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In ANH, Obi Wan tells Luke that his father wanted him to have the lightsaber. So Anakin knows that Padme was having a boy? And does that mean that he told Obi that he had plans on his kid being a Jedi?

probably OB1 just told this from his own point of view

I think he was just telling a lie... He slayed Ani and grabbed the lightsaber.

i think ben was lying

In my opinon as well, Ben was lying. I don't see where or how Anakin could tell Obi-Wan to give Luke his lightsber. Surely he wouldn't say this as he's falling. Maybe they'll be some long scene before he falls, and they share some last dialogue with one another with Anakin knowing he's about to die, but I don't know.

and after a certain other lie *cough*murdered your father*cough* in that same conversation, i think ben's credability was damaged...

It's entirely consistent with what he was saying. Anakin Skywalker WOULD have wanted his son to have his lightsabre- simple as that.

Ben's a serial liar.

For all we know, Obi-Wan may accidentally kill Mace (he trips and his lightsaber goes through Mace's head) - and all Obi-Wan does is say:

"It was him" *points to Anakin*

I wouldn't be surprised if that con-artist Ben is the cause of the Empire.

He was too old to remember anything. He just tells the boy a load of BS because he has nothing to do.

Alzheimer is his second name

I'm beginning to think you guys are right on this subject. Although I feel there should be some scene in ROTS that justifies what Obi Wan said.

"He betrayed, and murderred your father"

That could be true, maybe Anakin takes one look in the mirror and says "I hate you, now I shall betray" and leaps into a furnace.

but its not, he sayed "your father wanted you to have this..."
of coarse anakin would have wanted luke to have the saber,
but what ben said implies that anakin knew he had a son, and instructed
ben to give him the saber, big difference.

Exactly.

I KNOW that's not what he said, but it is what is SO. So Obi-Wan was not lying in any way when he is allegorising Anakin as dead.

Obi-Wan also could have been conveying a sentiment Anakin related to him prior to his crossing over, but then I guess that would expose his forbidden marriage to Padme......hmmm

just a thought but since anakin apparently knows padme is pregnant,i dont think it makes a difference if it was a boy or girl,but the child would be taught the ways of the jedi,i think obi-wan picks up anakins lightsabre for sentimental value,then as he finds out its a boy obi-wan feels its the thing to do,for the same purpose of sentimental value,obi-wan in a way gives luke a sort of purpose becouse ben knows luke is a good pilot and feels the force in luke,though luke cannot,so i guess what i'm saying is that ben gives luke his fathers lightsabre and tells him his father would of wanted you to have this,is to give luke some insight of who his father is and the power luke has,although at that moment luke is skeptic,i think this could be the same case if leia were in lukes place...

Maybe anakin tells padme that he wants to keep his first lightsaber to his children early on the movie, before the dark events take place. Then, when obi1 returns from hell just with the saber of his former padawan, Padme tells the truth to obi, and recalls the first wish of his dead husband.

or mabey obi-wan gives padme the lightsabre,and as she dies obi-wan chooses to give the lightsabre to luke,becouse i believe it is obi's idea to take young luke to owen and beru....

I think the answer is that simple...if Anakin knew that he had a son, ofc he'd want him to have his lightsaber.

exactly spearhead.
obi-wan still sees the good in anakin and i expect that he likes to remember anakin as his good friend rather than him as the evil darth vader

I wonder if Anakin made it solely for Luke, because it doesn't look like the same one he will use in Episode III to me. And it's the only lightsaber I've seen with that color.....

I've seen a pic from the duel, Anakin has wicked look on his face and he has a saber raised upward but it's not ignited and it's in front of a blue screen, the hilt looks somewhat like the saber Luke gets in ANH.

its certainly the same one... there may just be a few inconsistancies as usual

Yeah, as with each movie, they make some modifications to the hilts a bit.

anakin knew that padme was pregnant, so he made plans for his son to join the ranks of the jedi, but since the other jedi don't know that he's having an affair with her, they wouldn't know it's his child, they'll just think that luke is the one and not anakin (cuz anakin sux and all). then anakin spills his guts to OB1, but OB1 threatens to tell the council of anakin's betrayal to the Jedi Order, so anakin and OB1 start his 14 min duel that spans a lot of backdrops.

i dont think thats how its going to go, i have a feeling it will be padme herself who confides in obi-wan about her relationship with anakin and obi-wan and informs him of anakins wherabouts,
obi-wan seeks him out and they duel,

just a hunch!

I believe that after Anakin hurts Padme in front of Obi-Wan, that's what triggers their duel.

i guess im missing your point about the statement "your father wanted you to have this". imho, a sentence such as that is not subject to POV, such as was vader murdering anakin.

the fact is, when the film was made, vader DID betray and murder anakin, not through POV, but literally in every way. anakin and vader were seperate jedi, and anakin never turned evil. he knew of his son, and sometime before he died he requested that luke get his lightsaber. then GL decided that vader WAS anakin. which makes for a sticky situation. GL weasled his way out of most of the hole created through ben's POV speach in ep6. but i fail to see how this line cannot be considered a hole, an insignificant one, but still a line which makes no sence...unless GL decides to alter the line, or decide that ben was lying.

the line works very well, PVS

Anakin wanted his offspring, if he ever had those, not having a miserable life on a stupid planet while being a slafe or whatever, he wanted them to have a good life, one they would enjoy

luke was kept on a very short leach by Owen, had to work, couldn't go out much (if only Owen let him do that, the whole Tosche Station nagging wouldn't be in the movie ); so OB1 offered him the life Anakin wanted his offspring to have: a better one

you don't tell little kids there's no santa claus....lying's not always malicious....

also, i was under the impression that lucas knew from the start that vader was luke's father.....there are so many hints in ep IV that i'm almost surprised we didn't all guess it at the time....you know, in a film if someone's watching tv and it suddenly cuts to a knife on the kitchen counter, you know something's gonna happen with the knife....i see a lot of that in ep IV in regards to vader....and a connection has even been made to the name darth vader/ dark father....i'm pretty sure it was an official source (maybe a documentary).....

vader/father was never an official confirmation

fair enough (can't even remember where i heard that)....but there's still loads of other filmic hints throughout the movie.....

the question is how long before owen lars told luke about his father after obi-wan had given him to them.

oh, i don't know how the hell we'd be able to work that one out....

i guess luke's been on at them since he got curious about his father as a child.....

look, its a non-truth however you look at it.
there is no room for POV, there is no split personality
with one figuratively 'murdering' the other.
the line is what it is. it states something that never was.

look, it matters little to me, since its quite a small enough plot hole to deal with. but lets call it like it is. santa clause type little white lie...whatever, its still not the truth. no malicious intent? agreed, but its still not the truth.

Well what could he have said otherwise?

'luke, i killed your father and took his lightsabre, now you can have it'

yeah, it's not a plot hole....it's characterisation....obi wan's diplomatic....

See, I'm stupid, so if I had been Obi-Wan, I would've said:
"Luke, I killed your father and took his lightsaber. Now you can have it."

lol That wouldn't have helped Luke's situation.

Exactly

'Luke, i killed your dad, now you can help me kill him again'

Agreeing with QUIRO 72, 2 things in ep4 that made me think vader was always luke's father.

Aunt beru: "Luke's just not a farmer Owen, he has too much of his father in him"

Owen:" That's what I'm afraid of"

could be explained by anakin(not vader) dying as a jedi

but...

remember obi wan:

"He was the best starpilot in the galaxy..." looks like he remebers a battle or something kind of proud...
"and he was a cunning warrior"...has almost a little sneer or glare in his eye, like he knew damn well how good anakin could fight...
"and he was a good friend..." obi is sad, thoughtfull, but..DISTRACTED,
he looks away absent mindedly, and goes on about the lightsaber, in my opionion, because he has just remembered all of the events that we have seen take place, looks up and remembers Luke, which is the completion of his "quest", I suppose.

Also, when Luke asks how his father died, notice ben hesitates, just for a moment or so, takes a breath, and tells him that the young jedi named darth vader, who was his student, then turned to evil helped palps hunt down all jedi's. THEN he throws in the crap about he betrayed and murdered your father.

Even more important, the next line:"vader was seduced by the dark side of the force" Ben gets stuck again, and, again luke brings him out of it, to ask about what the force is. and you can see that ben kind of forces a smile, and starts to explain things to Luke.
Might just be me, but that scene had alot of meaning, IN 1977.

That is one of the best scenes of the series as well, or at least has a lot of importance. That is where the story begins to take shape.

no, im just saying accept that ben wasnt telling the truth, or it is a plot hole.
had he said "your father WOULD have wanted you to have this" it would be the truth.

its not a bad thing, ben HAD to lie about it.
the TRUTH was that anakin never knew he had a son.

how can it be any more obvious
(unless we are in for a huge surprise in ep3)

I very much fail to see how you can even possible think there is no room for POV!

there is PLENTY of room for it! it's even explained in ROTJ! Anakin seized to exist when Vader took over, that's his POV and for him it's darn right

you're arguing the wrong point. i agree with the POV thing when it comes to vader murdering anakin, so in that respect you are preaching to the choire.

but the fact that anakin had no idea of any offspring (that survived) solidifies that statement.

but hey, we're just dancing around in a circle here, so i guess we agree to disagree, right?

edit> i did call it a "lie" in the first post, but that was a half-joke. however, it still shows that ben wansn't exactly spilling the beans to luke.

yeah, ben was flat out lying....he didn't want to freak luke out....but that doesn't mean anakin never knew he had a son....anakin wasn't in the scene with luke and obi wan....it bears no relation to his knowledge of having a son.....

anakin turns evil, attacks padme, and from then on thinks he killed her and his offspring. at least that is what we are all lead to beleive. if that is the case, then it is true that anakin has no knowledge of luke in ep 3 & 4.

if you want to argue that, you may as well open another thread, because a debate has been raging on that very topic at TF.Net for like 8 months and like 6000 posts. i beleive it is very possible, but until i see it, i accept the opposing view, that anakin knows nothing of luke.

That's a good point.

oh, i don't visit tfn forums.....what i'm saying is anakin "thinks" his child must have died, the same way tarkin "thinks" obi wan must have died after all that time....but anakin senses something as soon as he sees luke on the death star....when he lumbers over towards him as the door's closing.....he starts to realise....but deep down he probably always kind of sensed something....he is the chosen one....he can feel his mother being tortured on the other side of the galaxy....

I heard that anakin, in the vader suit delivers luke



SS would be proud of that one

Does he suckle?....

Something else that comes into play too is remember when Luke is talking with Obi-Wan's ghost in ROTJ, Luke is asking "why didn't you tell me". A moment later Obi-Wan mentions Luke's sister, and how she was hidden at birth for their protection. So I think it's a likely possibility Vader was nearby for the birth, but was only made known of Luke....

Super Shadow suckles him, he plays a giant nipple just like in real life

this type of post is getting mighty gross boys

This might've been said, I didn't want to read the whole topic.

What if Vader knows about Luke, but not Leia? Therefore, he taunts Obi-wan by saying "Give this to my son, when he's old enough." Sort of a "I'll come for him, too" thing.

I believe Vader or Anakin knows that Luke exists or died along with Padme. If she dies.

isn't it better than to give the lightsabre to Leia immediatly? train her, since he knows about luke?

only thing that had to happen then was Yoda telling OB1 they're related

It's a good idea, but I don't think many little boys in the 70's and 80's would be interested in a female Jedi.

I would! I think the handling of the twins is kinda sexist cause vader knows nothing of leia till luke drops his guard in ROTJ and she could have been used in yoda and obi's plan more

Twi'lek... Aayla Secura... I would love it!

yep, she gets my vote too

I agree with Mortanius. LITTLE BOYS would not have wanted that . But BIG LITTLE BOYS would have!!!!