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Here in the state of North Carolina (USA) , it is illegal for a man and woman to leave together without being married . There or 2 local cases where the women in this position have been made an example out of .

One woman is under government assistance and has been told by our state to marry her boyfriend or move out and if she does not she looses her assistance .

The other lady is a local police dispatcher and has lived with her boyfriend for 12 years . Now all of a sudden she is told marry him , move out or loose your job . this is a job she has had for 11 years . Her employers knew about her boyfriend and never had a problem with it before .

This is a law that is from the 1800's and is now being enforced in this day and age .

In this modern day and age that we live in , is it fair are government , any countries government , to force you to live in a way that they deem as moral or immoral ?????

Unless you are God, you shouldn't play God. So therefore I don't think any human being has the right to decide what is moral or immoral.

If we can't decide what is moral or immoral, who will? God? Times have changed, and what was written over 2000 years ago hardly hold up in today's world.

Deciding what is right and wrong is NOT playing God, it's simply a sense of instinct in us from when we are born, and the way our parents raise us.

Besides, we have the right to do whatever we want, your God gave you FREE WILL for a reason. We don't have to be drones.

Different people have different views, so who is to decide how the world as a community should live, what gives anyone this right?

Just because they are in government does not mean anything.

I wasn't referring to government, you said "any human being" and that's what I addressed.

I dislike government as much as the next stubborn man, but it is necessary. I'd hate to live in a purely chaotic world, where you do not know if you will be alive to wake up the next morning.

Can you explain how that ties in with your "we have the right to do whatever we want" statement from 20 mins earlier?

It's not just CA - from what i understand America has made unmarried cohabitation a criminal offense in around 8 states.

God bless the land of the free.

"In this modern day and age that we live in , is it fair are government , any countries government , to force you to live in a way that they deem as moral or immoral ?????"

In a word, no. But since when have governments ever been about what's fair?

I can see America's slogans in the future. "The land of freedom where you are free to live as we want you to."

**** that.

-AC

Call the cops and tell them that there's a lawbreaker named Cory in Mooresville, NC. I ain't hard to find. Not like they actually enforce this law, so why even worry about it.

Living together, unwed, in God's eyes is a sin, granted. I plan on rectifying that soon, as well as leave the state, anyway.

"Living together, unwed, in God's eyes is a sin, granted. I plan on rectifying that soon, as well as leave the state, anyway."

Nobody would ever stop me living with the woman I wanna be with before marriage. God included. It's not like God inforces his laws either.

-AC

rofl i didn t even know it was "illegal" somewhere in the world to live in the same appt with a woman who is not my wife or gf can't believe it exists in such a "modern" country as the US

If i want to share an appt with a girl it s my business not Mr Bush or the Governator s one .

AMEN SISTER .

My thought exactly, i live with whoever i want whenever i want and wherever i want .

hahaha nice, trying to catch me off guard. I like that.

We can do whatever we want, but I never said there wouldn't be consequences. For every action there is a reaction. Someone makes a law that is agreed on morally by the majority of the people. Someone else decides to be a rebel and not practice that law. He is therefore doing whatever the hell he likes, yet the government(the people who created and are enforcing the laws) are there to carry out the consequences of the actions of that person doing something that the majority of the people consider morally wrong.

This is a major reason I don't believe in God. He has made commandments and says he will enforce them, but I still haven't felt the effects of that time I cussed him(god) out and lied to my parents about that missing $5. That alone breaks like...5 commandments. Yea, I'm one sinful ****.

Forbidden Planet comic store are better inforcers than God himself.

You can curse, steal and kill all you want and is the G-Man anywhere to be seen? No.

Yet if you're ONE day late with payment on your comic subscription those mother****ers are on your arse like a wedgie.

On a serious note though. If that whole commandments thing is true, how many people are in Heaven right now compared to how many are in Hell? Even funnier if you wonder how many are gonna be going there. Hell is where it's at. Be sure to purchase your penthouse apartment. You get a gorgeous view of the lake of fire and they do great timeshare deals on bungalows in the 4th, 5th and 6th circles. All in return for your soul.

-AC

The govt is supposed to be secular from the Church so if it is due to the church thinking it is immoral then that's their business and their followers can obide by it if they choose, the rest of the state shouldn't be subjected to it. If, however, it has nothing to do with the church then still - it's still enforcing ideologies of what should be completely personal lifestyle choices on people that they have no right or place to. There are many different reasons for why people don't want to get married or do but are being practical about it and seeing if they can get on together in the same place at least before they possibly take anything further. If the State policy took that into consideration they might see that if more people lived together before they got married there might be a lower divorce rate which they seem to abhor so much even though that is none of their business either.

May I also ask why it is the women who are being made examples of in those two cases? If these couples can afford to take the case to the court hopefully the out dated-ness of this law can be highlighted and hopefully amended/modernised.

EDIT - coinhabitation? We call it co-habiting in the UK

no , they dont enforce it by making arrest .

however is it fair for these women to be singled out and as they have been .

the police dispatcher for example had that job for 11 years , her boyfriend for 12 years .

i think it boils down to this , elections are coming up and politics are getting involved in areas of peoples lives that are less important then real issues . . it seems to me they are going after the small fish in this lake .




and also , why is it that in both cases , its the woman being made and example of . the "boyfriends" in each case both still have their jobs and have not been "talked" to about this .

probably they're just throwing their weight about we can be forced to live in conditions below the poverty line that might be immoral too.

er, this is sorta obvious, but everyone's brought up differently, so people who think one thing is immoral always have people on the other end of the spectrum who don't mind it (cloning's a big example), and you can't really force your own morals upon someone else.

Same way you shouldn't enforce your own morals upon someone else, like this situation is. Shellie, don't be surprised if this law ends up being changed, because as was said earlier, if it's a law from the 1800's, it's obviously was made for another time and lifestyle. Shellie, I'm actually surprised that this law hasn't been challenged yet

If that law is ever adopted here in California it would be the biggest joke in the history of the US.

There are certain centuries old laws that need updating. And recenbt laws that should never have been introduced.

i know jeremy , and im happy to say that the ex-police dispatcher is taking this to court to challange this ridiculous law .


i was just outraged by the fact that she had to loose her job due to the fact that she would not do as told and marry her boyfriend , move out or loose her job.......

Is that not why the whole concept of COMMON LAW is?

After living with a person for an alloted amount of time (5 years I think) the government deems you married. You are not actually man and wife, but you get the tax benifits of a married couple.

The Constitution is a purely secular document - the only mention of religion in it is by exclusion: "no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust" & etc. Even when the president is sworn in the oath (the one detailed in the constitution) contains no reference to god or religion.

God crops up in the declaration of independence - but again that was written by Jefferson who was a confirmed Deist, so all talk of god is as a creative concept rather than as a stern parent laying down law.

Sounds Ideal, and yet you only have to look at the US to see that it's far from the case. I love visiting America and go there 4-5 times a year, but it's a schizophrenic nation and falls far far short of it's own ideals.

As to why it's women being made examples of - for much the same reason that women get put in jail here in the UK for non payment of the TV license fee: Governments find it useful to have a quick and simple reason to put people in jail when they want to. A law that is frequently broken and enforced only when needed is a powerful tool. It's more often used against women because men - statistically - are more likely to break more serious laws.

Um.. sorry to ramble.

What a stupid law.

Well Zero, the US has alot of problems, but my mates from over there were surprised at how much the UK resembles a flaming police state!

To adults living together out of their own free will are doing a moral thing.
Marriage is a later invention than living together.

Man, this is the 21st century.

I'd prefer to be polygamous like Jango Fett

Mr Zero , i dont know where you live but i think you just said a mouthful . i agree with you .

It's North Carolina were talking about here. NASCAR is a religion, and our state bird is the Fried Chicken.

Well I guess it makes sense then.

There was a law gonna be passed in the UK that anyone over the age of 18 cannot indulge in certain activities with anyone under 16. I believe one of those things were public kissing (of any kind).

-AC

stupid laws.. pity some people let bureaucracy clog their human side..

thats almost as dumb as gay marriage being legal in massachutes

Why is that dumb?

You wouldnt ask that if you read some more of assheads posts. He's a bigot.

Okay, nevermind, I've read some more of his posts and understand now

Im not a bigot,sexist or anything. The Probolm with gay marriage is that It would scew up inscurance because more people would be able to aply. Thats all.

dont listin to him, I no more bigoted than you.

Anymore "asshead" or "bigot" name calling, or of the like; will result in the closing of this thread.

Keep your conversations civil.

thank you tex

You're welcome my child! angel

So gay people shouldn't be allowed to have life insurance? It's not like random guys are going to be getting "married" to their roommates so they can get better insurance rates. Besides, what's to keep anybody from just finding a person of the opposite sex who they get along with and doing that right now? It won't screw up the economy, trust me on this one.

It gonna scew up ever business in the ecomony especially small bussiness.

What a load of crap.

Im just saying that our economy is not prepared for that right now. No need to be rude about it.

And I'm just saying that that's a load of crap.

beside why are you all standing up for it all so adimently It dosent help you. Im just using plain and simple logic here

The simple thing is that it illogical its just not gonna work out beside a majority of people are against it just like abortion. And the people need to make the laws

No, you're not. You're saying something that isn't true at all. If people were going to take advantage of the Tax cuts of marriage they'd do it regaurdless of sexual preference. Saying that gay marriage is going to hurt anything about our economy or our society is foolish and ignorant.

If anything, gays will get married for a more noble and real cause then most men and women do these days.

SH>Noooooo... It's illogical that a small minority's marital status could screw up the economy. BackFire is right, that is a load of crap. And last I heard, a majority of people were for it, not against it

I'm standing up for it for several reasons... First, because I know gay/lesbian people who have lived with their partners for years and could use some financial help. Second, because I believe that if you truly love somebody... You should be allowed to marry them.

ohhh gays are more noble that straight people....yeah right

60% of people are against it that makes a majority. a 2# I have nothing against gays I actually know a lesbian couple that I consider friends. The thing is if we allow that other groups that dont deserve it will rise up for it. Like sadists, pedofiles its a sliperly slop (and no im not comparing gay to pedophiles so dont say I am)

Didn't say that, I said they'd get married for a more noble and real cause. It would mean more to them then it does to straight people, who usually seem to take it for granted and not give it the respect it deserves, which accounts for the high divorce rate in the world.

I'm almost certain that homosexuals would take it far more seriously and see it as a great priveledge.

dude, I have a lesbian couple that are good friends of mine.....I cant be homophobic

Read your statement, that's exactly what you're doing. You're saying that if we allows gays to get married then pedofiles and sadists will rise up for marriage as well. That's comparing gays to those other groups, pure and simple.

And just because the majority of people think a certain way doesn't make it right. At one time the majority of people thought the earth was flat, they were wrong. At one time the majority of people thought that african americans were an inferior race that should have no freedom, now that mentality is looked down upon in this day and age. It's the same thing that's going on now. People are saying gay people don't deserve the same rights as anyone else because of their sexual preference, and I'm willing to bet that within 40 years, that mentality will be looked at in the same light as the way americans used to think of black people.

Your previous posts would certainly imply otherwise.

I best not comment on this because I'm a gnats pubic hair away from being banned as it is.

since when does cohabitation have anything to do with gay marriges ???

Somebody brought up the idea that cohabitation being illegal was "almost as dumb as gay marriage being legal in Massachusetts"

yes i read that sweetie but im just surprised is all that it went this far .

People have a tendancy to go off on tangents here... Myself included

BAHAHAHA that was the most retarded shit I've ever heard. This will probably get removed just for that remark, but Im going to take the time to say this anyway.

SADITS already get married. A sadist that loves to inflict pain on others. Guess what, they look just like like every other human being, and nothing stops them from getting married.

PEODPHILES already get married too. Guess what...they look like everyday human beings too! They have no problems with getting married. In fact, getting married hides the fact that they are pedophiles...for a certain amount of time. Watch out when the child is born though...

These are actually just really sick fetishes, and people with fetishes get married all the time. Being gay isn't a fetish, and NO OTHER group "like them" will come forward and stand up for their right to marriage, because there IS NO OTHER GROUP LIKE THEM.

That's my rant, hope you liked it.

I did like it, but I'm afraid to say so in case I get banned.

You don't have to worry about getting banned. Just don't put anyone down in a blunt and insulting manner, and don't break any of the rules. You'll be fine my friend.

Dont spoil it ! - worrying about getting banned has made this evenings trawl through KMC land that much more exciting for me.

We should change the thread title to "Gay Cohabitation.....moral or not????"



Yeah, I dont get what the big deal about Cohabitation is anyways.
Who cares if you're married or not?

Marriage is way overrated, it's totally not necessary in today's world.
Just look at Goldie Hawn & Kurt Russel, Susan Sarandon & Tim Robbins.

The stars are always way ahead of the curve when it comes to these types of things!

in NC we have politiains who believe we should not mix church with state .

if they interfere with our private lives and try to tell us we cant live together without being married , then thats mixing the 2 (state and church) . they want to do so when its convienent for them........

i know this law will be changed . its just a shame that it has to come to this in order to do so .

they want there cake and eat it to .

quit right tex marriage is overated

no Im not comparing them to pedofiles im saying those groups will use the defend "You gave homosexuals marriage why not us"

no good will come from this thread. please get back on topic people

and then you just say NO

because with pedofiles the problem is the age difference not the sex difference, you will not alter the age difference by allowing gay-marriage

PS:I'm all for gay-marriage and am very pleased that it is finaly possible in Belgium.

hmm nerver mind just get back on topic this is all about weither people should shack up or not

hmm okie weird way of arguing

Okay... I'll repeat what AF said, since you don't seem to have read it. Pedophiles and sadists CAN get married! That's right, it's perfectly legal for people who like to molest little children to be married! Why? Because nobody knows they're a pedophile until they do it. And oh yeah, there's one other thing.... Raping people, especially little kids, is kinda illegal... Being gay isn't... So, they can get married, but as soon as they start doing certain "naughty" things, they get thrown in jail. Sooooo... you can't logically compare the two.

Anyways, back on topic. Cohabitation being illegal is retarded

hmmmm..............*thinks out loud self* maybe gay marriges woulda been a better thread

Well, speaking as a resident of North Carolina, as a gay man, and as a man who has lived with his "significant other"...I can say with no uncertain amount of conviction that what other people have to say about how anyone lives their lives is, for the most part, irrelevant. Anyone that argues that if we allow gay people to marry that the next will be pedophiles...and then say they have nothing against homosexuals: "because they know some" and !..surprise!.."they actually LIKE THEM!"...are talking out of their ass. They may like them, but they don't truely accept them, much less really believe that they deserve to be treated as equal human beings.

Thats what all this is really about. Rights. And more importantly, how long certain groups will ALLOW their rights to be kept from them. If I want to walk down the street holding my boyfriends hand, then why does that bother anyone else?

Some people say, it's because "GOD DOESN'T LIKE IT" Well, you know what, if I am going to burn for the rest of eternity in hell, why is that not enough retribution in the eyes of those who "think" it's wrong? I'll be the one suffering for the rest of eternity, why make the here and now
difficult too?

As for living with someone and not being married to them? Well, thats just bull shit! Why have we not evolved in our morals since the mid 1900's?

Well said.

indeed

Now this may seem odd - since i'm the one that got KMCensored for speaking out against snakehead and his what i found to be offensive attitude.

But i'm not sure if he is as bad as you paint: yes people can be around homosexuals and think they are being accepting and liberal minded only to find themselves accused as perhaps shallower than they thought when the chips are down.

Lord knows each of us has our own prejudices that crop up unbidden sometimes - i think that the problem is that sometimes people think that because they dont freak out at the idea and once were in a room with a gay man they are right-on!

Its not necessarily bigotry or a belief that gays or blacks or Iranians are LESSER humans, it's just a lack of understanding, a lack of education, a lack of exposure.

I really doubt that god would send anyone into the pit fires of hell for sharing the core of someone they love.

Forget all that scary hell talk.

Yeah, god is going to punish you for being your natural self. We're born heterosexual, bisexual, gay etc. If god wants to punish us for something we cant change, well then that's no god of mine.

I dunno, keep in mind this is the same god that sends everyone to hell unless they've "confessed" their sins, and the same god that allows us to be born with "original sin" and will send us to hell even if we've led a good, wholesome life because of this.

Opinions vary about this - the religious right will tell you that homosexuality is learned behavior and can be "cured".

Now that i think about it - I may start the rumor that "Christianity" is learned behavior & can be cured!

The religious right is wrong

Depends on your viewpoint. Old testament Hell isnt where souls go when they die, it's where the wicked go after the resurrection and final judgment.

You get mention of the burning lake in revelations - but for the most part these days hell is considered to be "separation from god"

I wasn't reffering to anyone in particular...





That's my point.

Most people don't believe that anymore, the new testament is what's followed most of the time these days.

Your statement only serves to validate my argument. Even the religious persons point of view has changed, evolved... One century God says one thing, then the next he says something different. Why? Because God is fickle? No, because God as he is believed to exist was created by flawed, prejudice MAN.

Look, I am a spiritual person. I believe in a higher power...maybe not GOd as he/she/it is represented by the Judeo-Christian outlook...but certainly in a great creator/force that has some hand in the fate of the universe...and each of us.

So, if a Christian from the dark ages can look at aChristian from today and say that he is going to hell because of the differences in moral opinion and religious outlook, then why can't a Christian from today look at the future and find room for a gay man?

**Not to say that some can not, but there are certainly a lot who can't**

I dunno. Lots of people are afraid of change, and that's what gay marriges represent. It WOULD be a major change, even though gays themselves think it wont effect anyone but themselves. It would raise questions about moral righteousness and whatnot, and alot will be going on.

I'm all for it, but my opinion doesn't matter. I can't even vote yet.

It will inevitably happen. It's been coming slowly for years, and no matter what people do to stop it, gay marriage is going to become legal. In fact if anything, amending the constitution to make it illegal is just going to make people even more angry and it will come sooner.

There is a difference between morals and right and wrong. Morals are largely a matter of opinion. Right is right and wrong is wrong. It is wrong to kill someone. It is a matter of morals to assist a terminal cancer patient with suicide.

As far as opinions are concerned, everyone can have their opinion. But, just remember that it is no longer your opinion once it starts to effect me...or anyone for that matter.

No, right and wrong are based on morals, which is relative. Is it wrong to kill someone in self-defense?

Opinions are opinions whether they effect others or not. What else would it be?

Actually no, if it were a matter of morals we would be able to decide for ourselves - it's a matter of law, thus "wrong" by statute.

And that's whats causing the issue is it not - laws based on arbitrary moral definitions of goodness and badness.

The answer to the thread is that yes, cohabitation and / or gay marriage IS a moral issue - but that doesnt imply that it's wrong or right -

What that SHOULD tell us that as a moral issue it's for us to decide and that no law or individual should have the "right" to interfere.

ok , i now surrender this thread to the powers that be ...........




that being done , now i will say this .




God does not punish us for are sexuality . in fact we are part of god and he makes us who we are . so why the hell would we go to Hell for being what he made us to to be ?