America: The Greatest Country In The World Or The Closest Thing To Hell On Earth

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Beyonder
This is a thread to continue what Alpha Centauri and I have been arguing over for the last days or so. It started in General Comic Discussions in a thread about Canadian Superheroes http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=301207&perpage=20&pagenumber=4 - where things got a little out of hand. However, this is a good debate and if you feel like joining in feel free to do so.

Alpha Centauri


Firstly, Saddam lead them in circles when there were only arranged inspections. After the inspectors started arriving unannounced and still found no WMDs the Bush administration didn't like it so once again they started linking them to Al Qaida and insisting that somewhere there MUST be WMDs. So they spent millions on this campaign, people lost lives. Innocents on both sides. For nothing. Well, not totally nothing, Saddam is out of power and yes he flaunted international laws for quite some time but it wasn't a new thing, they waited long enough to act.

They did wait long enough to act. But should they have waited longer? Maybe we should've waited until he decides to up the genocide numbers into the millions then the world should intervene. Or maybe until he actually has nukes then we should react right. Maybe we should even have tried to appease him like the most European nations when Hitler began his conquest of other nations & gaining power as it went on.

Now if they were to attack during the Clinton administration than, what good excuses would there be for such an attack that the world wouldn't criticize America for being a warmonger & imperialist? Saddam and America's critics would have labeled Clinton and America as warmongers & imperialist looking to enrich their pockets with Iraqi oil to boost their booming economy even more, claming that America's stirring up trouble in times of peace.


-Yeah it was happening for 10 years. They could have ended it during the Gulf "War". They didn't for their own personal gain and Saddam continued his ways. Why has it taken so long to go back? Get all you need and then when Iraq have nothing left to give to you, it means they are eraseable?

Agreed. America should have ended that war by taking out Saddam - yet we procrastinated in a way. However, it was George Bush senior who did it for his own political gain. The economy was in a slump (which the president was blamed for this) and reelection was coming close, so Bush senior decide to pull out to save his own popularity from dropping even more. *I hate George W. Bush (junior) as much as anyone. He's one of the most conservative republicans around, always referring to Jesus as his inspiration and that he felt it was God meant for him to become the president. Religion and politics shouldn't mix in my opinion.* However, I applaud that he took a stand (arrogance if you wanna call it, he kind is) even though most countries were against it.

Regarding why it took so long to go back, that entire operation was a U.N. thing but America dedicated more troops than any other country. If you have a problem with one country waging war with another over oil issues, then blame every country that was involved - whether it be sending troops or financing. Don't just point your finger at America, try the U.N. Furthermore, that continuation of oil flow from Kuwait was not just America or those countries who participated; it meant that most countries getting oil from the Middle East/Kuwait benefited as well. If anyone had a problem with this invasion, then they should've STOPPED BUYING GAS & DRIVING. If Saddam had gotten Kuwait, oil prices would've gone up and that's why the U.N. intervene. This whole deal about America being a no give, no gain country is pure bullcrap 'cause other countries were involved as well.


-He never hated America. He hated the administration. I hate the administration. Are the US Army coming after me? Wanting Nukes, when weighed against the possibility of him getting them is totally different.

Yeah, he loves America. roll eyes (sarcastic) I hate this administration too (but you can't blame America itself for it). I am happy that Saddam's ass is out. If you wanna start pointing to the innocents killed, people die in wars for one. Two, the insurgence are the ones killing more innocents then American soldiers. Three, Saddam let loose most, if not every, Iraqi criminals just before the war started - have you ever thought that they contributed the killings of innocent lives? All I'm hearing is how America is responsible for the death of these innocent lives.


-What he was doing to his own people was filthy but the stuff he was using for the most part, were supplied by the US. Besides he was doing it for as you said, over 10 years. What stopped the US from kkilling him when they had the chance if they KNEW he'd do it again? Or did Saddam say "Sorry" and the US believe him? He invaded Kuwait because they started arming themselves with tanks and progressing into the Iraq/Kuwait border. Tanks coincidentally supplied by George Bush.

Supplies that he bought from us during the Iran/Iraq war. Iran was an enemy to America so we help Iraq out - "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," ever heard that line? We didn't supply these weapons so he can kill his own people; he can you blame us for that? You think we would have sold them if we knew of such intent? Give us some credit, we're not as backstabbing/murderous as you or most think. Furthermore, other countries sold Iraq weapons as well.

Here's a site that gives a summary of things:
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Iran-Iraq_War

Stop what? He gassed his own people right AFTER the coalition had pulled out - you think we wouldn't have taken him out if we knew that he'd pull something like that on his own people (especially gassing them)? And don't just blame America, this was a coalition effort. Why didn't any other countries intervened? Why is it always America that has to bleed? Others could have done this as well; the Persian Gulf neighbors the Asian & European countries.

Tanks on the Iraq/Kuwait borders? He invaded the country & annexed it because of oil and wanting Kuwait to be part of Iraq again. And what's wrong with any country wanting to arm themselves, does a country not have rights to arm themselves? It wasn't the armament that caused the invasion, oil & the loan was the reason.

Beyonder
= Continuing = Too long to post in one post.

-See Above.

-Threat to the international community? Ha. America is a floating iron fortress compared to Iraq. Iraq are a threat to no one. The only time they posed a tiny thread was when they kept getting armed by America.

Floating Iron Fortress? Yet a terrorist group (not a country) was able to kill thousands of American's on American soil. Look at the "Six Day War" where Israel, a small newly reestablished country, was attacked on nearly all sides by it's wealthy Arab neighbors, yet Israel won that war within six days. The U.S.S.R./Soviets can be classified as a "floating iron fortress" as well, but they lost the war to Afghanistan, who's military might isn't even on Iraq's level. Iraq's military was the 5th largest in the world during the Gulf War. It might not be as strong now, but its resources make it a formidable. A terrorist organization was able to hurt America - think what a country can do. Just 'cause America is a Super Power doesn't mean were invulnerable and should not try to protect ourselves.


If you want proof that the US are a give-to-receive country you need only look at Africa. Potentially the richest place on the planet and the only reason it isn't is because of America. Gives a little then takes a lot. You think if America seriously helped another country, and got nothing in return, that they would do so again? No way. Bush wanted to win the industrial vote when he sold 140 fighter jets to Korea now Korea are biting them on the ass saying "Give us money or we'll attack" in some way shape or form. So America proceeded to pretend they are some incredible threat. Then again even America aren't as stupid to go in and attack North Korea.

Why isn't Africa the richest place? Give some details please like I have, not just "look it up."

Regarding the U.S. doing something nice again, have any OTHER countries spent millions or billions and military troops to stop A genocide? Hell, there's a genocide going on in Sudan where the Islamic Republic of Sudan is killing millions of people. Sudan isn't that far from the Europeans so why don't they do something about it? Shows you how much of a no give, no gain group of countries they are. It's always, "Oh we get involved...but you - America - should go in first." If you don't believe me, look at the Korean War where the U.S. had more troops committed than any other country in the coalition and the Persian Gulf War (same here as well). American troops are still guarding the 38th parallel and protecting South Korea - self-fish? Ya riiiight. We've sent millions to fight against AIDS in Africa.

Solution: America and every other country should get off its ass and deal with this genocide in Sudan. The U.N. is useless - they've only dealt with two conflicts and most were lead by America. Is the U.N. good for anything? There's a freaken genocide in Sudan.

Why would we attack North Korea? They have nukes, but we'll deal with them through economic sanctions and such. Unlike Iraq, the only time North Korea attacked another country was during the Korean War and that was under a different dictator. Economic sanctions & other means of persuasion were used against Iraq already. Trying it again wouldn't have worked. His administration has proved that he would harm his neighboring countries, unlike North Korea's current administration. There's a lot of threats by the current North Korea but no such actions as that of which Saddam has done.


It's not the greatest country. You say Saddam killed many through genocide. So did Bush. Either way you look at it, this "war" has been such a farce that even the good that has come of it has been semi-cancelled out.

So did Bush? Remember what I wrote earlier? So did insurgents and they're still killing innocent civilians even when the Iraqi government is up and running - we handed the country back weeks ago. There's only some military troops left to help stabilize the country & give the government some power if needed. The good has been cancelled out? What news station have you been watching from - Al jazeera? And this isn't even over, history will ULTIMATELY show who's right and who's wrong on this. Don't just say that it didn't succeed. Their are failures (true) but also success as well. Though many have died, Iraq is a free nation. Do you even know how much that mean's? Don't just throw out that thousands have did because of this "war." Thousands more would have died if Saddam continued ruling. And when he dies of old age, his sons Odai or Qusai would've taken over and there much worse than their father, and so the cycle of tyranny continues and thousands more will die.


But...but by your logic, Iraq were a threat coz they could have had Nukes. We have them and we're no threat? The funny thing is, Saddam would never have used them coz he can't wipe USA off the map can he? If he nuked a part of the US then Iraq would cease to exist the next morning.

Obviously you missed or skipped this part in my earlier post: "There's a handful of countries that have nukes, but we DON'T go around bullying other countries, threatening them with nukes if we don't get what we want. These countries are the RESPONSIBLES, countries like North Korea or Iraq (if they had it) aren't.

Furthermore, America gave the secrets of nukes to its allies France & Great Britain to protect themselves after the Soviets finally developed their own nukes. And I doubt the French or British complained about THAT: secrets of a weapon of mass destruction. We even gave Israel nuke secrets to protect itself from its Arab neighbors. However, he these countries ever used nukes to threaten other countries and bully them around. These responsible countries wouldn't use nukes unless it was their last resort or another country is pointing nukes at them.

Tex
^
That's too much to read! stick out tongue

It is by no means the greatest country in the world.
I believe that Americans and their strong religious beliefs are greatly holding this country back.

Hollywood also exaggerates America's acceptance of "alternative lifestyles".

People in other countries watch our movies and TV programs and they get the idea that America is a very accepting, modern culture.

Nope.

The European Union and China will be the worlds next great superpowers.
America is crumbling.......in everything.

amity75
People think America is this big dumb thing but at its centre theres actually a lot of smart people.

§pearhead
Right, living in the midst of it, America isn't particularly special erm

Linkalicious
I'm gonna say America is the greatest country in the world. Because I'm American...

I would expect anyone from another country to have similar pride for the country they live in.

Beyonder
But is America "The Closest Thing To Hell," are we that bad?

Are we "backstabbers" of the world; a "no give, no gain country" that only does things internatioanlly to benefit ourselves?

There's all this stuff about how we're the devil and stuff, ya know. Are we THAT bad?

WindDancer
Wow! You guys started a thread about Canadian Comic Book superheroes, and then it turn into a debate about the war in Iraq, and George W. Bush? Gosh! You guys are amazing!

What's next? Chicken Noodle soup thread and then turns into an abortion debate? I wouldn't be surprise.

Tex
laughing out loud

Oh god, it looks like I'm going to have to read that encyclopedia up there to ensure it's not too "controversial"! eek!

HockeyHorror
*im reading it at this moment*

lil bitchiness
I was hoping to one day move to America, although i kind of think that setteling for London might be just as good. The more I read and hear about US the more its making me not want to go there. messed

HockeyHorror
im just gonna say

Che lives!!

laughing out loud

Alpha Centauri
"Saddam and America's critics would have labeled Clinton and America as warmongers & imperialist looking to enrich their pockets with Iraqi oil to boost their booming economy even more, claming that America's stirring up trouble in times of peace."

How different is this to the administration now? If of course Warmongering and imperialism is your argument.

"Agreed. America should have ended that war by taking out Saddam - yet we procrastinated in a way. However, it was George Bush senior who did it for his own political gain. The economy was in a slump (which the president was blamed for this) and reelection was coming close, so Bush senior decide to pull out to save his own popularity from dropping even more. *I hate George W. Bush (junior) as much as anyone. He's one of the most conservative republicans around, always referring to Jesus as his inspiration and that he felt it was God meant for him to become the president. Religion and politics shouldn't mix in my opinion.* However, I applaud that he took a stand (arrogance if you wanna call it, he kind is) even though most countries were against it."

George Bush Jr is only in power, as we know, because of his daddy and his daddies cronies. I admire nothing about that man. He slapped truth and justice in the face as a favour to his Dad. He gives no **** about the American people or way. It's a pretty safe assumption to say that being as he got in through unjust means and against public vote, that his agenda has nothing to do with the general public of America. He has his own agenda. Actually no scrap that. Someone has their own agenda and Bush is the mindless maniac acting it all out.

"Regarding why it took so long to go back, that entire operation was a U.N. thing but America dedicated more troops than any other country. If you have a problem with one country waging war with another over oil issues, then blame every country that was involved - whether it be sending troops or financing. Don't just point your finger at America, try the U.N. Furthermore, that continuation of oil flow from Kuwait was not just America or those countries who participated; it meant that most countries getting oil from the Middle East/Kuwait benefited as well. If anyone had a problem with this invasion, then they should've STOPPED BUYING GAS & DRIVING. If Saddam had gotten Kuwait, oil prices would've gone up and that's why the U.N. intervene. This whole deal about America being a no give, no gain country is pure bullcrap 'cause other countries were involved as well."

Other countries were involved. Correct. Yet what you are failing to see is the fact that the US were the ones with the opportunity to kill Saddam Hussein. The didn't because if they did they wouldn't have got what they wanted. They were willing to arm Iraq so long as Iraq paid them back. It happened with France during the Persian Gulf thing. America threatened to remove what economical support they were providing if France didn't send troops in.

"Yeah, he loves America. I hate this administration too (but you can't blame America itself for it). I am happy that Saddam's ass is out. If you wanna start pointing to the innocents killed, people die in wars for one. Two, the insurgence are the ones killing more innocents then American soldiers. Three, Saddam let loose most, if not every, Iraqi criminals just before the war started - have you ever thought that they contributed the killings of innocent lives? All I'm hearing is how America is responsible for the death of these innocent lives. "

I never said Saddam loves America so don't put words into my mouth. Saddam is out now yeah. But again, he would have been 10 years ago if America put others before themselves and this wouldn't be neccessary. I'm not saying America are solely responsible for the loss of innocents but all you ever see is the bodies of troops on the news. What about the 9 year old Iraqi girl who got blown to pieces by a cruise missile? The point is WHY these people are dying. Over a farce and mess-up of an invasion for reasons that not even Bush or Blair were sure of. The main reason they went in there is because people wanted revenge for the events of 9/11 and as long as someone paid it didn't matter why. All Bush did was think up a pathetic reason that is only now being shown for what it was. Again, Saddam is out but the cost of getting him out is badly high considering it could have been over.

"Supplies that he bought from us during the Iran/Iraq war. Iran was an enemy to America so we help Iraq out - "the enemy of my enemy is my friend," ever heard that line?"

I also heard "You scratch my back I'll scratch yours". The latter quote being more appropriate.

"We didn't supply these weapons so he can kill his own people; he can you blame us for that? You think we would have sold them if we knew of such intent? Give us some credit, we're not as backstabbing/murderous as you or most think."

How silly. They knew he was a nutcase yet they give him weapons just so they don't get blood on their hands. That's just bounty hunting on a global scale. "We're gonna give you mad dangerous weapons Saddam, but you be a good boy and only use them to help us. Don't you dare use them to become a powerful, menacing figurehead in your small country." You don't freakin arm someone with DANGEROUS weapons, more to the point a maniac, and then moan when they use em for bad purposes. Considering America are the first ones to complain how dangerous the world is, maybe they should quit arming the nutcases first instead of using the power they have to calm the disgruntled masses with what was essentially a giant fireworks display.

"Stop what? He gassed his own people right AFTER the coalition had pulled out - you think we wouldn't have taken him out if we knew that he'd pull something like that on his own people (especially gassing them)? And don't just blame America, this was a coalition effort. Why didn't any other countries intervened? Why is it always America that has to bleed? Others could have done this as well; the Persian Gulf neighbors the Asian & European countries."

Oh I'm not just blaming America, we had ****in morons leading us back then. John Major being the Prime Minister. UK have always been America's ***** when it comes to military use. The UK government know we need America's help so when America call we come running. Hence why US is a no receive no give country. You think if UK wasn't so dependant on US force that we would have gone in there? I doubt it but it wasn't a hard sell for John Major. Two predominantly white nations going and blowing the **** out of a small middle eastern nation who really aren't as much of a threat as people wanted them to believe.

"Tanks on the Iraq/Kuwait borders? He invaded the country & annexed it because of oil and wanting Kuwait to be part of Iraq again. And what's wrong with any country wanting to arm themselves, does a country not have rights to arm themselves? It wasn't the armament that caused the invasion, oil & the loan was the reason."

Back to the backstabbing sentiment. Bush was best pals with Saddam when he wanted Iran out of the way. As soon as he needs Iraq done in he sells tanks to their enemy. Can you blame Saddam for being a little angry? Right to arm themselves? Sure. But since when did America have the right to be an international armoury all of a sudden?

Continuing next post...

-AC

Tex
As long as you stay in the large cities you'll be alright.
It's those country bumpkins you have to worry about!

Has finti told you about his trip to Arkansas? laughing out loud

Jedi Priestess
damn people! I already graduated from college.....all this required reading blink I'll just wait for tex to read it and post...laughing

Alpha Centauri
"The U.S.S.R./Soviets can be classified as a "floating iron fortress" as well, but they lost the war to Afghanistan, who's military might isn't even on Iraq's level. Iraq's military was the 5th largest in the world during the Gulf War. It might not be as strong now, but its resources make it a formidable. A terrorist organization was able to hurt America - think what a country can do. Just 'cause America is a Super Power doesn't mean were invulnerable and should not try to protect ourselves."

Protect yourselves but not arming the world, might be a start. As for Iraq having the 5th largest army in the world, there's 4 infront of those. One of which is the US Army. So you see....

"American troops are still guarding the 38th parallel and protecting South Korea - self-fish? Ya riiiight. We've sent millions to fight against AIDS in Africa."

Yeah at the same time shipping money and provisions to North Korea because they're browning their panties about N.Korea having nukes or nuclear capabilities. Wow, troops fighting AIDS? America really must be in with the bloodlust stereotype if they're fighting medical issues with gunfire.

"Economic sanctions & other means of persuasion were used against Iraq already. Trying it again wouldn't have worked. His administration has proved that he would harm his neighboring countries, unlike North Korea's current administration. There's a lot of threats by the current North Korea but no such actions as that of which Saddam has done."

They were used in Iraq already? Oh you mean trying to persuade Saddam Hussein to fly to the States? Of course. Threats from North Korea haven't been acted out because nuking America or anyone else probably isn't something they want on their resume right now. Saddam's missiles can't even reach the outskirts of Iran. Big threat.

"Though many have died, Iraq is a free nation. Do you even know how much that mean's? Don't just throw out that thousands have did because of this "war." Thousands more would have died if Saddam continued ruling. And when he dies of old age, his sons Odai or Qusai would've taken over and there much worse than their father, and so the cycle of tyranny continues and thousands more will die."

Free nation? Ok I'll let this opinion intrigue me for a while. When Iraq starts to get on it's feet again we'll see just how much America takes as interest for getting Saddam out.

"There's a handful of countries that have nukes, but we DON'T go around bullying other countries, threatening them with nukes if we don't get what we want. These countries are the RESPONSIBLES, countries like North Korea or Iraq (if they had it) aren't."

True. America don't bully with nukes. They just do it through threatening to cripple economies. Hence why they have their finger in so many international economic pies. So if they need something they can take it or take back what they put in. As I said, it happened with France.

"Furthermore, America gave the secrets of nukes to its allies France & Great Britain to protect themselves after the Soviets finally developed their own nukes. And I doubt the French or British complained about THAT: secrets of a weapon of mass destruction. We even gave Israel nuke secrets to protect itself from its Arab neighbors. However, he these countries ever used nukes to threaten other countries and bully them around. These responsible countries wouldn't use nukes unless it was their last resort or another country is pointing nukes at them."

So just because America got lucky with arming a few of the responsibles, it takes away the fact that they are actually going around GIVING COUNTRIES THAT HAVE NOTHING, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? No it doesn't. America needs to...I dunno. Stop giving nukes to everyone. Might make the world safer. Dunno. A thought is all it is.

-AC

HockeyHorror
So just because America got lucky with arming a few of the responsibles, it takes away the fact that they are actually going around GIVING COUNTRIES THAT HAVE NOTHING, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? No it doesn't. America needs to...I dunno. Stop giving nukes to everyone. Might make the world safer. Dunno. A thought is all it is.


yes ^

Alpha Centauri
"I'm gonna say America is the greatest country in the world. Because I'm American...

I would expect anyone from another country to have similar pride for the country they live in."

I live in England and the place is a shithole. It's become an overhyped, fevered dog patch where the real essense of what made the country great has faded for puppet celebrities and lame tv shows. I don't believe in patriotism because all it is.....is land. It doesn't require your pride. I could have been born in Japan or anywhere else. It's chance. No reason to be proud.

-AC

HockeyHorror
well Nationalism is good at times...but not always.

lil bitchiness
eek! Do tell!

I have a feeling this might put me off America some more! laughing out loud

Beyonder
Is this getting anywhere Alpha Centauri? It's obvious your not going to back down and neither am I.

If you wanna continue, we can. It just seems like your not getting my point and I'm not getting yours.

I'll just address this part.


So just because America got lucky with arming a few of the responsibles, it takes away the fact that they are actually going around GIVING COUNTRIES THAT HAVE NOTHING, WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION? No it doesn't. America needs to...I dunno. Stop giving nukes to everyone. Might make the world safer. Dunno. A thought is all it is.

America armed France & Great Britain because the Soviets succeed in developing nukes. They were allies in WWII so why not give them secretes on nukes otherwise the Soviets could use nukes on them. That's why we did it, and no doubt France & Britain requested them as well. Russia was the one that gave China the secret's.

And we also gave Israel nukes to protect themselves against their Arab neighbors. This whole conflict btw Jews & Muslims happened around the Cold War era.

Pakastan, India, North Korea, Iran (possibly) developed it on their own - so don't even try and pin this one on us. North Korea and Iran (possibly), these are the Irresponsibles that pose a threat. America had nothing to do with it.

And America only built nukes to end the war - even the scientist weren't sure of its devastion and after effect. WWI had happened, then 20 years later another World War, following the Great Depression - it was a dark time. Should it be no suprise that weapons like nukes, chemical, biological weapons came out. America wasn't trying to spread nukes around the world. There's was even agreements between Russia, China, France, America, and Great Britain that they take measures no to allow any more countries get ahold of this dangerous weapon - this is after giving it to Israel.

ScarletSpider
The exact moment I lost any faith in America...was when they elected ol' Dubbya Bush. There's an old saying "learn from your mistakes". Well, why did we elect Dubbya's father if we weren't going to figure out not to do it ever again.

Interesting fact here, the only reason troops are still on the 38th parallel is because the Korean War... isn't over. They created a cease fire, but never a binding contract to completely end the war. There must be some kind of record there.

America isn't doing that well. Every empire crumbles and falls. What we need is another "super power" equal to our strength, so we can just smack each other around politically and keep each other in line. And some restructuing of the government, it just isn't working. Shit goes to forum all the time that has no reason to go to forum. We elect senators and representatives in order to avoid going to form on every issue. Do your jobs.

As far as the nuke issue goes, the world was very ignorant at the time regarding this new technology. Even up till the Cuban Missile crisis, people still thought they could win a nuclear war. It just doesn't work that way. I'm glad to see countries take affirmative action towards disarming and halting production of nukes, but this whole "war on terro" and "weapons of mass destruction" bullshit was horrible and handled very poorly, by a very incompetent group of individuals.

HockeyHorror
rise of the CCCP!!!!!

Tex
You know how finti is all atheist liberal and stuff?
Well when he was a teenager he lived in Arkansas for like 3 months.

He was out living in some small town with these really religious people that made him go to church! laughing out loud

You should PM him, he'll tell you all about it!

lil bitchiness
Hah! laughing out loud they made finti go to church!!

I would be such a rebbel and a spawn of satan if i lived somewhere like that...droolio

Big city is probably where I'll end up anyway, if i do...there is so much stereotyping when it comes to America, i guess i'll never know, till i go there!

silver_tears
start of war for one laughing out loud

Tex
New York, LA, & San Francisco are the best places too live! zorro

silver_tears
New York rocks love
But how about Dallas Texy stick out tongue

lil bitchiness
New York droolio

Cali is too far away from my precious Europe! love

Chicago is where i wanted to go for a while now!

silver_tears
Chicago seems crap messed
New York is wicked droolio
New Jersey sucks messed

Dr. Strangelove
SF is a beautiful city with lots to do, but the prices for houses and apartments are absolutely out of control. messed

lil bitchiness
Scrap that, moi is moving to Long Island, New York! droolio

HockeyHorror
California is overrated. it's not great here...

Alpha Centauri
ScarletSpider:

"The exact moment I lost any faith in America...was when they elected ol' Dubbya Bush. There's an old saying "learn from your mistakes". Well, why did we elect Dubbya's father if we weren't going to figure out not to do it ever again."

Bush Jr wasn't voted in. Al Gore beat him in votes, the votes were tampered with by the Bush family and that's why he's in power now.

To Beyonder (Gonna make this my last address too because we're not getting anywhere):

"America armed France & Great Britain because the Soviets succeed in developing nukes. They were allies in WWII so why not give them secretes on nukes otherwise the Soviets could use nukes on them. That's why we did it, and no doubt France & Britain requested them as well. Russia was the one that gave China the secret's."

Well.......how lacking of common sense can you get? Russia develop nukes, because as you claimed, they have the right to arm themselves as anyone does. So in return, we try to intimidate them by saying "Aha look now we've all got nukes!". No, AMERICA gave out the nukes and saying "No doubt France & Great Britain wanted them" seems a bit presumptuous if you ask me. Considering one of France's biggest incomes come from Disneyland Paris, which is funded by America. Don't think America never let them be reminded of that in exchange for some military support. Like Bill Hicks said: "Give us some planes or Mickey Mouse leaves the country."

"And we also gave Israel nukes to protect themselves against their Arab neighbors. "

Yeah and then if Israel switched around and all of a sudden became an enemy of US, US would go blow the shit out of them when it would be their own fault. America, the so called greatest country are the most wreckless. Fact.

"Pakastan, India, North Korea, Iran (possibly) developed it on their own - so don't even try and pin this one on us. North Korea and Iran (possibly), these are the Irresponsibles that pose a threat. America had nothing to do with it."

They do not pose a threat. If they were to launch a nuke at any country they'd have all the superpowers in the world on top of them in a matter of minutes. So it would just be like a larger scaled 9/11. Tragic? No doubt. But not a threat. After 9/11 nothing else has ever happened besides the Madrid train bomb. These men that are a threat to the world manage just two attacks. Two.

"America wasn't trying to spread nukes around the world. There's was even agreements between Russia, China, France, America, and Great Britain that they take measures no to allow any more countries get ahold of this dangerous weapon - this is after giving it to Israel."

America weren't trying to spread nukes to kill. I never suggested they were. It's just proof of their careless and hypocritcal nature. They give weapons to people who can help them and then when they are no longer needed or IF they turn hostile, they go blow the shit out of them. Simple solution: Don't give em out.

As for the agreeements. Do you not see a pattern? "Yeah let's not give nukes to all the little countries. We don't want anyone competing with us." Yet America and Great Britain supplied arms to Iraq since 1986 and then decided that after they got rid of who they needed to, they would be expendable. Which is butchery of the highest order. It's like a man with a dog. If one dog is bullying another mans dog, he goes to get a more vicious dog to take out the bully, then kills the vicious dog incase it decides to turn against him.

America is as Richard Beltzer said, a place with everything. Every possible good yet every possible evil. It has things that could make it the greatest nation of Earth but the ones that matter, are lacking and are as of right now, the ones that are on the evil side. So if the reason you believe America is the greatest is because of the good there then that's an ignorant reason. I'm getting your point. Whether you're getting mine or not is another matter. Or whether you think I'm getting yours or not is another matter. It's swings and roundabouts.

-AC

speiderman
America has an image problem around the world. As a country we ignore global warming and the aids crises. We are so disengaged. We bully our allies. And I don't like this war on terror that our President concocted. No weapons of mass destruction are in Iraq yet we attacked Saddam for no reason. Why not try diplomacy? We need to stop bullying other countries and take a look at our own problems.

ScarletSpider
"We need to stop bullying other countries and take a look at our own problems."

That would be too civilized, so of course we're not going to try it.

RaventheOnly
laughing out loud laughing laughing out loud LA and Frisco are Hell and New York if its anything like LA sucks messed

Jedi Priestess
not if you are raising kids IMHO....I've lived in the city and I was afraid to let my kid outside and play for pitys sake. Then we moved to a small town in the heartland and she can go out and just be a kid again....ride her bike all over town, go to the little country grocery store for Popsicles with her friends....I loved the city when I was in my 20's but for me now there's nothing like sitting outside on the porch swing at night and just listening to the crickets chirp. Kinda like Rockwell's America. Course I have to drive 40 miles to get to Wal-Mart or a movie theater but its worth it. This towns biggest crime spree was when the high school kids stole the towns flashing red and yellow light that hangs over head at the main crossing. LMAO wink

Tptmanno1
Cali's awesome. Very chill. but we are the wierdo's of America.

I'd say that America has the Potential to be the greatest country in the world, but we have to take a few lessons from Europe. Americans are too uptight about stuff like money and jobs. Compared to what I've heard about Europe, America is a a country of work-aholics.

KidRock
i would rather live in america then britain..you think things are better over there? or how about spain or portugal where ever that train terrorist attack happened.

HockeyHorror
greatest country in the world= Uruguay

i never hear complaints from that country laughing out loud

so i guess its a place to chill. yes

i may be wrong..

finti
HockeyHorror killer sig there, definetly one of the best here smile smile
Well I have been fortunate enough to both have lived in USA and EUROPE. In the states I lived in Arkansas and in Europe I live in Norway(a country who is still outside the European Union).
I was a little puzzeled to learn of the ignorance of the outside world among some of my fellow citizens of Arkansas. But the hospitality of the people was and still are amazing. I just love America despite their so called" faults". In my eyes those "faults" exists in all nations so they aint alone in that department. The average teen I encountered werent all that different from me when it came to most things that occupy a teenage mind. I made a load of friends and almost 20 years down the road we still have contact.

No USA aint the greatest country in the world and it sure as hell aint the worst. I dont know what is the greatest country in the world and actually I think no one knows.

The Omega

Fëanor
China may become the greatest economic powerhouse in the years to come...quite possibly outdistancing america and EU...but america is not the hellish place that a lot of people seem to think it is: here and abroad...

no country is perfect, and if it were would you want to live there? if you want to blame a thing then blame yourself, because no matter what, You(pl) voted those people in power whether by choice or not and by that i mean to those people living in countries such as Iraq when Saddam was in power....as it goes: Power to the people and pity to those who are.

Alpha Centauri
"i would rather live in america then britain..you think things are better over there? or how about spain or portugal where ever that train terrorist attack happened."

Why say you'd rather live in US than UK and then mention something that happened in two completely different countries? Stupid.

-AC

RaventheOnly
laughing out loud China will destroy its self soon laughing out loud the peasants are going to revolt and smash the government big grin

WindDancer
Another Cultural Revolution? eek!

Mao Returns!. wink

sonofasaiyan
America's cool. You guys have tight stuff and no country's perfect.

angelsflame265
it can be both

RaventheOnly
and another 26 million will die eek!

Fëanor
what's 26 compared to 5 billion already crowding our planet?

okay that was lame...but it ain't gonna happen that way...

as for America: it's a Hell of a place to live...

Alpha Centauri
Hell, I'm sure there are over 26 million people worldwide who's death would be a plus if anything, to the world.

Just look at the thousands of celebrities we could kill off to make room.

-AC

sonofasaiyan
LOL.sick laughing

RaventheOnly
Wow i think its ideas like that that make any place hell.... erm and i thought i was evil. Many deserve to die but not out of spite.

Alpha Centauri
"Wow i think its ideas like that that make any place hell.... and i thought i was evil. Many deserve to die but not out of spite."

If you already think certain people deserve to die then you've already made the leap between what you consider to be evil and good. Reasoning is just paperwork from then on.

Justin Timberlake hasn't committed mass murder or bombed his own people but I still wouldn't think twice about putting two in his forehead.

-AC

RaventheOnly
I hold deservance open for those who commit arocities against life and order.... not because they are annoying.

Alpha Centauri
There are levels of annoyance. A man who never stops talking is annoying. Death isn't deserved.

Justin Timberlake is a fevered ego that this world needs rid of and so are many like him.

-AC

Creechuur
America: The Greatest Country In The World Or The Closest Thing To Hell On Earth?

Its both.

Some things are black and white, but a question like that certainly isn't. There are so many things to take into account...what state you live in(different taxes, laws, etc.), what kind of area you live in (rich, poor, urban, suburban, desert, forest, beach, etc.), what your (or your parents) income is, what your political views are, and so on and so forth.

A person like Tex is going to have a completely different experience than me based on those factors, just like I will have a completely different experience than a millionaire from Manhatten or a beggar from Detroit. Kinda funny that, since I think its our lack of unification that keeps us from being truly great. I could go into it but I won't. Suffice it to say that I think "freedom" has replaced and eliminated "morals" in my country. "Personal freedom" to do whatever the hell we want has replaced "personal responsibility" for the consequences of our actions.

We have our problems, but so do other countries. I don't think we're so bad off. Some countries are like celebrities. Bad things happen to people all the time, but when something happens to a celebrity it ends up in all the papers, everybody makes a big deal out of it. There are people dying all over the world, but if Dubya makes a verbal slip in a speech or Britney Spear's boob falls out of her top its somehow more important and ends up on the front page.

America has lost sense of its priorities, but as for Hell On Earth, I guess that depends on which town you live in. wink

Fire
isn't this overetly political?

RaventheOnly
I concur Creechuur big grin

hobbit_dude
horray 4 china, I live here!! eek!

hobbit_dude
eek! really???! yo Im outta hee

phinney6
Screw you lol, I am a country maine bumpkin! Anyway i feel that we have a lot more freedom than other countries, i say greatest in the world. Great post CHeechur

BlackHatDefect
America:Wateful,rasist,polluted,and full of to many annoying uuber Christans.I swear,im getting out of the hellhole and moving to Assie first chance i get!

finti
Yeah Texas the worlds largest redneck resort rolling on floor laughing

The Omega

Tptmanno1
The problem with America is the loss of common sence. People in America think with their stomachs or wallets instead of their brains.

Creechuur

Creechuur
"However I totally disagree on the comparison to celebrities. Or tell me which celebrity has started a war, and caused ruin to a nation."

Tell me which country has been seen at Spago, or with its nipples showing. There, I just matched your ridiculous statement with one of my own. Don't you understand the concept of an analogy?

BackFire
America is over rated in both respects.

-Is it the greatest country in the world? Probably not, probably pretty much just like most other modern countries. I think it's a fine place to live.

-Is it the most horrific place on earth? The closest thing to hell? Of course not, it's just a piece of land with people living on it. It's perfectly fine.

I really doubt there's all that much difference between living in American and any other major country.

Alpha Centauri
America is a cool place and given the chance to live their I would because as I have said before, it has every possible good BUT it also has every possible evil. A little drastic in my ways calling it the closest thing to Hell on Earth but it is in NOOOOO way the greatest country. No way.

If anything, right now it has more bad than good.

-AC

dean7879
britain is the best country in the world...we have a brilliant history which makes me proud to be british.....a small island like britain has influences so much in the world, we have massive empire around the globe
from winning ww1 and 2
defeatin napolean,
we abolished slavery
we had people like wordsworth, shakespeare and dickens,
we invented the computer...
im pissed of with britain helping a lost cause in iraq...as long as usa and uk are there, nothin is goin to get better..
before world war 2 britain was the biggest country in the world....but cos of twats like hitler we became weak cos of all the fighting and are not as strong as we once was....if it wasnt for world war two then we would still be the most powerful country in the world.......still im proud to be british and as for america...i like americans, they are all sound people but the people who are running it are fast building up a reputation and soon they wont be remebered as a great country at all.....guarenteed
try not to take offence

The Omega

WindDancer
America the Great? Ummm....too extreme to say that. I personally I'm glad that I live in America. Is a country I don't have any fear of political retaliations. My Parents came from Central America as refugees and they were given permittion to work. My dad was fortunate to receive residency to work. After a few years he became a citizen then mother became a resident. So I'm kinda grateful that the US government gave my father a chance to live in and work. I seriously doubt that same opportunity coulda happen to my dad back in Central America.

One thing I love the most is freedom! I don't have to obey a president or listen to some dictator or even bow down to godamn King or whatever! I do what I want (as long as I don't break any laws) I go to school and learn things I wouldn't learn in some dictatorship country. I love to drive my Chevy Nova on the big freeways, and visit the beach or desert or even the mountains. I like it here. America Is not some fantasy dream land, but is a place I could go anywhere (except military bases). I like the USA just like I like Mexico or Canada or any other of the countries I have visited.

I don't wear clothes with the american flag. I don't burn the American flag to promote my views. I vote and I support independents. I not interested in Democrats or Republicans. I'm only interested on a person that keeps order and progress for the US. American Politics are important to me, but I'm not going to dedicate my life 24/7 to promote anti war or support the president. I got better things to do than to be stuck to a tv set watching the news.

I like American Sports! Baseball and Football are favorites! I like to cheer and shout for my favorite team on sunday! I like to celebrate a victory with a few beers and cheer with my friends at the stadium. Before the game starts everyone has to stand up and sing the national anthem.....I don't have a problem with that. I sing it and then I get ready to watch the game.

For me US is a cool place to live. I'm happy here, and I'm sure there are other lovely places in the world. But for now I'm here and I'm staying put......unless I have to travel and meet other people. big grin

Fire
every country has its good and its bad things.

dean7879

RaventheOnly
Spain had the best army thats why Britian avoided land conflict with them stick out tongue

Spains exploits opened the door for britian stick out tongue
Englands empire lasted 300+ years Rome... 1200+

Creechuur

Fire
It makes more than conquests and power to have a great history

"100 british men defeated 4000 zulus at the battle of rawkes drift"

that's nothing to be proud of.

RaventheOnly
the zulus had spears for god sake and brits had musket.

Trickster
*coughs*
We couldn't have won WWI and II without France and our other allies. Like America.

We also kinda started slavery... Us, the Spanish, the French and the other 'brave' explorers who managed to kidnap people and sell them. Every country has officially abolished slavery anyway.

You have named three geniuses people in the history of mankind! How many others were there?

So if we were sure that we could 'win' Iraq, you would support it? Even if it ment the death of more civilians?

Think you'll find the colonies would still have followed the lead of India and Ghandi, and America would be the most powerful country in the world. We would have probably given them independence anyway.

Alpha Centauri
"britain is the best country in the world...we have a brilliant history which makes me proud to be british"

We have great history which is why our country now ****ing sucks. All the tabloids and general public want us to be about is page 3 girls, David Beckham, England soccer team and Sunday Roast Dinners.

**** that shit. This country sucks and so do a majority of the general public here.

People of England have taken a country which the Americans envy for the most part because of our history and turned int into a ****ing dog patch.

I'm not proud to be British today coz being "British" is stuff I don't believe in now.

You name all this stuff "We" did. We also had one of the most brutal empires ever and gave everyone that was a part of it, British passports. "Hahaha how will they get over to us?" We thought we were soooooo smart. Then aeroplanes were invented and the British started getting bitchy over their own mistakes.

-AC

Corran
Then pack up, ship out and **** off.

finti
who said hell was a bad place

And for what it is worth I like Britain

heen68
America is the closet thing to hell on earth.

heen68
I can't be proud of a country who tries to wipe out a whole race of people an then take over there land. Sorry but thats my feeling.

finti
aiming at?

Fire
The US and the naitive americans I reckon finti

finti
oh and the colonial powers like Spain, Portugal, France and Britain are all innocent in that department

Fire
ofc not even belgium is guilty

finti
Belgium, Holland and Germany in Africa, nah didnt do anything wrong

botankus
PRESS RELEASE:

Prime Minister of Canada to Visit Washington
Statement by the Press Secretary

President Bush and Prime Minister John Chretien of Canada met on
July 24th with the Canadian Leader strongly supporting the war
on terrorism. Prime Minister Chretien issued the following statement:


CANADIANS WILL HELP AMERICA WITH THE WAR ON TERRORISM!

WE HAVE PLEDGED:
- 2 BATTLE SHIPS,
- 600 GROUND TROOPS,
- 6 FIGHTER JETS.

AFTER THE AMERICAN EXCHANGE RATE, THEY WILL END UP WITH:
- 2 CANOES,
- 6 MOUNTIES,
- AND A BUNCH OF FLYING SQUIRRELS

finti
blink

botankus
sorry, i joined the thread late. I guess I missed all the canadian talk.

RaventheOnly
Ummmm almost every country on earth has already tried that... and we didn't try to wipe them out our deseases weakened them and then we wanted thier land confused its bad but we are defienetly not the first or last.

lordofthejackel
ynow what australia is the best........they dont fight. when we all break out into war there just sitting down there going wtf mates? so im gonna move to australia

heen68
America

Fëanor
ok...you should really study the facts before assume that we're the only ones, and quite certainly we were not the last...

i'm gettin' the feeling that the vast majority of people outside of america thinks we're a bunch of brigands out to rule the world and destroy or in your words 'wipeout' an entire people to get what we want...we're not

and if you think i'm being naive, then so be it...but i can't help thinking that WE'RE the only guilty ones of that awful travesty...and that WE started that trend, and WE'RE continuing that trend...and that people such as yourselves keep drilling that fact into everyone's head...

America is not perfect, it has a lot of major issues...but i love it here because i live here...if i didn't, then why in the world would i want to stay someplace i didn't like? and for those that hate this country that live IN this country, then get a job, earn some money, buy a plane ticket then leave...because if anything, you'll always have a choice...

and that's a lot more than some people have in countries that fare less than western societies...

WindDancer
^Ditto

heen68
If your an American and you don't like what your president is doing then you should buy a plane ticket and leave?????? why??? why leave, All Americans love their country but that doesn't mean they should stay quiet if they don't agree with something. We might aswell be living with Saddam Hussain as the President if it's wrong to air our views and the only option for us is like it or leave. How many countries would we be leaving? All countries have got pasts (or even presents) they are not proud of but we can't start leaving in hords, where do we go? the north pole?

Alpha Centauri
"I can't be proud of a country who tries to wipe out a whole race of people an then take over there land. Sorry but thats my feeling"

England is one of the most barbaric countries in history. At least it was. Now, we're America's whooping *****. When there's an Iraq situation it doesn't take much for us to say "Yeah we're right with you".

"Then pack up, ship out and **** off."

Silence. I plan to by the way.

-AC

Omegaman
I would say to judge how great a country is to live in by this:'

"How many people are trying to get in and how many are trying to get out"

Check the stats for America, and you will see my point! USA greatest country overall, period! No not perfect, but close enough ! I might want to live in only one other country- Japan. I really respect their culture.

§nakehead
to polital it will be closed

dean7879
Originally posted by RaventheOnly
the zulus had spears for god sake and brits had musket. [/QUOTE

actually the zulus also had guns cos earlier they had earlier slayed about 800 british men..so there u go

finti
and how many different countries have you lived in to make a comparison?????????

dean7879
overall britain i reckon is overall the better country...but of course i would say that woudnt i........we are not as powerful as we was but there is enough history and facts to go along with my opinion..
nowadays america is probably the most powerful country.....but u cant deny that a small country like britain has had influence all over the world

Creechuur
Jeez Heen, live in the past much? America has done so many questionable things, and all you can come up with is the Native American thing? This thread may be a bit much for you kid, you might want to stick with the "I love Orlando" threads until you get some edjimacation.

Its one thing to criticize the country you live in and exercise your right to free speech. I love my country, but I recognize that we have problems. Its another thing entirely to do nothing but ish-talk the country you live in. Like Feanor, I say those folks should get the Hell out, no matter what country youre talking about.

You non-Americans crack me up with your weird views of the US. You guys have no clue. Come visit us and see, we're no better or worse than anyone else, we're just popular with the critics. Its sad that our politicians are so out of touch, and thats what you base a lot of your negativity on, but the average US citizen is usually good people.

Good point Omegaman. If the US is Hell On Earth, there sure are a lot of people that want to burn in Hell!

Alpha Centauri
"overall britain i reckon is overall the better country...but of course i would say that woudnt i"

Why though? I really don't get why people from Britain feel they have to love this place. You don't HAVE to love your country.

America is cool but it's also shit. It's a big mixture. Greatest country in the world today it is not.

-AC

dean7879
britain and america are not perfect but they are not ****in barbarians like some countrys.....oh and yes i do have to love this country...its done nothin wrong to me and i feel proud where i live the same way americans are proud of there country.....alpha, if u dont like your country then why dont you go and live in iraq and see if you like it better over there...then see how quickly you run back home

finti
ohyeah cause there aint other options than US, Britain and Iraq

heen68
Yep i'm sticking with orlando threads

But me an my parents where going to go to America my dad was going to go over first then we where going over later but they wouldn't let my dad on the plane they said they didn't trust him.

ragesRemorse
America fails for one reason, and one reason only The poeple. Sombody is always blaming somebody else, No body is taking the blame, like the good old days, when you lose you lose. Now this country is falling within. It is the People who tear it apart. People dont even know what they vote for. Shit they read headlines, listen to word of mouth and make thier decision. People need to get devoted. or atelast inspired to do research. If Our Polotics are so corrupt then why do we keep voting in corrupt polotics. It seems that with every presidency someone crooked always gets in, well maybe WE the People should stand up and do somthing or say somthing, but we wont, we will just continue blaming everyone else, and agreeing with everyone else who has no clue what the shit they are talking about, but have a good idea, which is a bad and incorrect idea.

dean7879
do u think george bush is the leader of america.....there is a secret organisation who runs america and most the world...they are the illuminati
A century ago, the Conspiracy(illuminati) had bankrupted Europe with its many wars (the lifeblood of the Conspiracy). A peaceful America, protected by two oceans, was on the verge of becoming the most powerful and prosperous nation on earth and the Conspiracy did not "own" it. This was "unacceptable". The Conspiracy wished to take control of American money, "mobilize its credit" to finance World War I and overthrow the Czar (for Russian money). And it needed America to assure victory over Germany (its hated enemy even before WWI). Wilson was pressured into signing the Federal Reserve Act and to declare war on Germany. Later he was to say, "I have involuntarily ruined my government". Ominously, he warned, "Some of the biggest men in the United States are afraid of something. They know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." (And it has grown enormously from a century of war.) scary isnt it but i believe it sadly

ragesRemorse
and the world is flat right? we never landed on the moon either? and bigfoot is my basemant.

dean7879
no the world is round.....yeah im sure u did land on the moon...u better get him out before he causes some damage.... cool

whether u believe the illuminati stuff is up to you but if you look around the internet there is a lot of evidence to prove otherwise
there was even a documentary on tv about it

Alpha Centauri
"do u think george bush is the leader of america.....there is a secret organisation who runs america and most the world...they are the illuminati
A century ago, the Conspiracy(illuminati) had bankrupted Europe with its many wars (the lifeblood of the Conspiracy). "

The Illuminati? The people of the light? The myth? Ha. Funny. It's fact that America's total wealth is owned by about 12 people. However they aren't the Illuminati. Someone watches a little too much Tomb Raider.

"scary isnt it but i believe it sadly"

You believe everything The Sun newspaper tells you most likely. Yeargh, patriotism.

"oh and yes i do have to love this country...its done nothin wrong to me and i feel proud where i live the same way americans are proud of there country.....alpha, if u dont like your country then why dont you go and live in iraq and see if you like it better over there...then see how quickly you run back home"

Listen bud, you (regardless of what you think) do not have to love this country. You don't HAVE to. If you choose to love a piece of land like you do, then fair enough. But you don't have to.

Why do dumb people always assume it's a choice between love Britain and stay here or hate it and leave? I plan to leave but I will remain here as long as I wish. Why would I have to go to Iraq anyway? What gives you that impression.

Think before you speak. I don't like making fools out of people.

-AC

Yesterdays Gone
i'm not saying america's perfect, cause its not. but a lot of the people who are commenting about america and life here, dont even live here blink

Yesterdays Gone
by here i mean america, since thats where i'm at

ragesRemorse
It is still the land aof oppertunity. But it is also the land where the working man lives to work every damn fine day of his/her life away, just so another breed can come up and hate on what there parents and people before them gave them , or diddnt give them, where instead they could go out live there own life, but no we just complain instead of acting.

We are united though, with the right inspirational speakers this land can infact be your land, but However the spectrme does have it's opposite end. Terrible inspirational speaker's, (media) can influence an entire nation into doom. We can arise to do the greatest of things when we choose to, but untill then we'll be suing mcdonalds because it makes our children fat.

Either way America Kicks ass man . freedom is still appraent even if the cold shoulder is also becomming apparent ,

finti
well they should be a little bit more careful alienating some of its allies though

Creechuur
RR, its all too easy to blame the "people" for ruining America. Its not a new thought and its not correct. Its the "bad people" who ruin it. We live in a system where the rich and powerful all too often cast their morals away for special interests, money, whatever. That kinda crap is not exclusive to America either, it happens in just about every country with a decent financial status and an elitist-corporate-political system. I, for one, will not take the blame for my countries failings when my voice largely goes unheard...except in forums like this. I try to do whats right, be nice to my fellow man, and make the area around me a positive (if sarcastic) place to be. The system will have to crumble from the inside (which I think it is in the process of doing) before the 'people' can work to make it better.

"there is a secret organisation who runs america and most the world...they are the illuminati"

And on that ridiculous note, I'm done with this thread.

dean7879
u dont like making fools of people but u like making a fool of yourself...and for the record i HAVE NOT saw tomb raider....oh and nothin about the illuminati has EVA been in the goddamn newsapers.....oh and what gives u the right to say the illuminati dont exsist....what the hell do u know.....i think it is you who watches too much tv and films becuase your reaction of the illuminati is typical...tv and film has brainwashed you and lots of other people and had got you all to believe that everything around u is is perfectly ok and that you know everything that is going on in the world...how wrong u all are....the sooner people wake up..the better

finti
yeah and you need to take a reality pill and come back from lala land.
The illuminati hystericalhysterical

Creechuur
I had deep fried Twinkie at the Boardwalk amusement park this past week, and LET ME TELL YOU...its was sinful. It was so damn good I was kind of growling as I ate it.

Hawp...Grrrrmmmhhh...chewchewchew...ahhhhggggggg....hrrrrrrrmmghhghggh...sssrrrrrrrrrrp!

Its a Twinkie, right, but its covered in a thick sweet batter and deep fried. The cream filling liquifies and the batter gets all crunchy and they serve it with chocolate or strawberry sauce. DAAAAAAAAAMN!!!!

I also won my GF the only stuffed toy in the park that she wanted. It happened to be at a game that I suck at (no, she wouldn't be so kind as to like one of the toys from the games I'm good at), but I knew I had to deliver, cuz I love her. So, long story short, I focused, used the Force, and with two throws won two stuffed flowers with bendy stems for my pretty lady...thats right, not one, TWO. I'm not a full time stud, but I have my moments.

Theres no secret society dude. Theyre called politicians, CEO's, religious leaders, millionaires, etc. and theyre right there in front of your face.

ElectricBugaloo
millionaires? bah, it's billionaires now.

don't forget alan greenspan, one of hte most powerful men in the world

Mr Zero
You dont have to dig down for hidden international conspiracies, the ideals of the illuminati (fictional or otherwise) are alive and well and happy for the publicity - these days they are known as The G8 Summit.

They have us by the balls so tight they can smile and wave for the TV cameras as they conspire and dont care who knows it.

Alpha Centauri
"u dont like making fools of people but u like making a fool of yourself...and for the record i HAVE NOT saw tomb raider...."

Poor guy. It's SEEN. I have not SEEN Tomb Raider.

"oh and what gives u the right to say the illuminati dont exsist....what the hell do u know.....i think it is you who watches too much tv and films becuase your reaction of the illuminati is typical"

If there's one thing I'm not it's brainwashed. I believe in certain conspiracy theories. However, someone like you (we intellectuals call them, one-watt light bulbs) would believe that you are being smart by assuming they must be real. You think that by saying all this is makes you one of the freed. One of the people who strayed from the flock and broke free. It doesn't. You're just one of the pseudo-intellectuals who believe what they are told is clever stuff. You love a country for no reason, you're a patriot. If anyone needs to wake up it's you. You say who am I to say they don't exist. Who are you to say they do? Shut up then.

"tv and film has brainwashed you and lots of other people and had got you all to believe that everything around u is is perfectly ok and that you know everything that is going on in the world...how wrong u all are....the sooner people wake up..the better"

Haha. This coming from a guy who is a fan of The Streets, a guy who believes he has to love his country coz he is told to and a guy who has a winston churchill and English soccer team signature.

You are nothing but a tool. You and people like you think that you're smart coz you deny everything in the world. Smart people don't believe everything is fake and false, we can tell if it is. So we don't have to assume we're being lied to, we know when we are.

What you are living is nothing but controlled rebellion. People in power LOVE guys like you. They drop a few "secret" side conspiracies for you to have fun with, wind you up and let you go like a clockwork mouse. You and others like you are the biggest brainwashees there are.

-AC

dean7879
i dont need you to tell me how to spell...if i want to write saw then i write saw....if you was smart then you know that the correct word to say is because..not coz..its you who needs to spell.. i dont need people who think they are smart like you to tell me what to do.....and whats it got to do with you what i like...if i like the streets i like them...what the hell has that got to do with anything...yeah i like football...what is your point....all i was saying is that there is some things happening int he world that we dont know about...some conspiracys are true and others are not...just becasue i believe that some might have some truth to them....people can be manipulated in certain ways to believe something that isnt true...can they not?

finti
you kind of stated it as a fact more than just saying it

dean7879
it could very well be a fact

finti
only in lala land

The Omega

shaber
The UK is case in point for people wanting to get in despite it being something of a floating cesspit.

Creechuur

shaber
eh? try going to Bradford or Oldham and see if you're in any condition to type afterwards!

finti
eh why do they have illiteracy viruses there confused confused cool eek!

dean7879
omega did i say anythin about me being proud of killing 1 million indians...thats like three times people of bought something up which i did not say......oh and the zulu's had guns too smartass.....and as for the illuminati..theres no need to be sarcastic on the issue...there as to be some truth in the matter or there woudnt be pages and pages of information on them, nor would there be tv documentarys...and the comment about illuminati working with aliens..well now who is being silly......tell me this...why would president roosevelt say this:
Wilson was pressured into signing the Federal Reserve Act and to declare war on Germany. Later he was to say, "I have involuntarily ruined my government". Ominously, he warned, "Some of the biggest men in the United States are afraid of something. They know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

Alpha Centauri
"i dont need you to tell me how to spell...if i want to write saw then i write saw....if you was smart then you know that the correct word to say is because..not coz..its you who needs to spell.. i dont need people who think they are smart like you to tell me what to do"

There's a difference between abbreviation, slang and incorrect grammar. Wh-wh-whooped.

"all i was saying is that there is some things happening int he world that we dont know about...some conspiracys are true and others are not...just becasue i believe that some might have some truth to them....people can be manipulated in certain ways to believe something that isnt true...can they not?"

Man you can believe what you want, as do I. So you can no more call me a person who is brainwashed when you give off the actions of someone who has been brainwashed. You like things like The Streets which just so happen to be the flavour of the month. There is no reason to love the English soccer team or the country we live in but you do becaus you're told to.

"it could very well be a fact"

Until you can actually show us evidence to the point that the existance of the illuminati and their activity today is concrete and undeniable, then it isn't a fact. Sorry.

""Some of the biggest men in the United States are afraid of something. They know there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.""

Everybody knows that though. Everyone knows that the entire wealth of America is owned between a few people. Just because we don't know who they are it doesn't make them aliens.

"and as for the illuminati..theres no need to be sarcastic on the issue...there as to be some truth in the matter or there woudnt be pages and pages of information on them, nor would there be tv documentarys"

There's pages and pages of info on fundamentalist Christianity made by fundamentalist Christians who believe Dinosaurs never existed. Seeeeeee where I'm going? Yep. Pages of information mean nothing. I could go write pages of something and post it, somebody would believe it. Also, why does the fact that there's TV documentaries make it closer to the truth? You believe what TV tells you? Now who's brainwashed.

*Meanwhile, AC gets tired of being right*

-AC

finti
howcome? eek!

dean7879

Alpha Centauri
"and why do u keep bringin aliens into the subject?
and again what has the streets got to do with anythin...i liked there first eva album which was out two or three years ago...i dont listen to music which is on mtv because it is crap....i prefer metal if u must know
and whats christianity got to do with anything...that is a religeon
the illuminati wasnt a one world goverment...is that impossible to believe? hitler wanted a one world goverment..."

A) The Streets reference was to prove a point that you are too oblivious to see.

B) The Christianity thing was given as an example of just how pointless your "pages and pages of info" claim was.

C) Stop making it out to be a fact when you cannot prove it. Technically I can deny their SPECIFIC existance. You cannot prove they are real.

"From the days of Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx (Moses Mordecai Levy) and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kuhn (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence and impossible equality, has been steadily growing"

Everything that breaks people out of their mundane mind workings, grows. It's natural. Some people choose to investigate these theories and follow up what conspiracies they've heard. Others aka You, seem to just sit there and believe it.

-AC

The Omega

shaber
Don't get her started on the Comprehensive education system Dean! eek!

dean7879
http://www.hope-of-israel.org/p159.htm - roosevelt quote
http://www.davidicke.net/tellthetruth/facts/americanwo.html - info on illuminati
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2/nwoquotes.html - well known people talkin about illuminati


there is your link omega

yeah i agree extroadinary claims do nead extraordinary proof
all im sayin is that there is so much information on the so called illuminati that i think people shouldnt dismiss it so easily

Jinxy
Sorry, after seeing the endings of Metal Gear Solid 2 and Deus Ex 2, I can never take another conspiracy theory seriously again.

I saw a segment by Michale Moore about a group of business oriented government officials from 8 different contries that get together to coordinate their plans for market domination... That I can belive in. But all this shadow government stuff doesn't hold water in my opinion.

Mads Davidsen
......America is not greatest country, but one of them....... happy
happy ........like the rest of the world.....big grin.........

Alpha Centauri
"there is your link omega

yeah i agree extroadinary claims do nead extraordinary proof
all im sayin is that there is so much information on the so called illuminati that i think people shouldnt dismiss it so easily"

There's also much info on bigfoot, loch ness monsters, legendary thunderbirds. It doesn't make them real.

-AC

dean7879
yeah but its a lot different then mythical animals lurking in forests and lakes
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2/nwo-letter.html

Alpha Centauri
"yeah but its a lot different then mythical animals lurking in forests and lakes
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/articles2/nwo-letter.html"

You believe David Icke?!?! Wow hahaha. Lame. He raises some interesting points in his books but you trust a man who believes we are slaves to lizards? Hahaha. Icing on the cake.

-AC

dean7879
yeah he does raise some interesting points..thats why im interested

oh so he is the only person that believes it...some things that he sez are absurd but i dont believe everythin that he says.....you think you are smart alpha but you aint...u have a cartoon sig for christ sake..ii am the power - the silver surfer....and u go around as if u know everything

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