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Do u think its wrong to be gay? or bi? are u against people who are?

i think being gay or bi is wrong.

but this will get closed soon...im saying 5 min max.

Yep.., HH is right. This will be a short lived thread.

oh this isnt acceptable? oops didnt knowi thought it was just a normal good topic

im always right eek

i dunno ive seen worse things in forums then this i just assumed it would be alright

agree thumbup

It may get closed, it may not. But I don't think people can help what sexuality they are and they should not be condemned for it. Everyone is differnent.

Socially, I have no problem with them. As long as they don't try to push their agenda on me I consider them no different than anyone else.

The political (for lack of a better word) ones bug me though. I don't understand why they make their sexuality so important in every damn thing they do.

It is my firm belief that most 'victimized minorities' make their situations worse by making such a big deal out of everything. I really don't care what you want to do with your personal life as long as it doesn't hurt others, so just stop yelling at me about it, y'know?

As far as forum rules go, I believe religion and politics are off limits. It would also be safe to assume that any controversial topics such as homosexuality and abortion would also be off limits.

There are no bisexuals. In reality, they are called "confused".

im so strait it hurts



seriouslyermm

well i wouldnt say im bisexual but if a chick wanted to hook up for the night id do it. Ive been with a girl before but i dont like them that way.

thats what i was thinking when i made it....and its not like were calling people down its just opinons

i am tttaly fine with it i have gay friends

"well i wouldnt say im bisexual but if a chick wanted to hook up for the night id do it. Ive been with a girl before but i dont like them that way."

See what I mean? Confused.

i have nothing against any sexual orientation

It's no more wrong to be white, black etc.
You dont choose your sexual preference.

I think it's ridiculous to bash a person and persecute them for something they cant change.

Many people use the bible as an excuse to berate homosexuals.
They should realize that not one word in that entire book was written by Jesus.

Nothing wrong with being gay. Anyone who thinks differently should go back to 1943 with all the other prejudice ignorant saps who thought it was "wrong" to be black.

I have no problem with anyone being gay or bi as I dont have any problem with any bodies religion as long as its not prejudice or hateful to other people.

I know enough gay people to know that they're just like everyone else, except when it comes to their orientation. It really shouldn't bother you, and it's not really your business anyways.

What ever people do with themselves, to themselves, etc. is their own buisness...who are "we" to say it is wrong or even right....hell who is to say being straight is right. Well I do know that answer. The Christians will say it is Gods way, but not everyone belives in God/higher power, they may have an alternative spiritual belief that doent answer to one "god". Does "gods" way apply to them??

Not everyone believes in a Christian god.

Not everyone believes in "God"

Why should I care what other people's sexual preference is? Does it affect me? No! Therefore THey can do whatever they damn well want.

I dislike discrimination that comes from faith. Even the Bible shouldn't be taken literally. If it was, we would be forced to believe that Jesus will marry a town

I have nothing against different sexual orientation, which is pretty obvious, since I don't have much against myself.

Tex, I think leaving ONE thread with that topic open will save us from surviving tonnes of them

Poland is an ultra conservative Catholic country, how are gay people treated there?

uhm... most catholic people are homophobes

But thankfully the next generation (especially the girls) forget about stereotypes.

Its not much better over here.
Dont believe Hollywood.

I never did

Which doesn't change the fact that Poland is still pretty much of a xenophobic country It'll take time for people to get rid of racism...

let alone different sexual preferences...

And to think that we were so tollerant once

How can it be 'wrong'? I dont understand why people refer to homosexuality as a choice, because, its not!

Do you know how many teenagers commit suicide a year because they are afraid to come out and come clean about their sexuality in fear of abuse and rejection by people as well as their parents?

Ugh! Im not even gonna go there.

No, being a homosexual is NOT wrong! What is wrong is people are made believe that being a homosexuality is wrong and unnatural.

I have many friends that are bi or homosexual, and no, i am certanly not against them, or anyone else thats gay.

God wrote in the bible that it's evil.
You're going to burn!

its my belief becuase god made us in his/her image that he/she wont condeme us for who we share our love with........

my sexual prefrence is my buisness and i dont expect anyone to but in to it...........




unless they are wanting to be in my bedroom in my bed .

I'm straight as a die, but I can get a little fruity when Tex and BF are about.

I understand its an effect they have on most straight men.

Mech

We shouldn't forget there's no proof for the existence of God

I love how these debaits just go on in circles droolio and it always end on religion!

Why dont we have a challange of not doing that

Its true though!

When I'm offline I'm all beer and football, but as soon as I come online I'm like, "Heellooooooooooo!" and pinching asses.

Its all too homo-erotic I tells ya!

i think that being gay or bi is wrong.For one thing, it wasn't meant to be that way.Naturally, females are supposed to be attracted to males and vice versa.If bi's and gays were what nature intended, we'd each have both fully function male and females organs in us.

it is definently not wrong to be gay or bi or lesbo! who are we to say its wrong?

Evolution was a chain of accidents and circumstances, we could have ended with both organs you know And that has nothing to do with our beliefs

I'm suprised some inbred hillbilly hasn't used the "Adam and Steve" line yet.


*Ties t-shirt waist in a knot to annoy the homophobes*

wise old th

You know whats really ironic, you are the one saying that there are many ignorant people on this board in the other thread.

LMFAO!!

there IS a difference!!!!













every gay guy i know is so funny

I think I have something for all the homophobes to think about

http://loserz.scribblekid.org/comics/20020201.gif

Internal homophobia! droolio Its what those bad ass homophobics are!

*whisperes* they're all really gay.

not only is it stupid to say it is "wrong" to be
gay
lesbo
bi
black
(any kind of) religion
but also to be left handed!

its always the thing that is more common that isnt "wrong" such as
straight people
white people (wait...are they more common? i dont know)
and right handed people are more common, therefore the stupid people think that left handed people are "weired"

i know this b***h of a girl who once said to an "unpopular" girl (mind you this b***h wasnt popular either, but she thought she was) 'are you left handed?' and this poor girl (who is overweight and not too good looking...not saying i have anything wrong with overweight people or not too good looking people.....) is very shy, so she just nodded, and the b***h was like 'freak!'
lucky for the "unpopular" girl, i was sitting behing the b***h, who was leaning back on her chair and i kicked it forwards and was like b***h!

i cant stand it when people are mean to others! (unless tey have a right to be)

omigosh! I'm left handed! I'm a FREAK! fear

this gets too off topic

sorry thats me...im a natural off topicer!

im staright

I simply don't spend my precious time thinking of Gays or homosexuality issues. That's all I have to say about this whole stuff.

btw-I'm straight, and I love women.

I'm not confused, i know im straight....i can never live without guys! lets just say im bi-curious. lol

I am heterosexual.

I don't think that homosexuality is wrong. In fact, it is wrong that it is used in a derogatory sense.

what i dont get or like is how people dont see anything wrong with lesbians and guys get all pumped and stuff when girls make out. but when its two guys alot more people have a problem with it and say its sick and wrong....why is it ok for girls then?

Theory: A lot of men silently fantasise of being with more than one woman. So seeing two girls make out doesn't look thaaat evil to men.
But most men may feel threatened just by seeing two men making out or kissing.

WindDancer> Best reply yet!!!!

Fact: men are more visual so seeing twice as many breasts etc. is more stimulating than pornography with just one subject.

Rampant homophobia answers the rest

yeah but its not just men....i know girls that if they see girls kissing they dont care but when guys do there like ewww........here is an example, on American Pie when we were watching it they never said anything when the girls kissed without shirts on but when the guys did it was all of a sudden discusting. That was why they put it in the movie too for humour and to make people say 'yuck'. The girls were in the movie because they thought it would be hot.

The first easy step in stopping homophobia is to NOT answer prejudicial questions like this "are you straight or queer" - lose your "fear" of being labeled gay.

But a BAD example - it was presented as men who didnt want to kiss each other being forced to do so and finding it disgusting, you'd have to be pretty twisted to find that erotic.

Which now that i think about it.... Oh yeah baby...

Well, lots of peeps said this thread would get closed as i've read several opinions, but I thk as long as no one gets ugly that it wouldn't get closed.

My opinion, Its very very wrng to be gay or bi. Thats not the reason we were all created.
Putting it in schools to be taught, thats its ok, is even more wrong, i mean if you want to live that way, then it's your life, but to teach it to kids, NO way, thats up to the parents to do that.

So it's wrong to be the way they were naturally made to be? Yeah, that makes sense. While we're at it, it's also wrong to be black, or mexican, or asian, or jewish or anything that doesn't fit into my specific way of life. Nevermind the fact that these people don't hurt me in any way, and aren't doing anything hurtful or wrong to anyone else. It's still wrong nonetheless.

Also, yes, god forbid school teaches children to be accepting of people who are different than them. Can't have that.

I don't believe you're born that way.
And i have no idea what you're talking about : it's wrng to be black/mexican or asian not sure i understood what you're saying there. or where you were wanting to go w/that. I don't feel anyone is born to be gay.
<<--just my opinion. I think they chose that lifestyle

its like this , just as we dont choose the color of our skin and the parents we are born to , we dont choose who we fall in love with . its NOT a 'chosen' lifestyle .

its who god made us to be.....

a person who loves another no matter if he/she is the same gender .

Sorry, but they ARE born that way. The one's your reffering to are the psuedo gays, who experiment a bit in college to "keep an open mind". You cannot help who you are attracted too.

Why would anyone choose to be gay? So they could get made fun of MORE during the course of their life?

Also, the comment I made about blacks/mexicans/asians etcs. was an attempt to show the similarities between all mindless prejudice, rather it be against gays in saying they are "wrong" for the way they are born, or rather it be against blacks in saying that it's "wrong" to have black skin. Again, all prejudice is the same. That's the point.

So if they aren't born gay, then what makes them gay? Is it a tramatic event in their life? Is it that they had a feminine dad? Or an overpowering mother? Sorry, no. Simple logic suggests that homosexuals are born the way they are, they are born with a different chromosme or something that changes who they are attracted to during their life. It's not just something that happens.

well said BackFire , i was watching a program on tv that was saying the exact same thing about there being different gene that makes us attracked to one gender or the other.....

Thats your opinion Fire and i can respect that, although i don't agree. I do NOt think you are born that way, I think Satan puts blinders on people and directs them in that way. Yes, some do chose that.
I understand now what you were saying about prejudice, i don't treat people that are gay differnt. But in no way will my kid be taught that at school, Thats MY choice as a parent, if they shld be taught that way or not. NOT the schools.

and that being your opinion , i respect that F E . i dont understand how schools even came up in this . its not like its a coarse that they take to study on . teachers do not teach this in school . NOT in any school that i know of .

"I think satan puts blinders on people and directs them in that way."

So, should I assume then that by your beliefs all homosexuals are going to hell because they are doing the bidding of satan, according to you. The fact that you think they choose to be the way they are proves to me that you probably haven't spoken to many homosexuals about their beliefs on the subject. Ask a homosexual if they "chose" who they were attracted to, most of them will tell you "no". And like it or not, they have more credibility on the subject then you do, simply because they're living what we are only discussing, and they know how and why they are the way they are.


"I don't treat people that are gay different. But in no way will my kid be taught that at school".

So, you don't think children should be taught to accept gays in school? That's all well and good for the intelegent parents who will actually teach their kids that themselves, but what about the hateful, ignorant religious wacko parents who teach their kids "GAYS ARE BAD, THEY ARE THE BANE OF ALL LIFE BECAUSE THEY DO NOT HAVE SEX WITH WHO GOD MEANT FOR THEM TO HAVE SEX WITH, THEY ARE EVIL AND ARE GOING TO HELL WHEN THEY DIE". Should children not have a counter for that horrible parenting?

Also, if you are to say that tolerance for gays shouldn't be taught in school, then be default you are also saying that tolerance for anyone different shouldn't be taught as well. This is backed up by the statement of "I don't treat people that are gay different". If we take that statement seriously, then simple logic says that you don't condone school teaching tolerance about anyone with a different life style. Is that the case? Or are you being a hypocrite?

I find it hugely disturbing and irresponsible that you associate homosexuality to hell and satan. It makes me that much more proud that I don't share the same idiotic religion that condones such poor disgusting statements.

People are born that way, I am a strong believer of that. There are many people out there who hide there true identities because they are afraid of being rejected by "society". Why in the world would anyone choose to go throught that, A gay man can't help being attracted to another man, even though he is in complete denial, he will always be attracted to man because its his natural way. I do not believe SAtan has anything to do with it.

Whoa, you misunderstood what i was talking about concerning teaching it in schools. I was NOT talking about teaching about being tolerate to gays, I was talking about Teaching them to explore and to find out if you are or not.
I know that most gays will say they were born like that, I don't believe that. God did not create us like that, and being Gay is an abomination to God. He destroyed Sodom because of it. IF it was ok to be that way, then why would he destroy it ?? Satan lies to them, puts blinders on them and puts that lust in their hearts.
Just my opinion hun we've all got them. I'm not being disrespectful of anyone just stating my opinion.

I totally respect your opinion, My concern is that there are people out there who would find this offensive. I know a Guy who goes to the same church I do and he is Gay (and extremely hot!) anyway he is a strong believer is God and is a very sweet kid. If he ever read this he would be heart broken to think that his sexual identity is a work of Satan, I don't believe so, God made him in his own special way and loves him very much.

You're joking. You're not being disrespectful to anyone by stating your opinion? - "being Gay is an abomination to God. He destroyed Sodom because of it. IF it was ok to be that way, then why would he destroy it ??"

I'm sure there are many MANY homosexual who would be hugely offended if they read that. That makes it sound as if their way of life is horrible.

Backfire & Capita: Thats what this thread is about, your opinions on if it's wrng to be gay or bi.

There's plenty of scriptures in the bible thats states very plainly that it's wrong.

and not to mention IF this can be lieved as it comes from a book , God didnt destroy Sodom cuz of homosexuality........

Yes I am aware of that, I am just stating that for example that Guy I know would find what you're saying very offensive, If you think Homosexuality is wrong, go ahead, but do not relate it whatsoever with Satan. Lets just say that God created man to love man and woman to love woman, and you attracted to the opposite sex, you can't help loving the opostite sex can you? Its the same thing with homosexuals they can't help it, that is what they are. Imagine then people relating your sexual identity to Satan. That would be harsh, because all your doing is following your heart, and loving, doing what God commands, 'loving'.

i said it before , God made us in his/her image . i know the God i believe to be our god will not look down on us for loving who we love .

This is about sodom and gomarrah

Gen 19:5 And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
Gen 19:6 And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
Gen 19:7 And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Gen 19:8 Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
Gen 19:9 And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
Gen 19:10 But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
Gen 19:11 And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.Gen 19:12 And the men said unto Lot, Hast thou here any besides? son in law, and thy sons, and thy daughters, and whatsoever thou hast in the city, bring them out of this place:
Gen 19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the cry of them is waxen great before the face of the LORD; and the LORD hath sent us to destroy it.
Gen 19:14 And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.
Gen 19:15 And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city.
Gen 19:16 And while he lingered, the men laid hold upon his hand, and upon the hand of his wife, and upon the hand of his two daughters; the LORD being merciful unto him: and they brought him forth, and set him without the city.
Gen 19:17 And it came to pass, when they had brought them forth abroad, that he said, Escape for thy life; look not behind thee, neither stay thou in all the plain; escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed.
Gen 19:18 And Lot said unto them, Oh, not so, my Lord:
Gen 19:19 Behold now, thy servant hath found grace in thy sight, and thou hast magnified thy mercy, which thou hast showed unto me in saving my life; and I cannot escape to the mountain, lest some evil take me, and I die:Gen 19:20 Behold now, this city is near to flee unto, and it is a little one: Oh, let me escape thither, (is it not a little one?) and my soul shall live.
Gen 19:21 And he said unto him, See, I have accepted thee concerning this thing also, that I will not overthrow this city, for the which thou hast spoken.
Gen 19:22 Haste thee, escape thither; for I cannot do any thing till thou be come thither. Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar.
Gen 19:23 The sun was risen upon the earth when Lot entered into Zoar.
Gen 19:24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;
Gen 19:25 And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground.
Gen 19:26 But his wife looked back from behind him, and she became a pillar of salt.

with all do respect sweetie , i know the story . however , i dont believe everything i read . especailly from the Bible......

anyone who knows me here knows i mean no disrespect to you but the fact is , its just a book written by man not by our god/goddess .

Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.
2 Tim 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.
2 Tim 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 Tim 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2 Tim 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2 Tim 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2 Tim 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
Lev 18:22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.
Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

ok wasn't sure you knew the story from your answer. Not being disrespectful hun

I don't let the bible decide what I think is and isn't wrong. It's an ancient book with ancient ideas that for the most part have no place in todays society. I highly doubt that if there is a god, he will punish all homosexuals for the way they are. And if he does, then he is one shitty, cruel and incompetant god.

hmmm...

I have to argue this whole "its not a choice" thing. If you mean that you can't help being what you are, sure, I agree with that. On the other hand, if youre saying that people are just born gay, I would have to disagree. If you ask gay people about their past, most have had some horrible, abusive or otherwise traumatic thing happen to them. It could happen at a very young age, but its there. I would reckon that about 75 percent of gay people suffered abuse (physical, sexual, verbal, etc.) at the hands of someone of the opposite sex.

Every single gay person I've known well enough to ask about their past has had some form of trauma from someone of the opposite sex. To me, those kinds of stats are kind of indisputable. I'm sure some people are just attracted to their own gender, but I think that percentage of the gay population is low compared to the people that were turned away from heterosexuality because of some evil abusive bastard.

Strange, all of the homosexual I know have led perfectly normal and decent lives.

Maybe I just know the freaks...

Perhaps, whatever the case I know that their are many homosexual that fall under the catagory you described, but I think they're not as abundant as you seem to think.

"Born Gay" isnt exactly what I'm saying, When i was 5 I wasnt even thinking of boys and i am sure a little gay boy wasnt thinking of one either, Its just when we start feeling attraction towards somebody it is when you discover your sexual identity, A guy I know (same guy from my other posts) had his 1st crush when he was in the 3rd grade (on a boy). His parents are wonderful people and so is he, He hasn't suffered a trauma or anything, its just that, thats his sexual identity. It has nothing with being born gay, but he didn't choose to like boys either, its just the way it is.


Personally I don't know why there is a thread about this, its so weird, Whats the big deal with homosexuality?........

I think its wrong

Why!?

Well im a christian and its agaisnt my beliefs.Its a violation of Gods law

I'm Catholic and its against my beliefs too, Homosexuals aren't even allowed to recieve a sacrament of God, but I don't think its wrong. Its their sexual identity.

but in any case, everybody follows their own beliefs and its totally cool
just as long as nobody is hurt or hated.

Well you know my kind of church is open to all kind of people.We allow them in our church if they want to hear from the lord.But if there not interested in changing there ways then there not aloud.You can say its there sexual agenda,nonetheless its still a sin in the eyes of the lord.

One thing that does suck though is that, the one guy I know his boyfriend is really, really, really hot! He's gorgeous! and I'm like Hah! i wish! That man could be mine, too bad he's gay!

Only problem I have When I see really hot guys are gay, because I wish I could hit on them hehe, but Its cool I guess! woot-woot!

Many fish (babes) in the ocean!

Its a big pond theres plenty of hot guys out there that arent gay.Myself included but im 13 probaly too younge for you

But how can it be a sin? I mean how do you tell an 8 year old boy that he can't follow his heart and like another boy because he is sinning, all he is doing is loving and loving is not a sin, mind you.

Its not in Gods will for a man to love another man.I dont believe in that whole thing "Some are just born that way"or "They cant help it its just who they are" they can help it because God doesnt make mistakes.And its would be a mistake on God's part creating a human that automatically liked another human of the same sex

I don't think its a sin or anything, but from a biological standpoint I think it is irresponsible to be gay.

I've said this before and gotten my a$$ chewed for it, but I think its is every humans duty to have offspring and keep the species going. Argue it all you want, its just how I feel.

no2

Im paralised from shock from all the reples in the last 2 pages. shock

Its ''irresponsible''? What the hell? How can it be irresponsible?

Think logicaly for once, why would anyone choose to be gay if they dont have to??
Why would anyone choose a lifestyle in which he/she will be discriminated against by people like you and ''fiery eyes'' person, and bunch of other religios nuts around the world?

Well, Im planning never to get married, and im sure in your eyes im going to hell, and if you were my next door neightbour, im sure you would never speak to me either!

It is not my dutu to continue the spicies, it is my choice! No one can make me have kids if i dont want to.


1 in 10 people is homosexual, like it or not, and by that, a 10th of the worlds population is going to hell just because of something they dont have a choice over, by your logic.

And doesnt bible also say you shouldnt judge anyone? Looks to me like thats all you people are doing! Such hypocracy.

I would reckon you're wrong. In fact it's crystal clear that you have no idea what you're talking about.

To be fair, lil, he said he DIDN'T think it was a sin to be gay. So obviously he doesn't think all homosexual are going to hell.

He didnt say it was a sin, he said its irresponsible, which is what I said was just rediculous. I just continued on to the 'fiery eyes' comments about sin.

Ah okay. I gotcha.

I dont know about you guys & gals but I've had an epiphany!

Gays are doing Satan's work!

And he's rewarded them by making them gorgeous hot and rich!



-------

The truth is many Christians are extremely homophobic people who feel it its their Christian duty to persecute gays.

They should realize however that the bible was written decades after the death of Jesus, that in the early 100s the Orthodox church basically rewrote the scriptures to their liking, completely destroyed several other scriptures unsuitable to them and complied the book we see today.

Jesus would be rolling in his cave if he was still in it!

I think its the nice church going bible reading public that has to worry about burning in hell, the gays will be shaking their bootys all the way to the pearly gates!

I don't want to be annoying... well, more than normal, mah... but there are some that "changed" (weird way of saying this) from straight to gay/les after a bad experience with someone from the opposite sex

I guess I just misunderstood you

well put suga'

Im sure you ment in the early 1000's

In early 100s church was still one, it was only in the 1054 that church separated into Ortodox and Catolics, and Orthodox moved to Alexandria

The gospel of St Thomas implied that Christ viewed homosexuality as OK, but it was deleted by some politician or other.

For a 13 yr old, I comend you on your beliefs. I don't not feel they are born that way, i thk it's a cop out for them being that way. The bible highly is against that. heres jsut a few scriptures.
Lev 20:13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.
Lev 20:14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it is wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you.
And to say LIL***that I persecute gays, I have NEVER done that ever, i've stated my opinions on the situation, which is why this thread was created. We've had gays come to our church and no one every persecutes them or tells them they are not welcome. Me and my husband manage a ranch w/cabin and rv sites and we've had singings & diff things out here and we've had gays here, we have never made them feel unwelcomed at all. Jesus didn't come to condem the world but to save the world, so I would have no right to do that. the best thing for me to do, would be Serve Jesus w/all my heart and set the example.

OH oh forgot this, if you're saying they were born that way, then you're saying Their Will to choose has been taken from them. I don't blieve that at all. We all have the right to chose.

Congratulations on having an opinion!

Backfire, thanks for helping to clear up my statement while I was asleep.

Lil B, thanks for not grouping me with the religious zealots. I'm just a guy with an opinion.

No we dont.
You didn't choose to be straight, white, black, right handed, blue eyes, red hair.

You're born the way you are babe. winkiss

..........

The fabulous gays are a gift from god!
Without those divine dolls we'd be living in fashion hell!

let them lead their own lives, you rule no persons but yourself, therefore have no right to do such unwritten laws onto others.

come on bite me for it.

i couldn't care less what you say right now, my brother does what he wants, my ex girlfriends sister does what she wants, no smiting involved.

but to put it in perspective, don't use the fact that people see you as different as racism or sexism etc. that annoys me more, ie- 'it's cos im black' or 'you just hate me cos im gay' im isck of hearing that, so don't bother

I think when people say they are born being gay you're taking away their right to chose. No, you can't chose your race,sex.... but you have a WILL to chose, that is not taken from you ever.

^
That makes no sense.

Ok, I get what you're saying.

And no, you are very wrong, sexual orientation is not a choice, its not a free will, its the way people are.

Thats like saying for example, people with ginger hair are not born that way, they have a choice. They can dye their hair, sure, but that doesnt change the fact that they are still ginger, NO MATTER WHAT.

Sometimes I feel like dipping my hand in the ginger jar!

I just thk you're saying that they don't have a chose & that i don't accept. Your hair color, yes you can change, FREE WILL is to everyone, thats not taken from you. Where that came from to me is just plain hog wash. sorry not meaning to be disrespectful by saying that.
I Just don't get where you're coming from LiL, but thats ok we can agree to disagree.

Let me ask you something Fiery Eyes, can you be gay? Can you be attracted to the same sex, have sex with them, get married to them and live with them? Can you?

No, i can not, cuz i chose not to. I chose to serve the Lord. Can i change my mind, sure i can. Would I, NO!!

If you can change your mind just like that as to which sex you can be with, then you, my dear are bi-sexual, not straight.

LOL LOL we all have the right to change our mind LIL, thats what FREE WILL is, WE have the right, we are not born with that right taken from us.

I get that from just about every thread I read in here - tho i think I am becoming numb to the landslide of ignorance...

Born with it? Let me tell you something.

You are born with homosexual tendencises, like it or not. Thats scientificly proven.

People who are homosexuals - the parts in your bran that tells your body if you are going to be male or female at birth, in homosexuals is mixed up a little. Sometimes, in males, the chromosomes tends to prodce more of female hormones than male, making their body confused, meaning even thou they are lets say male, they will be attracted to another male as opposed to female!

Thats science, and thats true, providing you know what science is. Or does the Bible forbid that too?

How can someone, whos generic make up is, the way it is, have a choice?

Let me tell you something sister, if we 'had choice' with our generic make up, there wouldnt be such a thing as a disease in the world and we'd all be beautiful sexy people!

Now, let me spell the homosexuality for you - PEOPLE ARE BORN LIKE THAT, IT IS SCIENTIFICLY PROVEN, AND IT IS NOT A CHOICE!

as much as i love science, but its not always correct...only time will tell.

only time will tell.

That's not 100% accurate yanno. Plus you can be on dangerous ground, because once you start presuming some sort of genetic predisposition or anomalous "gay gene" it's a short step before people start looking for a "cure"

Only thing we can say with any degree of certainty is that

A) homosexuality may be partly acquired at birth the full gamut of nature and nurture has to be taken into account when talking about peoples sexuality.

B) The intolerant homophobes are jealous because all us liberals are getting laid so much.

How can you look for a cure for genetic make up? Im not talking about ilness, but a genetic make up, last time i checked those two were very different.

Thats like saying, lets look for a cure to hetrosexuality.

gene therapy - "abnormal" genes can be repaired through selective reverse mutation or exchanged for "normal" genes by DNA crossover (something called Homologous recombination - which i admit to barely understanding...)

HOWEVA: I still say the theory that there is a genetic basis for homosexuality is just that a theory - and a more or less discredited one. Certainly far from conclusive proof.

do u guyz know any other organisms that are homosexual besides humans...

Homosexuality is rampant in many animals.
I just read a very interesting article about penguins and dolphins.

I'll go find it and post it.

----
During WWII the nazi's used to describe homosexuality as "animal behaviour".

INTERSPECIES HOMOS!!!!

Oh, you prolly mean penguins with penguins and dolp..nevermind.

I wonder if the Christian brigade think that animal homosexual behaviour is satan messing with there little animal brains.. cos we all know God doesnt make "mistakes" ... I await the answer with breath baited.

Plus - I still like the idea of a gay penguin/dolphin couple.

And dolphins are the only spicies apart from humans to have sex for pleasure.

Here's the article:

PART 1:

February 7, 2004
Love That Dare Not Squeak Its Name
By DINITIA SMITH

Roy and Silo, two chinstrap penguins at the Central Park Zoo in Manhattan, are completely devoted to each other. For nearly six years now, they have been inseparable. They exhibit what in penguin parlance is called "ecstatic behavior": that is, they entwine their necks, they vocalize to each other, they have sex. Silo and Roy are, to anthropomorphize a bit, gay penguins. When offered female companionship, they have adamantly refused it. And the females aren't interested in them, either.

At one time, the two seemed so desperate to incubate an egg together that they put a rock in their nest and sat on it, keeping it warm in the folds of their abdomens, said their chief keeper, Rob Gramzay. Finally, he gave them a fertile egg that needed care to hatch. Things went perfectly. Roy and Silo sat on it for the typical 34 days until a chick, Tango, was born. For the next two and a half months they raised Tango, keeping her warm and feeding her food from their beaks until she could go out into the world on her own. Mr. Gramzay is full of praise for them.

"They did a great job," he said. He was standing inside the glassed-in penguin exhibit, where Roy and Silo had just finished lunch. Penguins usually like a swim after they eat, and Silo was in the water. Roy had finished his dip and was up on the beach.

Roy and Silo are hardly unusual. Milou and Squawk, two young males, are also beginning to exhibit courtship behavior, hanging out with each other, billing and bowing. Before them, the Central Park Zoo had Georgey and Mickey, two female Gentoo penguins who tried to incubate eggs together. And Wendell and Cass, a devoted male African penguin pair, live at the New York Aquarium in Coney Island. Indeed, scientists have found homosexual behavior throughout the animal world.

This growing body of science has been increasingly drawn into charged debates about homosexuality in American society, on subjects from gay marriage to sodomy laws, despite reluctance from experts in the field to extrapolate from animals to humans. Gay groups argue that if homosexual behavior occurs in animals, it is natural, and therefore the rights of homosexuals should be protected. On the other hand, some conservative religious groups have condemned the same practices in the past, calling them "animalistic."

But if homosexuality occurs among animals, does that necessarily mean that it is natural for humans, too? And that raises a familiar question: if homosexuality is not a choice, but a result of natural forces that cannot be controlled, can it be immoral?

The open discussion of homosexual behavior in animals is relatively new. "There has been a certain cultural shyness about admitting it," said Frans de Waal, whose 1997 book, "Bonobo: The Forgotten Ape" (University of California Press), unleashed a torrent of discussion about animal sexuality. Bonobos, apes closely related to humans, are wildly energetic sexually. Studies show that whether observed in the wild or in captivity, nearly all are bisexual, and nearly half their sexual interactions are with the same sex. Female bonobos have been observed to engage in homosexual activity almost hourly.

Before his own book, "American scientists who investigated bonobos never discussed sex at all," said Mr. de Waal, director of the Living Links Center of the Yerkes Primate Center at Emory University in Atlanta. "Or they sometimes would show two females having sex together, and would say, `The females are very affectionate.' "

Then in 1999, Bruce Bagemihl published "Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity" (St. Martin's Press), one of the first books of its kind to provide an overview of scholarly studies of same-sex behavior in animals. Mr. Bagemihl said homosexual behavior had been documented in some 450 species. (Homosexuality, he says, refers to any of these behaviors between members of the same sex: long-term bonding, sexual contact, courtship displays or the rearing of young.) Last summer the book was cited by the American Psychiatric Association and other groups in a "friend of the court" brief submitted to the Supreme Court in Lawrence v. Texas, a case challenging a Texas anti-sodomy law. The court struck down the law.

"Sexual Exuberance" was also cited in 2000 by gay rights groups opposed to Ballot Measure 9, a proposed Oregon statute prohibiting teaching about homosexuality or bisexuality in public schools. The measure lost.

In his book Mr. Bagemihl describes homosexual activity in a broad spectrum of animals. He asserts that while same-sex behavior is sometimes found in captivity, it is actually seen more frequently in studies of animals in the wild.

Among birds, for instance, studies show that 10 to 15 percent of female western gulls in some populations in the wild are homosexual. Females perform courtship rituals, like tossing their heads at each other or offering small gifts of food to each other, and they establish nests together. Occasionally they mate with males and produce fertile eggs but then return to their original same-sex partners. Their bonds, too, may persist for years.

Among mammals, male and female bottlenose dolphins frequently engage in homosexual activity, both in captivity and in the wild. Homosexuality is particularly common among young male dolphin calves. One male may protect another that is resting or healing from wounds inflicted by a predator. When one partner dies, the other may search for a new male mate. Researchers have noted that in some cases same-sex behavior is more common for dolphins in captivity.

Male and female rhesus macaques, a type of monkey, also exhibit homosexuality in captivity and in the wild. Males are affectionate to each other, touching, holding and embracing. Females smack their lips at each other and play games like hide-and-seek, peek-a-boo and follow the leader. And both sexes mount members of their own sex.

Paul L. Vasey, a professor of psychology and neuroscience at the University of Lethbridge in Canada, who studies homosexual behavior in Japanese macaques, is editing a new book on homosexual behavior in animals, to be published by Cambridge University Press. This kind of behavior among animals has been observed by scientists as far back as the 1700's, but Mr. Vasey said one reason there had been few books on the topic was that "people don't want to do the research because they don't want to have suspicions raised about their sexuality."

Some scientists say homosexual behavior in animals is not necessarily about sex. Marlene Zuk, a professor of biology at the University of California at Riverside and author of "Sexual Selections: What We Can and Can't Learn About Sex From Animals" (University of California Press, 2002), notes that scientists have speculated that homosexuality may have an evolutionary purpose, ensuring the survival of the species. By not producing their own offspring, homosexuals may help support or nurture their relatives' young. "That is a contribution to the gene pool," she said.

For Janet Mann, a professor of biology and psychology at Georgetown University, who has studied same-sex behavior in dolphin calves, their homosexuality "is about bond formation," she said, "not about being sexual for life."

She said that studies showed that adult male dolphins formed long-term alliances, sometimes in large groups. As adults, they cooperate to entice a single female and keep other males from her. Sometimes they share the female, or they may cooperate to help one male. "Male-male cooperation is extremely important," Ms. Mann said. The homosexual behavior of the young calves "could be practicing" for that later, crucial adult period, she added.

But, scientists say, just because homosexuality is observed in animals doesn't mean that it is only genetically based. "Homosexuality is extraordinarily complex and variable," Mr. Bagemihl said. "We look at animals as pure biology and pure genetics, and they are not." He noted that "the occurrence of same-sex behavior in animals provides support for the nurture side as well." He cited as an example the ruff, a type of Arctic sandpiper. There are four different classes of male ruffs, each differing from the others genetically. The two that differ most from each other are most similar in their homosexual behaviors.

Ms. Zuk said, "You have inclinations that are more or less supported by our genes and in some environmental circumstances get expressed." She used the analogy of right- or left-handedness, thought to be genetically based. "But you can teach naturally left-handed children to use their right hand," she pointed out.

PART II:

Still, scientists warn about drawing conclusions about humans. "For some people, what animals do is a yardstick of what is and isn't natural," Mr. Vasey said. "They make a leap from saying if it's natural, it's morally and ethically desirable."

But he added: "Infanticide is widespread in the animal kingdom. To jump from that to say it is desirable makes no sense. We shouldn't be using animals to craft moral and social policies for the kinds of human societies we want to live in. Animals don't take care of the elderly. I don't particularly think that should be a platform for closing down nursing homes."

Mr. Bagemihl is also wary of extrapolating. "In Nazi Germany, one very common interpretation of homosexuality was that it was animalistic behavior, subhuman," he said.

What the animal studies do show, Ms. Zuk observed, is that "sexuality is a lot broader term than people want to think."

"You have this idea that the animal kingdom is strict, old-fashioned Roman Catholic," she said, "that they have sex just to procreate."

In bonobos, she noted, "you see expressions of sex outside the period when females are fertile. Suddenly you are beginning to see that sex is not necessarily about reproduction."

"Sexual expression means more than making babies," Ms. Zuk said. "Why are we surprised? People are animals."

^
That article is from the New York Times.
I didn't post the link because it wont let you access unless you're registered.

any condition - in this cause, being gay - is either a result of surroundings.... the environment you are brought up in - or genetic - your genes>chromosomes>dna which define characteristics.

based on the fact that some animals are gay, i would have to say that it could be genetic HOWEVER, that does not mean environmental issues do not affect this. for example, there must be some IDENTICAL TWINS with IDENTICAL GENES where one of them is gay. Being gay is something you chose, really. you may be male with lots of female hormones, causing gay attractions, but you still act straight due to your surroundings, meaning its not REALLY genetic

I'm not picking on you , but thats not exactly true either - most animals feel pleasure during sex - it's the driving force. Humans, dolphins and some monkeys are the only animals (that we are aware of) that engage in sex outside the point in a females cycle where she can become pregnant.

Im so tired of arguing about this already.

Some people will believe what they believe no matter what evidence are given. Its easy to believe what you want to hear, and very easy to question what you dont want to.

Why would people choose to lead a lifestyle where they are being discriminated against...

end of the day, whatever floats your boat, I guess boat

this one time i saw to guy dogs doing it

I never said no other animal feels pleasure when having sex? When did i say that? Pigs orgasm lasts 30 minutes....

not everybody acts straight though, gay and proud, thats how my brother goes... and his friend is just 'will and grace' as much as one would support this or detest it, you cannot do a thing, not politically not lawfully (apart from some countries ) and not scientifically, so jus let them be straight, gay or bisexual.

Its kind of hard when you're trying to float your boat and you have people trying to sink you in the name of Jesus!

2gunsrifleboat

There is a world of difference between being the only species to have sex for pleasure and being the species that can have sex ONLY for pleasure.