The prime of anakin skywalker

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master harmax
According to Obi Wan : Anakin was the best starpilot in the galaxy, exceptionally strong with the force, a cunning warrior, and a good friend.

According to Yoda : Anakin was a "powerful jedi" ( ESB )

In ANH, in the scene where the rebel pilots are preparing to take off to attack the approaching death star, one of the senior fighters tells Luke, that if he is half as good as his Father, he will do all right.

So what I'm wondering is .... just when are we going to see all this ? Because, from whatever we know of Ep.2 we aren't really going to see the prime of anakin skywalker before his fall from grace ... we will probably see him do some cool stuff in the chase on Coruscant ... but leaving that aside, hardly anything else ... in fact what we ARE going to see is him getting shellacked by Count Dooku.

And obviously, a large portion of Ep.3 will be devoted to showing the actual fall of anakin and from what I know, Darth Vader is going to return ( with James Earl Jones doing the vo's and all ).

So I don't know just WHERE and WHEN we will see Anakin, the best pilot in the galaxy, powerful jedi, cunning warrior, good friend etc.etc.... i.e. the prime of anakin skywalker.

or for that matter even IF .... because another important issue that will have to be resolved in Ep.3, is, how did Yoda and Obi Wan manage to survive the jedi purge, and evade Darth Vader, with Darth Sidious and the imperial army behind him. And between Anakin's fall and the afore mentioned loose end ( and also other important things ), i fail to see where there is time to show anakin as a powerful jedi knight and the best pilot ... as of now, at the end of Ep.2 he is still very much a padawan ... and a rather badly defeated one at that.

Ushgarak
Right time is indeed a big problem; in the end all we can do is see what they can fit into ep.iii (with Vader only playing an absolutely tiny role if he does appear).

jedi fernando

Ushgarak
All that is fair enough, but I do understand Harmax's basic point; from Obi-Wan's basic description of Anakin we might have expected to see rather a lot more of these skills than it seems will happen.

He-Man
Hey hey hey. You're all forgetting that Anakin destroyed the droid control ship. That definetly made everybody think his a great pilot even more than just the podrace.

And there is a ten years time between ep I and II and we don't know what has happened during that time. Ani and Ob1 can be good friends but we don't see that kind of stuff on the films.

JediOasis
Exacxtly, I'm sure after the battle of naboo Anakin became well known for destorying the droid control ship, plus the podrace and in EPII we see the chase through Coruscant. And from what we know of his fight at the end is that Obi-Wan gets his stuff handed to him as well and Anakin doesnt die against one of the greatest wielders of the lightsaber in the galaxy and he's only a padawan, so thats something. Obviously the Jedi Council thinks enough of his ability by assigning him to protect Padme.

master harmax
All that's well and good ...

All I'm saying is, in the OT, by Yoda's and Obi Wan's description, Anakin was made out to be an exceptionally brilliant jedi before his fall to the dark side ...

Upto now, ( and that includes AOTC ), what we've seen is a potentially brilliant jedi, and an exceptional padawan - the pod race, the exploit of blowing up the droid control ship, the chase through coruscant -

but what we havent' seen in TPM ( obviously ), and what we are NOT going to see in AOTC ( by the looks of it so far ) is an exceptionally brilliant jedi ... in fact I think in AOTC, the emphasis is going to be more on Anakin's weaknesses, emotional as well as in his abilities as a jedi, rather than on his brilliance ...

which is fine ... nothing wrong with that ...

but, i just thought it might be nice, or, in fact neccessary to also show his greatness, in action, as well ... not just by words, by telling us that he's got the highest midiclorean count, and he's the chosen one etc.etc. - which hasn't come out so far, either in TPM, which doesn't count because that's the movie with him as a really young boy - or, in AOTC, from whatever we know of the spoilers ... just to justify the way he's been built up in the OT.


Which leaves Ep.3 - and that's going to be all about his fall mainly -

thus we come to my point = we haven't seen the prime of anakin skywalker, "powerful jedi" in the words of yoda - and by the looks of it, we might never ...

LanceWindu
Just because we don't see his brilliantness doesn't mean that he isn't great. GL has to show his youth and his fall, he can't show everything in between.

Ushgarak
We are still seeing less than we might have expected to, though, that's the thing. And I am VERY surprised than Anakin does not do any star fighting in this film. After being so clearly referred to as the greatest star pilot in the galaxy and everything...

In Episode one he accidentally destroyed the DCS, not the thing legends are made of.

LanceWindu
But did Anakin ever tell anybody that is what an accident that he destroyed the DCS?

Ushgarak
That's not really the point; we have to eqaute on-screen to what we hear in ANH and ROTJ, and it is simply surprising that we will have to wait until episode three to see his famous starfighter talents in action.

jedi212guy
Doesn't podracing and the chase scene count? Remember, other humans can fly ships in space, but Anakin is the ONLY human who can podrace. I thought that was the whole point of putting that in TPM.

Ushgarak
He was called a STAR pilot; the whole podracing thing showed he was precocious but it is hardly the same, by a long shot.

Look, he hasn't shot down a single enemy fighter! When someone has a legend as being the greatest star pilot ever you expect to see him kicking some butt in space!

Julie
I say we all wait until Aotc and then decide if we get to see Mr. Chosen one at his bestwink

Ushgarak
Err... let;s just say we have good reason to beleive he does no starfighting in AOTC; he's impressive but still a Padawan.

master harmax
Exactly my point ...

I never meant to say, that just because we haven't seen his greatness in action, he's not great ... of course he's great and exceptional. That's his character !

But what I meant to say was, since he WAS built up to be this great jedi DUDE and all that, and that was reinforced in TPM with things like the highest midichlorean count and the chosen one and all that ... it would have been opportune perhaps to have brought that out in ep.2 = to actually show Anakin kick some serious ass - especially as a star pilot warrior, because he is the " best star pilot in the galaxy ", also that rebel warrior telling luke in ANH that if he did half as well as his father, he should do ok.

And pod racing like Ush says, shows the potential genius of a young boy prodigy - ditto the blowing up of the droid control ship, in which their WAS some degree of luck involved.

Julie
I agree that TPM did not emphasize Anakin's greatness, but just as you said...he was a little boy then...this is 10 yrs later.

No starfighting in AotC for Anakin...so sad.....sad

master harmax
Yeah - especially considering his status as the best starpilot in the galaxy !

Julie
True........Luke was supposed to be good too.....and we don't see him making that many kills....perhaps Anakin get his share of kills and fancy flying in EpIII?

Ushgarak
Well, I would assume so. Which brings it back around to Harmax's basic point, that we don't actually see Anakin at his prime for very long!

Which is a shame.

jedi212guy
OB1 could after all be saying things "from a certain point of view."

master harmax
would u care to elaborate ?
confused

yerssot
it's a phrase not many of these boards like...

master harmax
Hello yerss !!! How goes it ?

Ok let me understand this ... you've gone from being " banned " to being " on trial " .....

What's up dude ?!!! Which bank did u rob ?!!! big grin

Julie
Yerssot's been a bad Boy stick out tongue

Ushgarak
Whhat yerssot means, Harmax, isd that some people have got it into their heads that just because Obi-Wan doid nopt tell the full truth about Anakin (which was a very wise trhing to do), he is therefore a liar who uses the phrase 'from a certain point of view' to cover his lies. Which is complete nonsense.

yerssot
From your point of view

Julie
roll eyes (sarcastic) You are a big trouble maker!

yerssot
Watch your mouth kid, or you find yourself floating home wink

Julie
*innocent look*
"Who me?"

yerssot
The ability to speak does not make you inteligent

Julie
"but...but mesa doa nothing!"

yerssot
Let's keep it that way

Julie
*hits Yerssot with mah's EU purple lightsaber*
That was for your lack of faith

mah
yeah!

yerssot
*uses a Force bulb to deflect the attack*
The lightsabre is insignificant, next to the power of the force

master harmax
Never mind anakin ... i wonder if, at this rate, we'll ever get to see the prime of yerrsot !!
wink

yerssot
I have no prime, I'm just good

master harmax
Yerss, I'm just in telepathic communication with Obi Wan Kenobi, and he asks me to give u this message :

Obi Wan to Yerssot : " Are u calling me a liar ?!! .... " big grin

Julie
Yerssot needs to have some humility beaten into him wink

yerssot
Bring it on, I prefer a straight fight!
http://www.smilies.nl/rough/fal.gif

Julie
awwww isn't that the cutest picture you've ever seen wink

master harmax
I bet that's just how yerrsot looks in real life ...

One of the things I really liked about the trailer ...

the coruscant chase scene ... anakin's shown to be an exceptionally bold and flamboyant jedi ... and cocky because of his special abilities as well ...

I trip on that !
wink

yerssot
in real life, I'm even cuter!

Great pilot Anakin is smile

master harmax
I found one scene particularly tantalizing ... especially in view of what we've known of the spoilers so far ...

Count Dooku : " Join me Obi Wan .... together we can destroy the sith "

Seems to me Lucas has a few cunning tricks up his sleeve that we don't know about.

eek!

yerssot
just to get OB1 to the dark side, I'm sure...

Julie
yes those sith and rogue jedi's can both be crafty

yerssot
as far as cannon sources, rogue jedi aren't existing

Ushgarak
That's completely wrong; on the idea that no-one thinks Dooku is a Sith then HE is a rogue Jedi. All of these 'lost 20' must be considered rogues.

yerssot
The scene where they discuss the "lost 20" has been taken out of the movie since December.
They simple don't exist anymore

Ushgarak
Then Dooku is still a Rogue after having left the Order. The concept DOES exist.

Besides which you can always term a 'Rogue' Jedi as someone like Qui-Gon who still considers himself a Jedi but does not follow the code.

Actually, if you are telling me that this scene has been 'taken out' I'd probably question at this point if it ever existed.

yerssot
don't shoot me, shoot swmovies.net who posted it, and TF.N and Aldera.net...

and it's Rogue as in, leaving the order, otherwhise it's not with the Sith.

As long as they don't tell it, it does not exist

Ushgarak
Who says a Rogue HAS to have left the Order? You could VERY easily describe Qui-Gon as a Rogue.

And the point STILL remains that Dooku is a Jedi who left the Order. No-one knew he was a Sith so therefore everyone thought we was a Rogue.

Hence they DO exist, in canon.

yerssot
And that scene has been cut out of the movie

Ushgarak
Oh, what, you still think Dooku is IN the Order, do you? Don't be silly! He is fighting the Republic, Sith or otherwise he is clearly a Rogue!

You can be VERY obtuse sometimes, yerssot.

yerssot
You don't listen! *sob*

It's not even said he is IN the Order, nor said he LEFT the order!

Ushgarak
But we have a dozen other lines which say he is in the Order! About him being an old friend of Windu's and Qui-Gon's Master and Yoda's apprentice and taunting Yoda about how now his powers are the greater and so on.

Is this ALL on the junk heap, hmm?

yerssot
have you seen the movie?

Ushgarak
Hey, YOU are the one who spends most of his life posting spoilers like that! These are all from the same sources.

Besides which, nopone has said the whole scene in which Dooku is said to have left the Order has been cut, just the line about the lost 20.

yerssot
yeah, and spoilers aren't cannon
they can always be wrong
Like perhaps Dooku is a good guy who accidently has a red sabre, therefor Anakin and OB1 thinks he's a baddie

Ushgarak
Well, there is acknowledging that they can be wrong, and there is just being silly...

We still have plenty of reason at this point to think that Dooku is an ex-Jedi, and I still consider Qui-Gon to be a Rogue.

yerssot
well, about QGJ, the only way to change your mind is to hit you with a pan...

It's all still uncertain about Dooku, what if GL changes it all tomorrow?

master harmax
The thing is ...
right up until i saw the trailer, i was expecting after having read all the spoilers, that Dooku would be a rogue jedi, TURNED sith ...
after having left the jedi order. That he would be the next Sith Lord ...

However, after having seen the trailer, I'm not sure ...
it's a cunning one ... the implications of a line like " Join me Obi Wan .... together we can destroy the sith " can be many.

A really exciting variation is : He is NOT a sith lord ... he IS a rogue jedi, having left the order, because of whatever reasons ( probably to do with the way his former padawan Qui Gon died )

but at the same time ... he is not working for the dark side either ... he represents only himself and his own interests ... and wants to get Obi Wan to help him realize his ambitions ...

I know I'm sounding vague ... and this line of speculation is probably highly unlikely ... but it IS theoretically possible ...
it just has to be resolved properly in context of what we know of the story line from the spoilers ...

I can't wait to see the movie to see exactly what Dooku is all about ... and this is because of that one line of Count Dooku's in the trailer " Join me Obi Wan, we can destroy the sith "

Point : It's a helluva good trailer

And it will be a helluva good movie too !

Ushgarak
GL is hardly like to change his mind about major plot points at this stage, yerss.

yerssot
that's your opinion... everything can change...

Julie
to use a sports analogy....it's a bit late in the game to change the game plan wink

Ushgarak
It's more than just an opinion, yerss, it is basic common sense.

yerssot
no, they can still change it, ok, very unlickly

Ushgarak
I mean, they have already FINISHED two reels! To change things drastically now would be absurd!

Julie
what's all this stuff about changes......why would we or anybody want changes this late?????

yerssot
Absurd... yes... impossble... no... going to happen ... no

mah
ah, you've lost this one too, yerss.

yerssot
it's still possible but it's not going to happen

master harmax
Ok .... how about this one :

Dooku wants to be the master sith himself. But he needs help to kill sideous ... he can't do it himself : so he approaches Obi Wan : " Join me Obi Wan, togerther we can destroy the sith"; his plan : Eliminate his master Darth Sideous with Obi Wan's help; having done so, reveal to Obi Wan that he himself has been studying the ways of the dark side since the 10 years that he left the jedi order, and now, after sideous's death, he is the master sith lord ...
and then he would try to entice Obi Wan with a the promise of great power etc. to be his sith apprentice. If Obi Wan agrees well and good; if he doesn't, he eliminates Obi Wan because Obi Wan is no match for Dooku. This is his plan, when he approaces Obi Wan with the question : Join me Obi Wan - together we can destroy the sith.

I know all this is farfetched speculation, based on cirumstancial evidence, and lacking in hard backup data; but it's an exciting possibility !

finti
not that far fetched

jedi fernando

jedi fernando
oh and one question...

if anakin does what is forbiden for jedis and marries and has sex would that make him a rogue?

yerssot
no, that would make him lucky wink

Julie
I don't get the whole rules about not marrying...when did that come about?

yerssot
marry someone = love

"there is no emotion, there is peace" (I think that's 1/2 of the explanation)

Amidala
It is all a massive con job, GL has done it before, if you are old enough to remember the trailers and posters for ROTJ. All you see is luke in black standing side by side with vader. This gives you the impression he has turned.

The whole point of the sith is to trick people into thinking things that are not true, they rule by manipulation not by attacking. Palpatine is the greatest manipulator of people i have seen, if the prequels do anything they have proven that Palpatine is the puppet master of the galaxy.

He gets Dooku to say 'join me to destroy the sith' or whatever he says to Obi1 in order for Obi1 to think that he has the interests of the republic at heart rather than his masters. If ob1 thought that dooku was a sith lord on his masters orders creating clone armies it would make it obvious that the chancellor was the sith master when the chancellor keeps pushing for their use. Palpatine is pushing for clones a lot i think in this one and he uses his apprentice to give the senate reason enough to grant him speacial powers. Remember Dooku is the leader of the separatsits mentioned in the tralier. It is the old start a fire and put it out yourself routine to make yourself seem the hero or to to break down democracy just enough to get the use of emergency powers ( i think GL reads his 1930's german history books ). The irony of this one is that he uses the threat of his creation to further gain power in the senate. I think people missed the beauty of that in TPM. oh well.

Bye the way - i have the feeling that Yoda knows who the Sith Master is when he says 'begun the clone war has'. He knows that the jedi are now the outcasts in the republic and that they will have to fight the clones to save themselves against the new order.

wait and see. GL has been setting this one up with an eye to history.

master harmax
That piece of speculation is probably the most likely to come true ... about count dooku and palpatine ...

another very interesting part of the trailer was when anakin and palpatine are together, and palpatine tell him : " You don't need guidance anakin ... i percieve you will become the strongest jedi ever ."

Julie
You gotta love lines like that wink

master harmax
Yeah .... I had a creepy feeling when I saw that scene ....

And another thing is ... apropos this thread ...

I really liked the coruscant chase scene ... when Anakin jumps out of the speeder ... the scene conveys that this guy is uncommonly gifted .... and he knows it. Somehow, most guys looking at the movie, ( including myself ! wink ) would fantasize about being like Anakin ... uniquely powerful and talented .... flamboyant .... capable of doing things very few others can even dream of ...

And I also liked the cocky part of his personality ... the fact that he knows he is good .... in fact exceptional ... and that he likes to flaunt it.

And all that makes his fall much more poignant ... to see a young man with so much potential go down like that. That is true to real life too ... it happens with many people .... gifted and unique in the young age / prime ... and then somewhere along the way through life, they lose the way.

Because, had Anakin not fallen to the darkside, he WOULD have been the most powerful jedi ever. And the fact that this did not come to pass because of Palpatine's cunning .....

It's the bittersweet stuff like this, that I love about Star Wars.

yerssot
I don't like it when he uses the levitation! It's making the scene rediculous sad

master harmax
Well u know ... like I said ... Anakin before his fall was supposed to be a great and powerful jedi, specially brilliant ... and that I was concerned that this may not be brought out or highlighted enough in this and the next star wars movie ... so any scene that DOES bring out his brilliance ... I like.

yerssot
yes, but I think they got over the limite with this one

master harmax
Well Yerss - to repeat the line, on which by now I'm sure you have the patent AND the copyright :

" He's the chosen one, u must see ! " cool

yerssot
indeed he is, no doubts there

But the problem for me is that there is a difference between being the Chosen One and filming something absurd

master harmax
That's WHY he's the chosen one ... get the hits in the starting going into th bridge - and doing the stuff that for everyone else is impossible !

yerssot
yes, only the Chosen One can do that

Julie
He Is the chosen one.....you must see it wink ....I believe we've collectively killed the matter big grin

master harmax
I just hope that overall in the movie, Anakin comes out as a brash young jedi, with special gifts ... u know ? as in, he should look and come out powerful and tough .... I hope he doesn't come out totally as a shy chocolate boy !!.... ladies man !! etc.etc....

Although that doesn't mean I'm not looking forward to the romantic angle in this movie wink

I just hope the soft side of his personality isn't overdone too much that's all ....
Although such an approach might lose a few brownie points with the female contingent !

yerssot
they will succeed, I'm sure!

master harmax
I hope so ... smile

Emperor Helmet
He's an arrogant punk, like the High-School starting Quarterback.

master harmax
He is an arrogant punk .... but he can be that, because he has all these unique gifts, and he can do all this flamboyant stuff nobody else can do ... so yeah !! I like the part about Anakin being cocky !!

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