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Who's words hold more value?

No matter what comic character is your favorite, sometimes we
come across bad writings by idiot writers who neglects to understand
the true nature of a character's powers and ends up writing
inconsistancies with regards to a character's powers and abilities.

Should the fact that the writers holds the pencil to dictate
the life of our characters but sometimes get it wrong. Should
we accept these errors as fact or should the opinions of the
fans who sometimes knows much more than they do matter more?

Your thoughts..

Good thread. Everybody who has read comics, knows big mistakes are made by the writers. I often ask myself if these so-called writers actually know their characters...

I think it's stupid to complain the rest of your life about the fact that your favorite hero looked dumb in this and that scene, where he, according to you, should have kicked ass. It happened, so end of story.

But at the same time, when it's being discussed, I don't mind pointing out that it was a mistake of the writer. I do not accept everything, and some stories or whatever are (almost) unforgivable.

Great thread.when screenwriters take on a comicbook film,they should listen to what some of the fans say and their imput because these days hollywood seems to always screw up a comicbook in some way or another by not being loyal to the source material.They seem to always screw it up in one way or another with the casting choices for the role casting someone who is so physically wrong for the role and doesnt even come close to fitting the part or someone who is ugly and for some pretty girl-give you a hint,it was a girl comicbook character this summer they screwed up on because of that,or trying to add a new twist by doing their own little thing ignoring how it will piss off thousands of comicbook fans.Superman and dick tracy are comicbook movies that come to mind where they actually stayed loyal to the source material and it was true to the comic.But most comicbook movies since then-two that were released this past summer,seem to always betray the character and the source material in one way or another.Holllywood just seems to screw it up all the time these days.

I think that as long as it stays in the main continuity of the characters exsistance then it is fine.

I don't like seeing new skills or abilities being pulled of in One Shots and Crossover comics.

Those comics should be nothing new, just a display of the previously mentioned powers.



Like I heard about Venom's drool being poisonous and acidic once...which is bullsh!t.

Or Juggernaut "reaching his potential" by growing 50 ft. in the air.

hell even Hulk lifting that mountain in Secret Wars was far fetched. Some other heroes should have HAD to help out in order to lift that much weight.

no one cares about your rants...

^ Too true. Spiderman 1 & 2 kicked ass. They followed the basic storyline, but did a couple of new things to create this sort of reaction.

The changes should be embraced, not shunned.

right on...

No they should be shunned BIG TIME because they are plain idiotic.

Like you? Guess you should be shunned.

Begin shunning.

AS for characters being badly written... I think Wolvie' takes the cake. Surviving a goddamn nuke! Thats such bullshit.

Originally posted by Scoobless


Damit scoobless

it's better than writing "bump"



but it's not a bad thread, a lot of writers do seem to be lacking in knowledge of certain characters backgrounds..... on occasion

Originally posted by Scoobless
it's better than writing "bump"



but it's not a bad thread, a lot of writers do seem to be lacking in knowledge of certain characters backgrounds..... on occasion

Well in the marvel side you can blame Joe and the Editors for not doing there jobs.

yep, look at jms and spider-man, some goo some bad, i think the fans should hold sway

I'm just waiting for the day Geoff Johns' contract at DC runs out, so Marvel can jump on it. Johns has so much sh*t to fix over there.

As much as the writers can make mistakes and exaggerate, they are the pros getting paid. If we think we can do better, write some stories and prove it.
I bet Alan Moore is the only writer who's never been given harsh criticism. Not that he deserves any - the man's almost a God in the industry.

Ha, good thread.

Yeah, writing can be bad sometimes in terms of character continuity....but we have to remember that writers are (nearly always) trying to write for the sake of a great story....not for the sake of demented internet fanboys (i.e. all of us) who need continuity within characters to make solid arguments about hypothetical fights. We're at once the target audience (since we take it seriously) and the last people they're writing it for.

Lapses in powers and random PIS will always happen, and half the fun is sifting through it all to find some sort of cohesive truth.

Originally posted by Tron
I'm just waiting for the day Geoff Johns' contract at DC runs out, so Marvel can jump on it. Johns has so much sh*t to fix over there.
The day Johns signs with Marvel is the day I become a Marvel zombie. I'm doubting this day will come.

The worst examples of writers being inconsistant obviously
surround Wolverine and X-Men. I think this is more due to
wanting to keep the fanbase happy at all costs.
Marvel's writing has been pretty top-notch from day 1 to about 1990.
Things went downhill since then. The only people Marvel could
count on at the time to buy the books without questioning the writing
were the X-Fans (later to devolve into "Fanboys".
So Marvel has spent the last 15 years writing utter bullcrap just to
keep these loyal fanboys happy. Hence, secondary mutations, Claremont's
over-exaggeration of powers, Wolverine's schizo healing factor, etc.

That's why you have to take averages into consideration. Doom took a shot from Thanos with the IG and lived. Doom also got shortsircuited by Squirrel Girl. Doom took a shot from Beyonder. Doom's armor also got overloaded by Luke Cage. The solution is simple - disregard them all and look to consistency in the bulk of his showings. That puts Doom's armor at around Iron Man's level - the ability to hold off CL100 strength for a limited amount of time.

We should really take that approach with all characters.

Originally posted by demigawd
That's why you have to take averages into consideration. Doom took a shot from Thanos with the IG and lived. Doom also got shortsircuited by Squirrel Girl. Doom took a shot from Beyonder. Doom's armor also got overloaded by Luke Cage. The solution is simple - disregard them all and look to consistency in the bulk of his showings. That puts Doom's armor at around Iron Man's level - the ability to hold off CL100 strength for a limited amount of time.

We should really take that approach with all characters.

Yea, I totally agree with you. But my question is this: these guys are getting paid (pretty well I'd think) to write about these characters, would it kill them to thumb through a some of the old books?

Originally posted by TheKahn
Yea, I totally agree with you. But my question is this: these guys are getting paid (pretty well I'd think) to write about these characters, would it kill them to thumb through a some of the old books?

The thing is - it's really easy to extrapolate. You've been on these boards long enough to see it before your eyes. People look at a scan and interpret it multiple ways - some of those ways suggest a power that other people would insist doesn't exist because they interpret the scan a totally different way.

Originally posted by demigawd
The thing is - it's really easy to extrapolate. You've been on these boards long enough to see it before your eyes. People look at a scan and interpret it multiple ways - some of those ways suggest a power that other people would insist doesn't exist because they interpret the scan a totally different way.

*coughwolverinecough*

lol

Originally posted by demigawd
The thing is - it's really easy to extrapolate. You've been on these boards long enough to see it before your eyes. People look at a scan and interpret it multiple ways - some of those ways suggest a power that other people would insist doesn't exist because they interpret the scan a totally different way.

I agree that there will always be a degree of uncertainity and personal interpretation when it comes to both fans and writers. Reasonable people can disagree and both have logical reasoning, but sometimes writers exhibit extreme levels of either stupidity or ignorance that is unbelieveable.

A good example is Adamantum. It a simple concept of being a unbreakable, indestructible metal. Simple enough. Now what do writers do? Well, they have somebody break or destroy it, of course. Then they have to come up with the concept of "secondary" adamantum to cover their asses.

I tend to give the fans a little more slack because they might be just casual fans who might not know all the showings of every character or may be misled by the bad writing.

Hardcore fans... you gotta respect continuity but in a vs. respect sometimes people are just wrong.

Originally posted by TheKahn
I agree that there will always be a degree of uncertainity and personal interpretation when it comes to both fans and writers. Reasonable people can disagree and both have logical reasoning, but sometimes writers exhibit extreme levels of either stupidity or ignorance that is unbelieveable.


True...there's a lot of creative license applied to certain characters. The problem is that for some characters, there's never been a real precedent set. Wolverine is a good example. How strong is he....really? The truth is, it's unknown. For every human-level strength feat, there's a meta-level strength feat. If I were a writer for Wolverine...where do I put him when there's an almost even split in his strength level. What becomes the base upon which I build my interpretation of the character? And the older a character is, the bigger the problem.



True, and that can be both abused and used well. Abused in the case of Doom, because it's the case of a fanboy writer wanting his character to be unbeatable, so he took license to retcon everything that makes his favorite look bad with the cursed Doombot. Used well in the case of SOME Thanos feats. Thanos losing to Kazar should have never happened - the Thanosbot was necessary to preserve the integrity of the character.



I just see writers as fans with paychecks and power. They're prone to the same failings. And that's what makes the editors' jobs so important. They're the voice of consistency, and I fault them for most of the problems plaguing characters.

Originally posted by demigawd
That's why you have to take averages into consideration. Doom took a shot from Thanos with the IG and lived. Doom also got shortsircuited by Squirrel Girl. Doom took a shot from Beyonder. Doom's armor also got overloaded by Luke Cage. The solution is simple - disregard them all and look to consistency in the bulk of his showings. That puts Doom's armor at around Iron Man's level - the ability to hold off CL100 strength for a limited amount of time.

We should really take that approach with all characters.

Agreed .... Therefore Thor cannot lift objects the size of planets, and Herc cannot move the Island of Manhattan , Thanos and the Silver Surfer cannot destroy planets , Gladiator cannot move at 100 x the speed of light and destroy planets with single hits ..... D.C. moves at the speed of time

Keep the faith

My name is not Whirly punk