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Ok so yesterday I was reading an article in a magazine saying that animals used for fur coats, handbags, boots, etc. are killed by electrocution, drowning, and gassing. This really disturbed me because I automatically thought about my cat Bob being electrocuted. I know this is kind of unrealistic because my cat would never be killed for his fur, but today I did a little research relating to the whole fur thing and I feel awful that our society has to kill living creatures in order to be "fashionable." It also opened my eyes to all the philosophical aspects of killing animals for clothing. Where do we draw the line? Do we kill cows and fish for food but leave the minx, bears, and alligators alone? I think I'm going to start an Animal Rights Club at my school, but I definitely need a little bit more knowledge about the fur thing. What do you guys think?

I think the idea of using fur for clothing is dated and unnecessary. I'm not opposed to killing animals for food, but it bothers me that people kill animals only to make a nice fur coat for some rich lady...

i dont like rich ladies with fur coats but i think that suede or leather shoes are fine because the cow was killed to make hamburgers too.

I concur, doctor Naz.

It bothers me to know that many animals are killing for making furs and other 'stuff' only for the sake of fashion, and is horrible how animals are used for experiment (not talking about medical experiments but for cosmetics and unnecessary factors) is not fear to make a rabbit blind only to see if the make up goes inside your eye would make you blind. Well, there have been using the same chemicals and fats to make make up that some of this experiments are unnecessary and unethical.

We have an animal club in our school CHETA (colation for the Humane and Ethical Treatment of Animals) As bad as what some ppl to do animals, what ppl to do other humans is worse and should deal with that first, IMO

ae, when i first looked at you av, i thought it was a duck...sorry off topic.....uh....i dont like fur coats!

This whole "leather is fine because we eat the cow" argument hold no water. The carcases of the poor little furry creatures that go to make up those rich old ladies coats don't go to waste. They end up in mulch fed to the animals you DO eat & the cows that make your leather shoes.

You either condone slaughter or you dont - half way ethics are no ethics at all.

Bah, animal rights are over rated, they're going to die no matter what. Eating animals, or wearing them, they'll be dead either way. Who cares.

fur isnt needed. i hope all those stuck bitches who wear it. get stabbed robbed at set on fire all while there are ripped out so the flesh eating bugs can get to there brian easier.or the could just stop the practice

well humans die no matter what, does that make it right to kill us?

Of course not, what I meant is that people are always going to kill animals, whether it be for food or for clothing. If you don't like it then don't participate in it, but if you eat meat, then you have no right to complain about the people who wear them, you're just as responsible.

If you don't eat meat, then I feel sorry for you.

Cuz your missing out on In-n-out's double double!

Exactly, those tasty burgers are definately worth the life of some stupid animal that would spend it's life just wandering around sniffing things.

in-n-out droolio
im for killing animals for food, cuz hey sometimes animals kills us for food. but i just dont like killing them for fashion.

In the bible it says that god put animals on earth so that man could do whatever he wished with them!

So drown them, bash them, gas them!
God wrote the bible and if he says it's ok....it's ok with me.




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Animals should be treated humanely...I think people should have the common ethical respect as superior beings to use them humanely, and kill them as painlessly as possible. They feel pain.

When you harvest pot, and rip it from the earth.....Does it not scream?

When you put fire to it in order to savor it's bud-filled goodness.....does it not burn?

Think of the plants...for the love of God...think of the plants....

You mean those palms that were murdered when Jesus came into town?

Palm Sunday is a celebration of murder!

I am for killing animals for food.

But for UNECESSARY clothes is just stupid..

The two major points here are:

1). Are the animals being deliberately or even accidentally hurt when they take part in vivisection or are slaughtered to make fur-coats and burgers ?

2). Are the animals being killed so that we can eat them and wear their furs & skins to keep ourselves dry and warm ?

If the answer is yes to number one then that is WRONG !

If the answer is yes to number two then that is RIGHT !

Well, that's my opinion anyway !

Here is an interesting link for those that give-a-damn:

http://www.peta.org/

Animals are not important. To begin at the right end it might be better to think of the people.

Anyone that supports Animal rights cannot possibly experiments conducted on animals. Yes, there have been animal experiment testing in the past. So, if you opose animals getting hurt....than you defetenly don't aprove of those experiments. Example: Sending a monkey into space.

i do think it's ok to kill to EAT, and i stress to eat. But to look fashionable, NO. I do like the way animal prints clothes look, but not the animal print thats Actually made from the animal itself. Years ago, they needed animals for clothing, we no longer have to have that. It's pointless and I think it's great your wanting to starts an animal rights club.

Anyone that's against killing animals for fashion simple hasn't worn Mink before. diva

I hate PETA

I don't like people who wear fur... But there's a point at which this whole "animal rights" thing has gone far enough. Case in point, I was reading a conversation between some idiot lady and another guy at a forum... The guy was asking what to do with his goldfish, 'cos it was sick or something. So the lady said "you should find a nice river or pond to set it free in!", to which he responded and explained that he would really just be killing the fish without seeing it... So then the lady went on this huge "I'd rather die free than live caged!" rant. And she went on and on about how ALL animals should be wild and how nobody should force their pets to live with them.. That was bizarre.

yah sure....I'd love to leave my dogs out in the wild.....aka on the streets.

Where they can be hit by a car, become disease ridden, and then starve to death.

I hate PITA too...

Exactly. And these PETA people are insane, I found a page on their website telling you to mail a jar of dog shit to Iams for some reason.

PETA people are crazy, they take everything too far...

I don't believe in killing animals simply for their fur...have any of you ever seen a chinchilla? They're one of the cutest animals there are, but they're hunted to make fur coats. And they're TINY animals, about the size of a ferret. So how many d'you think is needed to make a single coat? A hell of a lot.

Also, on something that I'm shocked hasn't been brought up here as much...animal testing. I used to be on the debate team at my school, and one of the debates I did was on animal testing. I researched this for weeks, and the stuff I found out about it was enough to make it so that I will never, EVER buy anything that has been tested on animals. If anyone wants me to, I can try and find my notes from that today and post some of the stuff I found out.

I found something on another forum, somebody had posted an email from a less known animal rights group called "The Fund 4 Horses" or something. (actually, from what I've heard they're fairly infamous on all the horse/animal related internet forums) Basically it was a page long rant about some bill that was being introduced that was going to ban the practice of horse slaughter for meat sale overseas. Parts of it were in all caps, in short they were just telling you to post this everywhere you could and to flood your representative with email, letters, phone calls, etc... That was stupid. It's a shame so many of these places resort to things like that, the idea is a good one, but how they actually expect that to work... I don't know.

I'll see if I can dig up my animal research notes today, then...they're from two years ago so it shall be interesting to see if I can remember where I put them, though

....

I supplied that link to PETA so that you all could see what is behind the animal-rights movement. I do not necessarily agree with everything that they say or do as in every good body there is bound to be a few nutters. ( extremists ). This is not to say that the greatest number of PETA members don't have their hearts in the right place; as they do.

Of course humans should not be cruel to humans but by supporting this cause you are not barred from caring about cruelty to animals too.

It's not that bizarre - I would never have a domesticated animal as a pet. The idea of castrating animals to make them docile enough to bully into a relationship with humans is whats bizarre; it just doesnt seem that way because so many people do it.

peta is almost militant sometimes

but cows are demesticated, they serve no purpose besides to be born, live, and then eaten.
fuzzy coat animals live in the wild and they serve a purpose to keep vermin and stuff down so they dont eep into our cities and towns.

bizarre as you see it, its probably in the interest of the animal to live with you, rather than in the wild. a dog that is dimesticated will live almost twice as long as one in the wild. a demesticated dog gets free food instead of having to run after stuff and kill it.

I find that odd too. I'd never castrate my pet, that's just wrong. So what if they scratch up the couch and hump everything that moves? It'd be fun watching it.

thats a bit over the edge.
and she definatly needs to get out alittle more, cause alot of people dont make their pets...well their cats, live with them. my cat lived outside, had no collar, i just put food out for him, and if he was around id pet him. everyday, there he was scrathing at the door for me to give him attention, and that was the most wild cat id ever seen, one of my neighbors actually called animal control to pick him up cause they thought he was a feral cat, we had to go pick him up at the shelter.

That's awesome. I have a relative whose cat is let out everyday, and she usually returns with a dead bird or mouse, and even a bat once! I love watching animals hunt, and cats are exceptional at it.

my cat brought home a bat once....it was freaky

That argument is nonsense (sorry if it seems im picking on you - its just that you are the only person saying anything worth reading tonight)

Saying we have canine teeth so we are supposed to eat meat is like saying "we get erect 5 times a day so we should still be raping women like cro-magnon man did" We have evolved as a species and are able to make moral judgements with regards to what we think is right. Thats what vegetarians do - and thats what meant eaters do also, saying they eat meat because there teeth demand it is irrational.

the fact we have canine teeth isnt th only reason we should eat meat, meat has alot of proteain and other junk that vegetables dont have, even if people eat eggs to get protein, its not the same as eating a steak

Please tell me what this mystery ingredient in meat that cant be found anywhere else is ?

If Animal right activist care more about animals, then what do Human right activist care more about? Is a flip-flop. Both groups care for their causes.

Anyways, think of those poor Space apes.

protein, B vitamins, B-complex vitamins, iron and zinc, are highly abundant in meat.

"We know that adults need a minimum of 1 gram of protein for every kilogram of body weight per day to keep from slowly breaking down their own tissues."
"Some of the protein you eat contains all the amino acids needed to construct new proteins. This kind is called complete protein. Animal sources of protein tend to be complete. Other protein lacks one or more amino acids that the body can't make from scratch or create by modifying another amino acid. Called incomplete proteins, these usually come from fruits, vegetables, grains, and nuts."
(harvard school of public health)

Well, first of all, you can't say you're "bullying" a dog into having a relationship with humans, they've been domesticated for thousands of years, and even if they aren't castrated... They WANT to live with people, that's just the way a lot of domestic animals are.

But that wasn't really my point--my point was that if I have a dog or a fish or something, I'm not going to go set it free so it can be "the way it was meant to be". That's essentially just another way of killing your pet.

You have Noooooo Idea how much of a relief it is to hear that.

yeah, i agree... jesus mr zero, that kid behind the tree in your sig is freaky. well, im not sure if this animal thing is just a phase for me, but i definately don't think its right for rich plastic-surgery-obsessed celebrites (or basically anybody) to wear fur. its not right to take a wild animal out of its natural environment and kill it simply because it's fashionable and will be shown on some runway- i mean half of these people only wear their minx coats once or twice. it's not like it's something you would really wear out and about. i think its wrong to electrocute or drown a defenseless creature. that's not what nature intended.

I eat meat because it's delicious. And whenever I'm with someone who complains about it, I eat more of it.

I do the same!

I like to tell the meat eaters who ask me what i will do for food if I get stranded in the wild/on an island etc that I have no trouble about eating meat if required - and that humans are easier to catch than animals.

& I mean it.

Hey, meat is meat. If I had to, I'd slow roast a human and pick the flesh from his bones.

Hah, makes sense.

I know people who don't eat meat because the genuinely don't like the taste of it. They don't like the idea that it's flesh and organs which is fair enough. Well it's fair enough if they don't wanna eat it for any reasons, it doesn't effect me. I just can't stand it when they whine, ***** and moan about it. I eat meat, you don't. I'm not forcing you to eat meat. You don't like it, cool. I do, so shut up.

-AC

I feel exactly the same - most veggies are a pain in the ass...

It's frustrating. I bought this pair of shoes a while ago and this one person wouldn't stop saying how nasty they thought they were. I said "Well I like em" the first time. Then they carried on, I just don't get it.

I'm not asking you to put them on your feet. You don't like them so don't look at them. I do so I'm wearing them. The same applies with meat. I eat it, if you don't want to then don't.

The most dedicated veggies are ones that are actually cool with it for the most part. It's the ones who doubt their decision to BECOME vegan that ***** and moan just out of internal conflictions.

-AC

Mr Zero....and anybody...

Humans are actually omnivores and we do have "vampire" teeth, ( canines ), because we evolved to be able to tear flesh with the incisors and canines, ( dog-teeth ) at the front and to be able to crush and grind bones and roots, ( prehistoric man didn't have market-gardens ), with the molars at the back.

If we didn't need these prehistoric teeth we would soon, ( a few thousand years ), lose them and finish up with hard gums in order to suck sap with. ( At the moment we are not sap-suckers ).

Yes, do not underestimate the ability for humans to eat ANYTHING that comes to their fancy...especially if they are hungry....AND we still have the right equipment in our mouths to do this with !