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Okay, reading these forums lately, Captain America has been despised by some people here *ArachnoidFreak, cough cough*
So, i was wondering what people thought of Ultimate Cap. He is a LOT better in my opinion. More realistic, he uses guns and other weapons, is a badass, and still has the essence of Captain America. But they do not push the whole "justice and American way!" with this Cap.

Discuss

hahahaha

I still hate Captain America.

DAMN

i was hoping i could get you to like Ultimate Captain America. He uses guns and is awesome, and does not act like regular cap.

Yeah, and he beat the crap out of Giant Man...while he was all Gianty.

Yeah that was freakin awesome. Giant Man deserved to get the shit beat out of him by cap. And i enjoyed that.
I was dissapointed in Ultimate War, when Cap just shot Wolverine and that was their fight....

hey i´m not reading my name in that post only arachnoidfreak, you´ve hurt my feelings.
about cap, how can i say this, ultimate or not, he sucks.

since you hate captain america who do you like then

from marvel? spiderman, wolverine, silver surfer, and of course magneto.

well its obvious he likes Silver Surfer! DUH

anyway, sorry for not coughing your name; but why do u hate cap. escpecially Ultimate Cap, he is a lot better, u should read some of the ultimates.

i was joking, about the putting my name thing.
about ultimate cap, i´ve heard his alot better, i´ve only read one comic, the one where magneto beat the crap out of cap and thor. and when cap says to magneto look me in the eyes i will beat you, or something like that, it was hilarious.

you are thinking of Ultimate War. Read the Ultimates, Captain America is a lot better there, and the art is a jillion times better too.

no i think it is the ultimates, when quicksilver and the scarlet wich are in the ultimates headquarters, and mags goes there to give them a lesson, and he beat the ultimates.

NO IT IS THE ULTIMATE WAR. Issue three i think, and i must say, the Ultimate War was kind of dissapointing, not as good as the Ultimates..

ok calm down, it is the ultimate war, but the captain from the ultimates and from that story is the same character, but i understand what you´ve said.

okay good, just making sure

bump

others can discuss too ya know

Ultimate cap is the biggest bad ass. I mean he is such a good fighter he was able to knock out Ultimate Hulk something not even thor or iron man or giant were able to do.

They're giving Ult. Cap his own title. Hopefully they cancel the regular Cap title, and just go with Ult. Cap and Cap and Falcon. The portrayal of Cap in Cap and Falcon is pretty good I think. Priest is a great writer and some cool shit is going down.

I love Ultimate Cap. He's not such a sissy boy patriot as the original. He's a tough guy who loves his country, has a good set of morals, and will kick your teeth in if you piss him off. I think he's a good representation of what America needs to be, rather than the blind patriot the original seems to be.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
i agree

Also his suit is better, and he uses guns.
He is also more current and like u said, not a sissy patriot guy.

In Cap and Falcon, Priest is stripping him of some of his righteousness. He's seeing other people, like the Super-Sailor (Navy's answer to Steve, who is the Army's Super-Soldier) and Falcon doing things for the same reasons as Cap, but doing it with different methods. SHIELD commissioned Falcon to go to Cuba to steal a virus weapon thing, and now SHIELD is abdicating their presence, saying he went rogue and framing him. Cap and Falc are (it seems) having their minds messed with. It's such great stuff, returning Falcon to pre-Snap glory, while also taking a couple story cues from it, and making Cap an interesting character again in the regular MarvelU.

i like alot of ultimate people more than their regular counterparts.

hmmm, do u know if they are gonna release a trade paperback of Cap and Falcon anytime soon?

Yes. Two Americas, the first storyline from Cap and Falcon tpb was released a few days ago. The art is kind of fugly in the first arc, but the story was great. Since then they've added Joe Bennett who's doing an amazing job, he was on the Crew with Priest awhile back, and is doing some beautiful stuff. He started on issue #5 with the new storyline.

There's also a compilation of Kirby Cap and Falcon stuff that was released last month, called Madbomb I think.

thanks, i will have to check it out.
Yet i need to work on my Ultimate TPB collection, so far i have Ult. X-men, vol. 1-7
Ult. Spiderman vol. 1-4
and Ultimates vol. 1 and 2

is Ultimate FF volume 1 worth buying?

It was okay, not much happened, it just set up the characters, and they beat the crap out of a creepy looking Mole Man. Get it if you want, this new arc is better, with Doom in it and all. The book has a good start, and certainly can only get better. Don't worry about not buying it and having it hit the can because of low sales, it's doing fine, and even if it was crawling along at 10,000 copies sold per month, it's the FF, Marvel would float it all the cash they could.

The Ultimate FF left me cold - I thought the original Stand and jack FF had more balls than this weak re-telling.. Ho hum.

Ultimate Avengers tho - Holy hell in a handbasket! Exchanging Cap's American Dream persona for this right wing knee-jerk gung-ho patriotism is pure ****ing class.

"Surrender? Surrender! Do you think this letter on my forehead stands for France!?"

I laughed loud and long. Screw UF4 - THIS they need to make a movie out of.

anyone has pics of Ult. Capt. America?

you love seeing pics dont you?

he's much like the tried and trusted CAP AM - only without the wingy things on his head - with a nice batmanish belt and a far more believable attitude.

http://images.amazon.com/images/P/078511078X.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

yeah I do.... thanx!!!

hasn't he the "batmanish belt" before?

I never really liked Thor in the normal timeline but I think that Ultimate Thor is cool. In fact I like most of the Ultimate recreations but I like Thor most.

I thought the idea of giving Tony a brain tumor was great. It's not enough to have the Iron Man tech, but there has to be a reason for him, a hojillionaire to get into it and risk his life. Originally, it was because it kept him alive, but if he went out fighting a badguy, well whatever, at least he was helping someone hopefully. The Ult. Tony is just trying to put away some of his capitalist ideals and make a difference in the world while he still has the time to do it, almost like a mid life crisis brought on early because of a sudden shock of mortality.

i was shocked when i read the Tony Stark tumor part.
big plot twist

I've never read an ultimate comic coz they dont sell them here in the uk, or Ultimate FF for that matter. But they do have Ult spiderman and xmen and they always seem to show up in them lol, wich is cool. And i love the new cap A. His guns and his bad ass attitude and the fact that he wears a sort of leather, scaley costume. Iron Man, well Tony Stark is my fave coz he's like a super hero pimp lol, he was trying to bed storm and Jean

Sorry, no offense, but in my book Ultimate Cap is just gun-toting hero number 5147.

Making a classic hero look tougher just by giving him some weapons and leaving the "I don't fight a wounded person and I respect everybody"-attitude at home, is a very cheap way for creating a "new" hero.

The real Cap didn't hide behind guns, he confronted you with his shield and his fists only. I'm not a fan, but I respect him, in a way.

Pulling a trigger, well, everybody can do that (sadly enough).

But they still have the same Captain America essence to it, so he's not just a viilante Punisher type character who goes around killing criminals for revenge. He leads the Ultimates into battle, therefore uses guns and martial arts and tactics. Its more realistic that way if you have not noticed.

bump

still waiting for that response Kid

Hm ? Are you talking to me ? Sorry, didn't realize I had to say something. Well, I don't have that much to say on the subject (Ultimate Cap America). Everything I wanted to say, I wrote in my post a few posts ago.

It's a cheap solution : give somebody a gun, make him a bit harder and everybody's saying : "Ooh, look, now he's totally badass. How cool."

Not my cup of tea. What's next ? Aunt May with chains attached to her purse and a switchblade under her hat ?

But, only my opinion of course. Nothing more.

i think that aunt may would kick ass..........

I hate Cap America, and I hated Ultimate Cap America *RIGHT UNTIL* he broke Fury's nose. That made me smile.

so u do not hate Ult. cap anymore? good!
we need more fans of the ultimate marvel universe

Ultimates is one of the best ideas marvel has had in a while.

I finally picked up a few issues of The Ultimates, with Ult. Captain America, and it's true, he's way better than regular ol' Cap. but I still hate him.

hey, as long as DD holds his mantle as the ultimate martial arts badass of marvel, i'm fine

Well he never did so its ok. I think you thinking about Wolverine.

which issues did u get? and y do u still hate him?

I got the first TPB volume(issues 1-6), and I got the Ultimate War. He just seems like a hypocrite. he was preaching against superhumans and super soldiers, while he himself IS one. wtf mate?

I do like Ultimate Thor better than regular Thor, and regular Thor kicked major ass, so that's saying something.

what do u mean against super humans?

People seem to forget that Cap used to fight in a world war and is in fact a soldier. Sure he is stronger, more agile, faster and has a shield but he is still in the end a soldier. I find it a bit ridiculus to say that he should not carry a gun or kill anyone since that is the essence of what it is to be a soldier. That is why I find the Ultimate Cap a lot more realistic (as realistic as a comic character can be ).

I could never get into the old Cap but the Ultimate Cap is a lot more palitable....

I also think that the fact they did not bother with the whole Stark/Ironman secreat identity was a good choice. In fact I like all the Ultimates character reinvention, it has got me interested in characters I would not give a second glance in the main universe...

I AGREE!

Sorry didn't have time to read most of the earlier posts, just came to say First Cap I never much cared for (like superman) but the Cap in Ulti is a much more realistic or easier to relate to character.

another wise opinion

I really hate Ult. Cap, for a lot of reasons, but mainly, he has no honor.

says who?

Avengers shouldn't use guns. That would be too easy.

ummm, care to elaborate/clarify?
do the guns they use kill any enemy really easily.....hmmm, NO!
so why would it be too easy?

The Ultimates are a government funded strike force that have to deal with Mutants and Alien invasion/subversion/infestation so of course they are going to use some kind of weapon... The thing I liked about the Ultimates is that they are not on thier own and that they are backed by "normal" soldiers and support.... It is not like the Avengers where it is always only those with super powers that actually do all the fighting/intel/research. It is little things like these that make the Ultimates much more interesting and realistic. As for Cap using guns, can people not understand the fact that he is a soldier. People expect him to be this non lethal guy, now what kind of a soldier is that. Cap/Wolverine/Punisher were all soldiers at one time or another, in fact Cap and Wolverine used to go on the same missions, so I don't see why Cap can't be as deadly as the rest of them... It makes sence that he should use a gun, after all sometimes a shield is just not enough, and you need something more lethal.

i agree

They are superheroes. Superheroes don't use guns.

man are you close-minded and ignorant

What do you think a superhero is? Captain doesn't need a gun and it isn't necessary for him to have one. Don't call me ignorant again.

He does need a gun so far in the things he has done. So you think that when Cap fought in WW2 he shouldn't have used a gun, if so, then that is dumb. Also when he is fighting against a massive alien invasion you must think guns are not necessary right? well if so, then that is wrong also. Where does it say that superheroes are not supposed to use guns? tell me where to find it, please...

The Ultimates, of which Ultimate Cap is a part of, is a United States government funded team of para-human operatives under S.H.I.E.L.D..

They participate in armed conflicts with the backing of traditional military force. I have no problem with the Ultimates using guns, as it is supposed to be a biut more adult and realistic than the regular Marvel Universe. They are more an elite supra-battalion of soldiers on the government payroll, while doing regular PR stunts under the "superhero" moniker for the populace.

Actually superheroes have been know to use guns (just not of the bullet variety). Cap --> Soldier --> Guns, its logical. I don't hear you complaining about Iron Man and the guy has been known to use rockets among other things.

I'm DEFINATELY a fan. Everything they've done is awesome. I even like Ultimate Fantastic Four!

When they dropped a ****in WW2 tank on the Hulk... lmao. He'd been hit with lightening, zapped by billion-dollar warrior suits, smashed by a giant... and then someone drops a ****ing tank on him. Hilarious.

Captain America is better than a gun. He normally doesn't use one because he doesn't need it. Superheroes don't use guns. Spiderman doesn't use guns. The X-men don't use guns. Batman doesn't use guns. They're better than that, and they have a set of morals that they follow.
If a superhero uses a gun as a normal weapon, then they aren't really a superhero at all.

is Spiderman, Batman and the Xmen part of a government team? NO
do they have a military force with them and a General leading them? NO
i fail to see where ur right

Im refering in general. You should be smart enough to realize that. Not once did I actually mention the ultimates in my post.

Yea, but your objection is to Cap using a gun, and all we are saying is that at the end of the day Cap was and still is a soldier. We all know that Cap was created to become a super soldier and as such he was trained in the use of weapons. After all that training if he does not use those weapons then what is the point of all that training. Most other heroes have not had a military background (not to mention the fact that they are a bit squimish about killing). Heroes like Cap. Wolverine and Punisher (among others) have had some form of military training so they have been known to use guns.

As for X-Men not using guns, have you forgotten about Bishop, Forge, and Cable (and I am sure there are others). If people with these much power can use guns then so can Cap...

There are lots of heroes that use guns, they just usually make them some kind of ray/laser guns in the past so that parents don't complain about it, but recently since the age group of comic readers has increased to include adults they are not so worried about making those guns of the bullet variety.

As for heroes with guns having no morals, I think that is being a bit redicules, because by that reasoning all the cops and soldiers have no morals either. Cap does not use guns to kill indiscrimenatly but when he goes up against someone like wolverine he is not stupid enogh to think that he can beat him with just his shield so of course he would use a gun to give him an edge.

And of course heroes like Batman and Spiderman would never use guns, but where does it say that there is only one type of superhero.

When you are portrayed as honorable and righteous, picking up a gun throws all of that out of the window. Never has Wolverine, Punisher, Cable, or ANY other character, with the exception of Superman, been portayed as honorable and as righteous as Captain America. I don't care about Ult. Captain America using weapons, but by using weapons, along with some of the more hypocritical things he has said, he's lost all honor and righteousness. What I have a problem with is that he is still being portrayed as righteous, while shooting someone in the face, and saying that all metahumans/supersoldiers should be put behind bars, when he is one himself.

No one sayed he was righteous, he is petreotic but not rightoeus. The thing I could never stand about the original Cap was that he was painted as a perfect person with no flaws, and to me that seemed a bit urealistic. The new Cap is nothing like that, he is a man of his time. What I mean by these is that the guy is still stuck in the past with all the mentality of that era. Of course he is not going to be as open minded to mutants as others and after loosing everything all he has left is his petreotism and he would try and do anything to protect it and right now the treat comes from metahumans...

"No one sayed he was righteous"

None has to say it. When you portray something as something else, you insinuate. Body movement, artist's perspective, tone of the character, all of these things and more point to both versions of Captain America being righteous. It doesn't have to be typed into a speech bubble, it's simple art and literature.

I don't know what lead you to belive that the Ultimate Cap is righteous. To me he seems more of a man who feels out of place who is tring to come to terms with all the changes and the cost of his legacy (Super soldier serum). It is true that most of the old comic book characters seem a bit selfrightoeus and preechy (this was not limited to Cap). I remeber reading old copies of Fantastic Four and thinking to myself that Dr. Reed seemed to be selfrightoeus and a hypecrite, but that was because of the times. As I said there is nothing in the art or literature that leads me to belive that Ult Cap is righteous (maybe the original Cap), so I don't know where you got that from.

I don't feel like going through my comics to show you the exact quote and situation right now, but it's there.

About Cap using a gun, he isnt relying on it, its not something he couldnt go without. So its not really a big deal.

Ultimate Cap is so much better now because he isnt full of all this patriotic mumbo jumbo, he has confliction and makes actual choices.

Agreed... he is better

I've been having a hard time determining who I like better now, Batman or Ultimate Captain America... still don't know yet.

Ultimate Cap is amazing but I dont like the change he made to his mask, it used to be like a cool balaclava attached to the costume, now its just a lame helmet.

I think Ultimate Cap is really cool but the costume changes put me off the character slightly....

I like the newer more Gothic versions of Batman better than the Ultimate Captain America. Simply because i tend to hate America.

I am re-reading the Ultimates cuz it's been a while... They're still kickass.

Yeah. Theyy put more detail in the art for the Ultimates than the do for Ultimate X-Men.

Bryan Hitch is amazing at adding detail to a comic book...

Yeah, he is...

10 month bump!!!

Just found this thread.

so much hate for 616 cap here.

Originally posted by Black Adam
10 month bump!!!

Just found this thread.

so much hate for 616 cap here.

And there shouldn't be.
I am a fan of both versions. 616 Cap is not a blind patriot (like USAgent)as some have suggested. He's loyal to what he considers the spirit of America, the dream. Universal morality, not just what his goverment tells him. He's no Yes man.
Ultimate Cap's outfit looks a bit more practical, including the helmet. If we see a Cap movie, this is closer to what he'll look like.

Ultimate cap is soo cool, he uses guns YAY

Originally posted by willRules
Ultimate cap is soo cool, he uses guns YAY

And his A don't stand for France!!!

Most of Ultimate Cap's acts of coolness are here:

http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=384530&perpage=20&highlight=&pagenumber=1

Ultimate CA is lame. He even kicks his enemies - and likes it - when they are on the ground.

Some consider that being badass. I consider that being pathetic/sadistic.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Ultimate CA is lame. He even kicks his enemies - and likes it - when they are on the ground.

Some consider that being badass. I consider that being pathetic/sadistic.

I don't consider him cool for kicking a man whilst he is down, I consider him cool for jumpin out of planes without parachutes

Originally posted by willRules
I don't consider him cool for kicking a man whilst he is down, I consider him cool for jumpin out of planes without parachutes


Yeah I don't consider him cool either for kicking his enemies when they are down....................I consider him cool because he not only kicks them when they are down but smiles when he does it

Oh yeah and he kicked hulk in the ding-ding major props

Originally posted by who?-kid
Ultimate CA is lame. He even kicks his enemies - and likes it - when they are on the ground.


that's because he doesn't care how he wins as long as he does win


http://img335.imageshack.us/img335/9676/untitledscanned120zo.th.jpg

http://img428.imageshack.us/img428/3519/untitledscanned132ft.th.jpg

Ultimate Cap rocks!
I love the scene right after Hulks rampage when he turns back to Bruce and he's on the ground and he says some thing like "I did to help the team. Please dont hit me or kick me or anything because I dont think I could take that right now"
Cap: "Dont worry son, Im not here to hurt you, we're just going to get you medical attention. Here, let me take a look at that gash on your face"
Bruce: I dont have a gash on my face"
WHAM!
Cap: "You do now"

He's so much cooler than regular Cap!

Originally posted by Xirius
Ultimate Cap rocks!
I love the scene right after Hulks rampage when he turns back to Bruce and he's on the ground and he says some thing like "I did to help the team. Please dont hit me or kick me or anything because I dont think I could take that right now"
Cap: "Dont worry son, Im not here to hurt you, we're just going to get you medical attention. Here, let me take a look at that gash on your face"
Bruce: I dont have a gash on my face"
WHAM!
Cap: "You do now"

He's so much cooler than regular Cap!


That just sounds more like a jerk then somone I would consider cool


meh no one will ever be cooler then 616 cap for me. him and spider-man are the first comics I read as a kid.

616 cap- more superhero than soldier. idealistic and patriotic
ultimate cap- more soldier than superhero. practical and flawed.
i like both of them, but it is so much easier to relate to ultimate cap, why do i have to get into a punching match when i can just shoot wolverine.(its just more realistic) He is a soldier after all... Hes a wife stealer, hypocrite, jerk...a whole lot more human. now im not saying we should act like this, but its a refreshing take on America's favorite son.

Originally posted by who?-kid
Ultimate CA is lame. He even kicks his enemies - and likes it - when they are on the ground.

Some consider that being badass. I consider that being pathetic/sadistic.

I think I agree with you

toughening up a character is hardly re-inventing them

though i like ultimate cap more than the origional, it would have been cool for them to try and capture the charm and ideal that they had in the origional.

For the most part however, I think heroes that operate without guns make for a better read, because you have to write in reasons why the hero can't just shoot his opponent dead... IMHO

Originally posted by inamilist
I think I agree with you

toughening up a character is hardly re-inventing them

though i like ultimate cap more than the origional, it would have been cool for them to try and capture the charm and ideal that they had in the origional.

For the most part however, I think heroes that operate without guns make for a better read, because you have to write in reasons why the hero can't just shoot his opponent dead... IMHO

Ultimate Cap generally takes on opponents which bullets bounce off, or the opponent can heal from................

Originally posted by inamilist
I think I agree with you

toughening up a character is hardly re-inventing them

though i like ultimate cap more than the origional, it would have been cool for them to try and capture the charm and ideal that they had in the original.

For the most part however, I think heroes that operate without guns make for a better read, because you have to write in reasons why the hero can't just shoot his opponent dead... IMHO

First off, have you read the Ultimates?

They did change Cap's character a bit, but he still does have that charm that he used to. Re-read the parts where he interacts with the Wasp. He's a genuinely good person. I know he seems a lot different as well, but I look at that as a good thing. He's more gritty and his logic makes more sense. He still has traces of the original in him, such as when he fought that Russian super-soldier in Ultimate Nightmare. I believe he could've used his weapons but chose not to.


Many times, Cap can't just "shoot his opponents dead." As Will said above, many of the villains he faces won't die from a bullet to the head (or anywhere else for that matter). He usually needs to resort to his intelligence and strategic mind, such as the final battle in Ultimates volume 2.

Originally posted by SnakeEyes
First off, have you read the Ultimates?

They did change Cap's character a bit, but he still does have that charm that he used to. Re-read the parts where he interacts with the Wasp. He's a genuinely good person. I know he seems a lot different as well, but I look at that as a good thing. He's more gritty and his logic makes more sense. He still has traces of the original in him, such as when he fought that Russian super-soldier in Ultimate Nightmare. I believe he could've used his weapons but chose not to.


Many times, Cap can't just "shoot his opponents dead." As Will said above, many of the villains he faces won't die from a bullet to the head (or anywhere else for that matter). He usually needs to resort to his intelligence and strategic mind, such as the final battle in Ultimates volume 2.

i dont disagree with you, he is way better than the old one, its just to me, its like putting a wolf in sheeps clothing, the fit isnt right

im not as familiar with Ultimates as I'd like to be, but the gun reference was more in general

this thread needs a Bump





i still like 616 cap better. don't know why just do.