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heres my version of the Hierarchy.

1. Thanos w/ THOTU
2. The One Above All
3. Living Tribunal
4. Adam Warlock w/ The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death
6. Eternity
7. Infinity
8. The Celestials
9. Master Order/Lord Chaos
10. Galactus
11. Eternals
12. Shaper of Worlds
13. Beyonder
14. Odin
15. Power Cosmic
16. Phoenix Force
17. Franklin Richards
18. Molecule Man
19. Destroyer
20. Pantheon of Gods
21. Kubik
22. Mephisto
23. Thor w/ Odinforce
24. Beta Ray Bill
25. Silver Surfer
26. Thor
27. Captain Universe (Cosmic Spider-Man)

who dares to disagree!?

how is beta ray bill on top of surfer, but thor is below???? that should be corrected, how i dunno. there are also other godly beings that could fit somewhere near the top

the infinites dwarfed eternity in power. actually 1 of the 3 infinites HAND dwarfed eternity. so i think they deserve a spot somewhere near the top.

Beta Ray Bill is an enhanced Thor. and the Surfer is stronger than the regular Thor.

Nice list, but I'm missing some persons... where are Korvak ? Blackheart ? Onslaught ? Chton ? Zeus ...?

if you want more, you get more...

1. Thanos w/ THOTU
2. The One Above All
3. Living Tribunal
4. Adam Warlock w/ The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death
6. The Infinites
7. Eternity
8. Infinity
9. The Celestials
10. Master Order/Lord Chaos
11. Eon
12. Epoch
13. Chton
14. Galactus
15. Eternals
16. Korvak
17. Shaper of Worlds
18. Zeus
19. Odin/Odinforce
20. Beyonder
21. Power Cosmic
22. Phoenix Force
23. Onslaught (at full power)
24. Franklin Richards
25. Nate Grey/X-Man
26. Molecule Man
27. Destroyer
28. Pantheon of Gods
29. Kubik
30. Mephisto
31. Thor w/ Odinforce
32. Beta Ray Bill
33. Silver Surfer
34. Thor
35. Morg
36. Gabriel the Airwalker
37. Captain Universe (Cosmic Spider-Man)
38. Terrax the Tamer
39. Firelord
40. Nova

Um, where's Stiltman?

Genis-Vell at full potential should be moderatly high on the list. With a thought he killed a world full of invading troops and defended the planet against a fleet of star ships.

Should people like Gladiator and Hyperion be put on the list? Or should it be geared more to cosmically powered?

Surfer should be above Mephisto. By far.

Hahaha quite cool that amidst the cosmic gods and celestials you've got Franklin Richards.

-AC

Shouldnt the X-man be on the list too hes just as powerful as franklin richards

You just said he was more powerful.......

Make your mind up Mitch and try to make coherent posts instead of just building post count.

-AC

Im not mitch im surfer 52

Nova? No way.

Where's Atleza.

got a pretty good line up there.

Is The Beyonder still alive?I dont think Death should be on the list cause she basically is there to collect you when its your time to go does she have any powers ,I mean she doesnnt kill you she not good or evil and she definitly shouldnt be above Eternity....and Thanos w/ THOTU shouldnt be above THE ONE ABOVE ALL cause if you control THOTU your basically the one above all than again someone or something had to create the heart of the universe and that person was probably THE ONE ABOVE ALL and he would still be above THOTU....And Thor shouldnt be on the list cause he doesnt posses any magcal powers w/o his hammer he cant fly w/o it he cant teleport w/o it he is superman w/o the power of flight ...CORRECT ME IF i'M WRONG BUT ONSLAUGHT doesnt exist anymore so he shouldnt be there anymore

Stan Lee said that Thanos is weaker than Galactus.

nope

no whoever has the Heart controls all realities and is above all. hence why Thanos obliterated all life in the universe, including TOAA

well Thanos doesnt have the Heart anymore and he happens to fall on that list!

Thanos is only weaker when he doesnt have the Infinity Gauntlet or, of course, The Heart.

Yeah, I'm sick and tired of reading "Thanos with THOTU will defeat all !" or "Thanos with THOTU is more powerful than Galactus !". Thanos this and Thanos that...

So what ? Everybody with THOTU is godlike.

thats what I'm GETTING at the list shouldnt consist of characters that are dead or charcters that HAD a specific power or item making them ultra powerful...who ever has the item THOTU AND THE INFINITY GAUNTLET should be on list or better yet the item itself should be on the list

yep. and when i made the list, i tried to think of who had it last. low and behold.

and another thing why would you put powers up on the list and than put up SILVERSURFER AND FIRELORD on the list to? Phoenix Force was also on the list but no jean grey yeah i know Jean grey doesnt have the Phoenix Force anymore but if SS AND FL DIDNT have the power cosmic the wouldnt have any powers at all

Thanos is the man. The list is a bit dodgy though.

Still, it's always gonna be largely down to opinion.

-AC

its not the same case as Thanos. they have the power cosmic. always have, and unless someone like Galactus thinks otherwise, they always will!

hey WHY DONT WE all TALK like superboriqua AND shout and TALK IN CAPS and then rant on and on WITH NO PUNCTUATION at all and WHINE AND WHINE about THEIR STUPID comic BOOK opinions!!!

did i hurt your feelings mane ? my stupid comicbook opinions ? your the one who came up with the stupid thread , thats what forums are for to voice Your opinion. i didnt think punctuations mattered since we're not in school .

nope you didnt hurt my feelings

My Marvel Hierarchy (what do you all think?):

1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Dormammu/Shuma Gorath
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Cyttarok/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod
26. Juggernaut

"i didnt think punctuations mattered since we're not in school "

It's always important.

Regarding the list, I don't see how Juggernaut should be there if Doom, Hulk and Vision aren't. I also don't see how Mephisto is above Surfer and Thor.

-AC

Where is frickin Atleza?

Anyone may be as powerful as Thanos if they had the Heart.

But that's like saying anyone would win the next Grand Prix if they drove like Schumacher. Thanos makes it happen.

Dude. Don't try and make some sort of petty insult to Mane. Mane is on my list.

And now you are, too.

hey Beyonder, where is the Power Cosmic? if the Phoenix Force is on your list, than the Power Cosmic should be too. also, Magneto and Juggernaut are too high on the list. and wheres Hulk???

Alpha Centauri
Zenn-Lavian Ambassador

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Zenn-La
"i didnt think punctuations mattered since we're not in school "

It's always important.

Regarding the list, I don't see how Juggernaut should be there if Doom, Hulk and Vision aren't. I also don't see how Mephisto is above Surfer and Thor.

Alpha Centauri

Regarding the list, I don't see how Juggernaut should be there if Doom, Hulk and Vision aren't. I also don't see how Mephisto is above Surfer and Thor.

I was just lazy that's all. And this was also when the Computer Lab was shutting down; they actually had a timer to automatically shut down the computers.

- Mephisto stalemated Galactus in his hell realm.
- He easily toyed with Thor when they fought.
- Hela, who's =< Mephisto, aged Thor & nearly killed him but was stopped by Odin.
- Was among the cosmic beings who attacked Thanos w/ IG, while Thor was only a part of the group of Earthlings that battled a depowered IG Thanos who was trying to impress Death.
- Surfer only beat Mephisto cause of his pure soul. Mephisto's always wanted Surfer's soul. Adam Warlock beat Mephisto & kicked his ass around only with the assistance of the Soul Gem.
- Mephisto rules an entire realm and draws power from it, his role in the universe is more important than both of them as well. Powerwise, he's much more powerful than these two.

There I fixed it and added Loki, Hulk, Genis-Vell, etc. as well.

My Marvel Hierarchy (what do you all think?):

1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Dormammu/Shuma Gorath
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Cyttarok/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing

Mane

hey Beyonder, where is the Power Cosmic? if the Phoenix Force is on your list, than the Power Cosmic should be too. also, Magneto and Juggernaut are too high on the list. and wheres Hulk???

The Power Cosmic is not a sentient being like the Phoenix Force and hard to gauge as well. Same thing with the Enigma Force and that's why I didn't include it too. While the Infinity Gauntlet and Heart of the Universe are easily gauged and more significant than either the Enigma Force or Power Cosmic. Magneto and Juggernaut aren't too high up. They're where they're suppose to be.

"23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing"

i think this should all be wiped off. they are all about on the same level, and they are all mixed up if you ask me...........

"23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing"

i think this should all be wiped off. they are all about on the same level, and they are all mixed up if you ask me...........

Is the Champion still alive? I though he hung out with the elders for awhile and was a bigwig. If he was mentioned already, I apologize.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/c/championoftheuniverse.htm

does anyone know which comic series Thanos gets the Heart of the Universe in???

I want to get that comic series...

Its called, "The End". I did have a pic of one of the issues, its gone now

heres the picture of it. i have this picture in a 24x36 inch framed print on my wall lol.
http://imagecache2.allposters.com/images/DIA/FEB031651.jpg

JuggernautFan

"23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing"

They're not on the same level.

Is the Surfer above Thor?

Yes.

DAMN YOU BEYONDER! You just made my list, too!

FeceMan

DAMN YOU BEYONDER! You just made my list, too!

No thanks FeceMan, can't come to your party. Kind of busy man so just take me off that list. I'm sure somebody would come.

Lol.

i found this list on the internet somewhere, and i think its pretty accurate!

1. The Heart Of The Universe
2. The One Above All
3. Living Tribunal
4. Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death
6. The Infinites
7. Eternity/Infinity/Galactus (full power)
8. Oblivion
9. The Celestials/Franklin Richards (full power)
10. Master Order/Lord Chaos
11. Chronos/X-Man (full power)/Onslaught (full power)
12. Love/Hate
13. Eon/Epoch/Chton/Stranger/In-Betweener/Oshtur/Agamotto/Hoggoth/Galactus (normal power)
14. Ego the Living Planet
15. Dark Gods/Elder Gods
16. Eternals
17. Korvak
18. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder
19. Phoenix Force/Hyperstorm
20. Dormammu/Shuma Goroth/Franklin Richards (normal power)/X-Man (normal power)
21. Demogorge the God Eater
22. Set/Cyttarok/Atum the God Eater/Demiurge/Gaea/Molecule Man
23. Odin/Zeus/Zuras/Asgardian Destroyer/Shaman
24. Pantheon of Gods/Kubik
25. Mephisto
26. King Thor/Thanos/Hulk (full power)
27. Beta Ray Bill/Adam Warlock/Silver Surfer
28. Thor/Drax/Morg/Gladiator/Terrax the Tamer/Dr. Strange
29. Captain Universe/Quasar
30. Genis-Vell/Blackheart/Loki
31. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Firelord/Apocalypse
32. Atleza/Holocaust/Nova/Nimrod/Ultron/Mandarin/Cable (without virus)
33. Magneto (full power)/Cable (with virus)
34. Vision (full power)/Professor Xavier/Jean Grey
35. Juggernaut/Hulk (normal power)
36. Namor (in water)/The Thing/Colossus/Iron Man/Wonder Man
37. Dr. Doom/T'Challa
38. Vision (normal power)/Ghost Rider/Spider-Man/Namor (out of water)
39. Captain America/Daredevil

Dr. Doom's too low.

Mane
i found this list on the internet somewhere, and i think its pretty accurate!

You found this somewhere on the internet? You mean from this thread?

Here's your hierarchy in page one:

1. Thanos w/ THOTU
2. The One Above All
3. Living Tribunal
4. Adam Warlock w/ The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death
6. The Infinites
7. Eternity
8. Infinity
9. The Celestials
10. Master Order/Lord Chaos
11. Eon
12. Epoch
13. Chton
14. Galactus
15. Eternals
16. Korvak
17. Shaper of Worlds
18. Zeus
19. Odin/Odinforce
20. Beyonder
21. Power Cosmic
22. Phoenix Force
23. Onslaught (at full power)
24. Franklin Richards
25. Nate Grey/X-Man
26. Molecule Man
27. Destroyer
28. Pantheon of Gods
29. Kubik
30. Mephisto
31. Thor w/ Odinforce
32. Beta Ray Bill
33. Silver Surfer
34. Thor
35. Morg
36. Gabriel the Airwalker
37. Captain Universe (Cosmic Spider-Man)
38. Terrax the Tamer
39. Firelord
40. Nova

Here's mine:

1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Dormammu/Shuma Gorath
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Cyttarok/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing

Here's the current one you claim you found "somewhere" on the internet:

1. The Heart Of The Universe
2. The One Above All
3. Living Tribunal
4. Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death
6. The Infinites
7. Eternity/Infinity/Galactus (full power)
8. Oblivion
9. The Celestials/Franklin Richards (full power)
10. Master Order/Lord Chaos
11. Chronos/X-Man (full power)/Onslaught (full power)
12. Love/Hate
13. Eon/Epoch/Chton/Stranger/In-Betweener/Oshtur/Agamotto/Hoggoth/Galactus (normal power)
14. Ego the Living Planet
15. Dark Gods/Elder Gods
16. Eternals
17. Korvak
18. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder
19. Phoenix Force/Hyperstorm
20. Dormammu/Shuma Goroth/Franklin Richards (normal power)/X-Man (normal power)
21. Demogorge the God Eater
22. Set/Cyttarok/Atum the God Eater/Demiurge/Gaea/Molecule Man
23. Odin/Zeus/Zuras/Asgardian Destroyer/Shaman
24. Pantheon of Gods/Kubik
25. Mephisto
26. King Thor/Thanos/Hulk (full power)
27. Beta Ray Bill/Adam Warlock/Silver Surfer
28. Thor/Drax/Morg/Gladiator/Terrax the Tamer/Dr. Strange
29. Captain Universe/Quasar
30. Genis-Vell/Blackheart/Loki
31. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Firelord/Apocalypse
32. Atleza/Holocaust/Nova/Nimrod/Ultron/Mandarin/Cable (without virus)
33. Magneto (full power)/Cable (with virus)
34. Vision (full power)/Professor Xavier/Jean Grey
35. Juggernaut/Hulk (normal power)
36. Namor (in water)/The Thing/Colossus/Iron Man/Wonder Man
37. Dr. Doom/T'Challa
38. Vision (normal power)/Ghost Rider/Spider-Man/Namor (out of water)
39. Captain America/Daredevil

Looks like you combined mine with yours and added some more characters.

no i didnt. i did a search on most powerful characters in the marvel universe, and i found a website that linked to a website that was built just for that list. i havent even heard of some of those

though, i will say that its very close to your list. just shows you know what your talking about

Then can you provide a link.

no problem! http://www.geocities.com/muhierarchy/

Nice link to a page. I guess I should have specified a site and not a page. Anyone could've easily posted that onto a page. Lists pertaining to a subject are usually part of an entire site or many directories. http://www.geocities.com is the host. And /muhierarchy/ is not a site, it's a page most can create.

Furthermore, there's no title of what the list is about, no author, no date, no email contact address, no links to any page or back or forward movement. Looks like someone (you IMO) copied and pasted it onto a page.

Please try again Mane, I'm not convinced.

Alpha Centauri

Coz Hulk has whooped Thor before. Taken hits from Mjolnir that would kill almost anything and walked out with cracked ribs.

Surfer may be more powerful overall but like, a fight between the two would be a stalemate. Hulk couldn't hurt Surfer but Surfer's beams wouldn't do much to Hulk. Floor him for a bit as he did before but that was it.
I disagree. Thor is more powerful but holds back. Hulk can take a lot of punishments and diss out many as well but Thor's godblast, god storm, and over all versitility puts him above Hulk. True Hulk can be stronger then Thor, but Hulk would lose if both fought with no mercy.

Same goes with SS. Hulk can punch SS all he want's but SS can and have absorbed Hulk's powers and weakened him. His versality and cosmic powers are more than enough to handle Hulk if he does not hold back.

thats exactly the way i think

Yeah but we all know Surfer would never do that. He values everything too much. He would know that deep down it's Banner and would no way unleash on him.

Anyway, that Norrin Radd is why I feel Hulk is above them.

-AC

Alpha Centauri

Surfer may be more powerful overall but like, a fight between the two would be a stalemate. Hulk couldn't hurt Surfer but Surfer's beams wouldn't do much to Hulk. Floor him for a bit as he did before but that was it.

According to this statement of your's earlier, we're arguing based on powers and not personality. If SS doesn't hold back and both use their powers without mercy then SS wins.

I agree that taking character into consideration - they'd stalemate.

What???

He means sometimes it's written that heroes/villains have such powers but never really use em.

-AC

go screw off i dont have to prove anything to you. i gave you a link and thats where i got the list

Pissy aren't we. You copied and pasted your list onto a page. Then you tried to pass it off as the site you found your list on to authenticate your credibility. Don't lie, I KNOW you're lying. Just admit it.

lying about what??? dude what the hell are you talking about! OH MY GOD you wont let up about this gay conspiracy that i "combined yours and my list"! just drop it! i dont even know some of those characters! good lord...

Just pointing out the facts that's all.

fine here! heres the website! now leave it alone!

http://www.geocities.com/spiderman_page00/Home.html

Thank You. Nice website you have there Austin/Mane.

Thanks alpha

OMFG! thats not my website! my name is Eric! gimme a break...

How about the Elders of the universe. And i would put death and eternity on the same rank because i think they are polar opposites. Zeus definatley ranks under odin. Galactus's power is ranked amoung the Celestrials. Lastely the beyonder should at his most powerful should be at the top ( all of my knowledge is based off the Marvel rpg) i think it's a good gauge!

dude! the Beyonder is no where near the top! whoever controld the Heart is at the top.

The heart? what or who is the heart? Hey have u played or seen the Marvel rpg? The reason i ask is because Stat wise the beyonder is ontop of the list followed by Eternity, Death and the Tribunal. I Guess thats what i base my post on since the game actually offers some sort of measuring stick or base attributes! But i can understand your remarks about the beyonder since he was "de-powered" after the 1st secret wars.

fuk the RPG! The Heart of the Universe! Thanos had it and destroyed everything including Eternity, Beyonder, Living Tribunal, etc.

it goes like this:
1. Whoever Controls The Heart of the Universe
2. The One Above All
3. Living Tribunal
4. Whoever Controls The Infinity Gauntlet

You forgot ME! Since I'm a REAL person, I'm stronger than the HotU.

eer

So the heart is......an object. I thought this was dealing with actual Characters. And why would you discredit the RPG, something that has actual methods of gauging ones power. That seems the most logical way to asses powers. You don't think the writers have any say in the RPG? Stan lee himself respects and plays the RPG's. But i repesct your opinion but also try to understand mine. The Heart does sound pretty kool though!

Nope that's actually in accurate. Go to Marvels main site looking for character profiles and you can find lots of errors about a character. You really can't depend on RPG cause the infos aren't that accurate.

Mane
Crap Dodgers

fuk the RPG! The Heart of the Universe! Thanos had it and destroyed everything including Eternity, Beyonder, Living Tribunal, etc.

it goes like this:
1. Whoever Controls The Heart of the Universe
2. The One Above All
3. Living Tribunal
4. Whoever Controls The Infinity Gauntlet

The Heart of the Universe gives you TOAA's power. It's part of TOAA so how can you be above him.

It goes:
1] TOAA
2] The Heart Of The Universe
3] Beyonder (Pre-Reconned)/Living Tribunal
4] Inifinity Gauntlet
5] Death/Eternity/Inifinity/Galactus (at full power & 3rd essential of Universe)
6] Celestials

than how did Thanos wipe them all out? because he had the Heart!

here is a quote from thanos himself, about the Heart Of The Universe.....

Thanos always does what needs to be done to acquire such items though. Which is what makes him the baddest ass.

-AC

Mane

than how did Thanos wipe them all out? because he had the Heart!

...them all? Including TOAA?

according to thanos there is no one above all........ LT is the top of the line except the heart.

Then how'd he lose the Heart of the universe. Wasn't it TOAA who tricked him.

I'm still not sure that the RPG's are that innacurate. The newer ones i would say may not be .Again i'm only trying to rationalize this. A RPG aside from updates stays pretty much the same but comics have different writers quite frequently. I don't know about you all but i use the best of both worlds. Still how can the living tribunal be more powerful than Eternity and Death not saying he isn't. Then again this is the nature of comics .....nothing is as it seems.

the one above all is Stan Lee.

dude! drop the RPG! i dont care what it says its wrong. Eternity and Death are NOT stronger than Living Tribunal.

i'm not sure how the story works. he says there never was anybody like that. then later on, he says that the one above all -might- have gave him all that power, because he knew he would annihilate the universe.

he didn't lose the heart, he re-created the universe. in the issues, he says something like it was a secure empire (the nothingness) but what was it's value???

so he destroyed everything, then re-created it. i dunno why.

eternity is the embodiement of the universe ( a single universe ) and death is an extension of that. to have life you have to have death. they are one in the same..... kinda. but that is in one single universe. there are multiple eternities, infinites, and deaths, in multiple realities. LT is the watcher, over those realities. there is only one LT and he watches over every universe.

If some of you bothered to actually READ "The End" you'd know that Adam Warlock, Thanos and Mistress Death were standing there in the middle of nothingness and Thanos realised that he feels incomplete without Death. Death cannot happen if there is no life. So he re-created everything.

-AC

i did read it, and i do have it....... he also mentions there being no TOAA and then saying that whoever it might have been chose him to do this dirty work. as a trick.....

Doesn't that presuppose that this figure is only powerful due the Heart?

Either way "The End" was an amazing series. I'd read it every single day if I could but I'd be boRED.

-AC

Ok Mane you win! (bows head in shame) Your might is infinite.

i'm changing my vote from the heart of the universe, to toad as the most powerful entity ever seen in the marvel universe. it hasnt been revealed just yet, but it will be in due time......

What about War Hulk he's as powerful as King Thor?

king thor, and war hulk are nowhere near the top of the food chain so to speak.

i would also think that king thor (actually odin controling the power) is more powerful than war hulk. magic works in ways other science based powers do not.

I was wondering, what is the order of hierarchy in the marvel universe, i know TOAA is top, but where does it go from there???

there are already a few lists like that on this forum, a couple by Never. just search the forum

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=301985

hope that one helps

Cheers Paola, appreciate it alot

Just for a bit of fun.

1. Living Tribunal - this one actually doesn't count

2. Wielder of the Infinity Gauntlet

3. Eternity, Infinity, Death & Oblivion

4. Order, Chaos, Galactus, Kronos, Love, Hate, Celestials

5. Dark Phoenix, Tyrant

6. Cosmic Cube Beings, Eon, Epoch, Watchers

7. Sky Fathers, Vishanti, Mephisto, Elders of the Universe, In Betweener

8. Captain Universe Power, Starbrand

9. Heralds, Lesser Deities (Thor, Hercules), Eternals, Protectors of the Universe

Agree?

MWAHAHA!!! YOU HAD TO GET ME STARTED

this is mine. modified from its original. what do you guys think?

1. The Heart Of The Universe
2. Living Tribunal
3. Infinity Gauntlet
4. Death
5. The Infinites
6. Eternity
7. Infinity
8. Galactus (full power)
9. Oblivion
10. The Celestials
11. Franklin Richards (full power)
12. Master Order/Lord Chaos
13. Chronos
14. Love/Hate
15. Eon
16. Epoch
17. Chton
18. Dark Phoenix
18. Galactus (normal power)
19. Ego the Living Planet
20. Dark Gods/Elder Gods
21. Eternals
22. Korvak
23. Shaper of Worlds
24. Beyonder
25. Phoenix Force
25. Hyperstorm

Can anyone explain me what or who is the Heart of the Universe?

it basically gives you Tribunal's powers

DarkCrawler Can anyone explain me what or who is the Heart of the Universe?

It's basically universal power that would put you at TOAA level, leaving you above even LT's power.

Here's one I compiled some time ago:

1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe/Pre-Reconned Beyonder
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Dormammu/Shuma Gorath
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Cyttarok/Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing

sexy.

It goes without saying that the One Above All and The Living Tribunal own the top two slots as they oversee the whole multiverse hence they're the most important two in the cosmic hierarchy. Admittedly, I don't know anything about the "Heart of the Universe" but how does this give you more power than the Living Tribunal if it's just "Universe" when the Living Tribunal judges the whole Multiverse?

Needless to say, the wielder of the complete set of Infinity Gems comes just below the Living Tribunal, however I'm not talking in terms of power, I'm speaking in terms of cosmic "standing" and importance - not wanting to get into the whole LT vs Infinity Gauntlet argument here.

Right under the gems are Eternity, his "other side of the coin" Infinity, and their universal counterparts, Death and Oblivion. These four are seen "discussing" matters as equals in the pages of Quasar after the whole Maelstrom storyline hence they're equals in universal importance, though their actual powers may vary.

Some would argue that Galactus is either on equal footing with Death and Eternity or just a step below them because he determines the universal balance, I wouldn't argue with either point. Although normally his power is dwarfed by the big four just above him, his existence is nonetheless crucial to the universe. I'd put the way he addressed the cosmic beings in Infinity Gauntlet as an important point - when the LT didn't want to get involved, Eternity left, who spoke to the assemblage as the next in line to lead? This guy.

The universal scientists, the Celestials, are next in line, if not only in terms of power and numbers. And, somewhat synonymous with the Celestials now, is Franklin Richards, not because of cosmic significance but because of the power he wields. Just below the Celestials are Lord Chaos and Master Order.

Just a few quick points:

I think The Stranger, although powerful and mysterious, doesn't really hold any cosmic significance. He's "only" the collective people of Gigantus, I believe similar to the Uni Mind and when the Asgardians merged into the Destroyer Armour. Powerful, yes, Important, not so much. On the same boat is Tyrant.

The Skyfathers and higher mystic beings (Mephisto, Dormammu, Cytorrak, Vishanti) are equal, I may be wrong though

Natural universal forces are equal - Uni power, Phoenix Force, Starbrand, I may be contracticting my first list

Beings chosen by higher cosmic beings are equal - Heralds (by Galactus), Thanos (by Death), Drax (by Kronos), Protectors of the Universe

hmm...very good assesment...i really agree with u on most of that...i think a crucial part is Galactus...many people place him below the celestials...i know he is above them because in the future he eats them...its also good that you recognized Franklin on the same level as the celestials...i consider him just above them because he is supoosed to survive into the next universe and play the same role as Galactus...One more thing, i would also place the cosmic cube beings a little higher than most people placed them...i will have to think about where exactly

Krissy Von Doom

The Skyfathers and higher mystic beings (Mephisto, Dormammu, Cytorrak, Vishanti) are equal, I may be wrong though

The Vishanti is composed of Hoggoth, Oshtur, Agamotto. Agamotto in his realm stalemated Galactus. Dormammu is above Mephisto; he owns countless dimensions while Odin, Zeus, and Mephisto have only one.

Natural universal forces are equal - Uni power, Phoenix Force, Starbrand, I may be contracticting my first list

The Star Brand's power was so great that LT had to intervene; it's power is greatly above the Uni-power and Phoenix Force.

Beings chosen by higher cosmic beings are equal - Heralds (by Galactus), Thanos (by Death), Drax (by Kronos), Protectors of the Universe

Thanos shouldn't be in this category; he's near skyfather level.

The thing with mystic beings - Sky Fathers, Vishanti, Mephisto - they're only at their full strength in their own realms. Taken out of that comfort zone and set in a neutral field, their power is somewhat downgraded. I don't exactly remember how the battle between Agamotto and Galactus went but I have a slight recollection of Galactus just stopping in the middle of the fight, I don't remember why, I could be wrong though.

I admit that I don't know much about Dormammu but there's one thing I kinda remember - the Mindless Ones that dwell in his realm, Dormammu is afraid of them?

Thanks for answers, Mane and Beyonder.

Krissy Von Doom

The thing with mystic beings - Sky Fathers, Vishanti, Mephisto - they're only at their full strength in their own realms. Taken out of that comfort zone and set in a neutral field, their power is somewhat downgraded. I don't exactly remember how the battle between Agamotto and Galactus went but I have a slight recollection of Galactus just stopping in the middle of the fight, I don't remember why, I could be wrong though.

Maybe regarding Mephisto who's much weaker when he's out of his realm. But for other beings, their powers don't drop dramatically. Cyttarok is powerful in his own right, but he's near invincible in his realm. What I have a problem with is categorizing the Vishanti at skyfather level when they're clearly above.

I admit that I don't know much about Dormammu but there's one thing I kinda remember - the Mindless Ones that dwell in his realm, Dormammu is afraid of them?

The Mindless Ones were described as walking Destroyer Armors.

there should be a "GOD" in the marvel universe, like the religous one except cartoony

Check out Fantastic Four awhile back. Jack Kirby is god. 'Nuff said.

Shouldn't the Beyonder species be somewhere at the top since they actually made the cosmic cube.

How powerful can Dormammu be if he's afraid of his realm's inhabitants? In HIS realm.

you guys appear to agree with me in terms of X-Man being far more powerfull than Cable, from lookin at tha numerous lists.

in
killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=2319712#post2319712

no1 seems to think so. judging from wut seems to show that most of you have sufficient knowledge, would any1 set tha record straight in that thread? those die-hard cable fans' lack of knowledge is pissing me off.

Krissy Von Doom

How powerful can Dormammu be if he's afraid of his realm's inhabitants? In HIS realm.

...because it wasn't even his realm to begin with. He originally came from the Faltine Dimension. While exiles of the Faltine Dimension, Dormammu and Umar showed Olnar how to conquer other dimensions and add them to his own, the Dark Dimension. While annexing other dimensions, Olnar annexed a dimension, which (unknowingly) was the home of the Mindless Ones. They went on a rampage and Olnar was among the victims of these creatures. Dormammu and Umar used a portion of their powers to contain them, then also attacked Olnar's advisers and thus inherited/took over the Dark Dimension. Dormammu continued annexing other dimensions to his own there after.

http://www.marveldirectory.com/individuals/d/dormammu.htm

So, Dormammu took over the Dark Dimension but isn't actually the master of it? My point is that Odin is the skyfather of Asgard, same as Zeus with Olympus, same as Mephisto in Hell. I those three cases, each is the master of their respective realms, none of them are afraid of anyone in their respective worlds - all rules and inhabitants bend to their will. Odin is the most powerful in Asgard, Zeus is the most powerful in Olympus, Mephisto is the most powerful in Hell. How can the same be said of Dormammu? Yes, as you stated, he might have taken over the Dark Dimension and claimed it for his own but he isn't the "God" of the realm. Dormammu seems to be more like Annihilus with the Negative Zone.

You misunderstood. With Dormammu, he is lord of the Dark Dimensions; it's his now. However, the Mindless Ones are still power creatures to be wary of. He might be powerful but that doesn't mean the Mindless Ones are any less dangerous.

Odin rules Asgard but beings like Surtur and Ymir can still pose a threat to his kingdom. Other examples would be Mangog and the Frost Giants. Though Odin rules his rule and is top god, others can still invade and pose a threat to him. Being all powerful in your own realm not neccessarily mean you aren't afraid of invaders. Though the Mindless One's realm was added to the Dark Dimension, it still doesn't mean Dormammu has complete control over these foreign beasts.

Mephisto is all powerful in his realm, yet Dr. Doom and Strange beat/tricked him; Galactus absorbed Mephisto realm and ended their stalemate. Silver Surfer and Adam Warlock have given Mephisto trouble in his domain before as well. IMO, Mephisto is all powerfuol in his realm, however, other beings can still pose a threat/beat him.

Dormammu conquers realms and annex them to his own. He gains his powers from his worshippers. Dr. Strange fears Dormammu more than he does Mephisto. Mephisto isn't in Dormammu's league and that's why Dr. Strange worries more about Dormammu breaking through the dimensional barriers. Mephisto goes back and forth from his realm to Earth and you don't see the Soccerer Supreme giving much of a damn do you?

If the Mindless Ones were in Asgard, Olympus, or Mephisto's realm, the rulers would piss in their pants as well and worry. Hulk can't even damage these creatures; Dr. Strange usually teleports them back to where they can from rather than foolish try to destroy them.

It's a little deceiving using Galactus vs Mephisto, Galactus could absorb the energies of most realms as he's the third being of the Universal triumverate. As for Strange not bothering with Mephisto when he visits earth, that's because Mephisto's power isn't as great on Earth. Yes he's been tricked by Strange and Doom but that's not to say they beat him, he banished them, from what I remember.

I wouldn't call it Dormammu "conquering" the Mindless Ones' realm, if he really conquered it he would have been able to subjugate the Mindless Ones to his will. There's a difference to conquering something and just claiming it for yourself.

The Frost Giants, Surtur, etc DO pose a threat to Asgard but whenever they've threatened the realm, Odin has been able to put them in their place, not by containing them but by beating them in a fight. Should Dormammu actually fight the Mindless Ones, who would prevail?

The Mindless Ones WOULD make havok in Asgard or Olympus or wherever but that's not the point (Galactus, his heralds, the Kree, Tyrant, any substantially large invasion force can do do the same) - the point is because the Mindless Ones are natural inhabitants of the Dark Dimension and Dormammu is actually scared of them, it means he's not the master of that dimension.

Dormammu can add however many dimensions to his Dark Dimension, if he's not master of each individual realm, then how powerful is he?

Krissy Von Doom

It's a little deceiving using Galactus vs Mephisto, Galactus could absorb the energies of most realms as he's the third being of the Universal triumverate. As for Strange not bothering with Mephisto when he visits earth, that's because Mephisto's power isn't as great on Earth. Yes he's been tricked by Strange and Doom but that's not to say they beat him, he banished them, from what I remember.

How about when Silver Surfer or Warlock coming into his realm and beating him, answer me that.


I wouldn't call it Dormammu "conquering" the Mindless Ones' realm, if he really conquered it he would have been able to subjugate the Mindless Ones to his will. There's a difference to conquering something and just claiming it for yourself.

He annexed the dimension, but the Mindless Ones' powers don't come from the dimension. Just cause someone has conquered a realm, it doesn't mean he has complete control over those he conquered. He also contains them, rather then displacing them in another dimension, because he uses them and have used them in the past against enemies like Dr. Strange. And they're mindless creatures, you can't expect that they'll follow orders - magic needs to be used.


The Frost Giants, Surtur, etc DO pose a threat to Asgard but whenever they've threatened the realm, Odin has been able to put them in their place, not by containing them but by beating them in a fight. Should Dormammu actually fight the Mindless Ones, who would prevail?

By himself? Or with help from his sons and warriors? If Asgard for the sake of argument annexed Surtur's Muspelheim or Ymir's Niffleheim, you think Odin himself would not fear Surtur, Ymir, or the Frost Giants. Hell, he'd try either to kick them out or contain them in some way cause he wouldn't have control over any of them even though it's HIS realm.


The Mindless Ones WOULD make havok in Asgard or Olympus or wherever but that's not the point (Galactus, his heralds, the Kree, Tyrant, any substantially large invasion force can do do the same) - the point is because the Mindless Ones are natural inhabitants of the Dark Dimension and Dormammu is actually scared of them, it means he's not the master of that dimension.

They're not natural inhabitants. Though their realm is part of the Dark Dimension, that still holds nothing over the creatures. Again, Dormammu contained them in a sector of the Dark Dimensions; he could've removed them from the Dark Dimensions all together, but he uses them as soldiers (unwilling soldiers controlled through magic). And these creatures are an entire race, not just a few MONSTERS. He fears them because they are capable of wrecking the entire realm if he's not too careful.

Dormammu can add however many dimensions to his Dark Dimension, if he's not master of each individual realm, then how powerful is he?

He is the master of his realm. He may fear the Mindless Ones, but they're also his unwilling subjects. And you underestimate the Mindless Ones, we're taking about an entire race of creatures; each one capable of killing Hulk, Thor, Gladiator, or Beta Ray Bill in a fight. Again, if Mephisto or Odin had annexed them in their realm, they too would fear these inhabitants. How powerful? Dormammu's one the most power mystical beings ever. Neither Odin, Zeus, or Mephisto have that title. Even out of his realm, Dormammu is still powerful. Why else would Strange fear his presence on Earth?

Mephisto deals with souls. Who can defeat an individual who has complete mastery over the soul gem? And this same individual, without the soul gem no less, was chosen by Order and Chaos over Galactus to lead them into battle. Geez. The Surfer is irrelevant in this battle.

Actually, I'm not underestimating the Mindless Ones. These creatures would wreak havoc in any dimension, realm or planet. For argument's sake, lets say the Mindless Ones had to be destroyed, would Dormammu, together with any family or warriors he can muster, be able to defeat or destroy them (not just contain)? I wouldn't say that Odin is as concerned about Surtur as Dormammu is about the Mindless Ones. The only reason Odin worries about Surtur is because the flame sword wielded by Surtur is destined to destroy Asgard, that's it. He knows he'll be killed by Fenrir on Ragnarok so he's not much worried about being killed by anyone else.

Now, if Odin tried to conquer Muspell, would he succeed? Hard to say because Surtur plays a major role in Ragnarok. If I said Odin can just kill Surtur that'd be dumb because he's not destined to do so. For argument's sake, I will say Odin can succeed is conquering Muspell and defeating Surtur in battle, if he chose to. Because it's happened in comics? No. Because of Ragnarok. "The Doom of the Gods" (always mistranslated as "Twilight of the Gods" has the Aesir battling the southern giants led by Surtur AND The gigantic Fenrir Wolf AND The Midgard Serpent AND Loki commanding the hordes of the dead AND the Naglfar battleship commanded by the giant Hymir. After that battle, some of the gods still survived. Now, let's take out the Midgard serpent, Fenrir, Loki's forces and Hymir's giants, leaving Surtur alone with his giants...how would that battle go? A bit one sided I'd say. And Ragnarok occurs on a neutral battlefield, not Asgard.

For the moment, I'll go with your argument and say that just because someone has conquered a realm doesn't mean he has complete control of the inhabitants. But, say the conquered population had to be destroyed, would you say the conqueror SHOULD have the power or forces to do so? Now does Dormammu have this power against the Mindless Ones?

YES! But:
Not sure why Warlock is relevant but Surfer is not.

Black Panther also conjured Mephisto forth and trapped his sorry butt. Strange also conjured him binded and blindfolded just so that Dare Devil and Strange can question him.

As for Krissy, so cause he might not have the power to destroy them, that means Mephisto is stronger then him? I don't think he's ever tried but then again never has anyone or even Strange destroyed a Mindless One.

I meant Warlock with the soul gem is a match for Mephisto, there's no point in throwing Surfer into the mix to help Warlock because Warlock alone can deal with Mephisto.

As I already mentioned, Mephisto is radically depowered when he's summoned to Earth hence when he can be bound by a number of magical means.

As for Dr Strange or Mephisto being able to destroy a Mindless One, you've completely missed my point. Dormammu SHOULD be able to destroy a Mindless One because you claim he's the master of their dimension. Would a demon from Mephisto's hell be able to overpower the Lord of Lies? No, Mephisto is master of that dimension because he controls everything in hell. Does that mean he can beat any invading force? No. A suffifiently powerful invasion force or individual power can still beat Mephisto in hell, but a natural inhabitant of hell can't beat Mephisto. However, can a natural denizen of the Dark Dimension (ie. the Mindless Ones) beat Dormammu? From the way he fears them, I'd say yes.

Wasn't refering to Warlock & SS, only SS. He kicked Mephisto's ass.

He SHOULD? You mean like how Mephisto was only able to defeat Zarathos and imprison him, instead of killing him? You really think Mephisto would be able to kill the Mindless Ones if they were annexed into his dimension?

Again the point is Odin can defeat any natural inhabitant of Asgard, Zeus similarly in Olympus, Mephisto in Hell...

It's not about cross dimensional battles...can Zeus beat Surtur? can Zarathos beat Mentor? can Mephisto beat a Mindless One? It's can Dormammu beat a natural inhabitant of a dimension he's supposed to be the master of?

Mephisto's smart enough or has no purpose in annexing a dimension filled with the Mindless Ones.

Of course, I could mention the way Firelord put the beatdown on Dormammu in Guardians of the Galaxy....."Aaargh!! Stellar Fire!!!" But that's not the point here.

So you're basically saying that IF the Mindless Ones were part of Mephisto or Odin's realm, they'd be able to destroy these creatures? Yeah riiiight, that'll be when a baboon's writting the story will that ever happen. Neither Mephisto or Odin's going to destroy any of these creatures.

As for Firelord beating Dormammu, what are you refering to exactly? Firelord isn't even in Dormammu's league; him beating Dormammu is either do to plot device or an error on the writters part.

No matter how you put it, Mephisto is still weaker than Dormammu. Silver Surfer beat his ass.

Odin, Zeus, Mephisto or whoever has no purpose in trying to destroy the Mindless Ones because they're not living in and are not an immediate threat to their respective realms. However, they are living in the Dark Dimension, where Dormammu is supposed to be the master yet he fears them and cannot destroy them. Now, if any of the skyfathers annexed, as you put it, the Mindless Ones dimension into their own I've no doubt that they'd have an extremely difficult time in dealing with these living destroyer armors but that's a moot point because they wouldn't even try to conquer a place with near unbeatable inhabitants. Dormammu may have claimed that dimensions for his own but he is not the master of it.

Guardians of the Galaxy. No matter the reason, Firelord burning Dormammu is in print which makes it a legitimate point. Else I could just similarly claim that Surfer beating Mephisto is an error on the writer's part.

The original list I poster isn't a "Power" list, it's a ranking on how important each being is hence all the Skyfathers are on the same level even though each individual's power vary. Eternity/Infinity/Death/Oblivion are on the same level because each is as important as the other though their personal power may vary somewhat. Same reason for the heralds being on the same level. Strictly on a power level, Odin and Zeus would overpower Mephisto yet I would qualify the devil on equal importance as the skyfathers because he's sat on the council of skyfathers representing the dark gods and spoke as an equal.

Living tribunal is a complete waste of power cuz he doesn't care if thanos destroyes half tha universe because "change is good!".

Thanos sucks for wuts mentioned above.

i think tha higher u get on tha hierarchy, tha dumber u get.

welll i duno wat u dudes have been postin here fer the last 7 pages but here is my list of ther hierchy
1. the one above all
2. true beyonders
3. infinte being
4. living tribunal
5. the infinites/entropy{cant figure out who}
6. posessor of the heart of the universe
7. wielder of the infinite gauntlet
8. eternity/death/epiphany/abraxas{ithink thats his name}
9. master order and lord chaos

ok im not sure about the wrest but ill try my best

pheonix force{since its the embodiement of all life unborn}
a great cosmic cube{e.g. fake beyonder, shaper of world}
super ego
galactus at full power/ego/kubic
thanos at full power/tyrant
celestials
franklin richard at full power/nate grey at full power
onslaught
mephisto, in his realm

ok i really dont know where to put the elders of the universe in this list as a whole


alright enough of this, neway i still maintain that the true forces that control the marvel universe are desire, purpose and fate{note that none of them have been even abstractly described in marvel ever}. im not gonna explain y this is cause ive done that too many times and am sick n tired of answering mail n tryin to explain,. atleast i think that my higher portion of the most powerful biengs is right.

thats completely wrong

1. The Heart Of The Universe
2. Living Tribunal
3. Infinity Gauntlet
4. Death
5. The Infinites
6. Eternity/Infinity/Galactus (full power)
7. Oblivion
8. The Celestials
9. Franklin Richards (full power)
10. Master Order/Lord Chaos
11. Chronos
12. X-Man (full power)/Onslaught (full power)
13. Love/Hate
14. Eon
15. Epoch
16. Chton
17. Stranger/In-Betweener/Oshtur/Agamotto/Hoggoth/Galactus (normal power)/Dark Phoenix
18. Ego the Living Planet
19. Dark Gods/Elder Gods
20. Eternals
21. Korvak
22. Shaper of Worlds
23. Beyonder
24. Phoenix Force
25. Hyperstorm

^^ that one is more accurate

thats completely wrong

1. TOAA
2. The Heart Of The Universe/Pre-Reconned Beyonder
3. Living Tribunal
4. The Infinity Gauntlet
5. Death/Eternity/Infinity/Full Potential Galactus (as Third Essential Of Universe)
6. Oblivion
7. Celestials/Franklin Richards (full potential)
8. Master Order/Lord Chaos
9. Chronos
10. Love/Hate
11. Galactus (normal)/Stranger/Eon/Hoggoth/Oshtur/Agamotto/In-Betweener
12. Molecule Man
13. Shaper of Worlds/Beyonder/Kubik
14. Phoenix Force
15. Shuma Gorath/Dormammu
16. Demogorge The God Eater (Atum the Sun after consuming elder god)
17. Chthon/Set/Atum (the Sun God)/Demiurge/Gaea
18. Tyrant
19. Cyttarok/Surtur/Ymir/Odin/Zeus/Zuras/All Skyfathers/Destroyer Armor/Shaman X-Man
20. Mephisto
21. King Thor/Thanos
22. Captain Universe/Mangog/Kurse
23. Silver Surfer/Morg/Thor/Gladiator/X-Man (normal)/Genis-Vell/Loki/Beta Ray Bill/Terrax/Black Heart/Ronan The Executioner
24. Super Skrull/Annahilus/Blaastar/Black Bolt/Fire Lord/Enchantress
25. Magneto/Apocalypse/Exodus/Holocaust/Ultron/Nimrod/Mandarin
26. Juggernaut/Hulk
27. Dr.Doom/Iron Man/Wonder Man/Namor/Thing

^^ one is more accurate

Nate Grey should be higher should he not? and how come in "nate vs thor", thor was said to be tha winner? when in all 3 of your lists, hes higher? i know this is "off topic" but man one would hope tha truth was spoken from more than a fan.

What about Thor as he is at the moment in Thorissassembled? He should be higher than in the above list

dudes u r so wrong about ur power listings, oh so wrong, i did write all the reasons y my upper list was a lot better than yours but i got disconnected and couldnt get the message through and since it was around three pages of work, im feelin pissed and will write later.

Sorry but i think Beyonders is the better of the Three lists.

Thanks Magee.

hey beyonder i think that is a good list...kinda arguable in the bottom three slots...but there's no avoiding that...no one has mentioned the race of beyonders who provide the universe with the cosmic cubes...i would place them pretty high up there

Regarding the True Beyonders, it's hard to take them into account, unlike everyone else who have made an appearance and demonstrated their powers. It's really hard to gauge where they're at if it's just hearsay. As for TOAA's case, LT acknowledge his power & so did every other major cosmic beings. Also, "The End" confirmed TOAA's power since Thanos with THOTU did beat everyone including LT.

yea i would place TOAA above the beyonders...but that might be it

i think people should quit saying "pre retconned beyonder" because he doesnt exist. his old feats were exactly that........ ret conned out of existence.

i only wanted to comment on this part out of the entire post. asgard was pulped by 2 beings....... Mangog and thanos. mangog did all the work (including thor) while thanos hypnotized odin. rather odd if you ask me, but still cool to see it.

yea but dont confuse the beyonder with the Beyonders whom I was talking about....they are certainly very near the top

...like we shouldn't mention Pre-Crisis Superman?

well, precrisis superman actually existed. he wasnt retconned out of never doing what he did.

beyonder is different. his old feats arent actually feats anymore, they were mere illusions. he is nowhere near as powerful as he once was. just like when he humbled the entire race of celestials on thier home world. obviously he isnt that powerful, cause his power is "as nothing" to a single celestial.


so i say again, stop mentioning pre retconned beyonder, he doesnt exist.

even though i dont really agree with the other two list, ill still say that the preretconed beyonder showed us what an individual of the real beyonder race was capable of so the true beyonders{u should stop sayin preretconned beyonder n start with true beyonder}should be very high on the list

neway, if u really pay attention, ull se that my list is a lot better that the other 2 list {ofcourse i dont have nething against the guys who made those lists but im right cause ive done way too much research on this, but i do admit that i shudv given the heart of the universe a higher place than LT}