's affecting your posts.

Zack was a Hiphop rhymer before he was every in a Rock band. The band were Rock. Zack is, was and always will be a rhymer. He isn't primarily a Hiphop MC is all. But he can rhyme over almost any beat. Studio created or instrument created. Listen to "Year Of Tha Boomerang" or "Mic Check". Those two songs are more Hiphop than most Hiphop around. Hahah "Rock Shit". Funny guy man. Need to come out from underneath MF Doom (no disrespect to the man) and broaden your horizons.

"Aerosmith did a song with RUN DMC and they're not rappers. You really need to hear other political rappers like Pip Skid, Fermented Reptile, mcenroe, ect. They've been saying what's wrong with this country and the world before he ever got big. It's nothing new. At all."

Are Aerosmith rhymers? No. Silence then. I wasn't insinuating that collaborations make a Hiphop artist, but Zack is a rhymer. He is widely recognised within Hiphop as a Hiphop rhymer by establshed stars such as KRS-One. We discovered before that you and debating don't really mix well. So before we get into you saying such childish stuff as "You're dumb", "You're stupid" or "Get a life", lets realise one fact. You ASSUME I haven't heard those MCs you just mentioned. I have. You on the other hand have probably never heard a whole CD with Zack on in your life. Talking about what's wrong with the world and talking about what's wrong with the world and knowing why are two different things. Rage Against The Machine were widely regarded as a threat to the status quo and were a real trouble toward congress with what they were saying. Their political concert outside the Democratic National Convention is stuff of legend as is their concert outside of the Wall Street Stock Exchange. Zack is the best political Rhymer out there.

I would post lyrics and ask you what you think but we tried that before now didn't we, yes we did. Your failure to understand lyrics reminds you of the fact that you aren't the scholar you think you are and as a result, hurl out abuse. So before we take this any further I'll just say now that if you're gonna come back with complete anal talk, save it.

-AC

ElectricBugaloo
when Zack de la Rocha does a solo album and proves that he can stand alone, then I will see if he deserves to be among the greats, but the relatively few rap songs he has done aren't enough even if they are brilliant--it's like Gale Sayers; he was a great running back and kick returner, but his career was so short, he can't really be put alongside Jim Brown, Barry Sanders, et al.

Alpha Centauri
"when Zack de la Rocha does a solo album and proves that he can stand alone, then I will see if he deserves to be among the greats, but the relatively few rap songs he has done aren't enough even if they are brilliant"

No one essentially stands alone. Everyone has people working with them on albums be it producers or whatever. Zack once had a band, one of the best ever, giving him sounds to rhyme over. Now it will be a studio beat so the sound is never gonna be as good as when he had Rage backing him. Lyrically I don't see how he can fail really. The Hiphop tracks he has done are excellent and most of Rage's songs, in my opinion are just as applicable to Hiphop as they are rock. With the drum beats and bass riffs. If you heard the album "Renegades" you'd know they did covers of tracks by EPMD, Rakim and Cypress Hill. All of which were awesome. Black Thought performs with a band, The Roots. Yet just because they are more soulful they're still considered Hiphop. Tom Morello can do things on his guitar that most turntablists probably couldn't do.

I agree I'm anxious to see what he'll do without them but I'm not treating it as Zack's introduction to Hiphop because he always was as far as I'm concerned.

The reason why alot of people name Biggie as the greatest of all time is coz they claim he could flow over any beat.

I think it's a safe bet to say that not many MCs at all could rhyme with a live band let alone a band like Rage Against The Machine.

I just think people are too quick to rule him out because he was in a Rock band. Which is stupid really.

-AC

ElectricBugaloo
i'm just saying we need to hear more before declaring him among the greats. he may end up like, say, Method Man, with a promising start, but then he just kind of loses it

HockeyHorror
i still cant believe Meth fell off sad

PunisherFan33
no one they all suck but i have to pick then i would have to go with 50 cent hes got some skills. yes

HockeyHorror
laughing this guy is funny^

i think he was using sarcasm yes

PunisherFan33
i wasnt i was serious. i dont listen to rap. they only rapper i kindof like is 50 cent mad miffed

HockeyHorror
why?

and RAP isn't a genre

PunisherFan33
only because he dont gloat himself like EMINEM does. " im from the streets" well who cares. so was 50 but he dont talk about it so much.
M&M SUXXXXXXX

HockeyHorror
actually 50 cent in ALL his songs talk about him coming from the streets.

look punisher if u want to listen to good hip hop

click on my sig

better yet check out artists like

Pharoahe Monch (i have a feeling you will like him most)

Alpha Centauri
"i still cant believe Meth fell off "

I wouldn't say Meth fell off really. Did lose it a bit though.

Forget Pharoahe Monch. Sell out.

-AC

HockeyHorror
sad damn pharoahe monch turned into a greedy bastard.

the evil of $$$$

he should have reunited with Prince Po.

Victor Von Doom
RATM aren't actually rock, they merely use the framework.

Just as hip hop is not defined by studio beats or a turntable, rock is not defined by guitars, drums and bass.

Zack definitely has the best lyrics out there.

As far as 'going it alone', who does? Just because someone's name appears primarily: that means shit.

HockeyHorror
AC- MC Juice (Juice) has also gone commercial. or maybe...cuz they keep playing his music on the radio, but late night.

Amanda 417
TECH N9NE
KUTT CALHOUN
SKATTERMAN AND SNUG BRIM
BG BULLETWOUND
VERTIGO
ANYONE ELSE WITH STRANGE MUSIC

Cinemaddiction
Christopher Wallace.

K-Murda
I dont even think anyone has said DMX, or anyone from Bone Thugs... lots of you are just naming underground rappers, sure lots of underground rap is good, but lots of 'mainsteam' rappers are good too. How about Dre and Snoop? And I know all Jin's Ruff Ryders stuff is shit, but his freestyle skills are crazy (and I know you're all gonna say that there are thousands of underground rappers who are twice as good as him...).
...Kobe's good too... he's sorta underground... since no one will touch his music.

Mr Zero
Gill Scott Heron

K-Murda
Damn... Redman too. But as someone said before, it all depends on what you like, and what sort of things you are looking for in the rapper. Nate Dogg has an untouchable flow... but what makes a great rapper?? It's tough to define.

MF D00m
hahahaha

I laughed a few times while reading that post, but the last part?
laughing out loud

koolruningz
Old school: KRS 1 & Ice Cube
Recent: Immortal Technique & Gift of Gab
I cant say i've heard everything out there but these guys are top of my list.

K-Murda
"but the last part?"

That's a joke... have you ever heard Kobe rap??? He is terrible.

He was gonna get signed by a record company, just because they figured his name would sell some records, but then they heard his music... and they forgot about the whole thing.

MF D00m
I was hoping that was a joke. It wouldn't have surprised me if you were serious. That's why I made that response.

CherryPie
Eminem, Dr Dre, And especially....Snoop Dogg Because I share a birthday with him *Buck Tooth SMILE* big grin

Tone
I think Murs should be up there too

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