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Rocksteady is back! For clarification, I hope that some of the info that we have been fed on Ep. III is false just because i think GL would be smart not to let us know everything, as illustrated with Empire. The reason that i bring up the Padme thing is I guess because I don't like it. I just have a hard time believing that he will do it, therefore i hope that isn't how she dies. It may bring a finish to the Anakin/Vader character arc, but i think it would be more effective if say she dies while under the protection of Obi-Wan or the Jedi as a whole, which would explain more fully, his hatred for Obiwan and the Jedi. She probably will be killed by him, but I hope she doesn't. Her dying separate from anything Anakin does makes all the foreshadowing better(he hates change, can't let go, couldn't stop her from dying like he promised her he would learn to do, blames it on his master who holds him back or the jedi who hold him back even more, hatred towards them like his hatred towards the tusken's who he blamed for his mother's death, etc....) His anger causing Padme's death just doesn't reconcile his later actions for me. So through the OT I'm supposed to be like: awwwwwwww, poor Darth! He didn't MEAN to kill her. He's really just a big sweety, guys!" F that!
Comments?

One

Sorry aj but if you go by todays webcam it's definitely Anakin that precipitates her death.

yeah and I wonder what he is going to have going on in clone wars season 3 comming up in march of 2005.

What did they show?

Yes, do tell.

If you haven't seen it yet, there are a few subtle frames where Padme is kind of falling to the ground, while Anakin stands before her with a menacing look and a "hand gesture." It's pretty definitive.

Does she die? Or does she only becomes unconscious?

Well, it's not entirely clear, but it looks like she is injured, and will probably die soon. It is extremely likely that she will have the children very soon, then die (in the shots, she's still obviously pregnant). Of course, you can never be too certain, but its quite straightforward.

We'll find out when the OT DVD comes out. If GL cut the scene where Leia says she vaguely remembers her real mother, we KNOW Padme's going to die in ROTS.... But I'd hate that.

Yeah, but he could always leave it in and pull a cheat, saying that "Leia used the force to recall a connection with her mother," or something stupid like that.

He's not going to PUT that in the movie for sure, but if he uses that as justification then's it's pure BS. Then Luke could have done that himself, he was more Force adept on ROTJ than Leia.

I don't suppose anyone would be kind enough to post these pics if they have them, been searching for them but can't find them

Good plan. Anyone?

They are in the webcam thread....

Ah...

I still can't find this pic found the thread where it was mentioned but could not find the pic. Please help

Me neither.

He didn't cut it. It remains completely unchanged.

corn

So certain are you. Always with you it cannot be done...

*draws a map for the obviously blind* j/k
its about 1/3 of the way down past all the padme stuff and right past the scene on her ship.

If that scene isn't changed and Padme does die, then that becomes the worst scene in the OT. Leia can't have any memories as a newborn....

Unless, Padme fakes her death because her life is over.....

I think even for dramatic purposes Padme should die bewteen ROTS and ANH. "It is the only way..."

That I wouldn't have a problem with....
Leia does say her mother died when she was very young.....
Maybe from her injuries?

We shall see.....

Unless Leia never knew she was adopted.

Nah, if she didn't know she was adopted, this would have been the scene:

LUKE: "What do you remember about your mother, your REAL mother?"

LEIA: "WTF are you jivin' 'bout, flyboy? You knows I weren't 'dopted!"

Or something like that.

cornponious

heh... heh....





cornspankious.

ghetto leah

That would be my guess... I saw a cast list that had someone playing Mrs. Organa

The only catch to me about Leia not knowing that is the way Luke phrases the question to her. That implies that she knows at least some of the truth....

If PAdme dies between ROTS and ANH there is no problem in my mind. For one, explaining every friggin' detail (which George is sort of doing) ruins the saga in my mind. I don't need and don't want every detail explained within the frame of the movie. Explaining is boring and nothing is more deadly to a movie than being boring (see TPM). Secondly, I think Leia is implying the reason of her death: she was sad. I can imagine her being extremely grief-struck by the course her husband had chosen, becoming that which she has hated all of her life. Deep sadness can kill someone, so in a way Anakin DOES kill her, not by violence but by the very heart of the matter: his choice for evil. Personally I think that is much more profound (especially due to implying that and not explaining it) than seeing her being killed by Anakin.

very true Master Queeq.


however, I think that I agree with whoever posted that him killing his own wife, by accident, (he meant to check her, not kill her), and waking up as vader, and being told that by palps, then he would go to the darkside, completely. He doesnt have anybody left.

"There is nothing for me here, now, I want to learn the ways of the force and become a sith,like you... would you be my father?"

p.s I thought that current rumors said that leah is born first, has her force connection with padme, padme DIES, then luke is born. when she is gone.

"I have no memory of my mother, I never knew her"

also, watch the scene again. There is no direct evidence that leah really saw her alive after her birth.

Think about it:

"leah, do you remember your mother, your real mother?"
"just a little bit, she died when I was very young"-bail could have distorted this part a little to make her feel better
"What do you remeber?"
KEY QUOTE: "just IMAGES,really, FEELINGS"- i.e. FORCE CONNECTION

Not, she raised me to age 3 on alderann,luke.

Just saying it gives ol' GL a little wiggle room.

If that is true, it's terrible. The Force then becomes the ultimate magic box to fill up holes in the story one can drive a truck through.
Suddenly this thing called Force connection turns up. What the heck is that? I've never heard of this. Lucas is becoming a bit like Agatha Christie.

True!

It may just translate to his box office/fans

"And then there were none"

Actually, that's a bit erroneous. There IS evidence that Leia saw her alive, and even had a relationship with her. It's all in the quote that you didn't finish:

"Just images, really. Feelings. She was very beautiful, *KIND*, yet sad".

If Padme only held Leia for a few seconds/minutes before dying, there is no way Leia could have remembered that her mother was "kind". There must be more to this than the current rumor.

cornponious

i guess padme could be mortally wounded at the end of ep III, in some kind of hospital.....however, i believe there is a funeral, lucasfilm hinted at it, with a certain cheekiness that implied it was an important character, and an important scene....i can't think who else this would refer to.....also, i don't buy anakin turning any other way, and being that sick and twisted in the ot....i've had a problem with this from the start, and couldn't think of any way for them to make it work....when i first heard the padme rumour it was bombshell moment for me....i felt like at last i understood.....if it doesn't happen, i will go back to my old opinion....i just won't really buy the whole saga.....

oh yeah, and thanks for posting the original dialogue, sithsabre, i haven't had time to look it up myself.....i buy it, it fits for me....it's a bit mystical, but the whole saga is like that....

I just don't know how we can think "there is still good in him" at the end of EVI. How can there be good in a man who has killed his wife?

cornponious

it was a total accident....look at how worked up he is in pictures of the duel....he's not thinking clearly, lashes out in the heat of the moment (we know he's got a nasty temper), and then has to live with self hatred and blame for the rest of his life.....he's nasty in the ot, because he hates HIMSELF, he's in denial, and also why he renounces his real name and never wants to hear it again....all makes sense then.....and there's your sympathy as well.....

becasue obviously Luke has felt it during his interactions with him I'd say

correct, luke doesnt have that knowledge, so his opinion of vader was not bias.
however, the line that gets me is this "obiwan once thought as you do"

i assume that obiwan tries to reason with anakin during the duel, and after the fact that anakin tries killing his wife. how forgiving

the question wasn't how does luke sense it, it was how do we as an audience understand it, and believe it.....IT WAS AN ACCIDENT!!!!.....killing padme that is, turning to the dark side was just arrogance....

it WAS an accident. anakin will be more of the abusive husband than a killer.
he doesn't know his own strength, so he ends up killing her.
that is why mech vader will be so pissed off.

yeah, pissed off and a guilty emotional wreck....hence sympathy.....

Tragedy, at least. But choking someone like that kill them? He doesn't give her the full Captain Needa treatment.....

no, she has to last long enough to travel to another planet, land, and give birth....i would kinda feel sorry for him if this was the case....i would feel his pain.....at last the passion that was missing from these films begins to seep in.....

I just don't know if that would kill her......
Maybe childbirth, but still.

Passion, yes, I'd like to see some of that again.

All the passion is in Ep.3- I hope.

yes, it seems that way....*crosses fingers*....but if it turns out the way i'm imagining it, it will also seep forward into the ot....i'm also hoping for some big twists that alter the way we see the first two prequels when we rewatch those....i hated the "mace is a traitor" theory, but that kind of effect, even if it's subtle character stuff like just knowing more about palpatine's past and/or origins.....

I must agree. It doesn't have to be " I am your father" but some bit of cleverness would be great. Lucaas is still capable of it (Owen actually being Luke's uncle), so I'm hoping.....

this is his last chance to invest some worth and depth into phantom menace....

Good point. Redeem the parts of it that sucked, that's what- 40%?

Why not a Special Edition of that? Severely reduced presence of Jar-Jar.....

well, you know i prefer him to not change things, but to alter our perceptions of what's already there....but that's just me....and it's a bit late for that really.....this is one reason i liked the qui gon erased the files in the archive theory....i mean, it's stupid and i wouldn't want him to actually do it, but the way it would alter our whole perception of phantom menace and the character of qui gon would be astronomical....that's the kind of thing i'm talking about....

best one so far is the look anakin gives mace when mace rejects him in the council scene....

Yeah, I think that will be interesting when he sees Palpatine do in Mace.

or when he does in mace

but what is interesting for me is the extra layer of meaning added to phantom menace when revisited....

Maybe....
Actually, I've starting to be convinced that he (Anakin) may finish the job.
But I'll bet he watches from the side for a moment first similar to ROTJ, which I would like.

yeah, from what i've heard it's a rotj moment, with both of them trying to convince him round to their team....and then he chooses...very suddenly....

That's actually sounding better and better to me. It was said somewhere that it all comes down to Anakin making the wrong choice....

aye, right through the chest....

you should let me know your level of spoiler avoidance i guess....

Well, I was going to try to stay mostly spoiler free......

But I'm....

I'm just too weak when it comes to Star Wars!

Never the seen the Phantom Edit? A lot better.

Nope. Lucas really needs some to do an edit for him and explain why its better on each of these....

Maybe he has too much creative freedom?

No probs there, maybe he has too many yes-men. Like McCallum.

That may be.....

the game for me is to add to the exsisting pictures with each new one....without changing the source material....(eg after esb came out you could go back to anh and see the scene in obi wans' hut change before your eyes, after rotj it suddenly becomes apparent that vader is torturing his own daughter in anh - sick).....not lucas' game though, apparently.....the phantom edit is kinda eu though really isn't it?.....

definitely too many yes men on tpm, macallum creeps me out....i think lucas was just rusty to start with, he's getting much better as he goes along....should've done a few non-star wars warm up pics first (as i've said before).....now ep I is a multi million dollar practice run.....

Hardly EU. Nothing to do with expansion, more with CU, Compressed Universe. It's been cut from the TPM theatrical VHS, nothing added, just cut shorter and shuffled about very slightly. Made it more compact and brought the story out stronger, IMHO OC.

I never saw that one ... heard they cut out jar jar almost entirely?

Yeah quite a few scenes, except the crucial ones to keep the story going. They also cut all Anakin's lousy one-liner (this is not good) and his Ooopses and stuff. I liked it.

CU, compressed universe....heh, never heard that one before....like it....

by eu i meant fan made, that's all....like the homemade trailers cut out of making of docs....always been curious to see it, but not enough to spend a week downloading it....

Yes, I know what you meant. But it's not ADDED stuff, it's just TPM recut. So it contains only canon stuff, it just leaves some redundant stuff out. It doesn't bring any new elements in or new insights. It's TPM, but differently cut.

okay whatever.

Yup.

i heard they dubbed the neimoidians and had subtitles....i always thought that would've been cooler....

Lucas should have done more of the subtitled alien dialogue, a little more.


Killing Padme works for Anakin's fall to the dark side, but it doesnt fit the OT....
Anyone got any ideas? I think that's what this thread was about...

hi cain....it all comes down to leia's memory scene in rotj, other than that it works perfectly for me.....so perfectly that i would rather have that one short scene be confusing for the sake of the believability of the entire saga (and it really does make that much of a difference to me).....however, having read the original dialogue again that was posted verbatim a few posts back, i really don't think it's a hole.....it's a bit mystical and far fetched that leia might remember her mother from a few brief minutes of time spent with her, but no more than vader being able to "sense" obi wan from miles away, or yoda lifting enormous objects with nothing but willpower.....the whole saga works on this kind of fortune telling, spoon bending logic.....and at the moment tht's the only thing that would make the death problematic that i can see....

"spoon bending logic"- very nice.

I guess i'd just come to like the idea of Padme watching over lil Leia from a distance....
After all, Padme is adept at disguising herself.

At this point, I almost wouldn't mind that part (ROTJ) being slightly altered.
But its much more impressive to make something fit than to just erase something because it doesn't.......

well, you know how i feel about the altering to fit mentality....but it's a bit late for that now, the spell has already been broken....i wracked my brains trying to come up with a good explanation of vaders mental state in the ot, and when i heard this rumour it was the biggest sigh of relief i've ever, er, expelled....that was the moment i thought that maybe everything might turn out alright for me and the star wars universe....

plus i want ep III to be gut wrenchingly emotional and unhinged.....i want to feel this one....

I've wondered if she survived because of the statement Pablo made: that he didn't think there were any contradictions with the OT and this film.......

Hoping for another Uncle Owen type explanation, something clever.....

bump (sinking stupid threads)

Agh, is that my cue now?

Closing upon request.