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wat do u guys think?

i dont think

Cyclops.

cyke, one optic blast and the torch will crash and burn(forgive the pun)

I'm not sure. How much of Cyke's blast is heat and how much is concussive?

no heat whatsoever as far as i know (marvel site)

Are you serious?

Cyclops' blast is pretty damn powerful (concussive blast, not heat), but he'd need a lot more than that to take Johnny Storm. Can you say Supernova Blast?

yea cyclops has no protection from getting his ass lit on fire

Torch has more maneuverability and the Nova Blast - he wins.

The Torch has this one, exp if he goes super nova but i think that might be over kill.

Cyclops?

People actually think Cyclops would win this?

Human Torch would incinerate him in seconds. Scott sits on the ground shooting up at torch, while Torch just rains down on his head.

Scott can't dodge the torch like the torch can dodge Scott.

Ever heard what Spiderman thinks of the Human Torch? He feels like Storm goes around fighting bad guys in cruise control. Johnny would just fly a circle of flame around Cyke and then take off to go eat lunch while Cyke was fryed alive.

If they were seperated and it was a hunt for one another cyke may stand a chance of getting a good line on torch. If cyke did hit him he'd punch a hole straight through him that he would never have even felt comming. Have you ever seen one of those rifles with the lazer sight, that's cyke.
Johnny would terminate him the instant he see him, there is no question on that. The only question is is cyke good enough to get of a blast that tears johnny apart in return. Cyke used to be billed with his blast the same as Cap. was with his throwing and catching of his shield.
In this case it's all a matter of sight. Whoever sees the other one first wins.

Yah, but i think Johnny could take an Optic blast and still continue to fight after a little while.

I'm sure the inital blast would cause his flame to go out and that he'd be lying on the floor for a moment, but he'd pull himself together sooner or later...and just fry Cyclops.

I agree Torch can beat Cyclops, but then again...

Who's the clever one ? Cyclops.
Who's the better fighter ? Cyclops.

Torch depends way too much on his firepowers, where Cyclops also uses his brains while fighting. And I don't think that Torch can survive a full hit of Cyclops (who rarely misses, by the way).

well the "better fighter" point should be a mute point.

You can't exactly "grab" the Human Torch and punch his lights out.

This is going to be a battle of projectiles, and thus far, i've see flames burn people, but i've never seen the optic blast do much more than give someone a little scortch.

Better Fighter : in the way that he is a much better strategist (and also mano a mano).

Well, Wolverine did it once, so it is possible (but granted, Cyclops is no Wolverine).

Probably.

Wow, Scotts optic blast is very powerful. It can blast a car away like it's nothing ! Like I said, Torch can not survive a full hit of his blast.

And Cyclops is a master in calculating a complicated trajectory of his optic beams. Torch is good with his flames, but nothing more.

cyclops can behead a sentinel with one blast, granted the torch is strong, but if he takes a direct hit from an optic blast hes out for the count

um yea since the Torch has been a hero practicing his flames longer than Summers why would anyone assume Cyclops id more skilled?...because he is a cocky leader who acts like he knows everything....he is still Amateur compared to the Torch who has more experience and more exposure to higher powered enemies...Torch has complete mastery of his flame and can manipulate it to do anything...Cyclops is pretty tough...but the Torch would dispatch him for sure

this is a retarted fight, this one all depends on who hits first, cuz neither one of these guys can take mutch, and as fast and as tuff torch is, i say cykes would hit him first, simply becuase it is imposible for cyclops to miss, unless the target is going faster than the speed of light, wich torch cant do

I've seen Cyclops miss, so I most certainly wouldn't sit here giving him the kind of accuracy credentials that he's being given. It's Scott Summers, not Bullseye.

Human Torch IS the man. Have you ever heard what Spiderman has had to say about him? Spiderman says that the Human Torch "toys with him" when they battle.

Human Torch can hurl flames from a higher vantage point with both hands while flying around avoiding attacks. He can mask himself behind a shrowd of flame that Scott wouldn't even be able to see beyond, and rain fire down on him until there is no more Cyclops left.

Human Torch is one of Marvel's greatest heroes....Cyclops is just some goofy guy with a cool visor.

untrue, the fact is it is so rare for cyclops really to let go and fire at full strength, so how do we know he wouldnt obliterate the torch. And johnny is way to cocky, also cyclops is a master tactician, hell always be a step ahead of torch

Cyclops can hit Torch with his blast easily. Did anyone tell you that he cleared a room full of people with one blast. He counted where it would hit and hit all of them. Oh, and he didn't hit any of the people, he hit only their guns. This happened in Uncanny X-Men 392.
dance

yeah, he can be like a surgeon when he wants to with that optic blast

you guys seriously give the torch far too little credit and Cyclops far too much.

He IS STUCK ON THE GROUND.

Now if he had somewhere to run for cover...that may change things a bit. But it's a simple fact. Being in the air is an advantage to being on the ground.

I think that Cyclops would snatch him off air.

your doing the opposite. i know torch is powerful, he is, hes gone up against the best in the business, but cyke is smarter, he would use being stuck on the ground to his advantage, one thing cyke excels at is using everything at his disposal in a given situation.

I admit, i'm giving Cyclops no credit, because the guy is a poser. He doesn't impress me in the least.

And being on the ground is not an advantage, and hasn't been an advantage since World War 1 which was before advanced aviation enabled adequate aerial assaults.

Scott shoots one beam...if he misses...he's toast. The Human Torch is deadlier and has more room for error.

i hate Cyclops.

me too...and seeing him in the movies only helped cement my idea that he's a little b!tch.

yes in the movie he was a *****, fair enough, but in the comics he isnt, hes actually quite powerfull, whether u hate him or not

Sorry for the Torch lovers, but do I have to count the times little Storm acted without thinking ? (Torch no, wait... ka-blam... oops, guess we'll have to fight this villain without your brother, Susan) He's nowhere the strategist, fighter and clever leader that Cyclops is. Facts !

He's much too hotheaded. Cyclops always keeps his cool.

And I really believe Cyclops has mastered his optic beams more than Torch has mastered his firepowers, though I can not prove it.

Cyclops started his training before Torch. Cyclops is older and he was what, like 14-15 when he went to the X-Men? Torch got his powers when he was about 20...

u dont have to prove it, the proof is in any comics with either of them in it. great point about him being hotheaded, he loses his temper too easily.

dude, is is literaly imposible for cykes to miss, think about it, he looks at something, beams travel at near the speed of light, in a straight line, to wut he is looking at because the beams come straght from his eyes, therefore, he cant miss

torch got his powers when he was 20?....what highschool has 20 year olds in it cuz that is when he got his powers...and Torch has far outmastered cyclops in skill...ever see when he fought Graviton?...a guy who humbled the entire avengers

first hit = winner

Oh. I forgot Torch's age. I just thought that Reed would be intelligent enough to not let an underage to spaceship in testing. Well, still, Cyclops has more skill.

Impossible to miss?

Tsk....tsk. Scott has missed before, and you know NOTHING of the speed at which his Optic Blast travels so don't go claiming that it travels "near the speed of light" unless you have some way of backing it up.

It is most certainly not IMPOSSIBLE for him to miss. He can't JUST look at a target and kill it, he has to POINT HIS ENTIRE HEAD at the target in order to hit him.

What happens if the Human Torch makes a wall of fire in the sky that shrouds him from Cyclops view?

Roast Cyclops for dinner....

Torch has to many advantages over Cyc to lose.

your right about one thing, cyclops can miss, his blast does not fire at the speed of light or near it, but it is fast.

do u think cyclops at full power wouldnt cut through torch's wall of fire like a hot knife through butter?

Cut through it? no problem.

But could Cyclops see through it? or past it? No, probably not. While he's up there looking at this blanket of fire, trying to pinpoint the Human Torch. Johnny could be raining fire down on him.

I like Cyc as much as the next guy but all he has is range ability while Human Torch has that and the ability of flight.

i agree with that, but cyke has more experience than torch also, u might not agree with that, but experience counts for a lot in battle

i don't necessarily think his experience will be the determining factor. Like Who-Kid said...Torch's short temper and his tendency to jump into things before assessing them will be his biggest disadvantage.


I think we've all concluded that whoever hits the other first is pretty much going to win. And Human Torch would probably do something careless that would cost him this fight.

couldnt have put it better myself.

* yeah, Torch is a reckless wisecrack... Cyke wins...

I dunno. Something tells me light-speed optic blasts travel faster than Human Torch's flames.

Probably cuz it's true.

As soon as the fight begins, Cyke can off him with one blow. He's not going to miss that flashy character.

Cyke wins.

Torch did careless stuff all the time...in the 60's. Where did he do something wreckless lately. He beat Graviton back in the early nineties. When was the last time Cyke beat someone that powerful?

I am not so sure Cyclops rays shoot at the speed of light.......

1) People dodge them and no way a person or mutant could dodge light.....faster then thought

2) If Scotts beams actually travelled as fast as light they wouldn't just be concussive because they would generate heat and would be heat/concussive blasts......

I don't know how fast Torch flies but I know if he makes a hot circle of flame around cyclops then cyclops won't see much cuz he would have to close his eyes or bad things happen to them

* bro, before Torch can circle around Cyke, he would probably been hit by Cyke...

Torch is one of the best ariel combatants in the MU. His flame allows him to do 90 and 180 degree turns as fast as his body will physically allow. He has dodged guys like Galactus, Occulu, and Devos, who had cosmic awareness and computer guidance aiming at him..as well as much more powerful weapons. Cyc is a joke. Torch could make a dozen flame replicas of himself like he did against Graviton and kill Cyclops from the comfort of his living room.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Torch is one of the best ariel combatants in the MU. His flame allows him to do 90 and 180 degree turns as fast as his body will physically allow. He has dodged guys like Galactus, Occulu, and Devos, who had cosmic awareness and computer guidance aiming at him..as well as much more powerful weapons. Cyc is a joke. Torch could make a dozen flame replicas of himself like he did against Graviton and kill Cyclops from the comfort of his living room.

And I don't doubt that at all about the Human Torch.

All that we're trying to say is that Cyke hits him before that even happens. As soon as the light turns green, Cyke has already blasted him. HT isn't dodging anything coming at him that fast from the very start. Especially not from a marksman like Cyclops.

Now, if HT was attacking Cyke when he wasn't ready for a fight, then yes. HT could use all of those tactics to win. But not when Cyke is prepared for the fight. He just needs to freakin look at him.

Cyke wins.

Have u ever seen Cyk shoot the torch?

Just so everyone knows, Cyclop's blasts highly resemble the blasts of Blastaar...except his are much stronger. Torch can take a shot from him, (like most energy attacks but not many people here read enough F4 to know this) and when he does he converts the concussive force into heat energy and immediately goes into Nova flame.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Just so everyone knows, Cyclop's blasts highly resemble the blasts of Blastaar...except his are much stronger. Torch can take a shot from him, (like most energy attacks but not many people here read enough F4 to know this) and when he does he converts the concussive force into heat energy and immediately goes into Nova flame.

So you're telling me, that Human Torch can immediately convert this concussive force blast (which derives from some unknown dimension) into heat energy?

I know I don't read too much Fantastic Four...but what the hell. I hope I read that wrong, Wynndar.

Originally posted by Wynndar
Have u ever seen Cyk shoot the torch?

* plain dumb... how 'bout this: have you ever seen Torch burn Cyke?

* sayin' Cyke's a joke... well, this "joke" rarely lets his guard down, not unlike Torch who is a reckless kid...

* Torch turning Cyke's blast into what?!

* Cyke is not stupid like you think he is, he'll shoot Torch the moment he got the opportunity, Cyke wins this, definitely...

bump

Torch could take this , but he'd have to go nova instantly , and even then I'm not 100% sure that it could take out cykes.

Originally posted by peejayd

* sayin' Cyke's a joke... well, this "joke" rarely lets his guard down, not unlike Torch who is a reckless kid...


Not anymore. Johnny has hands down the most uncontrollable powers of Fantastic Four. When Invisible Woman and he traded their powers, she was barely able to control them even when concetrating. The reason why Johnny has on and off relationships so much is because he gradually pushes his girlfriends away because he could hurt them so much by if he let his guard down and his powers would spiral out of control.

All Cyke has to do to control his powers is to close his eyes or wear his glasses. With Johnnys powers, it requires much more control and restrain. You can't be allowed to be reckless with powers like that, or you'll kill everybody near you.
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/1912/hardtocontrol18ld.th.gif
http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/2213/hardtocontrol26od.th.gif

There is some severe Cyclops underestimation going on here. On the other hand, I think everybody is getting a good handle on Torch's powers and personality.

Torch is offensively powerful and manueverable, but he's not fast enough to escape Cyclop's aim, and not durable enough to withstand even a mid-level optic blast. Sure, Torch can shroud himself in fire screens and go Nova, but Scott can just as easily release wide-area optic blast, knocking Johnny and everything else in the area into the next county.

If Johnny were a true speedster or had higher durability, things might be different, but since this fight comes down to a "who shoots first with better aim" scenario, the odds are with Cyclops every time.

Originally posted by Acrosurge
There is some severe Cyclops underestimation going on here. On the other hand, I think everybody is getting a good handle on Torch's powers and personality.

Torch is offensively powerful and manueverable, but he's not fast enough to escape Cyclop's aim, and not durable enough to withstand even a mid-level optic blast. Sure, Torch can shroud himself in fire screens and go Nova, but Scott can just as easily release wide-area optic blast, knocking Johnny and everything else in the area into the next county.

If Johnny were a true speedster or had higher durability, things might be different, but since this fight comes down to a "who shoots first with better aim" scenario, the odds are with Cyclops every time.

As for durability:

He can take a direct hit from Terminus:
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humantorchfeat11ic.gif
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humantorchfeat29og.gif

And Annihilus:
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28610502757.gif&s=x2

And as for speed the his powers work and moving speed:
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humantorchfeat35cj.gif
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humantorchfeat40dy.gif
http://x10.putfile.com/10/28514250248.gif
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28609290874.gif&s=x2
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28609510758.gif&s=x2
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28610473530.gif&s=x2
http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/2535/humantorchfeat138ib.gif

I'll actually say that Torch takes the majority.

I doubt that Terminus hit Torch full power though. Cyke simply shoots Johnny and put the flames out. I really don't see Torch winning this @ all.

I think that's a high end showings compared to the norm. I mean seriously, why would his powerset entail durability enough even moreso than reed against that blow. That's ludicrous.

Even annihilus even commented that he's just flesh. And also basing on Torch's power and flight scan, he nearly ain't as accurate as Cyke.

Originally posted by Sixth_Winged
I think that's a high end showings compared to the norm. I mean seriously, why would his powerset entail durability enough even moreso than reed against that blow. That's ludicrous.

Even annihilus even commented that he's just flesh. And also basing on Torch's power and flight scan, he nearly ain't as accurate as Cyke.

No, but he was firing many, many bolts at once.

Torch has also taken punches from Namor and survived, even though he was knocked out.

Besides, how is Cyke going to hit something when he doesn't know which one is the real deal?
http://putfile.com/pic.php?pic=10/28609290874.gif&s=x2

By taking off his visor and let it rip, not to mention unlike multiple shooting, it doesn't have any gap where Johnny could dodge to.

And him taking punches from Namor probably was something that wasn't meant to kill from Namor. Otherwise he'd be mush. But even say he survived it, he still got knocked out and if it reflects on the match, it constitutes a win.

Which one really takes more time...him taking off his visor or Johnny launching an attack that burns Cyclops?

Because it really doesn't take Torch a long time. Maybe a second.
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humantorchfeat35cj.gif

lol, this is a pertty good theead actually, thread even, i think both characters are being underestimated here kinda, while cycs is very accurate, its not like torch is an incredibly slow moving object ready to be struck, that combind with the fact that torch has the advantage of flight, if he flew back far enough, short of light speed optic blasts (although they are very quick) torch could literally scorch the earth that cyc stands on, it could go either way, this would be a pertty situational fight

* just give Cyke a mere sec, or maybe less than a sec, Torch will be blown away... if written without bullcrap, Cyke should never miss a target, plus his "other" ability about "spacial trigonometry", Cyke is a genius in the mastery of his mutant power... Cyke wins 9.99/10 IMO... with the 0.01/10 chance that Cyke "misses" his first shot...

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Which one really takes more time...him taking off his visor or Johnny launching an attack that burns Cyclops?

Because it really doesn't take Torch a long time. Maybe a second.
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humantorchfeat35cj.gif

Cyclops. Flame travels slower even if Johnny had the first go(which really wouldn't have a large timelapse anyway) and the concussive nature of the Optic blast would push right through Johnny's flame and hit him. Even with the visor, he can still do wide arcs.

Originally posted by DarkCrawler
Which one really takes more time...him taking off his visor or Johnny launching an attack that burns Cyclops?

Because it really doesn't take Torch a long time. Maybe a second.
http://img384.imageshack.us/my.php?image=humantorchfeat35cj.gif I thought I should mention that Cyclops doesn't need to take off his visor for big, freakin' blasts. When he does, it's purely for style, as when Magneto gestures to use his mutant powers.