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I think it was a horrible decision. Look at what the Islamo-fascists are trying to get away with now.

"(CNN) -- Australia and Italy received warnings Saturday through a statement purportedly from militants linked to al Qaeda that demanded those countries withdraw troops from Iraq.

The message was posted on an Islamist Web site and was signed by a group identifying itself as Islamic Unification (Islamic Tawhid), an al Qaeda-linked organization in Europe.

To Italy, which has about 2,700 troops in Iraq, the militants warned "you will have columns of car bombs shaking your cities," if the government maintains its military presence in Iraq.

The warning also addressed the Australian government, which has about 880 military personnel and another 120 security forces in Iraq.

"We ask you to leave Iraq," the message said. "If not, we will turn your homeland into a bloodbath. ... We will shake the ground under your feet as we did in Indonesia, and the car bombs will not stop coming, God willing.

"Your fate will be like the Americans if you don't answer our demands. We will turn your day and night into hell.

"We can harm your interests in Islamic and Arab countries. Follow the path of the Philippines and Spain. This is the path that will give you security."

Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer on Sunday said Canberra was taking the threat seriously, but would not be backing down.

"What it (the threat) does is, it reminds us we have to be absolutely determined in the face of the threats of terrorists to make sure we don't give in to those threats," Downer told Nine Network television.

Downer said the Spanish troop withdrawal and the Philippines decision to pull out troops to save the life of a Filipino hostage had encouraged terrorists to continue threats.

"It is very important we send a strong message that we will not be threatened by terrorist groups. Terrorist groups will not determine the policy of the Australian government or the Australian people," he said.

Spain pulled its 1,300 troops from Iraq last month. Al Qaeda claimed responsibility for the deadly terror attacks on commuter trains in Madrid that killed 190 people and wounded 2,000 in March.

Election analysts say the bombings and the government's subsequent reaction were factors in the election, but there is debate over how big a role they played in the outcome.

Some say the terrorists won by persuading Spain to vote out Prime Minister Jose Maria Aznar, a key U.S. ally in the Iraq war, though others say Aznar's insistence on blaming Basque separatists, not Islamist terrorists, tipped the electorate against him.

The Philippines withdrew its 51 humanitarian troops a month early to secure the release of a Filipino hostage in Iraq.

There has been a wave of abductions of foreigners by insurgents in Iraq.

Earlier Saturday, gunmen seized the chief of a state-owned construction company.

Meanwhile, negotiators worked doggedly to free a senior Egyptian diplomat and seven foreign truck drivers abducted by insurgents."

Keep in mind that these threats are not from the Iraqi citizenry(who we are there to protect), but from a faction of terrorists(the reason the citizens need protection). Sounds like the Aussies will do the right thing.

Mistake... they only made a door open for more to be taken .... and showing that there methods work and are acceptable.....

i seriously think that this has p!ssed and appeased the wrong people. the withdrawal of the philippine humanitarian contigency was going to happen anyway (in a gradual manner). now, the filipino government tried to kill two birds with one stone. i think that one life is one too many, no matter the cost. but with the declaration of the pull out because of the abduction is a wrong, WRONG decision. the allies are p!ssed, these terrorists are running amok, and the government looks weak. the fate of the one should never determine the fate of the many.

fact is people get abducted everyday. people die everyday. and it's not like these workers do not know the dangers. they have been warned, much like nick berg. this is what they chose. and its not like 50 people are gonna make matters that much better anyway, but under these circumstances, the philippine government should've not said they were gonna pull out because of this one guy. pull them out because we want our countrymen home, not fighting a war by some guy who started it for all the wrong reasons.

and yes i am filipino, pure blooded.

Thanks for posting Burly. I was curious to see what Filipinos thought of the decision.

it's all good... but i can only speak for myself. and it bugged the sh!t outta me. it was front page here in the OC. and i was like "oh, f*ck no, she (the president) didn't!!!"

I think Dubya should send his two daughters to Iraq to help fill some of the empty spaces left by the Filipinos.

Thats why we have a volunteer army

Why would you say that Tex? Seriously, do you hate Bush so bad you want his kids to die or get raped? Whats up with the mods around here lately?

This is a serious topic to me, and its got nothing to do with Bush. I think the Philippine President made a horrible decision that the free world will be paying for. Look at the article in the first post, theyve already gotten more confident.

of course they should withdraw, they shouldn't be there in the first place

the US created the mess, they should clear it up themselves too
as simple as it gets; not defying the UN and then asking them to help rebuilding it later on cause they can't

Well said Yerssot!!

Creechuur>Yes, If he believes in he cause so bad, he should have to send his children over there to die, with other peoples children.
If a politician wants to go to war, they should believe in the cause so much that they would send their kids to go fight for it.

Like Yerss said, WE screwed Iraq up, and Bullied other countries into going to war with us. We should have to fix it.

Ever notice how all the countries that are lending us aid, depend of the US to keep their economy stable?? We made an example out of France, They were wise and didn't go to war, now we practicly have and embargo on them. The US is a big bully.

We have a volunteer army. No one sends their kids to war, the kid has to make a conscious decision to join the US armed forces.

We're not at war with Iraq, you people listen to mass media too much. We're trying to free the citizens of Iraq from ruthless dictators and Muslim terrorists. We made mistakes in the past and got in bed with a potential enemy to fight a common enemy, but we did not tell Saddam's regime that it was ok to fill over 250 mass graves with over 300,000 innocent people.

You say we're the Big Bully, I say we're the Big Dog.

Wait wait wait.
I listen to the mas media too much???

"We're trying to free the citizens of Iraq from ruthless dictators and Muslim terrorists. We made mistakes in the past and got in bed with a potential enemy to fight a common enemy, but we did not tell Saddam's regime that it was ok to fill over 250 mass graves with over 300,000 innocent people."
Uhh what the hell is that if not the crap the Mass media is shoving down our throats?
Let me spell it out for you.
We----Don't----Give----A---Crap----About-----The----Iraqi----People.
sorry if that comes as a shock.
We want control of their oil supply. Thats it. We don't wanna have to deal with the probelms that would occur for the US if Iraq controled its own oil.
See, The Iraqi government, along with Iran I believe, used to sell oil in US dollars. But they were going to change to their own currency. Now we didn't like that, because we didn't wanna deal with the constant fluxuations of the exchange rate. So what we did, was pick the weakest country, and come up with a bogus excuse to invade them, and make and example out of them so the other big oil countrys would keep trading oil in dollars.

g. bush had the chance to oust saddam during the first gulf war, but what did he do? he passed on the opporunity. now hi sosn feels somehow he is obliged to do what his daddy couldn't. tptmanno is right... the US doen't give a rat's a$$ for the liberation of iraq.

they didn't do that in the first war cause it would be too expensive... makes you think why his lil son did it huh

and I whole heartly agree
thinking the US liberated Iraq is quite wrong to put it mildly... who failed the claim to get liberated?
the US assumed they wanted this and assumed they had the power to invade a country (which they were NOT at war at!) and bring down the regime
did they had the power to arrest Saddam? no! because they weren't the policeforce of Iraq nor citizens of the country

its loooooooppyyyyy, loooooooooooopyyyyy!!!!

this so called liberation has cost the US so much money. it has dug the US in so much debt, in which bill worked so hard to at least have a little stability.

i have seen these on car stickers... funny...

"some village in texas is missing their idiot"

"anyone who can be rendered unconcious by a soft pretzel does not deserve to be leader of the free world"

"no one died when clinton lied"

this last one seems fitting...

"how many lives per gallon?"

I've seen some of those!

If we wanted to control the oil supply it would have been way easier to deal with Saddam!!!!... do you even realize this isn't the first time we have liberated countries before? .... Cuba for example... Nicaragua?.... The reason we didn't invade Iraq in the first was because we were too afraid to lose UN support... the UN are a bunch of pawns.

maybe you three should look in the mirror for stupidity... or open a text book and learn about the things you criticize and taunt.

It not the US problem, you forget this is the worlds aiglment... if you want to live in a buble and relive WW1 and WW2 go ahead and kep living in your fantasy world.

Cuba and Nicaragua?
You mena the Bay of Pigs in Cuba? Cuz that really didn't help anybody. Just got a whole bunch of Us marines slaughtered.

Nicaragua. Yea that was effective. Ever wonder why people hate Regan? Well thats why.

Yes I realize this is not the first time we've "liberated" a country. Its not the fist time we've ****ed up a country as well. We've done that countless time on preserving "Democracy."

I don't wanna relive WW2. But the way were are heading, thats whats gonna happen, with the US as the Nazi's

No i mean the Spanish American war know about that? we freed a lot of countries from tyranny.

Nicaragua was during the first Bush's term and we kicked Noriaga's a$$ and freed those people.

Ask Japan and Germany how bad we screwed up thier countries.

WW3 will be the free world against the countries we call third world because they all think we don't give a damn because of people who think like you.

Accually we were better to Japan and Germany after WW2 than WW1.

Umm, Spanish American war? where we attacked areas rightfully clamed by Spain in the name of manifest destiny?? There ws no liberation there. we wanted their land. Pure and simple. We kicked the "oppresed" people out and sent them down to Mexico.

I care about third world countries. But I am saying 2 things.
A)helping them, does not mean invading them
B) what we are doing in Iraq is not liberation, its manipulation.

Nicaragua. Free those people?? That one of the most violent places besides Argentina, (new coup every day there)(Who we also "helped". for governmental stability.
Don't question me on that. I know people who fled that country because of that.

I'm a third Spainiard and i don't like the idea but England had ruled us forever and those countries deserved a chance at freedom to from Monarchy.... some had territorial intentions but the vast majority of all the americans fought for the freedom of those people...

All of South America is violent and in constant turmoil due to the drug trade.... and until that un winable war is over it will still be.

Sometimes violence and invasion is the only way when the tyranny of the majority is the problem...

How is it manipulation... if the UN saw it as so horific and how you seem to see it they would create a co-alition to oust us

Because as the US we are basicly untouchable.
Our economic defences are so stron

The US is not invincible our army is barely 250,000 battle ready and are economy is dependant on all the other world economies... we would be crushed.

are you proud of that fact? because countless innocent live were and still are suffering the effects of the nukes we dropped on japan. i agree that they had it coming, but nuking people?

and this "free world" you speak of is not really free. do you know who pays for every shell that is fired in a war? that's right, tax payer money. and these third world counties, they may not know it, but they are the rising power. the US could easily be torn to shreds by the red army.

Omg you are gonna go about crying about nukes? stay on subject... tell me the alternative to stopping Japan? and what about all the people who died from Churnobol? entire city uninhabitable and countless people infected from its fallout still.

Its a free world as in your a$$ isn't in shackles working in fields under a wip. Red army would have wiped the floor with the US in open conflict and i know for a fact we would lose against the might of the powers of unseen strength in all those impoverished countries. and i never called a country third world i said "we call" as in sarcasim, i believe that every country has its time of greatness.

I had a longer responce but my computer burped and i just got a piece. posted

alternative to stopping japan? how about better military intelligence and strategy? a whole fleet of carriers were missing fromt the pacific and nobody knew that japan was up to something? well that's beside the point... let's stay on topic.

and to point out to, the "free" in your previous post had a plethora of meanings. i just took the literal one.

Better intelliegence!!! you tell in me you say its our own fult that we trusted a nation not to attack us and try and take over the world? we were only fighting the two most powerful armies at once and tricked the largest contingent of spies into submission.

don't take the literal in a philisohical arguement.

yes, it is. come on, man, don't be so naive. big brother always knows what's going on. that's why he's big brother. and to think that a country that collaborated with the nazis had no desire to take over another country and dominate the world is.... dumb.

No one knew they were going to fight us... if you knew anything about WW2 it was about underestimating the capablities of Japan... plus we were cutting ourselves of from the rest of the world.

Hmm maybe its because we were a TAD too busy with domestic issues?

since when was WW2 about underestimating the capabilities of japan? i remember that WW2 was about this hitler guy trying to kill everybody outside the "master race" that he claims to be. and the US were cutting themselves from the world? of course! who wants to go to war?

and no one knew that they were gonna attack us? unusual sightings were reported to the military and claims that they have sunk a submarine just off the coast. and this sinking was regarded and dealt with routinely. there were also planes that were out of place and were merely dissmissed. i guess nobody wanted to know...

Our part in WW2 ... no one ever wants to go to war unless they have to and in WW2 we had to... no way out.

Omg that was like hours before the attack? what does that have to with the fact that Japan attacked us no matter what we did because it was thier choice.

the attack on pearl harbor was known before, but it was in DC. the government knew, but since the attack happened, the message was delayed. especially since it was sent by telegraph because atmospheric conditions negated the use of military radio.

yes, it was their choice to attack us, much like it was our choice to let everybody else go to war. but the fact these sightings were announced in such close proximity within pearl, it should have rung a bell... especially when the whole world was alredy at war.

this is totally off topic and solves nothing.... conspiracy hour can be discused later ... they attacked us. we didn't know until it was too late even if we detected them in flight... we fought them they retreated they didn't surrender and we bombed them and the wars long over... now is now... we must not make the same mistakes.

i was just thinking about how we totally destroyed these thread but anyways, i enjoyed our exchange. and you are correct, now is now and we musn't make the same mistakes... too bad we voted another bush into power

I doubt Gore would have been better

Mods, please close this thread. The haters have taken it wayyyy off-topic and no ones voting.

Nice job Raven, sorry I wasn't around for support.

no prob

I think this is over the line

but just to asnwer the question

the philippines have everyright to withdraw their troops if they think it is best. and wiv the critical situation in the philippines I think it was the best thing to do

if this classifies as bashing or trolling can I please respond to it with one last bash cause I wasn't here yesterday ?

I guess we should keep the oil and not give the rest of the world a single drop. Actually we would share it with the British. So screw the rest of world.

sucks man...

it wasn't shared before and we pulled it off ok

I hope u know this post is stupid

shot away dude... but i do believe you were bashing the US and our president with fact you have no idea about, so it gave me every right to respond to you. People die for this country and you spit on it out of spite and hatred.



heck if they all assume we are there for the oil already i say we capture it and then really show the world what "nazis" we are.

That's cheating! Not fair!

sorry but Ive been travelling a lot and almost everybody says that americans r in Iraq only for the oil, I am NOT saying if I agree or not but thats most ppl opinion

the president of the PI made a big mistake by giving in to their demands...it was career suicide on her part...but i have to quote a famous intellect: the needs of the many, outweigh the needs of the one...

i cannot see any benefit that this may have for the PI, other than reluctance from it's allies in financial and economical aid...she's a hero now...but what happens when the reelection comes again...will they remember her for saving one life...or will her opponents use that to show her weakness in not thinking about the country as a whole?

the Philippines is not exactly the jewel of south east asia, and they never will be as long as they have weak leaders...and btw just for those wondering, i am filipino

not by a long shot... I gave my opinion about it, it would be bashing if Bush was a member here which he isn't, don't let your patriotism get in the way of a clear judgement between what is what...

furthermore, if you had any knowledge about me, you would note that I do not spit on any country out of spite and hatred... though some idiots are trying there best to make their country look like a hellhole

Then we are clear then to keep this disscusion on the facts and use our knowledge to make it logical, therefore avoiding petty bashing and insult.

sorry, but read the thread again, you pretty much started it with that comment

so, as said ... they did a good job, they had no bussiness there in the first place

no you three started with your little hate circle on the first page and boosted it with your excchange of bumper sticker ideas

if you don't like negative critisism on your country, I suggest you don't visit this thread anymore

(and I thought freedom of speech was so important in the states )

Yes freedom of speech is welcome if you have a actually arguement backed by facts and ideas... but bashing just because its easy isn't right .

I backed it up... they did it, they clean it

ok then i responded with my facts and its over

Creechur, I think the poll is a little limited.

American ppl r losers!!






































j/k the end of that scentence was american pl r very patroist,
sometimes i talk about bush (my opinions) and they quickly get mad, NOT saying is a bad thing and nor saying either is a good thing just a opinion of mine

this was actually once a serious thread

It was becoming seriously political.

wwell foriegn relations is a political subject

True, but it was getting outta hand. Politics is too controversial. Sometimes is not easy to determine who is right and who isn't......heck maybe both sides maynot be right!

they all lose in the end...

which side am I?? cry

the side you do not wish to be one

in almost any war there is no right or wrong

so I am against both sides??? cry

no...you are against yourself

there is ONE thing right:



sniper WAR AGAINST THE WHOLE WORLD

what do u mean?

they are usually both right as you point out but each choice has consequences

Did you visit the war college in the philosphy forum

i cannot tell you what you already know, for i myself do not know

hehehe.....I saw it and I'm saving some arguments for it! I'll be there soon.

yeah, sorry about that...

Well, since the threads not closed, I might as well give an update:

The day after the Philippines pulled their troops out of Iraq, 6 more people were abducted. Thank you Philippine President for strengthening terrorist resolve...chump.

Australia will not pull their 850 troops out, because they apparently have a backbone.

Thats it for the update, you can go back to your bashing and bitching now.

well creechuur if u think this thread should b closed dont bother to come, and please name the "haters"

did you read the posts frodo? you can find them yourself

"well creechuur if u think this thread should b closed dont bother to come, and please name the "haters""

I made the thread you retard, so I'll come and go as I choose.

I don't need to name the haters, its pretty apparent whos taking this thread seriously and who isn't.

Funny that you say I'm in the wrong thread in the Clovie forum, but your hypocritical a$$ has no problem posting lame crap like "American ppl r losers!!" in this one. What the Philippines did can and most likely will cost many innocent lives. I think thats a bit more serious than a KMC member being banned (no matter how popular she was), which is why I made the flippant posts. At least my posts were ontopic.

i feel like i should say something since i've been branded a hater...

the US is a great coutry, it really is. it is my adopted home i want it safe as much as the next american. i don't have a problem with americans (unless they're racists and wish to skin me alive). what i DO have a problem woth is the decisions our president is making. although it may appear as if we're not being affected by it directly, we are being affected indirectly.

and as much as i hate to admit, i agree with creechur a 100%. there is no way the life of one man justify the death of one, much less a hundred or even thousands. the pull out of the philippine humanitarian contingency was for all the wrong reasons and we are already finding out why...

^that is a very noble admission and i respect you for that

I actually wasn't talking about you at all Manchi. Sure you went a bit off-topic, but youve also made some very thoughtful posts.

The name change confused me for a sec though, hehe. Good thing you left your sig or I would have had no idea who you are!

Raven>> thank you... i do try

creechur>> yeah, i just changed it a couple of hours ago. i started making a new sig. good thing i didn't upload it yet

ps.

"a bit off-topic"... you are too kind

always a nice way to end conflict on good terms

isn't it? the world would be such a better place if people just learn to interact accordingly...