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Who would win? i think that the lizard will win, but its a hard one.

Good vs topic here. Kinda hard to tell who would win. Venom has the advantage of being able to spin web and the Lizard has the advantage of being stronger than Venom. This would be a close call.

im going with the lizard on this one just cause of the huge stregth and durability advantage not to mention he is prolly just as fast as venom.

I think he's faster than Venom, he surprised Spider-Man more than once with his speed.

the Lizard...definitely the Lizard

Lissssard.

Backing The Lizard on this one. He's significantly faster than Venom as said. Not to mention he has killer strength.

-AC

I'm gonna go with Venom just to be different. I agree that the Lizard is faster, but he's probably not much quicker. Venom can climb walls, and his webbing can be used in a number of ways.

Venom is also smarter than Dr. Connors when he's in his Lizard form. He is a decent tactician, and is alright at setting a trap. Yes I definitly think the Lizard is stronger, and his tail is a great weapon, but it's not as if Venom's punches won't do damage either.

Definitly a great battle. I like this vs. match.

dont forget the fact that he can control the minds of any reptile! AND he also can climb up walls!

he once controlled like 10 crocs to gang up on Spidey so Spidey started climbing up the walls and the Lizard came after him really really fast (hes a faster wall climber than Venom or Spidey)

Yes, definetly a match that would be great to see in a comic.

Supposebly the Lizard can climb walls like a Geico or something like that.

umm yeah thats what i just posted!

And I decided to be a little more precise.

Duke

Supposebly the Lizard can climb walls like a Geico or something like that.

So the Lizard can climb walls like a car insurance company?

Venom wins this since I'm doubtful that the ability to wallcrawl like a car insurance company would rival Venom's ability.

i think it depends on WHERE the fight takes place. If its in the streets, it goes to venom, cuz i mean, the guy can websling and all that stuff, plus has great jumping and is just better in open areas than the lizzard. If its in the sewers, i think it will be much closer. I still think venom could pull it off in the sewers, but chances are it would go to the lizzard...

maybe they would kill each other.

and then venom wins, cuz he sometimes longs for death....

Venom. Because the Lizard got beaten by a tree. Venom never got beaten by a ****in tree.

LOL. I meant like a Salimander, however you spell it. Basically what someone has already said about the Lizard about crawling up walls faster.

Lizard is stronger and faster, though i dont think his strength is that big a factor, it defaintly would be over a period of time. Venom has to many abilites. In lethal protectors we saw venoms suit manifest additional symbiote arms and mouths. I hate to do the redundant comment about depending on where the fight takes place, but this is a fight where it would actually matter. If it is in enclosed area's then the lizard wins beyond a shadow of a doubt, but if it's out in the open i think the sybiotes insticnt could prove to overcome the lizard regaurdles of strength and speed.

stalemate.

Salamanders do not climb walls. What you meant was "gecko".

Anyway, though I'm a big fan of symbiotes, I've always been a herpetologist at heart. I'm going to say the Lizard just because he's extremely powerful and (I'm assuming) his scales are more resistant to damage than the symbiote suit.

And if they fought in an alligator farm...a MUTANT alligator farm...well, you can guess who would win.

"Venom he's got webbing."

well also think about what would happen if it was a close battle that involved something like a bear hug or some kind of hold. Venom's symbiote could go down Lizard's throat or wrap around his neck. That symbiote doesn't just sit on his body.

Also, though it wouldn't matter much...Venom's symbiote is black, and also has camo capabilities...so fighting in a dark sewer could be less of an advantage to the Lizard than most would think.

It's hard to forget those types of capabilities the symbiote is able to do.

I'm just going to say the Lizard can sense heat.

Yah, i just realized i didn't make that sentence too clear. I meant to say that the fact it can camo doesn't really matter much.

Nah, the suit has much better protection than scales. I mean, the lizzard's scales have been puncutred by tranquilier darts before, whereas Venom's suit can EASILY take bullets without harm.

good point

For real? That doesn't seem right.

are you forgetting the fact that the Lizard LIVES in a sewer?? and has large reptilian friends in the sewer??

why are you only quoting 80% of what i said. you completely neglected the part at the begging where i state



and then my comment 2 posts farther down. which further explains the terrorible sentence.

than if it "wouldn't matter much" whyd you bring it up as an advantage for Venom??

Come on folks, let's keep it nice here...

lizard has more durability then venom u can check it anywhere and lizard is bullet proof also.

the lizzard is bulletproof, yet a tranq. dart can easily pierce his skin... hrmm.... Also, the lizzard is at a big disadvantage when it comes to webbing..... least thats what i've seen. He doesn't seem to be able to fight it off like other villains, and venom's webbing is stronger than spidey's...

but so is venom seeing as how after he uses too much organic webbing it weakens him a bunch.

wait.. using webbing weakens him? of course... that makes so much sense and all, and seeing as he has an infinite supply, thats obviously a weakness....

Well if u read the comics he doesnt have an infinete supply seeing as how his webbing is just part of the sybiot hes shoting out so after he uses to much of it it weakens him that is how spiderman beat him in their first encounter by tricking him into expelling so much of his webbing
yea but of course u havent read the comic so umm ....... it would make so much sence that....... ummm u dont know what ur talking about.......

all sewers are different. To go ahead and assume he's well enough at home in all of New York is ludacris.

I brought it up as an advantage because generally speaking, the ability to camo yourself is an advantage.

Though it "wouldn't matter much" because the Lizard uses heat to sense his prey. In which case, i'm pretty sure the Symbiote would be able to control his body temperature on the outside so that he would be more difficult to detect...but undoubtably still detectable.

Like i said earlier, just don't quoting 80% of my complete comment in order to make yourself seem smarter.

And exactly what gigantic reptiles are you expecting to find in the sewers? Do you really believe there are huge alligators just living down there waiting to be controlled???


And Supermandaman....do you have like a comic book reference to back up your statement that the Lizard is bulletproof? In Secret Wars he gets cut open somewhat easily...and The Wasp runs into him and tries to help.

In Secret Wars, Lizard almost looked cute...

Back to the fight : we have two mean fighters, but I think Lizard is the meanest one. He doesn't care about a thing, where Venom, in his own way, tries to protect the innocents.

Lizard is faster, meaner and probably stronger. I'm pretty sure he can give Venom serious trouble.

you're right about the Lizard in Secret Wars. he has like a soft spot or something...it's pretty sad.

But i was just stating my scepticism towards Lizard's bullet proof skin...

He HAS a very tough skin, that's a fact. But bulletproof ? Depends on the bullets, I guess .

he controls the crocs which is exactly why wherever he is--they are! theyre like his minions! so YES there are huge crocadiles down there waiting to be controlled!!!

Sure.

So what happens when Venom takes off the man hole cover and just kicks it up topside.

Wait....they just climb the ladders right behind him. Silly me...

They're aren't actually alligators in NYC sewers and it was to my knowledge he didn't control them. Just dwelled with them.

-AC

i didn't even know he had "control" over reptiles. I'd love to have someone kick down a comic number where he does this.

Everything I've stated about Venom, I can pretty much back up with comic numbers.

But bulletproof skin and the ability to control reptiles are two things that are news to me. I don't have many Spidey comics starring the Lizard, so I admit my knowledge of him is somewhat limited.

A little info on the Lizard

Strength Level: The Lizard has superhuman strength, enabling him to lift (press) approximately 12 tons.

Known Superhuman Powers: The Lizard possesses a number of superhuman powers endowed by his reptilian form, including his superhuman strength. His powerful leg muscles enable him to clear 12 feet in a standing high jump and 18 feet in a standing broad jump. His alligator-like hide is tougher than human skin, and is capable of resisting the penetration of small caliber bullets. His reaction time is about twice that of the normal human being and he can run at speeds of up to 45 miles per hour.

The Lizard possesses a 6.5-foot tail, which he can whip at speeds up to 70 miles per hour. Like a gecko lizard, his hands and feet have retractable 1-inch hooks growing from the base of his palm and the ball of his foot, and his fingers and toes are covered with scores of tiny claws to create adhesive pads. As a result, the Lizard can support his weight climbing up and down normally intractable surfaces.

When the Lizard, the R-complex of Connors' brain (the most primitive region of the human brain containing the most bestial drives) takes over the cerebellum, causing Connors' mind to become progressively inhuman. The Lizard gains a quasi-telepathic ability to communicate with and command all reptiles within about a one-mile radius of himself.


OK, so his strength isn't much greater than Venoms. His SPEED is far greater, but his ability to jump and his quickness are about similar to that of Venoms.

He can withstand small caliber arms fire, Venom has been able to stop an onslaught of high caliber machine gun fire.

YES, he can control reptiles within a somewhat wide distance, though alligators don't live in the sewers, so i hope he stopped by the zoo before the fight.


For the sake of arguing. I think it's not fair to put the Lizard in a sewer, and it's not fair to put Venom in open city streets. I propose something more neutral for both. How about the fight takes place in a subway station?? I'm open to suggestions.

I'm also not a Lizard-expert, but I always thought he could control (or communicated with) reptiles.

I asked my guru, and he told me to check out Amazing Spider-Man #45. It seems that in this comic, the Lizard used some kind of telepathic command to boss reptiles around.

And now that I think of it, I think I have read that comic, but long long time ago, when animals could still talk.

very well!!

Amazing Spider-Man #6 November, 1963 pages 147 & 148

thank you Manowar.

Man that 1st pic of the Lizard is so sexah. his coat looks bleached white and ironed with starch.

well those are the pages in my Masterworks books, but i dont want to fetch it and find the pages of that particluar issue

it would be an awesome fight to see in a comic, they r both so fierce...i do think the lizard would edge out a win....dont forget the lizards healing ability surpasses wolverine's

actually, i have read teh comics, and yes, the symbiote generates its own organic webbing and has an infinite amount of it. At one point, parker actually had leverage but ran out of webbing (just hadded to put in another cartridge, but still) and it gave venom enough time to gain the upper edge.

And even if the webbing does draw from the symbiote... seeing as the symbiote in itself is self-regenerating, all he would have to do is wait a good 5 seconds and be back up to full... its not really a disadvantage at all...

well ill post my argument here as well

The Lizard's info:

Intelligence: Genius (and yes he has all of his genius in Lizard form)
Strength: Class 12 (able to lift or press 12 tons)
Speed: Near-Superhuman
Durability: Practically bullet-proof
Fighting Skills: Normal

Powers:
-Superhuman strength and speed and the ability to climb sheer surfaces
-Limited invulerability
-Mental communication with and control over reptiles in a one-mile radius
-Wields his tail as a weapon and can swing it at more than 70 mph


Venom's info:

Intelligence: Normal
Strength: Class 11 (able to lift or press 11 tons)
Speed: Normal
Durability: Regenarative
Fighting Skills: Normal

Powers:
-Superhuman strength and agility, as well as the ability to spin web-like strands and scale sheer surfaces
-Immunity to Spider-Man's early warning danger sense (Spider Sense)
-Mimicry of any individual's appearance

Lizard's power Average: 3.167
Venom's power Average: 2.5

that means the Lizard is *significantly* stronger

nice info...where the heck did it come from.


Lizard is NOT a genius...he is a brutal savage.
Since when is Venom's speed "average"?
What's this "regenerative" b/s. It's more than bulletproof...AND regenerative.

I don't know where this "power average" comes from, but it's utter nonesense.

State your source...if it's reliable enough. Otherwise show comic proof of "genius intelligence" and this "limited invulnerability"

try the Marvel Directory and Marvel Encyclopedia

i used the Marvel Encyclopedia for the most part but i used the Marvel Directory for more detail...if you dont like it, tough Marvel wrote it

and i figured someone like you would say something so here it is in layman's terms

The Lizard's info: (on a scale from 1-7)

Intelligence: 5
Strength: 4
Speed: 2
Durability: 5
Fighting Skills: 2


Venom's info:

Intelligence: 2
Strength: 4
Speed: 2
Durability: 4
Fighting Skills: 2

and THATS where i got the averages

Venoms overall stats average at a 2 and the Lizard's is 3.167

i agree the Lizard would most likely win

i think that lizzard stats are the stats of both "forms" of the lizzard. The older one and the newer one (when he was fighting scarlet spider the first time he mutated further). In his newer form, he did actually gain the bulletproof stuff, and his strength did increase, HOWEVER he lost control of his mind entirely. He was no more than an animal. he did not come up with any schemes, or fight with any idea in mind. It was purely kill or be killed, thats how he was beaten so easily in the end.

Venom's intelligence is FAR higher than a mere "2". Brock himself boarders on genius (though being psychotic might make that a little less) yet as a fighter, i have yet to see a "smarter" fighter than Venom. He is always planning out every attack, assessing his opponent weaknesses, etc.


As i said in my first post, this would be a very close match. But venom's recovery (it only takes him 5 to 10 seconds to recover back to full strength after being near death) and his ability to actually think give him more of an edge. Now, if they were in the sewers or very inclosed area, I think the lizzard could come out on top. If they were in the streets, Venom, no question.

YEA???? like i said dude read their first encounter cause that is how spiderman beat him by making him use a bunch of webbing weaking him.

/shrug, then maybe he's changed a lot since then. THe lizzard has changed a lot since his first incarnation as well. For one, he can't think straight enough to come up with any sort of scheme....

Based soley on the fact that HE thinks Lizard will win....I KNOW that Venom would win.

Well how do u know that ?

because he has an intelligence level higher than 2.... and by "he" i mean Link...

this would be a sweet battle to see its pretty close i'd actually go with lizard on this one hes really strong and fast but i could be wrong

lizard

lizard

Oh how great it is to have Mitchell dwelling on these forums.

-AC

venom all the way

Lizard has his speed, savage attacks and strength over Venom.

Venom has webbing, ability to use his symbiote in battle, and more genius in battle tactics.

I'm pretty sure Venom would beat Lizard, but not quick. This would be a very long battle.

If it were Carnage though, Lizard would meet his match in speed and strength. Carnage would woop him using his symbiote-made weapons.

Have any of you played the first spidey game that came out on psx and pc? you know.......the one where venom goes into the sewers, beats up and locks the lizard in a cage before spidey gets there.

Im going with venom

oh yeah, lol, forgot all about that! Venom gains another point!

They have fought before. It was in the novel 'The Lizard Sanction' by Diane Duane. The fight was innterrupted before it could go on, but it seemed that the Lizard was winning.

Basically Venom launched a bunch of webbing/tendrils, but the Lizard just batted it all aside, grabbed hold of it, yanked Venom towards him, staggered him with a big punch, then picked him up as if he was weightless and sent him flying.

It would depend on location and the like, but overall, I'd say the Lizard.

I think the Lizard has this one he has to many advantages to be ignored.

You guys are being too 'scientific' with all the stats. Stats don't mean anything in a fight. The fact is, Spider-Man has never REALLY beaten the Lizard. I have virtually all his appearances *in Spider-Man comics I mean* and each time Spider-Man either only wins by changing him back to Curt Connors or the Lizard leaves after beating him rather than killing him. The only time the Lizard was really 'savage', in terms of being unable to think or talk, was when he was controlled by Calypso.

As for Venom, I also have all of his Spider-Man appearances, though granted he has appeared so much in other places so I may be behind the times, but Spider-Man also has never REALLY beaten Venom either, in terms of fighting ability. He's just outsmarted him. Fact is, Lizard and Venom are both stronger than Spider-Man, but Venom has more vulnerabilities than Lizard, not just fire or sonics. Lizard doesn't have to be a genius to rip the symbiote off Brock or anything. The fight of course would not have a REAL ending because no comic writer will give us that satisfaction as they are two A-list enemies, but the Lizard would probably overpower Venom and then leave. He always seems to leave after a fight.

Oh, as for Carnage, he wouldn't beat either one. Whichever one of you said he was far stronger than either Lizard or Venom is mistaken, unless of course something has happened to him in the past year as I have stopped reading comics. But the classic Carnage always got his ass kicked by Venom in a one-on-one match. Yes he's got the weapons from his symbiote, but Lizard would be too fast or strong for him.

no, you have it backward. The original carnage was able to easily beat venom in one on one, thats why he had to team up with spidey. The newer carnage is about the same strength, but venom's physical strength has more than doubled (he absorbed carnage's symbiote and gained its power on top of his).


and, sorry, but the lizzard at his peak, when he went 100% prehistoric or whatever, was beaten by a fire extinguisher and some webbing.... not too impressive.

No, Spider-Man was beaten one-on-one, not Venom. Spider-Man had to go after Venom and request his help. In the Maximum Carnage saga, Venom nearly killed Carnage until Spider-Man stopped him. I do seem to remember Venom absorbing Carnage, so that would obviously make him much stronger, but again, it was Spider-man who was beaten, not Venom.

When was the Lizard *not Lizzard* beaten by a fire extinguisher? Webbing was never able to hold him, he could rip it easily, something plenty of Spidey's villains could not do. Besides, Lizard is weaker when he's 'prehistoric', he's much stronger when he has his faculties because he can plan things rather than just mindlessly jump around.

all this time i thought carnage could easily beat venom, like he said to venom in carnage unleashed (part 4 i think) "We can kick both your real and your cyber butt"....and i thought venom got beat up by carnage at the beginning of maximum carnage comics and the game (for snes)....and oh yeah- he also got beat up by carnage in the 1st spidey game that came out for psx

lizard would own, he could like knock venom out with his tale and he is alot stronger but im not sure by how mutch, ne one know wut class he is???

and plus th lizard is alot smarter isnt he?, isnt he like a scientist

hes class 14 and Venom is class 12. strength isnt the only factor. when Connors can stay sane in the Lizard form without going beserk, hes got the brains and the brawn.

hes more durable than Venom, hes faster, hes smarter (in some cases i.e. the one i listed above), and hes got valuable weapons like mental control over all reptiles.

thats really good information, but i dont agree with all of it...

Well, no offense, but you thought wrong, lol. You haven't read Maximum Carnage then I take it? Venom stalks Carnage in Chapter 14 *Spider-Man Unlimited 2* and beats him senseless, knocking him around town as Carnage is fleeing for his life. Spider-Man finally stops Venom from killing Carnage. You need to read the books for this, not play video games. That is not the gauge with which you judge the question, it is created by the video game company to be challenging; and as Carnage is the bad guy, he's going to be tough to beat.

humph! well i suppose ur right then. Thanx for the enlightenment then. That comic was never offered on sale here but i think now im gonna have to order from those sites Mane and the others suggested.

It's not that good a saga, but it has its moments I guess. Basically the best parts are the first and last, Spider-Man Unlimited #1 and #2. And the issue where Venom says 'yeah yeah, you and Sinatra.' I love that line, I still use it.

this is off topic, but has ne one ever seen that crazy cartoon where spiderman is on another planet, and venom and carnage are there, but they are like way way way stronger and look more monster like?

The 90s cartoon? Yeah I saw it, it was pretty good. Much better than that MTV crap. Speaking of Venom though, he looks more monster-like depending on the artist. McFarlane *the original* drew him as a more muscular Spider-Man with teeth, but normal teeth. Then Larsen drew him with a two foot tongue with green drool and long fangs. Then Bagley drew him with long fangs but no tongue or drool. Then the Venom continuous series had different looks. I prefer Bagley's over all, but nowadays you have no idea what the hell he'll look like, lol.

Plus he's gone from black to blue to black again. Nobody seems to know how they want to draw Venom.

How strong is the Lizard? I know he is a class 14 but that does not say much because Venom is a class 12 but has been shown to be way stronger that that. What are some of the things the Lizard has done to show how strong he is.

erm...you do realise that Lizard lifts 12 tons, and venom lifts 25 so I wouldnt say lizard was stronger not at all, but lizard is more durbale depends who is more brutal. I'd prob have to go with lizard he just seems more agressive than venom.

Oh no i stand corrected venom can lift 11 tons where the hell did I read venny could lift 25 should find that out

Venom could lift more the 11. Never go by the bio's they are wrong many times. Venom has been shown to be alot stronger.

Venom should be about 25

venom takes this because his is spidey on roids...

i would like to say to all of you who claims that Lizard would beat Venom that there is something to keep in mind: Venom IS Spider-Man's most dangerous enemy. Venom is stronger and has superhuman reflexes, and smart as hell so he could beat Lizard better than Spider-Man can. The Only way Lizard could beat Venom is if he has a sonic gun or a flamethrower because that's what can really destroy Venom...

Actually, Scorpion is wearing the symbiote.

Anyway the original Venom, that means Eddie Brock, will trash Lizard because he is a true badass.

Originally posted by crazyspinz
lizard would own, he could like knock venom out with his tale and he is alot stronger but im not sure by how mutch, ne one know wut class he is???

and plus th lizard is alot smarter isnt he?, isnt he like a scientist


as the Lizard his brains kinda went down hill..usually but he'd beat Venom after a long hard battle.

Originally posted by Venom Dude No.1
i would like to say to all of you who claims that Lizard would beat Venom that there is something to keep in mind: Venom IS Spider-Man's most dangerous enemy. Venom is stronger and has superhuman reflexes, and smart as hell so he could beat Lizard better than Spider-Man can. The Only way Lizard could beat Venom is if he has a sonic gun or a flamethrower because that's what can really destroy Venom...

Actually the lizard is stronger then venom, and the only way that Spiderman beats the lizard is because he out smarts him most of the time which i dont see venom doing. Not to mention the only reason venom is one of spidermans most dangerous villains is because he has the huge advantage of knowing who spiderman is and spidermans spider sence isnt trigered by venom so considering venom can change his appearance he could sneak up on spiderman any time he wanted and spiderman wouldnt see it coming. So its not like he is spidermans most dangerouse evenemy in terms of powers he just has alot of advantages over spiderman.

what kind of tactic do you think Lizard would use in a fight against Venom?

Mostly I just see Lizard using his tail to attack his enemy's, I may be wrong but anyway, Venom has a spider-sense and webbing so Venom would dodge every attack Lizard is trying out because the spider-sense will warn him, and If Venom gets tired he can web Lizard in the eyes from a wall and there catch his breath. And here comes the part about that Venom doesn't outsmart the enemies, as you said. Here's a way Venom will outsmart Lizard which Spider-Man has fallen victim to: Lizard and Venom is in the sewers and they stand a distance from each other in the water, then Venom is sending a piece of his symbiote on Lizards foot and draging Lizard to him, after that then Venom is gonna kick Lizards green ass really tough...

sorry Lizard-fans

Originally posted by Venom Dude No.1
what kind of tactic do you think Lizard would use in a fight against Venom?

Mostly I just see Lizard using his tail to attack his enemy's, I may be wrong but anyway, Venom has a spider-sense and webbing so Venom would dodge every attack Lizard is trying out because the spider-sense will warn him, and If Venom gets tired he can web Lizard in the eyes from a wall and there catch his breath. And here comes the part about that Venom doesn't outsmart the enemies, as you said. Here's a way Venom will outsmart Lizard which Spider-Man has fallen victim to: Lizard and Venom is in the sewers and they stand a distance from each other in the water, then Venom is sending a piece of his symbiote on Lizards foot and draging Lizard to him, after that then Venom is gonna kick Lizards green ass really tough...

sorry Lizard-fans

lol i dont think there are to many lizard fans for as for the venom fanboys...........

Damnit..I was going to make a thread with this title but well it was already made so Bump.