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OB1-adobe
I was lookin at the Episode III reviews on amazon.com and some guy named Ryan Lockwood had this to say:

"George Lucas clearly did not make the original Trilogy because the most recent incarnations of Star Wars are not only the worst in the series, they are the worst movies ever made.

If you don't agree with what I'm saying, ask yourself this question: "If this movie wasn't based in the Star Wars universe, would I still think it's so great?" Clearly the answer is no. These movies are terrible and George Lucas should be dragged into the street and shot."


Well If I tried to imagine watching Star Wars for the first time by watching episode 1 first, would I still like it? Well yeah I think so. It still has more imagination than Dude Wheres My Car, and could be argued to be better than The Matrix Trilogy. Why would I, and probably many more would still like it.

2 Words: Light Saber

That weapon, and the duels alone will make you interested in watching the whole saga. Also no other sci-fi movie will ever use a laser sword, and if they did, they are only doing a comedic parody. Believe it or not Star Wars has never been a great emotional expierences from great actors, instead they have basically always been great eye candy, and entertainment with an amazing story and great characters in a fantastic world. And episode I has all of that, if you think about it.

I have always been interested in finding out how future generations will look at these films. Mainly because they will have a different outlook, and I think their opinions will be more honest, and not so much biased like Ryan Lockwood's.

Darth_Duffy
he should be shot

smoker4
Who?

PVS
whats wrong with this moron?

he says the PT are the worst movies ever made, then compliments episode 1.

why even post this nonsense?

Darth Cain
Some people thrive on negativity. They crave it.....

There some things here and there that could have been better with these movies, but the main story is interesting.

waynerobsonuk
looks like the reviewers are getting walmed up already to trash ep3 when it comes out no matter how good it is sad
I just hope they give it a chance and not load every review with mentioning how 'awful' the other prequels were (but why dont I think that is going to happen???)

Wayne..

queeq
He says it's the best eye candy ever, but the worst movies.... Hmmm, sounds arguable. evil face

PVS
its just a silly review, pointless to even ponder it.
if it brought up any points, i would say different, regardless of their opinion.

Darth Cain
The thing to remember is that none of the Star Wars have ever gotten great reviews that I can recall.

queeq
How... neutral of you. big grin

PVS
well, im willing to lend an ear to a well thought out arguement.

this is just mindless rambling though.

i feel like i've lost some braincells just from reading it.

zutalurs
Hey folks. Read what's being "QUOTED" and what's the original poster's own words. Adobe QUOTED (it's a little thing that happens when you use these signals,", to indicate something someone else has said or written) the bad review and then went on to defend Episode 1 with his/her own comments about the laser swords and the eye candy.

Learn to read and maybe we won't have so many trolls fighting all over the place.

smoker4
A review with no meaning! how could you take it out of its setting?? hmm how errrr interesting, it seems to be the fashion for reviewers to slate star wars, this ryan guy should have at least thought about what he was going to write and maybe use constructive criticism? smokin'

darktim1
he was jst posting his opinion because he probibley not even a starwars fan hell if I met him I probibley punch in the face because if george lucas had'nt made ILM we would'nt have most of movies we have today so he really should rethink who he is talking about.

smoker4
A review with no meaning! how could you take it out of its setting?? hmm how errrr interesting, it seems to be the fashion for reviewers to slate star wars, this ryan guy should have at least thought about what he was going to write and maybe use constructive criticism? smokin'

PVS
whatever ther case, there are no trolls on this thread.
nobody is bashing adobe. no need for anyone to be put in their place here.

i misunderstood, is that a criminal act?

smoker4
Negative on the troll front, wasnt havin a go at adobe just the reviewer

zutalurs
Calling him a moron for YOUR mistake? Sounds like bashing to me.

PVS
i was referring to the reviewer, seems like you should follow
your own advice.

and furthermore, a patronising tone like the one you take, instructing me on what quotation marks are, are insulting.

so is telling someone to learn to read.

just a pointer

zutalurs
If you actually read the review that was posted, you would see that the original reviewer, i.e. Ryan, never complimented Episode 1, but only bashed it and said it was thought great due to it's association with the SW franchise.
Therefore, you back-tracking now is obviously a lie.
Admit you made a mistake and stop being so defensive. How hard is it to apologize to someone and admit you were wrong?

zutalurs
Hmm, I don't recall addressing you in particular or by name. Yet obviously you assumed I was referencing you.

Why is that? Guilty conscience?

PVS
ok, you are obviously picking a fight.

you quoted me remember!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

here, allow me to refresh your memory:

""Calling him a moron for YOUR mistake? Sounds like bashing to me."



but whatever forget it, have your fun with someone else

zutalurs
Series of events PVS. I didn't quote you until after your initial reply. In my response to your reply, I made no mention of quotation marks. Why reference what I had said earlier? It was obviously something you were still thinking about. Thinking about how you maligned Adobe, yet were not man enough to admit it openly or to apologize for your transgression.

zutalurs
Last words only work as last words if you don't feel the need to add something else later. Editing to sound "holier than thou" doesn't cut it.

PVS
whatever dude, you have like 8 posts total,
half of which is bashing me.
are you going to make a new career out of breaking my balls?

if adobe feels hurt or insulted through misunderstanding my post, i will assure him that it was not intended. i however owe you jack s***

and btw, your constant jabbing is tha act of a troll, just thought i would point that out.

zutalurs
You're right, you don't owe me anything.

Can't see how trying to get people to use some manners is a bad thing though.

But hey, I only have 8 posts, so what do I know?

zutalurs
Isn't editing your post constantly one as well?

And if you say someone moved a rock and let a lot of ball-breakers out, then I'll know you wear panties.

Darth Cain
What's with the hatred today?

PVS
god, where are all these ballbreakers coming from....ANYONE!?
did someone move a giant rock somewhere?!??!?!?

get a life and leave me alone

PVS
OMFG i dont know darth, did someone change my avatar into a freakin target?

please check for me roll eyes (sarcastic)

Darth Cain
Nope, still Dragonball, not a bullseye. Weird.

PVS
hmmmm interesting...

PVS
read that entire last post, edit notification as well, and say it with me


WTF!?!?!?! What the f**k? What the f**k? What the f**k?

i wonder if its that memphis guy again?

zutalurs
The sad thing is, I really only stated that a lot of people seemed to be attacking Adobe when they hadn't read his post carefully.
And then this guy takes it as a personal affront like I was making fun of how he walks or something.
Maybe we should learn that not everything is personal.

PVS
and the sky is green, ok dude, whatever

dont play the 'good guy' now

and i take insults personally...i didnt know that makes me unique

zutalurs
When are you going to go away and quit "feeding the troll"? Since that's what you think I am?

Darth Cain
Someone may have mistyped something, but from I read, we were responding to the comments of that reviewer that adobe mentioned.

PVS
look, anyone who will doubt me should just look at your post history...say no more

PVS
13 posts, 9 dedicated to bashing me

get a job

zutalurs
Darth, there are several posts stating how the "reviewer" is stupid for bashing then praising the movies.
Since the quoted review does not do this, and the poster is the one praising the movie, it is obvious that some folks did not read the post correctly.
You do not appear to be one of the offenders here, but there were several. And yes, PVS was one of them, stating the original poster was a moron for bashing then praising.

PVS
14 post, 10 dedicated to bashing me

get a job

zutalurs
Thanks for being so interested as to look up my history. I haven't even bothered to think about looking up yours. But I'll take your word for just how prolific you are. Too bad though. Cuz if this thread is any indication, then it's a high number representing sound and furry only.

PVS
15 post, 11 dedicated to bashing me

get a job

zutalurs
insert obligatory "job" joke here.

PVS
16 post, 12 dedicated to bashing me

thats 75% 3/4 of all your posts

get a job

zutalurs
maybe i should have been clearer. insert obligatory "job"/your momma joke here.

PVS
huh funny no expression

17 post, 13 dedicated to bashing me

get a job

zutalurs
i'd keep going, but i know you've already got your shoes off to count this high. don't want to see what you do if i go above 21 posts.
so i'll end this lovely exposition of your intellect while you still have two piggies left.





weeee weeee weeeee

guiro72
just reread this thread....the whole thing's a big misunderstanding from what i can see....i don't think those quotation marks were there before....i too assumed it was just one big quote from an outside reviewer with none of adobe's thoughts included when i first read it....

PVS
even funnier no expression

18 post, 14 dedicated to bashing me

get a job

PVS
you are correct guiro, but it doesnt matter at this point does it.
all this guy had to do was read back and realize that instead of devoting all his time and energy to playing "hero of the thread" and bashing me

Darth Cain
Where's OB1-adobe?

Darth Cain
Anybody?

confused

PVS
i dunno

<----yells out window

ADOBI!!!!!!!!!! OB-1!!!!!!!!

sorry no answer smile

PVS
OMG, you dont think.....naaaaaaaa

its not like i know the guy, but i still highly doubt thats him

smoker4
No it cant be him, the tone is all wrong smokin'

PVS
HEY!!! someone DID change my avatar!!!! laughing laughing laughing

smoker4
Nice AV PVS, quadrophenia stick out tongue smokin'

PVS
never heard of them smile
just following up on a previous post i made:

PVS
oh well, im sick of that avatar already smile

queeq
Burn it!

smoker4
It's an old film smokin'

queeq
Cool.

PVS
i just looked it up...yeah, it does look like the logo smile

queeq
Looking at your sig, PVS, I see more and more resemblances between the two movies. Apart from the loevly dance (and hopefully songs) they both have a lot of animation.

OB1-adobe
Holy Crap! You guys cool down.

smoker4
big grin

PVS
LOL your a wee bit late adobe big grin

it seems you have an admirer.
he was bashing me like crazy because he thought i was insulting you. wouldn't listen to reason either.

he must have thought you were a damsel in distress big grin

PVS
when i first saw that pic of anakin, thats the first thing that popped in my head. i went "holy s***, thats mary poppins" smile

maybe i should throw in a couple of dancing gungans

PVS
BTW adobi, did you add the quotes after you posted this thread? not that it matters at this point, but im just curious. i could have sworn that the quote separating the review from your own comments was missing.

anyway, if the topic is still worth discussing...

i find that many people that bash the PT are really not into star wars. i KNOW there are exceptions, but hear me out.

i listen to howard stern sometimes in the morning and he loved to bash GL when the prequels hit the theater.
he would say crap like "oh, this is garbage, nothing like the original trilogy...blah blah blah" playing it off like he was a star wars fa back in the day. much later i hear him bashing GL, but this time saying stuff like "all those star wars movies are crap...blah blah"

so basically, he would have hated ANYTHING george lucas put out, but pretended to be a fan to intensify his bashing, like GL broke his heart.

no, i dont hate HS, but this kinda got me mad. (of coarse the quotes are very VERY loose, but let HS sue me)

zutalurs
blah blah blah


moron

PVS
LOL

(sing along)
WHO LET THE TROLLS OUT

darth_surgent
Is today "Troll-PVS Day?" Somebody sent in the clowns; that's for sure.

When someone has gone to the lengths of creating a new profile based solely on their dislike of another member, they have completely eroded any sort of legitimate grievances they originally had (if they ever even had any).

How sad.

PVS
OMFG he even put the time into making a profile!?!?!? big grin ROFL!!!!!!!!!

I HAVE TO SEE THIS big grin

brb

PVS
oh you got my hopes up over nothing sad
there was nothing in the profile besides "in you face" WOW, have i been put in my place or what? big grin

i did see the avatar though, expert photoshop work if i say so myself. a red X through my avatar...what a creative mastermind

zutalurs
Oh? And copying and pasting a Dragonscrotum picture took real skill?

PVS
you still here?

look, im bored with you now.
so now i'm going to ignore you.

we did have some times though didnt we, a real rolercoaster ride of emotions on this end i must say.

i went from mildly irritated to apathetic, then to amused, and finally i ended up here....bored

so post whatever last word you just HAVE to have, and have a nice life, ok?

and happy trolling to ya wink

The Tater
Hated Episode I, despised Episode II. To be quite honest, I don't know what to expect out of Episode III. I mean so far, the things I am looking forward to in this movie are very minimal:

-Kashyyyk
-Darth Vader with James Earl Jones' voice
-General Grevious

This movie is supposedly 60-70% fighting. Where is character development and plot going to fit into that? Lucas needs to realize we're not just interested in visuals. *Sigh*

PVS
i feel your pain tater.

lets just hope GL doesnt sarifice substace for eye candy.

interesting that you are looking forward to GG, most who are disappointed with the PT cant stand the idea of him.

darth_surgent
When I said profile, I meant that he(meaning P.V.S. toaster or whatever his name is) became a KMC member just to troll you; not that he had filled in his personal information all about you. I guess I should have been more explicit. Sorry. sad

PVS
hey, i still found it to be quite hysterical. big grin

Jedi Priestess
and I am finding this to be tiresome can we stop discussing it now please.

OB1-adobe
You know its funny you mention that. After I copied and pasted it from amazon.com I was going to put it in red text. Though I confidently felt you guys would probably have undertood my comments from the other guy just by putting qoutes on it. My Bad. I post then leave, do stuff, come back, and there is like 4 pages of posts. I was like what the hell? Then I found out it was nothing but this flame war going. I gotta be honest I didn't see that coming. So since this thread will be closed if I don't do something, I will re post the main thing I found interesting (with color this time).

In Ryan Lockwood's post on amazon.com, he asked this question about how people would think about Episode 3, and I found it interesting:
"If this movie wasn't based in the Star Wars universe, would I still think it's so great?"


This is what I (Ob1-adobe said):

Well If I tried to imagine watching Star Wars for the first time by watching episode 1 first, would I still like it? Well yeah I think so. It still has more imagination than Dude Wheres My Car, and could be argued to be better than The Matrix Trilogy. Why would I, and probably many more would still like it.

2 Words: Light Saber

That weapon, and the duels alone will make you interested in watching the whole saga. Also no other sci-fi movie will ever use a laser sword, and if they did, they are only doing a comedic parody. Believe it or not Star Wars has never been a great emotional expierences from great actors, instead they have basically always been great eye candy, and entertainment with an amazing story and great characters in a fantastic world. And episode I has all of that, if you think about it.

I have always been interested in finding out how future generations will look at these films. Mainly because they will have a different outlook, and I think their opinions will be more honest, and not so much biased like Ryan Lockwood's.

Ken Benobi
There a a few things about the newer movies I don't like, but I think there are more things I do like than things I don't like. Someone in another thread said something about how they viewed the newer SW movies from a standpoint of appreciating how they lend more understanding to the older ones, and I kind of adopt the same view myself. And even though my view could be biased because I've been a SW fan since I was 2 years old, here are some other facts to consider:

- When A New Hope first came out , movie-goers were awed by special effects which were groundbreaking and new at the time, as well as a story that was exciting, and great chemistry between the actors onscreen.

- The Star Wars movies have seen the likes of some legendary and accomplished actors over the years, as well as some very moving musical scores by John Williams. There's probably not enough space or time to go into those aspects here.

- After having watched the OT movies(maybe I've seen them a hundred times each in my life, who knows) I still find them quite entertaining, and I really do find amazing talent and genius in the story and character development.
Anyhow, I could go on, but there are a few thoughts to think on there..
smile

yerssot
a few comments though, KB...

- at the time of ANH, the FX in other movies were just terrible, so, yes, ANH totally rocked with using new FX and improving the old ones. BUT that's exactly what TPM did! they had perhaps 200 shots without CGI in the entire movie... but people didn't pay attention to it. Why? because almost every movie these days is loaded with FX and it just didn't stick as "earthbreaking" anymore

- Sorry, but I only see (currently) Harrison Ford as big actor... and the TPM has Samuel L Jackson as big one

- look in the PT how Sidious manipulates the entire trilogywink

PVS
regardless of GL's intentions, the PT is an entirely different animal than the OT. its just a product of a man waiting close to 20 years to finish his story...or rather begin it.

many people, like myself, hoped to go into ep1 with the same feel of the PT, and walked out of the theater a bit diappointed. but then i realise that it's close to impossibe to make another part of a series so far seperated, and have them match.
its been tried before, and with no success.

any godfather fan will know exactly what i mean when they think of godfather3, a quality film, but seemingly alienated from the first two, which kinda ruins it.

although ep3 will tie in to ep4, dont expect to be immersed in 1977 when the film hits its last 15 minutes, and you just may leave he theater happy. and dont be mad at GL, what he hopes to pull off is like turnng water to wine.
it just wont happen. but it can still be the kicka$$ film of the decade...so long as he doesn't screw it all up.

so lets keep our fingers crossedsmile

PVS
to finish my point (almost forgot)

being that the PT is it own trilogy, so long as its completed with no screwing up, it stands alone as its own trilogy, sparing it the fate of godfather3.

GL says view it from 1-6, but i say hell no. if you have kids and want to introduce them to star wars, sit them down to OT first. let them feel the same chill up their spine when vader says "i am your father"
and watch them get up and cheer when vader tosses palps over the rail.

thats what im going to do smile

Jedi Priestess
thumbsup yes

And PVS I agree they need to be watched for the first time, at least, in the order they were filmed.

smoker4
Its a strange thing with the past films, he cant reproduce the eccense of the original trilogy, too many factors have changed, for me he's just filling in the gaps in..

Its like horror films, they used to be scarry and now they are pants, the original texas chainsaw still scares the pants off me, but the remake is dogs explosion sex liquid!!(sorry bit graphic)

OB1-adobe
Yeah that can be fun to, but for the sake of it only being a science experiment, I really want to get someones thoughts who watched it sequentially for the first time. Mainly because it is something we will never know ourselves.

Me, I am going to watch it backwards, forwards, sideways, and up the middle. I have nothing but the up most confidence that Episode 3 will be fine. Though I garauntee all of you something, or somethings in the movie will make you cringe because you thought it was so bad. But everyone of these movies has more cool than not cool moments, and each one is worth watching.

smoker4
Yeah the cooler moments make up for things like jar jar and midichlorians smokin'

Ken Benobi
Well, concerning the actors I was really thinking of differences to the acting of then and the acting of now. Not in any way to take away from the actors in the PT, who I think are good, but there is a difference. I was thinking of some of the older ones like Sir Alec Guinness, Peter Cushing(Grand Moff Tarkin), who really made viewing the film a treat.

Concerning TPM and the CG, I agree with you, in fact, I actually wish they wouldn't use CG so much, I think it bothers my eyes if used too much.

Ushgarak
Could we not have feeble debates/argumnets between members like we have seen here please? Future incidents will lead to both parties being warned.

Gangularis
rofl.. i love this guy.

Gangularis
anyway.. as far as the subject matter is concerned, i do think the prequel trilogy does have less great acting (oh my god! yes i said it!! yes, they actually did good acting in the original movies..... harrison ford can act, billy dee williams can act, carrie fisher can act, mark hammil is luke skywalker - therefore he doesn't have to act). The humor in the original trilogy was superiorer, yoda didn't have a face that looked like he's strung out on a meth binge, and Samuel L. Jackson wasn't in it trying to act a part he's not meant to play. RS-D2 actually sounded like he said stuff when he made his noises, and now it just sounds like they randomly use old cliche artoo noises for the prequal... and to top it off, the love story didn't start out with "are you an angel?" delivered by a little boy who again - COULD NOT ACT.

The original movies were not epic just because of eye candy.. what a cop-out statement that is. The original trilogy was great because..... IT WAS GREAT..

there's so much more i could add, but i'll end on a positive note and say that i do think that episode II did hit the mark much more closely, and i'm hoping that episode III will be so goddamn awesome (for numerous reasons) that there won't be much room to complain about bad acting or cheezy dialogue... plus, i do believe that Hayden will do good being bad and angry... otherwise i don't think he's much of an actor... especially when it comes to scenes with dialogue like "Master Obi-won would be very grumpy" or "aah man, not again".. or his awful excuse for a goodbye scene to his mother when she passed away..... thank god he redeemed it with a badass short moment of slaughtering tuskens.

anyway, crossing fingers and guessing by episode III it will be even better... since GL has that video village, there will be no excuse for not noticing poor performances that show up on screen.

cavola
whatever others may think (including Liam Nesson) who tought that the prequels are not redeeming OT, GL dont give much tought.

he made up a story, made lots of money, and he was out to make more.

Imagine you are in the seventies; you are GL and your imagination runs through you like a wild river about to burst its banks. you decide to write a story called STAR WARS.
you then show it to your classmates, friends, parents, relatives and movie studios and everyone LAUGHS THEIR HEAD OFF AT YOU !!

They tell you that you are a fool if you hope to make this a movie out of it.

They tell you that you are crazy. They tell you your story is the worst one ever and the plot is jam-packed shit . Its ridiculous, incoherent, overrun by fantasy and impossible to imagine. at that point GL would or should have tought that he take the story to the field, throw it in a rusty canister and burn it hoping no-one would ever bring it up as a fruit from a far too trippy brainhead.

" HEY GUYS, GL had so much acid in his youth that his brain has gone cuckoooooooooo "

But no; GL had the guts to ignore the opinions, the dissing & mockery he was subject to and went ahead making his movie STAR WARS ; A NEW HOPE.

My point is that whatever anyone comments on OT or PT is to GL irrelevant. He will go ahead and do it and so far (and as far as i know) he is one of the richest beards in Hollywood.

Gangularis
yeah.. we know he'll do it no matter what.. and it's an interesting topic, but it's a little off this topic..

i think here we're just doing the same old debate about how the new trilogy compares to the old.

Sith Master X
I think GL has done just fine. I've enjoyed the prequels even more then the OT thus far, but again, that's me.

yerssot
how you think they act is up to you and is personal...

but I think that the archetypes who weren't in it or didn't got enough time were in it for something.
Cause what do we see in TPM as archetypes?
A very wise and very old master... got five minutes screentime
A very powerful and evil person ... got 2 scenes
A very funny character... the entire movie where in the OT, the droids were only funny for a few scenes
A person who sets his principles higher than others (QGJ), he got a good part of the movie (and I think he did well)

what else was there? cause it always focused on QGJ and OB1 (who was supposed to be the young one trying to be wise and powerful by the rules but didn't show that well)

In the OT, you have 3 (human) good guys: a princess, a scoundrel and a "local boy"
also an all powerful Wookie, the pure incarnation of evil: Vader, ...
and all got enough screentime


gotcha, just misunderstood you there then smile

guiro72
"If the original trilogy never exsisted, what would i think of the phantom menace?"

phantom menace seems lame at least partly because of expectations, like everyone says (and i find it a bit lame myself because of my own expectations - so i'm including myself there).....however, i've always thought that if the original trilogy never exsisted, and episode I was the first film released, how different it would seem to everybody.....

"hey, i saw that new phantom menace movie last night"....
"i saw the trailer on et....what the hells that all about?".....
"it's weird, it's a kid's film, but it's the strangest damn kid's film i ever saw".....
"so what's it all about?".....
"well, it's all set in space, and there's these samurai monk guys, kind of a cross between a religious cult and a sherrif in a western, and they discover some kid who's a virgin birth and supposedly will fulfill some kind of quasi-religious prophecy, meanwhile an evil cult, like an evil version of the samurai monks is secretly taking over the galaxy etc. etc.".....

sorry, but it's hard to think of any movie that would seem as outright weird and unhinged as this would seem....and i for one would probably be intrigued and respectful, in a different way to how i feel now about the ot sure, but nonetheless....

"If this movie wasn't based in the Star Wars universe, would I still think it's so great?"

it would be a hollywood remake of a kurosawa film wouldn't it?.....

PVS
yeah, whether GL likes it or not, the PT is the follow up of the OT.

if TFM came out first, lucas would never have the budget left to even get to ep3. its only by the support of OT fans, kids and adults, that the PT have been blockbusters.

on their own, as previous posters have stated, they are far to obscure for someone to enjoy, who does not know what a jedi is, or who anakin will eventually become.

without the elements of irony, and nostalgia from the OT, those little moments that matter will be missed "what you think your some kinda jedi?" "we will be watching your career with great interest" "your going to be the death of me" etc.

we should petition GL to package the saga dvd as eps 4,5,6,1,2,3. stick out tongue

or we can just present this idea to supershadow, which would save much time, and cut through alot of red tape big grin

yerssot
Killercool! your idea will be forwarded!

guiro72
er, actually i was saying the opposite....i would have enjoyed phantom menace MORE if i had never seen the originals, with no frame of reference to be judgemental...."weird and unhinged" is my idea of a compliment when it comes to films.....not "zany", just something totally original i've never seen before....

i'm crossing ideas over from another post here, but i can't be bothered to dig around and find it.....if "luke, i am your father" is as imbedded in the public consciousness as "go ahead, make my day", doesn't that pretty much mean NO ONE is gonna be surprised by the "revelation" ever again (future generations).....i mean "frankly my dear, i don't give a damn" doesn't tell you the plot of the film.....

i will always watch them in numerical order, unless i'm just watching one trilogy by themselves.....at the very least it will end with the ones that don't annoy me wink .....

guiro72
i've got something to present to supershadow....

PVS
i dont think little kids pay much attention to cliche movie lines that we adults tend to beat to death.

its easy for you and me to say that the lack of the ESB revelation doesnt matter, cause we've all been there done that, right? but to a new fan, i think its a downright sin for them to miss out on that.

PVS
yeah, i've got something for him too.
a good ol' "one finger salute" big grin

guiro72
everyone's heard "luke, i am your father"....a hundred million times....maybe if i had a kid who was 5 years old, and had never left the house, had no friends, and had never watched television before, i would think about giving them the pure ot experience.....but for me myself it's numerical all the way....but i'm possibly a bit obsessive compulsive....

mephistodesigns
I still think there's a lot of weight to the scene even if you know its Anakin, the emotion behind the scene, for me, has always been Luke's reaction and his ultimate acceptance of this. For me it's not "oh wow, this bad guy was actually good at one point" or anything. For me it was always, jeez, how do you find that out and deal with it? I mean if you go far enough back, all bad guys were good at some point. But the fact that Luke now knows is why its powerful, he's built up this image of his father based on what Owen told him. Then Obi-wan tells him he was actually a jedi, so Luke thinks his dad was even cooler, now he finds out he may have been a Jedi, but now he's this ultimate evil mass murderer feared throughout the galaxy. The weight of the scene is how do you deal with that? Do you get mad at Yoda and Ob-wan for essentially lying to you, whether it was for a good cause or not? Or do you accept it and try to stay on the path of the light? The scene will always be important whether you know who he is or not. Its a scene more crucial to Luke's development than it is this shock value twist.

PVS
if that is the case, you can still watch them 4,5,6,1,2,3, and think of it as keeping it in chronological order smile

mephistodesigns
but the point is, the scene won't be ruined by watching the prequels first, because you'll be waiting for Luke to be told and the suspense will come from how he deals with it. So they still should be watched in numerical order.

PVS
but what if your OCD gets out of control and you end up watching them in alphabetical order big grin


1-attack of the clones
2-(the) empire strikes back
3-(a) new hope
4-(the) phantom menace
5-return of the jedi
6-revenge of the sith

PVS
i just dont think it will have the same power as it did from 4-6.
i do agree though, it would not KILL the scene, but it will take the edge off of it

mephistodesigns
then you will need some seriously intense therapy before venturing back out into the real world! smile

guiro72
think you're both right to some degree....i think the shock reveal was huge at the time, but then luke's reaction and inner turmoil takes over as the main point of drama (even while watching it for the first time)....if knowing the twist was going to kill the movie completely, then you wouldn't have watched it 300 times since.....and i know you have wink ....

smoker4
302 actually eek!

darth_surgent
When I first saw ANH (as a child), I took it as a major possibility that Darth Vader was Luke's father. Yeah, you can say that George Lucas didn't know that it was going to happen yet, but what else do you think when someone talks about your dead father, then introduces a masked villain, then goes on to talk about how this villain was once a good man. The shock was never big at all for me when ESB came out, so that should not be a motivation.

However, the movies should still be watched by the order they were produced in. That's what you do when you have an original and a prequel! You don't watch the prequel first, since that would be the same as watching the sequel first. Lucas tried to design it so that the movies can be watched in numerical order, but it is not a "you have to watch it like this" kind of thing. A prequel is just a sequel that takes place before, instead of after the original. Original always comes first. The PT takes place first chronologiocally, but it is the evolution that came from the beginnings. When you watch films, you progress; you do not regress.

The OT shows a universe. The PT expands on that universe. If you watch the PT first, you get a universe, then when you watch the OT, that universe becomes smaller and less significant.

I'm not saying that you can't watch it 1,2,3,4,5,6 whenever you want, but don't show it to your kids that way.

OB1-adobe
I'm not saying that you can't watch it 1,2,3,4,5,6 whenever you want, but don't show it to your kids that way.


You can do it either way. But do you think that some 10 year old kid in 2015 is just gonna start watching Star Wars for the first time, and for some reason start in the middle? I am not bickering at you, just a word of advice man 2 man: Don't tell kids how they should watch a certain movie, or they won't watch it at all. My Dad tried to make me watch John Wayne movies a zillion times because he loves John Wayne, but I didn't care and still don't because it was almost force fed. Its understandable why you would want to have future generations expierence it the way you did, but school always told us that #2 comes after #1, and that is the way its going to be. Life can be a real *****.

Gangularis
i just watched shattered glass with Hayden Christensen and i was actually impressed with his more emotional moments in the film... he CAN actually act sometimes... if he only he had done that right for his mother's death scene sequence.. he could've pulled out so much more than just one little tiny fake tear. I think he could've done it better, with the right direction.

Sith Master X
I thought he did a great job with his mother's death scene. But that's just me. I'm sure we'll see a much better performance out of him during Episode 3.

PVS
perhaps lucas didnt want a tear...you know its very easy to create tears through cg, same as facial movements, and addition of a smirk or a raised eyebrow, to avoid reshoots. if lucas really wanted tears, we would have seen them, whether or not hayden could conjure them up.

besides, im not sure if it fits anakins character to cry....b**** and moan till no end, yes....bot not crying

guiro72
if you include the tusken slaughter as part of anakin's reaction then it's a pretty powerful reaction i'd say.....i caught hayden on some soap opera once (weird, i don't watch tv much and i don't even know what the show was...total coincidence)....he was throwing furniture around and crying in some girl's bedroom....he was crying when he told padme about the slaughter, and he's crying (or close to it) in photo's i've seen of the new duel....this is what hayden does, and a big part of why he was chosen for the role....(not arguing a point, all of this just reminded me)......

and darth surgent, i agree and i've always said vader was luke's father right from the start.....he made up the leia sister thing at the end, but vader was always luke's father.....and it raised my eyebrows at the time, but in my subconscious i already knew from all the dropped hints (i was only about 7 - mind games still worked on me then)....

PVS
well then i stand corrected. anakin is a whiney b****.
obiwan should have slapped him clean across the face the first time anakin
every questioned him.

guiro72
i agree....

Gangularis
powerful reaction in the idea... but in actions and acting, it was a poor representation of the idea for the most part.

just watch the death scene again... it's terrible!! that is NOT good acting.. i'm sorry.. it's just not.

Jedi Priestess
blah blah blah I still think he is best for the role.

Gangularis
blah blah blah i still think he looks right for the role, but should've learned how to act first.

PVS
hayden is a good actor, ewan is a great actor.
in the PT they come off as pretty dry. even the attempts at humor
left me like "huh no expression" bad directing is to blame.

so dont be a hayden hater wink

edit>>> ok, there WERE a couple of funny moments

example:
anakin "then we decided to come and rescue you"
obiwan "good job"

but most of their attempts at humor are just bland

guiro72
when i say anakin is an annoying arrogant bastard in the prequels, i mean that in a good way(?).....i like that his character is flawed and enjoy watching him be a p***k....i don't think his acting is any worse than anyone else's in the film.

the one scene that stands out for me the most in the bad acting stakes, is obi wan and anakin's arrival in the elevator at the start of the film, and this is mostly ewan's shortfall, yet i know he's an excellent actor and has been pretty damn good in most other things i've seen, which suggests it's george's fault (too many coincidences - poor jake lloyd, he'll never work again).....

i like when anakin is winding obi wan up during the speeder chase, scaring the crap out of him and laughing. that's a great scene. what a p***k. and i like how he played the seduction of padme creepy instead of romantic. he's one sick puppy alright.

PVS
yeah, that elevator scene was just soooo sucky.
but like you said, ewan is an excellant actor. its just bad writing.

darktim1
well I have some comments that natalie portman made yesterday she said that the duel between anakin and obi-wan is so violant and that people will love it for now may force be with you.

Darth Cain
The Duel better be great and Lucas had better not cut away from it to show something else (maybe once early on, but then all action). That fight is what people have waited a looooong time for.

smoker4
From what i've read its a solid action fest with no cut away yeeeeehaaaaaaa!!! smokin'

Gangularis
yes, i think if george had gotten right in there, and gave them specific directions, and made them do it until they got it right, we'd have had a better delivery of even some of the cheezier moments.

PVS
i dunno if its possible to get some of those cheesy lines right

"i havent seen you this tense since...well since we fell into that nest of gundarks"

now, try to make that line sound comical.
its impossible, the lines just sucked in that scene.

GL: "ok, i want to plug the pre-AotC book...but how...I KNOW!"

smoker4
Yes it was like he had egg all over his face *ahem* stick out tongue

Gangularis
LOL!

but things like say... hayden's dream sequence where he's lying in his bed dreamin about his mom... that just seemed WAY TOO overacted... i think he could've done a better job.

either that, or they could've just not even used it.. and just cut to him awake early in the morning where padme mentions hearing him dreaming in his sleep.

smoker4
Yeah didnt like that scene, it looked more like he was having a wet force dream smokin'

Jedi Priestess
blah blah blah go watch Life as a House and then come back and tell me that.....it was the writing not the actor.........

smoker4
Life as a house??? not seen that, my worst film has got to be Hudson Hawk sick sick sick

Jedi Priestess
uh LAH is an excellent film smoker........

smoker4
Is it recent? whats the premise of it??

Jedi Priestess
It was made in 01/02 I think? Has Kevin Kline in it....Hayden does an excellent job with his character.

smoker4
I will endevour to check it out, it rings a bell now!!

guiro72
it's a tear-jerking cancer patient/coming of age/family drama type scenario, from what i've heard....most people seem to agree that it's quite good (especially on the acting front)....haven't got round to it yet myself....

PVS
i saw it.
not my cup of tea, but thats the movie i saw
which sold me on hayden's acting ability.
proof positive that the writing and directing must
take the blame.

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