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They're out there doing it anyway, they should get taxed for it just like any other worker (even if they're freelancing) and they should pay student tuition fees.

Not that I'm thinking of a change in career.

all for it, in belgium we have a kind of legalised prostitution

(scratches head)

Tricky...

I'm for it, but then again, if it were legalized, I'd always be broke.

here in the states it is called escort services--legal

Prostitution=illegal

there is a difference but
well no real hookers can be legal in belgium. it allows them to have some sort of pention and better working conditions (force by the goverment) and it protects them against exploitation and such

That's like a posh word for "hooker service" right? I've read up on them (again not because I'm considering a career change) but it always says no copulation involved but women who have been in the "profession" say that sex is always involved?

Umm.. BF, are you saying you'd be broke because.. you'd be taxed from your earnings .. as a prostitute???!

No, I'd purchase their services constantly.

well in THEORY an escort does not GUARANTEE sex

but in Practice 95% of them are just up class hookers

Well....like Ush said... its tricky...

To leave it illegal or not to legalise mans oldest proffession....

I never saw the reason to keep it illegal

Yeah. I mean, I can see all the logical reasons that exist for legalising it.

But... umm... it is a big deal. There could be some very negative consequences. It is like the drugs argument- there could be good reason for its illegality despite the existing underground market.

maybe
but in belgium they thought/think
by legalizing it we will have a bigger shot at finding the illegal immigrants and the underaged boys and girls who work like that

It is the same logic with drugs. If you legalise it you can destroy the worst parts of the underground system. But it might still bring as many problems as it solves.

How about making up an agency where prostitutes get paid by "shift" and earn tips like bartenders? And we can't forget that sex has to be protected toooooo.

Excort services exist here as well, but I haven't read up on much about the British ones. Maybe some old ugly guy just pays for a pretty young thing to be seen with at restaurants or something?

There is an idea that it could encourage a highly defective morality, and the idea that sex is a product to be bought. That can lead to some bad places.

Yeah...

Also, im sure many religious groups will disagree with this, protest and make problems...i dont think it will work as an agency

It might...

Also, to an extent greater than drugs, parts of the underground market will still exist after legalisation- for those who want anonymity, less hassle, and illegal trade.

On the OTHER hand... hmmm... tricky...

sorry but I think being a prostitution is WRONG!!!!! I mean sex is a thing that is suppose to between a husband and wife or at least two people who really love each other. it should not just be a thrill from the street......and it is NOT a real job! it is disgusting!, a real job is something you can be proud of, even if you dont like where you working you are still making money by good hard work. Prostitution is just sick! and any body who has Morals would realize that!

But as Asami said, they are already doing it...many women are. Those women obviously dont see it like that...

I was inspired by that song by City High - remember a few years ago they had a single called "What Would You Do?" I think the chorus went something like "What would you do if your son was at home, crying all alone on the bedroom floor, 'cos he's hungry and the only thing you can do is sleep with a man for a little bit of money..."

Suppose someone seriously felt as though they were at a dead end and that was their only way to make a livng?

It definitely is complicated, I would like to see everyone who works as whatever to get taxed, but as Ushgarak brought up earlier: drugs. Don't want any drugs flying around, dealers getting taxed?!

I think test-eating pet foods is sick.. But some people still do it as a job. Yuck.

Yeah, a real headache this one.

will in this case we have a modern day test case belgium...

Maybe I'll consider a career in Belgium....







Not to do with prositution.

blast...had my hopes up for a minute there...

But maybe as a Madam

keeping it illegal means that the gov't doesn't condone prostitution....it's a moral issue thing

not another one of these threads *slams head on keaboard*

absolutely NOT! Prostitution is another form of exploting women! Girls are trick into beliving that prostitution is the easeist way to make money and if It was up to me, I would have those animals that exploit them thrown in jail! By that I mean PIMPS! prostitution should be ilegal!

So...I'm not supporting the pimps or anything, but it's not the hooker's fault? At all?

I am not for legalizing prostitution. It's demeaning and not natural. If you believe as I do, sex was created for making babies. Sure, it's fun every once in a while, but regardless, paying for it is NOT right. Giving it for money, just the same is NOT right.

right!

Its not that simple as in 'yes' or 'no' answers...

there are good and bad points to both arguments...

Xena... Nobody is forcing these women to be prostitutes... It's their decision to make...

Anyways, this is an interesting issue. Though I do think women who do it are a little odd, I almost pity them in a way. Society looks down on them like the scum of the Earth. They're just trying to make a living the only way they know how. I'm undecided as of yet on this one.... I keep going around in circles--on the one hand, there would be too much of it going on if it was legal, but I think that they should be protected by the law to some extent, only that would mean government intervention, which couldn't happen unless it was legal...

Taking money for sexual services is not actually illegal Asami, soliciting, advertising and offerring said services is illegal. It is also illegal for a 3rd party to earn money from said services ie a madam or a pimp etc.

Because I believe in finding a woman to love, I would never, ever condone anyone who believes that prostitution is acceptable in society.
The very concept of paying a strange woman to satisfy sexual needs is really disgusting and it should stay illegal.

Let's remember that MEN also sell themselves, not just WOMEN.

I would go for yes, prostitution was, is and always will be here. you can't change that

so, instead of keeping it illegal and therefor creating a very hazardeous envirement for the girls/guys in the bussiness, where they get transported from poor countries under fals promises and such, with legalising the stuff, you can openly control and check the envirement, get the girls or guys to do medical tests for any deceases and such and have a look on the condom use too

in other words, if you make it legal, imho, it would be much safer for the visitor: safe sex and for the ones in the job cause there is now control and them getting exploited will have a high chance of stopping

Oh of course, sorry.

But the same applies to both-it doesn't change my opinion about it.

There are countless ETHICAL ways for the regime to economise to accomdate student tuition fees. ie, alot of projects that the ruling classes squander taxpayers money on are unethical, take just one example; their funding of Al-quaeda and other such terrorist groups.

This is a bit like the legalising drugs thread. I don't like the idea of prostitution at all, but I know that it has been legalised in Australia, and as a result, there is no (or less) illegal prostitution and the controlled prostitution carries fewer risks of STDs etc because of greater hygiene checks. However, anyone visiting a prostitute must have seriously low self esteem

what a weird generalising you make there shaber

I agree with your seniment Shadow, and there is no way I would ever even consider visiting a prostitute. Not incidentally that it is even the worst possible form of sexual immorality.

But you are forgetting that some people are ALWAYS going to use prostitution INEVITABLY whether it is legal or illegal. If it were legal then there would be little or no opportunity for pimps to exploit the racquets and whores so outrageously and where it does occur, there could be stringent hygiene controls, so morally repugnant though it may be, if it were legal, the overall situation could well be improved somewhat.

As I said, the idea that legalising is good because it will destroy the underground market is not necessarily 100% correct. It is the same argument advanced with drugs, and there, there is a moral objection that society should not condone that which is wrong, even if it would make things easier if it did- and I am sympathetic to that argument.

Secondly, like I also said before, I am far from convinced that legalised prostitution will have such a great effect on the underground market, which there will still be a big demand for.

As Corran pointed out, paying for sex is not illegal. What we are talking about here is solicitation or the organisation of such things; it is part of society which is obfusc and anonymous in nature.

Possible - do you know what the effect of legalising it in Australia was? That might prove more illuminating...

I know in South Australia they RE-criminalised it again because they found it did more harm than good.

Same in Sweden. I'll go find the details.

Looks like it isn't so easy to curb STDs.

Here's the link for Australia
http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe.jsp? query=Effects+of+legalizing+prostitution+in+Austra
lia+daily+planet&page=1&offset=0& amp;result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26amp%3Breq
uestId%3D463b38d3265f4e49%26amp%3BclickedItemRank%
3D1%26amp%3BuserQuery%3DEffects%2Bof%2Blegalizing%
2Bprostitution%2Bin%2BAustralia%2Bdaily%2Bplanet%2
6amp%3BclickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fsisyphe
.org%252Farticle. php3%253Fid_article%253D697%26amp%3BinvocationType
%3D-%26amp%3BfromPage%3DNSCPResults&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fsisyphe.org%2Farticle.php3%253Fid_article%253D697

That link should work. It looks as if it failed there as well.

Your link does not seem to work, Shaber. Still, I think I provided enoigh details.

I think they should nationalise prosTITution, so that it is payed for by the goverment through taxes, so you can go down to the nearest goverment sanctioned brothel and be sure that it is safe.

Did you read what was just posted?

Duh, Omega, I know there is a difference, but the principle of the benefits of legalisation of an immoral thing is the same with both.

And did you read what I posted about it actually making the problems you speak of worse?

That's from a study, Omega, they are not my words. I was simply providing evidence to back my point that there is thois automatic assumption that legalising it will ease the problems of the illegal industry- I said it does not appear to be that simple and I provided studies that had concurred.

I don;t necessarily agree with everything in the study but I think the argument needs to go beyond "it will ease the exploitation of the illegal industry and make things safer" as simply a stated fact and have a look at the reality of what legalisation does.

I heard that in Swedem that the number of sexual assaults upon children has decreased by 75% because of their for of legalized prostitution. This leads me to belive that child molestors chose children as their victims more because they are an easier target than an adult...and not because children are their preferred sexual partners. Besides....i kind of feel bad for those individuals that can't get laid. Everyone should experience the splendor that is sex....

And NO i didn't take the time to read Ush's whole comment so if i restate what he said. Then don't comment on this please...

They should put prosTITutes on the health service (to help del with depression)

Very Droll eleven.

No, actually, one of the reasons Sweden reversed the legislation because the evidence seemed to indicate that MORE children were being harmed this way.

i was listening to a radio talk show i and heard differently...but that's radio for you.

I would not necessarily reject that. My point is not that I am certain one way or another, but that the facts in these matters are in dispute. So if people tell me that legalising it will bring benefits x and y, my response is that, well, certain studies make me not so sure on that.

and THAT is exactly why arguments with you are so interesting....you're very objective in your views. Cheers Ush...

well that is because those women are sick and obviously dont have any morals at all! and most defiantly a low self-esteem to put them selves in that position.

why in the world would any body in the right mind Just sleep with every body and any body!.....Its just wrong and Morally sick!

Are ponography actors/actresses like prostitutes as well? They get paid for it and the video is sold to the public.

Is this just as bad/worse than prostitution?

It is one further level removed, and also is safe disease wise.

Whilst it CAN negatively affect people, it does not drill that whole 'people are commodities' thing into the mind of people as it still seems fantasy to most.

Don't see how pornography can have any real effect on anything, it is not real, it is like the difference between thought and action, all the difference.

Pornography as in the actors. Aren't they selling sex/their bodies for money?

Yes, but that is still not the same as the ethic of prostitution.

Some see it as exploitation as well e.g whoever it was in the art forums.

So *if* the pretty prostitutes managed to become "porn stars" that's like a career change, still doing the same thing though i.e. sex.
But I guess not all prostitutes can become actors/actresses. I don't think people who watch pornography wouldn want to see something aesthetically challenged on screen supposedly being a turn on?!

Actually, does anyone remember Hugh Grant's case when he got caught with a prostitute, was it Divine Brown?

Seriously- pornogrpahy simply does not cause the problems prostitution does! That is plain to anyone. We are not talking out outlawing sex here, but a trade that fuels the worst in our society.

There IS an element in porn that does that of course.

Ush> Oh, I'm not disagreeing that legalisation of prostitution would create another set of problems. But from the study you posted, it seemed to me, that the problems occur when prostitution is just legalised and not CHANGED also in the process.
However - the problems caused by prositution are there TODAY. And should be dealt with one way or another.

"Just wrong" and "morally sick"? Well, that's what I've been brought up to think. My main problem with prostitution is that it reduces a woman's body to a consumer good, as if it isn't already happening everywhere with the pornofication of the public space. Im not so sure society and equality between the genders benefit from prostitution - legal or not.

Again: Prostitution exists. Can someone convince me, that these women (and some men) really LIKE their line of work? That they wouldn't really rather do something else?

(shrugs)

That is known.

I never knew it was against the law... Now I'm wondering why.. gimme a few to read the thread

well according to interviews with various ppl in that line of work (which I have read) I got the idea that some indeed enjoy it

Paying money for sex isn't against the law but institutionalising it is- as in, soliciting for it, and the organisation of it.

Aha, I get it now! Thanks Ush

Im sorry but some of these women do not have a choice sometimes. Some of them are single mothers in porverty. I sounds awful but unfortunaly when there is no food or clothes a mother will sacrifice ANYTHING for her children! Specially a mother who doesnt have any means to support her children. Legalizing prostitutions will only make their pimps more richer and the women more subjected to their rule! Legalize prostitution is not a good answer to stoppin prostitution!

Ush> WHAT is known? An unspecified one-sentence makes no sense.

Oh come on, Omega, I think it is pretty clear it refers to your point about whether any person actually likes that line of work.

Put bluntly, prostitution will always be with us... if we make it legal, or at least decriminalise it, it has to be a good thing in the long run. In Leicester, the main problem with prostitution seems to be not that it exists, but that it happens in residential areas, with innocent women being approached by kerb crawlers looking for a girl... if it were decriminalised, prostitution could be moved to other areas, for instance the police in Leicester are suggesting the Highfields girls move to a nearby industrial estate. The idea is, if they stay there, the girls won't be hassled by the police, and neither will their customers.. Around here no one has a problem with prostitution per se, just the peripheral problems. Also, I must point out that in the UK, prostitution per se is not illegal, only soliciting and procuring...

I read in my local paper today that the council are planning 4 zones in the city where prostitution will be 'Tolerated'. They are keeping the locations secret but they do say that the zones will be away from residential areas but still accessable by foot, and away from late night businesses like 24hour garages and off licences.

BTW I'm from Liverpool, England.

are you serious??????????

Im glad that TheOmega agrees with me. I most certainly opossed legalising prostitution. Women rights would be reduce to dirt! Not only that but also certain males would increase their abuse on women alreday involve in prostituion. There is already too much violence against women by males. Can you gentleman imagine what would happen if prostituion gets legalize? More abuse for the women, and certainly worst of all "CONTRACTS"!

Yes! Those PIMPS would force women to sign documents that would make it imposible for them to ever get out of the business! Certain women are force to do things like prostituion, and can you imagine if they cant get off the business because of contract agreement?

Is that the type of world that males want for women? I certainly hope not.

*puts on cowboys head and tries to go after an overtly feministic horse*
hiiiiihaaaa lassies! cowboy

According to the local papers it's true, but they always say that.

They want to legalize prostitution here in Vegas, in one of the districts (I forget which at the moment)

Yerssot> Are you aware that this is the 21st Century? Your comment to Xena_Fans post belongs in the late 19th century.
So working for equality between the genders is in your opinion an overly feministic idea? Why are you so scared of women?

...

Buh!

Ya know i just wrote a long post and after remembering what i read in the last 5 pages I decided it was pointless to try and sway the moral majority.

They don't call it the oldest trade in the world for nothing, it's thousands of years old and men and women have sold their bodies all that time. It will always be with us maybe one day there will be an ideal solution but until then, the men and women will be forced underground and some will suffer.

Actually, Omega, no, that was so darn obvious it was simply petty to query it. It was in direct reply to what you had just said about two inches above the comment.

And what sort of study do you want? There are plenty of them that say they are happy doing it, you either believe them or you do not but no study can prove that either right or wrong. For many of them it is simply a job, and 'enjoying' your job is always a rather fuzzy thing to say.

Regardless of whether it should be legalised or not, it is simply blind to pretend that everyone who does it does it because of drug addiction or from being forcibly kidnapped or what-not- some simply find it the best way to sustain themselves. Would they be happier if theyt did not have to do it? Well, very possibly, but that is a loaded question- any of us would be happy if we did not have to work work for a living.

This is the chosen occupation of some people. I don't agree with it, but it is not all people who do not want to do it, as becomes pretty obvious when it is legalised.

Here are some interview extracs with a prostitute named 'Amy'

-----

Since Amy said she had been friends with twenty or thirty prostitutes, I ask her why most of them went into prostitution.

She thought about it and said:

"I guess maybe there are four groups. There are those who are forced into it just to survive, like me; there are those who do it for the money, because they can make more money doing that than anything else ; there are those who want to meet men in hopes of getting married; and there are those who just like to party. All this can change over time, of course."

Did it change with you?

"Yes, definitely. Since I came from a very conservative religious family, I started out being full of guilt over what I was doing. That's all I could think of. I was really miserable. But, it's not like I had a choice... We were taught to be very modest in my family, so going into bed with a man I had just met was pretty difficult at first.

...But, I got used to it, and after a few weeks I found that I was enjoying the dates, the sex, and the social life. And then I felt guilty about that too. Some guys were shy, some were aggressive. Each guy was a different experience; I mean it was all sex, and most of that was the same; still it was different each time. "

What most worried you about it?

"Getting some disease."

What about the police?

"I never had any problem with them; but, then again, I wasn't street walking."

What didn't you like about it?

"Being seen as a prostitute. People don't think much of prostitutes. Guys view you different once they know what you are or were. There was always that. Now, I can't tell people about those times; I know it would really change the way they see me. "

Looking back on it, do you wish you could have avoided having to use sex for money.

"Not really. "

Are you serious?

"Yes, I am. Some girls had some bad experiences, and some felt they were trapped and had to do it, but once I came to terms with it, I had to admit I generally liked what I was doing. "

Did drugs or alcohol play a part in you life?

"I don't drink, and I've never gone near drugs."

-----

Only a single example, Omega- but not atypical, I assure you, and so as I said- it is known.

Yerssot's comments were in the context of other things XF has said over time and it is hard not to agree that XF has been overly feministic sometimes. yerssot is by NO means a man with Victorian views on women; I know him to be a great champion of equality.

my waffle! my watch stopped running
Yes, I'm aware of the new century, believe me, if there is one guy that wants equal rights for everyone on this earth it's ...Ben, closely followed by me.
I was trying in a special way to get the attention that XF is posting overtly feministic posts, where sometimes she drags stuff in as "it's all men's fault" when no one sees it that way or "men misuse women!" without thinking that it's a two-way street (that there are women that misuse men too).
Instead of refering the entire time to women being misused by prostitution, it would be great to get a dictionary and see that the word gigolo does exist (that's not a harsh or insulting comment, it's just to tell that some men face the same problems but no one thinks of that)

A friend of mine became a prostitute... nobody forced her... she just decided one day that she could make more money selling sex than in her factory job... she has no pimp, no drug habit, and several regular customers... My ex-wife also tried it for a time... The thing is there's prostitutes and there's prostitutes... you will have exploitative behaviour in any profession, but in one which is legal and run in the open, there is more chance of the workers having rights and protection than in one which is illegal and run, in the main by organised crime...

Ah, well, bgk, as I posted about above, there is much to suggest that that last bit is not in fact the case.

Wow, where abouts the UK is this?

I used to study in King's Cross, quite a few worked around there (not that I could tell)

it was ment to humerously point out that XF has done nothing but post very feministicly-tinted posts in threads such as these and in a few where it has nothing to do with the subject.
It wasn't an attack on feminism in general or something

You just don't let go off the past? I made it clear that I apologize for the things I said before. Unfortunally you dont see it that way. Anyways this is a serious thread I dont see the reason why you may want to post humoristic comments here?

Back on topic.....As TheOmega has alreday explain, crimes against women are very high all over the world. Take a look at the work place. so many sexual discriminations lawsuits are file everyday in US and Europe! Males harrasin women, and also discrimination! Is it fair for females to just quit a job, and go somewhere else? No! like I mention before some of these women are single mothers with no choice! What else can they do? Their only option is to tolerate abuse, because to quit and leave a job is not easy for a woman!

I have made the point that if prostituion is legalize, individuals like pimps would just abuse women even more! In certain third world countries women are sold as wives!!!! Isn't that awful??? So do you think prostitution will solve a problem like that??? NO! It will make it worse!

Males talk about equality! But when will they give women their fair share of equality?

please take my comments seriously! This isnt a joke! Is time for women to be treated equally NOT as sex toys! Which is what prostituion is all about! SEX and abuse for females!

Well, there is not much I can say back to that, Omega. Like I say, I can hardly provide scientific evidence that they are happy doing their job, as it were. All I can do is state the fact that many of them say they are, or were, and if you do not believe them or are not convinced then there is very little I can do about that! It is a position I cannot alter simply by providing evidence. Personally, bearing in mind everything I know about people, I do not find it at all objectionable that some people might enjoy the lifestyle and hence I believe people like the girl I quoted.

Yerssot> Good to know.

Xena_Fan> Ah! John Cleese once said that we MUST be able to joke about everythng. If we cannot do that, the "thing" has got too much power over us. And you DO run the risk of being made fun at, using "All men", as if there aren't representatives of the male species that don't feel a need to abuse and harrash women.

However - I think I know where you're coming from. That is just hard to explain, because this is still a "man's world".

Ush> I wasn't asking for a scientific study. Maybe a sociological study or a psychological one. Anything, that studies and generalises the "Group", since Amy is just one woman.
Perhaps it is the mere fact that YOU as man, believe that hookers can be happy and enjoy their job, and I as a woman, ave my sincere doubts, that is the point here. Generally men DO believe that prostitutes don't mind - generally women do not.

Well, I think bringing me being a man into it is entirely inappropriate. I am simply working on my experiences and the opinions I have seen from people of both sexes.

I will simply repeat- plenty of women (and men) say they enjoy it. Feel free to disbelieve me when I report that, or them when thy say that, but that is my submission to the argument.

I find XF's last post overtly generalising, it make it seem that every man opposes equality.

now I'm getting confused here

So, The Omega has never heard of men having to flee home due to an abusive wife... well, it happens, it just doesnt seem to get any publicity... a friend of my father's was in an abusive relationship for years... his wife would hit him, shove him down the stairs; she even burned his back with a hot iron while he was sleeping... what had he done to her? Well at one point he suggested she get a part time job in order to help pay off her catalogue bills... then he asked if she could do the washing up just once a week... he didn't say anything because he was scared that people would laugh at him, that he would be thought a wimp, that no-one would believe him, and (poor sod) because he loved her... it only came to light after she stabbed him six times in the chest because he said hello to the wrong neighbour...

Now this is one I won't support. Legalizing prostitution is not the answer. Believe it or not I agree with TheOmega and Xena fan on this one. Why? Because is true! Crimes and discrimination to women would only increase in mass numbers. Burlesques (sp?) would only become more richer, and women would only be exploited much more.

Xena fan mention something about overseas brides sold to rich nations. It could be true! Those sugar daddies could purchase them, exploit them, and make them work to support their lifestyles. The women of course don't get even half of what they earn. Now can picture a pimp with the rights to sell sex? Even worse if prostitution is legalize the pimp can just do whatever he pleases with the hooker. Sorry! I just don't support prostitution or even making it legal.

Yes! Thank you for saying that. I know I have misjudge some men in the past and I have apologize to many here in the forums. I had a friend of mine that was discriminated not too long ago in a job application. It hurt me to see that she was consider "not capable" of performing certain duties that don't require any experience whatsoever.

I can take a joke, but lately I don't know if yerssot is joking or is he bein serious to me? Anyways I hold no quarrel with him any more.

I dont know who Mr. Cleese is, but if you recomend some of his writtings I will look them up.

There are many women that have been my inspiration in life. For example, Susan B. Anthony is one of them. Have you heard of her? When I gather some of her writtings I will post them. She had a strong voice on prostituion. Even today her writtings on the subject are largely admire worldwide.

To WindDancer: You agree with me? (please dont consider this flamming "Im not trying to offend you with this) Then why do you support pornography? Dont you consider it an explotation of women?

Because, Omega, you are simply reducing it to a basic level of being man vs. woman. My views of prostitution- which, may I remind you, are broadly in agreement of yours- have absoluely nothing to do with my gender. And your 99.9999999% thing is simple exaggeration- the proportion is actually about a quarter of prostitutes being male (in the States, anyway, and others follow pretty much the same pattern). The only reason I believe it is because I believe THEM when they say they do. That does not make it right, that does not make legalising it a good idea, but if simply faced with the question "Do any of them enjoy what they do?" then my answer can only be that, from everything I have seen, heard, and read, 'Yes, some of them do."

You think they are mistaken- that is your right. I think you are totally wrong to think that.

And it is about reducing PEOPLE to consumer goods. Not just WOMEN. The proportions are irrelevant- this is a principle.

And the reason it was legal for those Danish soldiers, Omega, is beause it is very unusual for paying someone in private for sex to be illegal. I will remind you that paying for sex is already legal just about everywhere. In fact, making it illegal is contrary to a UN resolution saying that it should be legal (not to mention that the US National Organisation for Women voted for the same thing in 1973).

Yerssot> First you make a sarcastic comment to Xena Fan. I fly off the handle, you explain yourself, I apologize... And then your NEXT comment to Xena Fan is the epitome of diplomacy. It cracked me up completely!!

Big_Gay_Kirk> Men flee their homes due to abusive wives? Can you give me just one example from the media?
Then when you've done that, consider the rate of fleeing men to fleeing women - where is the biggest problem?

WindDancer> Have you heard of trafficking? Young women from Eastern Europe and Asia get lured to Europe under the pretence of getting a job. Instead they end up - in the thousands - in brothels in the West. The middle-men even go so far as to take their passports to prevent the women from leaving again. And place them in the situation "If you don't do as I say, I'll tell he police you're here illegally."

Xena_Fan> John Cleese was a member of a brilliant British comedy-group Monthy Python. He's done a lot of acting (such as in "A fish called wanda". Look him up on the I-net.

Ush> No, I am not. I am merely pointing out, that those who're found to be positively inclined towards prostituion, or - as you - think prostitutes enjoy their line of work are men. And you're a man. I am aware that you're not in favour of legalising prostituion. I do - however - find it interesting that you chose to believe Amy, while I do not. And I find it by NO means irrelevant that you, the believer, is a man, while I, who do not, am a woman.
I am NOT saying all men want to legalise prostituion - please notice that.
The 99,9999999 (or around there) % was - I admit - simply a number I wrote. But then - how many of your 25 % male prostitutes are giggolos, and how many are gay prostitutes. The point of that matter being "some mens idea that they have a RIGHT to sex."

??? Are you telling me the UN says prostitution should be legal????

(Goes to a hiltop and starts hitchhiking for the next spaceship to stop by planet Earth).

i think it should be legalized! they should pay taxes cuz it's still a job and it isn't our fault that women sell themselves for money their must be other jobs for them to do!

Something very similar to that happens here in the US. Women from Mexico and Central America are brought to the US with the promise of "factory jobs". Once they arrive the people that traffic these women threaten them with things like "we will report you to the immigration department" or even "we can kill you, and they won't identify you because you are an illegal alien"

That's one of the reason why the US enforces immigration laws. There are countless violantions agains't women in American/Mexican border most of those violations come from people that traffic women, and some even come from the border patrol!

"??? Are you telling me the UN says prostitution should be legal????"

Yup, resolution passed in 1949, ratified by all major countries SAVE the US, whose failure to adopt it caused the demand by the National Organisation for Women as I noted.

the UN has nothing to do with law, they make softlaw that's about it

Omega... another problem with female violence towards men is that the media tend not to be interested... doesn't sell enough papers... although occasionally some does leak into the locals... check out copies of the Coalville Times and the Leicester Mercury... but you'll have to look in the little, tiny articles... plus, I never said it was aworse problem than the one women have with abusive men, I just said it existed and was poorly publicised. There are abusive relationships of all kinds, whether man to woman, woman to man, man to man and woman to woman... Women are not perfect, and can be just as violent and perverted as men... about 25% of all paedophiles are women...

Errt, well, I think that final figure is rather dodgy. After all, it is well known that the vast amount of child sexual abuse takes place inside the family and goes unreported, and that such abuse is nearly always male-led. In the final analysis, there is little doubt that Men are by far the largest perpetrators of such crimes; even my point above about the idea being to reduce exploitation of people rather than women happily admits that the exploitation of Men is simply by other Men.

Women CAN be like that, for sure, but by far the biggest problem is from men,

Out here in Germany, it is completely legal. There are well established brothel's that all have their own nicknames as given by the local's, and there are what we call 'Lay-by Lil's' all over the place - just camper van's etc in lay-by's and in clearings run for the cheapest prices.

However, these places cause more trouble then they are worth - bearing in mind what I do for a job, we often get called out to these establishment's, and the girl's are complaining that they have been assaulted by customer's.
We then offer them their right to make a formal statement of complaint, which they are all too happy to do until it comes to the point at which they are required to divulge their personal details (which is a matter of procedure, otherwise we are unable to log a complaint, the details are demanded by the public prosecutor).
At this point, they realise that divulging their name will result in their imminent discharge from the country that they have illegally immigrated into, and back to the life that, in the majority of cases, they were trying to escape from.
And that leaves us powerless to do anything. We can't arrest the person who assalted them without a statement of complaint, and the person who committed the offence in the first place gets away with it time and time again.

So, while brothel's do present a lot of pleasure for some men, I personally feel that it should be illegal in all countries so as to prevent the problem that some places currently have.

Of course, on the flip side of the coin, you have the argument of: "If we didn't have the brothels at all, what chance would there be for people who are leading miserable lives in other countries and just want to get out and make a fresh start somewhere else. Without prostitution, a lot of these people would have nothing to turn to"

It's a difficult situation.

WindDancer> Well, just because we disagree on... is that drugs or the death-penalty - doesn't mean we MUST disagree on everything. Srange notion.

Ush> (Faints) That MUST be a joke... Please, someone tell me that s a joke...

Big_Gay_Kirk> Okay, so you cant give me examples from the media of female violence towards men, because the media isn't interested. You MUST have your "me abuse men, too" sources from somewhere. How am I supposed to get a copy of Coalville Times?? You're making an assertion, you must supply the proof. Such as the proof of 25 % of phaedophiles being women (actual phaedophiles, not traffickers, or website oweners etc - but the ones who commit the crime). I do not believe you.
I never claimed you said it was a worse problem than men abusing women. I'm just looking for the relevance in connection with legalising prostitution or not. I've never claimed that women are perfect. What kind of nonsense comment is that?? "Oh, women are not perfect, and they sometimes abuse men, too..." SO??

Der_Soldat> Your "flip-side of the coin" doesnt hold. Quite a few of the women in question are not told beforehand, that they're to become prostitues. You think they'd have gone ahead and left their homes, if they'd bee told the truth? It's like saying: "Oh, if we didn't have prostituted Thai-children at all, who western phaedophiles visit when in Thailand, these children wouldn't have any way of making a living."

Sorry, Omega! No joke...

Okay, "Scotty, Beam me up."

TheOmega> Not a strange notion, is just different views of opinions.

Big Gay Kirk> The media sells what they consider "hot stories" so that they can sell their news papers. If they can turn a story into a big case they can get away with anything. But a woman abusing a man? It could be possible, but by abuse do you mean mental verbal abuse? Or physical abuse? Either way abuse on woman is more common because certain men think that they deserve respect just because their males. Sad indeed. For some guys is easy to walk away from his wife and child (which is very disturbing), but a woman cannot just abandon his child. Maybe she can walk away from her man, but not from her child.

Prostitution sould be legal, because nobody is forcing them to do it, and making it illegal would make criminals out of hard working ho's who just want to make a decent living.

No it shouldnt be! Look at all those posts saying NO to legalizing prostitution. They all agree that women already in the business would only be more abuse, more mistreated, and more likely to never get out off prostitution. Criminals would not be out of work if prostitution gets legalize! Instead they will be more richer. You said that no one is forcing them? look at that post made by TheOmega! Don't you think that's terrible what they are doing in Eastern Europe?

Well should it? if your over 18 then technically you chould be at free will. so why make something illegal when you should have freedom of acts and speech, but if it was legal then the prostitutes would prob. get taxed.

No it spreads aids

it spreads aids because people are forced into it, but in sense if it was legalised then people and prostitutes would take more precautions. take amsterdam, a prostitute city, but not an 'aids' capital. if it was legalised it could be controlled if it was controlled it would spread less disease and it would most definately reduce the number of rapes.

Yes. It creates a much saver environment for the women.

sarcasm towards me?

think about it peoples sexual appetites would deteriate.

No it shouldnt because it would lead to major issues

Me?

yeah just though you was bin bit sarcastic? but sorry if you wernt

what major issues, if your guna post that then at least elaborate instead of trying to look clever.

^^ It's ROB. Don't bother.

Issues such as, more people getting STDs, it could lead to rape situations, ect... It wouldnt be a smart thing to do to make prostitution legal

wev just covered that it wud cut down rapes and would most likely control stds.

so you think there would be more control if it was illegal rather than legal? that just doesnt make any sense.

I could lead to rape and stds so no

How do you know that it would cut down rapes? And how the hell is legalising prostitution going to cut down the chances of people getting STDs?

No, not at all. Like I said, legalising prostitution creates a saver environment for the working girls. Because then everyone involved is forced to keep records of their actions. It's controlled and organised.

To most people hookers are probably something that's strange and far away, but not for me. My mother was in fact a prostitute. Since I live in the centre of Amsterdam, I know and am friends with lots of the girls. I don't want to see them get hurt.

The women that work illegally, what we call the heroin hookers, that's just such a sad situation. It's inhuman.

Your a hooker

im sorry to angie to use you as an example but you cant argue with fact people she is from a city where there are many prostitutes, when somethins legal then guidlines are set but if not thats when things spiral out of control and backdoor. napalm if your guna comment write more than a sentence as writing a few words wont make your point. and repeating what rob said doesnt make you look too good either.

napalm daredevil one of your favourite films???????!!!!!!!!!!1 please get a grip

The actual reason prostitution is illegal is because of human rights and the interplay between certain categories of law.

All Im saying is that legalising prostitution will make the count of rape go up as well as STDs. Plus it can lead to more deaths to so it would be better if it wasnt legalised

how would legalising it make rape go up???? most rapes are done by sexual repressed males so giving them the chance to get sex elswhere legally would make more sense than illegally would it not?

I definately think prostitution should be legalized.

get in we have a winnner, at least someone sees the sense in it

There is already a thread on this issue, so merging.

thanks for stealing my topic

****ing do gooder