Proof that the Merovingean was a "One"
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This is just a theory based on unproved facts but probably what the Wahc. bros listened to.
Rumor has it that in fact Jesus was married to the so-called prostitute Mary Magdeline. They also supposedly had a child. When Jesus was crucified Mary Magdeline and thier daughter moved to France.
The bloodline interbred within itself until the 500s when intermarriage took place. The blood line formed was called the MEROVINGIANs.
I have heard theories that Jesus was the original "One". So if the Merovingians were related to Jesus then its quite likely that The Merovingian in the Matrix was a former "One".
Pick and eat at it, please.
i thought about the merv being a former one too. but think about this... he is a program... "a very dangerous program"... if he is a program therefore he is a machine. why would a machine be the salvation of zion? i mean why would an enemy profiting from the slavery of humans would want to save zion? if you say the oracle, well, she is far from being the one. true she helped the humans, but that's it.
it also brings me to another point that to those believing that sati could be the next anomaly, it is impossible because she is a program, a machine, without purpose.
In my opinion, Neo was the only ONE, and I mean that everytime the matrix Reloaded, he died but Zion was salvaged. Ya, i dont think a program was once a "ONE".
The One Himself
The "Merv being a former one theory" was discussed zillions of times here. As kalantiaw put here, it does not make sense for many reasons.
yup, i think a reason it is discussed over and over is cus there's nothin else to talk about:upL
if you mean the anomaly code is the same through out the existence of the matrix, then i agree. the shells or RSI's are different because each assimilation of the anomaly inside the matrix is within an entirely different human every sigle occurence or cycle. it's like the oracle, different shell, same program.
if you're saying that everytime the matrix got reloaded, the same exact One-every circumsatnces and incidents- reoccurs within the matrix, then i have to disagree. that's like saying your ancestors looked exactly like you did, lived exactly liked you did and you're gonna die exactly as they did.
The One Himself
It's hard to face the truth but it's time for the Matrix Forum choose the door to it right and go to the source reinserting the prime program...
Maybe Neo appears again in the matrix in a same form as Mero's.
I mean like a dangerous program seeking more and more power.
Then don't call the thread PROOF.
We've been over the Merovingian bloodline countless times, as well as the holy grail order of the same name from the 17th century.
The Mero CANNOT be a former one as all Former Ones merged with the Source. The best guess this far is, that the Mero is some kind of information-collecting program from the first perfect Matrix, who migrated with Persephone (a program designed to study human emotions) to the next generations of Matrices.
perhaps, when he saved humanity, he was turned into a program, but he got greedy....if that could be true.....then there is hope that Neo is still alive.
The logic behind the Merovingian
Omega and I have had many "discussions" about this very thing as I have made the arguement, even though I did not (and still do not) believe it to be true. After refining many of my arguements, and other theories, I became satisfied with a rather simple explination - which would be supported by the Ockham's Razor theory.
I have posted this before, and I'm asking Omega to place this in the Matrix FAQ/Encyclopedia thread. (I believe you made one, didn't you?)
While it is true that the Merovingian has much in the way of symbolism to suppor the theory that he is A previous anomaly, his character would be fundamentally flawed.
First a brief history: the Merovingians were a line of French Kings who believed they were decendants of Jesus of Nazarith, heir to the Kingdom of Soloman, and Mary Magdeline, currently believed to be a prostitute, but much evidence, now supports otherwise. The Roman Emporer Constintine, a Pagan emporer 500 years after Christ, face the problem of a growing religion, thus to merge an empire on the brink of religious civil war he fused current pagan beliefs with Christian beliefs, and you can still find pagan symbolism in much of Christianity today (think about the priests pulpit at church that has the 'X' and 'P' like symbols overlapping each other - that is a Runic Talisman from a pagan religion in the French/German/Norwegian areas of Europe). Many books were left out of todays version of the bible, and destroyed so that the more mortal characteristics of Jesus would be lost, but some scrolls, like the Dead Sea Scrolls, survived. Now it is becoming known that Mary Magdeline very well could have been heir to the House of David (the Soloman and David kingdoms were most powerful), and the prostitute image given to her by the church to defame her status.
That said, Persephone, which is iconically simular to Mary Magdeline in Greek Mythos, though has a more sinister, albit nieve, charicteristic as the Bride of Hades (Ruler of the underworld, brother of Zues).
That is important, and most basic, to understanding that is needed to make these arguements.
Arguments for the Mero as a previous anomaly:
Persephone's comments about "He was like you" (weak evidence, because it's to vague)
The Merovingian name itself, refering to a devine source
His relationship with Persephone
His business as a "Trafficer of information" refering to being omnicent
Refering to Seraph as "Judas"
The problem starts with "How did he, then, become a program?" One way would be if MWAM exsisted - which we learned does not. Another way would be if he were able to replicate himself like Smith - and that was the most plausable so that's the arguement I have made in the past. The problem is that Smith is a virus. As a hacker, one can alter computer programing code, but one cannot attach one's self to said code. Smith's cataclysmic power was that Neo altered Smiths code and by doing so removed any AI reasoning ability or program safelocks causing him to infect everything he possibly could in order to destroy Neo - or balance out the equation. This means that all anomalies could NOT replicate themselves, so the Mero could not have safely restarted the matrix AND become an entity within the matrix. Another important clue is the Mero's name itself!
The line of King's known as the Merovingions did not appear until hundereds of years AFTER Jesus. Meaning Jesus WAS NOT a Merovingian King, but the ancestor of them. That's a big hint because we KNOW that the first Matricies did not function correctly.
With that background here is my theory:
The Merovingian is the result of Neo and his predecessors. The first Matricies did not function correctly, and when choice was programmed into the matrix, the Architect created a program that's sole purpose was to influence choice. To do this, he would have to be hardwired in at a very high level in the system allowing him to read the humans who are plugged in. His function would be to change the anomalies rejection of the matrix programming by influancing their subconcious choice into accaptance. He failed miserably because the subconcious is an internal human thought process that is not influanced by outside stimuli, though it can read and sort through such stimuli.
Because the Merovingian failed, he became a rouge program and, with the help of the trainman, helps other programs hide in the system. My description of his programmed function inside the matrix would account for his very cocky personality (feeling god-like), his devoute belief in Causality and that there is no choice "Choice is an illusion created by those with power for those without ", and it would account for him being a "Trafficer of information."
Persephone is displays to much of the sinister side of the Greek mythos and little to none of the Magdeline persona to take her for more than a seductive woman only looking out for her own intrests, who is cunning, manipulative, dark, and mysterious. So she cannot be used very well in the argument for the Mero as a previous anomaly.
If there are any other arguments for the Mero as a previous anomaly that I skipped over, I apologize - it has been awhile since I've gone over this information. If you really want to hear my thoughts on it - PM me 'cause I know some people get tired of my long posts!
Constatine the Great is the Roman Emperor who was involved in creating the Bible we know today. Most people are lead to believe that he was always a Christian, but the truth is that he was only baptized by the church on his death bed when he was to weak to object. In his time Rome's official religion was that of Sun worship, known as the cult of Sol Invictus - or Invincible Sun, and Constantine was the head priest. I was wrong about the date, though, it was only 3 centuries after Christ, not 5. The religious civil wars threatened to bring down the Roman empire and it was 325 A.D that Constantine decided to unify Rome under Christianity - but not without some changes. The fusing of the religions is called Transmogrification. Here is some of the evidence:
Runic Talismans displayed on Catholic pulpits (and other sects)
Egyptian sun disks became The Halo's depicted upon Saints
Egyptian God Isis and the birth of her son Horus became the foundation for the Virgin Mary
and elements of Catholicism such as the miter, the altar, doxology, and "God Eating" (communion) were taken from various paganistic religions and rituals.
Pre-Christian God Mithras was called the Son of God and Light of the World and he was born on December 25th, died, buried in a rock tomb, and the resurrected in three days.
December 25th is also the birthday of Osiris, Adonis, and Dionysus.
Newborn Krishna was presented with gold, frankincense, and myrrh.
Even the Christian holy day is paganistic. Originally it was the Sabbath, or Saturday, just like the Jewish predecessors, but was changed to Sunday, the day of the Sun, or Amon, the Egyptian Sun God.
Also at the end of every prayer Christians say "Amen" which is a variant spelling of Amon.
Constantine was not looking for a monotheistic religion, he was unifying a nation using religion as a political tool. Then the Church came in a deity-ized Jesus, literally hijacking his character from the Christians. This goes much deeper into something that is off-topic though, about the devine goddess and all - but is essential in the rewriting of the bible since many books of the bible were left out of the version we know today, or rewritten more so than mistranslated (atleast at this point in time). So many books of the bible showed Jesus with more human characteristics, and there is speculation that there was even a book written by Jesus himself. Most of them have been destroyed. But the secret was passed down through the Knights of Templar, and then Later the Priory of Sion.
And a side note: Friday the 13th is considered unlucky because a King, I believe in France, decided that the Knights of Templar were to powerful (because he wasn't as powerful) so he convinced the Vatican that the Knights were guilty of heresy, and they built a secret army that had sealed orders that were to be opened in unison across the European empires at dawn. The orders were to slaughter the Knights, seize any who survive in a fight and burn them at the steak - the day that this happened fell on Friday the 13th.
No there is no Mary Magdaline in Greek mythos - I was speaking iconically. There is no true connection, but with an iconographic view the early life of Persephone - her innocence, naivety, youthful pleasures and such coincide with Magdaline, and Persephone's more sinister side after being kidnapped and married to Hades fits quite well with how Magdaline was rewritten to a lowly prostitute possessed by Demons that Jesus cast from her.
There is some, albit limited, archaeological proof that Jesus, as a human, existed - not in correlation with the divinity that is known through the bible, but as a preacher of good deeds. There is also proof of Magdeline's existence too, although, again, it is limited. What is harder to prove is that these two were in fact married, and that they had a daughter, who, supposedly, is named Sarah. But tyeing the loose ends together for fact is difficult - it is a mythos that could be true - which is the foundation for this.
I don't even believe that the Mero was tampered with - I remade a very loose argument for the Mero as a previous anomaly in order to strike that theory down.
I believe it works much like this:
The Oracle found that choice was needed in order to allow humans to accept the programming and gave this solution to the Architect. The Architect, not satisfied with running the risk of rejection by choice created the Mero in an attempt to influence the choice - therefore eliminating the anomaly. This would make this statement true "Choice is an illusion created by those with power for those without." His purpose was to create that illusion of choice and always influence it to accept the programming.
To do this job, the Mero would have to have a very high system access that would give him more of an Independence than most programs - much like the Oracle has as an intuitive program, and where the Agents are on the bottom level, resetting with each version of the Matrix. This high level of system access would allow the Mero to know all of the people's thoughts, so to say, he'd be able to see the "Chemical precursors" just as the Architect or the Oracle, giving him an omniscience. But because the subconscious cannot be altered as the consciousness can be, he was faced with an impossible job that led to his failure and then his exile.
If the Mero was tampered with, it would be at the first occurrence of the anomaly since the Mero's creation since he would have been reacting more like an agent attempting to stop the anomaly from rejecting the program, but the contact would have most undoubtedly altered the Mero. I just do not think that much depth is necessary in this case.
Omega I will post to the encyclopedia soon. Let me refine my wording so it's easily decipherable.
I suggested this when Reloaded first came out and everyone was mean to me...
At least people are agreeing this time!
Err, no, I do not think they are, Phoe!
Yes Ush, Mero wasnt anyONE.
while you were mentioning the countless pagan/christian messianic similarities, i'm surprised you failed to mention krishna, son of vishnu whom secular scholars use as the primary basis for their theories of christianity's origins.
er, nm, i see it now
Yeah, this theory has popped up a lot of time... it's kind of old
, but many think that he wasn't a former one. I for one DO believe in this theory but w/e.
Obviously you saw it, but I just wanted to mention that Krishna is only a portion of the diety that has become what we know Jesus to be today. While I do believe Jesus existed, I do not believe what the Bible tells me about him, for obvious reasons.
Oh. and the name is MetamorphIsis, like the egyption god Isis. Isis was the wife of Osiris (Hmm matrix connection by chance? :P), goddess of fertility, and healer. Just a little art history insight for those interested: Isis's male counter part was the God Amon. (See previous comments in this thread) who was the male God of Fertility, among other things. Isis's pictogram was known as L'isa: 5pts to anyone who can tell me who Amon L'isa is and what their secret is! LoL
I purposefully spelled my handle wrong for anti-conformity issues, symbolistic issues, and the like. Kudos to anyone who can find all the possible Matrix connections...
Oh - and I would like to correct a previous post. I previously stated that Mary Magdeline was from the House of David - My memory crossed paths, she was from the House of Benjamin.
And another 5pts to whoever can tell me about the word Sangreal. I'll give you a hint: The Sangreal documents are lost documents that were left out of the Bible which talk about the royal bloodline of Jesus and Mary, and the Merovingian kings. But what is "Sangreal"??
Its prolly something that goes against Jesus. Thats prolly y its outa the Bible
Actually i believe that the Mero was a former One. The reason because if you look at Reloaded again, look at the clothes that he is wearing in the Restaurant, then look at the clothes that Neo is wearing in Mobil Avenue in Revolutions and you'll find that they are identical.
When the One is taken out of the specific Matrix that created him then he looks like The Mero, remember that Mobil Avenue was CREATED by the Train Man to smuggle programs out of the Matrix. Mero and Persephone both refer to 'when they first came here', implying that they came from somewhere else and that this was not their original Matrix. "They come from a much older version of the Matrix".
The Architect also said that when he first created the Matrix it failed because people would not accept the program. If the One had already been created and was smuggled out before the Matrix was changed he would therefore be the Mero.
But then, was he once human and if so "what happened to his body?" (Quoting the film Brazil).
Well Revolutions showed us that teh One can seperate his mind from his body without jacking in, of course when he did he ended up in Mobil Avenue looking like Mero.
But he still needs his body to surrive! The One is Human, he ages like the rest of us.
he cant be a 'one' cos all the 'ones' before Neo returned to the source.
although these are all good points....the anomaly is human....humans cant be programs.....i have heard this argument before....and it doesnt hold up...first of all Merv says "I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive you.." so he then "survived" himself?...makes no sense.....
now i didnt read any of this.. because this is such an old topic.. but cant we just leave all these old topics for dead since most of them have been proven to the nth degree already..
Yes, exactly forumcrew. The Mero is NOT a previous one, and there is no proof that you can state that proves otherwise. He's a program. He's seen all the other one's. The one's before have died, and were resurrected, etc. Omega, this thread's gone on long enough. Please close.
power to the forum elders!
First - The clothes do not make the man! It's like saying "I wear all black, I must be Neo.."
Second, all the previous anomalies never reached the point to which their minds had a chance to seperate from their bodies. The Architect all but says that all the other 5 anomalies chose the door to the right, "which leads to the source and the salvation of Zion." Or did you miss this quote of the Architects:
It's been determined, however one-sided his truth was, the Architect did tell the truth.
We also know that the Body and the Mind are unified - meaning one cannot live without the other (oops...sorry Korri - this is more evidence that Neo's dead.
) So Neo being jacked in has nothing to do with the Mero being an anomaly or not. Neo was the first anomaly to actually touch the source in that way - we know this because of this part of Neo's convo with the Oracle in Revolutions:
Meaning all anomalies who chose the right door leading to the source were killed through their connection with the mainframe because such connection by means of the Architect would undoubtedly allow for a means of altering the code.
The Architect said people rejected the programming, yes, but he also said that this was BEFORE the advent of the anomaly. We know this because the 1st version was designed to be a utopia - but people were given no choice but to accept the program, the second version was designed on human history, but again, it was still designed to give them no choice but to accept the program. It wasn't until the third version that the "systemic anomaly" emerged as the result of an unbalanced equation created by Choice. Therefore, the theory of smuggling out the anomaly from a previous version of the Matrix has several problems, other than the hundreds of years that have passed - killing his body and, thus, his mind, there was no anomaly to smuggle out to begin with.
And the comments made by the Mero and Persephone are simply stating that they came to the Matrix from another place - like the Machine Mainframe (which is NOT the matrix).
You really should read my other posts in this thread, I have really not heard anything that would go against my theory that the Mero is a program designed to control choice that failed and is now exhiled in the Matrix. (That's the ultra simple single statement version of my theory)
yes now close this biatch!
I do not believe in chance. When I see that Neo (in Mobil Avenue and when he went to see the Oracle in Revolutions) was dressed identically to the Mero (in Reloaded at his restaurant on FLOOR 101), I do not see coincidence, I see Providence, I see purpose.
As I have said elsewhere, if Smith the Anti-One could become human (Bane) couldn't the One become a program?
When Neo was released from Mobil Avenue, Link could not recognise him, he had no powers hence he couldn't fly and had to ride in the car like the rest of the humans.
We saw during the conversation with Mero in the restaurant in Reloaded that the Mero was obsessed with getting power and more power which he believed was information, as if he was constantly trying to get something back that he had lost. Again we see this in Revolutions when in his club he talked about wanting the eyes of the Oracle since he first came here. The sight, which the Oracle said that she shared with Neo in Relaoded.
Then there's Peresphone, who said that when they first came here he (the Mero) was different he was like Neo.
I believe not only that Mero was a former anomaly i believe that he was the first and that he was the Wachi Bros representation of Adam.
I think another theory for why they made him French was for the reason that the Americans have always seen the French as the ones we took Super Power status from after World War 1 and they have always envied us for that and want it back (us being the Americans).
First off, nice one-liners you've got there. They won't help your argument though. One word: over-analyzation. Why couldn't Neo become a program? Quite simple really: he's human. The dress really doesn't have anything to do with each other; except they're both in the Matrix and both have a purpose.
If you were in the Matrix, could you just suddenly become a program through the events that Neo went through? I think not. Sure, he may have a program embedded within him, but that doesn't make him any less human. Link couldn't recognize him because Neo wasn't plugged into the Matrix, and with Smith rampaging around creating clones left and right, their presence cancelled each other out, which is why when the Logos was found, the Matrix feed was messed up; the equation was unbalanced, there was only a negative, no positive.
And so what if he was riding in a car? With everything he'd been through, would he really rather fly somewhere than be with Trinity, Seraph, and Morpheus? In Reloaded he flew because everyone else had a way out; here they were his way out. He definetly had powers, why wouldn't he? He wasn't in Mobile Ave. anymore.
Actually, no. If you payed any attention to what the Oracle said in Reloaded, you'd know the real answer. "What do all men with power want? More power." Same applies to what he says in Revos, he wants more and more power; him and the Oracle also aren't the best of pals either. The sight was not shared by the Oracle and Neo, where did you get that? "You have the sight now, Neo." In no way did she give it to him or share it, they're both completely different instances.
Persephone meant her statement in the sense that Neo and the Merv were both ambitious, and had a purpose to do something, but now that the Merv was in exile, he had no purpose, but Neo does because he's the One.
The Merv was a program to control choice, as Metamorphisis previously stated. Your religious interpretation of the Matrix Trilogy seems to be a bit out of tune, my young Padawan. If the Merv was Adam then Persephone was Eve, and that just isn't true.
And finally, you're from the UK. How would you know what Americans would see the rest of the world as? And when does anyone say that they envy it? You generalize way too much, my friend. Your theories are severly flawed, a shame you cannot see this. I suggest you read Metamorphisis's posts again, and go to a few more threads in this forum; yo haven't been around long enough to see this issue debated to death, and also proved drastically wrong.
Try not to think in terms of right or wrong, Meta put forth a theory, I put forth another, I guess that's what forums are for.
I didn't say you were wrong, I meant that you have been proved wrong. There is a difference. I just said that your theory is quite flawed, and I criticized it. I guess that's what forums are for.
u put forth a theory that is months and months and some more lot of months old.. and has been disproven 100 times...
Mero is a program to control choice. He was cast from the Machine City Main Frame and became an Exile in the Matrix like Meta said. A person should use the Search Option to gather info on stuff like this. After all, it's been discussed quiet a bit.
i thought that they "Touched" the source code and went off into the real world and remade Zion with that select nmber of people.
Larry> Ah, yes. The full story: One reaches Source, Architect gives choices, anomaly code is assimilated into the Source and the Matrix reset (the One - now normal human being) returns to Zion with the chosen ones from the Matrix and rebuilds the place.
But why say "I've survived your predecessor - and I'll survive you" to Neo? And if Mero was a former One, why not tell us in Revolutions?
Because he isn't a former one!
Some of you believe as I believe some of you do not. But those of you who know that we are nearing the end of our struggle, know that the truth will be revealed soon but before it can be, the Wachi Bros must be consulted.
Possibly because he was the first one. And maybe instead of doing that "save Zion" choice, he did return to the Matrix and somehow became a program and then was 'beset' by the other ones.
The Matrix "cycle" cannot be completely repeetive... sure Zion may have been completely anihililated b the machines, but that dos not nesciraily mean that a single ship could not have survived it, hiding in the tunnels, returned later, then restarted Zion while another "anomoly" was being formed in the matrix.
that prolly made absolutely no sense at all
When I first saw the matrix much of what was said reminded me of Jehovah's Witnesses used to keep on telling me. Like Morpheus described the matrix as a system, they too described the world as a system, one that would soon be replaced by another, brought about by the return of Jesus.
They also believe that the first perfect human to be created was Adam (but was then corrupted by sin), the last was Jesus. Now the Oracle described the Merovingian as being a very dangerous program, one of the oldest of us...
Now if punishment for eating from the Tree of Knowledge was exile from the first perfect world, could Adam and the Merovingian be infact the same person. Could infact eating from the Tree showed the Merovingian that the matrix was infact fake thus vacilitating the creation of the first One. His eyes opened and he realised that the world was infact the matrix.
I am a trafficker of information, I try to KNOW all that I can.
there is the simplified explanation of what Iw as trying to say. The meroviginian may not ahve to be human in the first palce to be considered an 'anomoly' or 'the one'. That is just an assumption.
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