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I'm torn.I used to think the old punk was the best,but I also love these new bands.The real ones I mean,not any of that good charlotte crap.

I hate punk because it all sounds alike to me. At least, old punk there was some variety. Now, I hate it all with the exceptions of a few bands like Green Day and Pennywise.

old punk had the clash. they win.

I like the Clash and Myth,please take your punk-hating views off of my thread.Thank you.

New Punk has Leftover Crack and they're the one of the best bands/best artists i've ever heard. I'm not a big fan of any type of old school rock and punk

...but...but...The Clash! They rocked! MC5! Iggy and the Stooges!

I came in here to see if there was any referances to Green Day, not to voice my opinion of Punk music but that is just what I did. I didn't bash punk or you for liking it, I just stated my opinion. And I even said which I preferred so I was even within the boundaries of the topic so I think I should be allowed to stay.

case cloooosed.

Todays punk is commercialized crap

Not all of it.

But yeah, old school wins easy. Can't argue with The Ramones.

yeah they were great too

Ramones would have been better if they wouldn't have made the same album a dozen times

left over crack is bad ass but i did not think they were considerd punk
old school punk wins for me
G.G Allan
Misfits

Yeah, I'm gonna have to go with old-school punk on this one.

I consider Green Day to be punk.They kick ass.

Misfits, Clash, Ramones...

yea old school wins, plus they didnt regurgitate the same old crappy anti-Bush propoganda 100times

Me too, thats why I came here. Also, I like the Ramones much more than current punk.

old punk is has alot more creibility but i don't think that new punk is necessarily all commercial and no message.

Definitely old school.

^Bad Reliion

umm BLINK 182 is cool!!!
and green day

although i like the ramones, i like new school better, because its what i am growing up with and its what i like better

The only new punk and wort mentioning,in my humble opinion that is, is Rancid even if they are Joe Strummer wannabees.
Old School had Clash, Misfits, UK Subs, Ramones, Iggy Pop and the less hard core punk bands like Undertones, Killing Joke, Jam

NOFX, Rancid, Frenzal Rhomb, Dropkick Murphys, Guttermouth, Bad Religion and 98 Mute are all good new age punk bands.

oh yeah and The Offspring's first three albums were great aswell.

I'm more "old school" Joe Stummer & The Clash win it over for me.

Personally Im into new age punk more, bands like NOFX, Bad Religion, Rancid, Frenzal Rhomb, the Bouncing Souls, Offspring, Green Day (only semi-punk), Operation Ivy, the Vandals, etc. A lot of my favorite bands are new age punk. not to say I dont totally dig old school punk.

Not sure where all this "semi-punk" stuff came from.

The way I see it, punk was a very specific thing. One of the very few phenomena that did actually extend beyond music and into life. What I have come to understand of punk, what it truly meant to people like John Lydon etc, is dead now. Has been for a very long time and will never come back.

Anti-authority music isn't punk, it's just anti-authority music. Punk, real punk, will never come back because it was in the end, enhanced by the time era it was born in. A time that has long gone. The politics, the cultural climate back then was what spawned punk. The Sex Pistols were as rebellious as they were because they were actually unhappy and genuinely pissed off with life, the way they were being told to live it and the powers that be. They wanted to change it so they made as much noise as they could in the direction of those they felt were oppressing them in the hopes their voices would be heard. Much like the true grunge pioneers, Layne Staley etc. These people, much like the original punk pioneers, were genuinely fed up, sad, and depressed with life to the point that it (metaphorically) killed them.

"Punk" bands now who go around being "rebels" are not punk bands, nor are they rebels. If you're rebelling against everything, you're not rebelling, technically. You're just conforming to something else. Rebelling, being depressed and such means nothing if you've got no reason to be relating to either.

Punk was born by a situation that no longer exists and hasn't existed since. So nothing since punk, has been punk.

"Punk was something to survive through. Me being called The King of the Punks wasn't something I wanted, because punk wasn't a good term back then. I didn't want that title, but it was an era in my life that was extremely important and back then, we were nobodies. So to have Johnny Come-Lately stroll along nowadays and try to take what we made possible from nothing, I'll fight to the death for it." - John Lydon.

-AC

meh, i think that nirvana, garbage, and even fricken Beck have more in common with what punk truly was in the 70's and 80's than all of the self procaimed punk crap that's out nowadays. especially the shit that spells it "punk rawk" like yellow card, ashlee simpson, blink 182, avril lavigne, good charlotte and the rest of that worthless shit. and locally you've got bands that all sound either like blink 182, or like a cross between the supertones, minor threat, and the circle jerks, hence defining punk as a "particular sound". Then the shows are ruined by either the preppy blind 182 mohawked football players, punk zealot Crass fans who quote ben weasil like he's god, read maximumrocknroll, and think Jello Biafra deserved having his legs broken, and the usual neonazi skinheads who's purpose in breathing I question and would fit in more at a Skrewdriver or RAHOWA show.
That's why modern "punk" sucks ian stewart's rotting corpse.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not sure where all this "semi-punk" stuff came from.


-AC

I wrote that because I am not entirely sure if Green Day could really be considered a true punk band

Of course not. They're a band inspired by punk, maybe. They're not a punk band in my opinion.

-AC

Nice post AC.

I don't really know much about punk honestly. Only own one punk cd.. which is by the Dead Kennedys.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Not sure where all this "semi-punk" stuff came from.

The way I see it, punk was a very specific thing. One of the very few phenomena that did actually extend beyond music and into life. What I have come to understand of punk, what it truly meant to people like John Lydon etc, is dead now. Has been for a very long time and will never come back.

Anti-authority music isn't punk, it's just anti-authority music. Punk, real punk, will never come back because it was in the end, enhanced by the time era it was born in. A time that has long gone. The politics, the cultural climate back then was what spawned punk. The Sex Pistols were as rebellious as they were because they were actually unhappy and genuinely pissed off with life, the way they were being told to live it and the powers that be. They wanted to change it so they made as much noise as they could in the direction of those they felt were oppressing them in the hopes their voices would be heard. Much like the true grunge pioneers, Layne Staley etc. These people, much like the original punk pioneers, were genuinely fed up, sad, and depressed with life to the point that it (metaphorically) killed them.

"Punk" bands now who go around being "rebels" are not punk bands, nor are they rebels. If you're rebelling against everything, you're not rebelling, technically. You're just conforming to something else. Rebelling, being depressed and such means nothing if you've got no reason to be relating to either.

Punk was born by a situation that no longer exists and hasn't existed since. So nothing since punk, has been punk.

"Punk was something to survive through. Me being called The King of the Punks wasn't something I wanted, because punk wasn't a good term back then. I didn't want that title, but it was an era in my life that was extremely important and back then, we were nobodies. So to have Johnny Come-Lately stroll along nowadays and try to take what we made possible from nothing, I'll fight to the death for it." - John Lydon.

-AC

Punk is more then an attitude IMO, at least in the last 20 years or so. It may have originated as an attitude, but there is a musical side to punk as well, and that has been quite alive for the past 30 or so years. Punk might not be an appropriate term anymore, but really, I could care less about labels.

Punk evolved from an attitude to a genre.

It seems like punk is the most subjective genre out there. Everyone has a different idea of what punk is. I haven't seen any genre's defintion be debated as much as I have punk.

well in 77 you could go see the ramones, the germs, blondie, and the go-go's on the same bill and call it a punk show.

kinda makes me wish i was born 20 years earlier

Originally posted by Afro Cheese
Nice post AC.

I don't really know much about punk honestly. Only own one punk cd.. which is by the Dead Kennedys.

Dead Kennedys are one of my favorite bands, I solute you. You might wanna check out The Clash , The Ramones and maybe The Sex Pistols.

Originally posted by Bierbommetje
Punk is more then an attitude IMO, at least in the last 20 years or so. It may have originated as an attitude, but there is a musical side to punk as well, and that has been quite alive for the past 30 or so years. Punk might not be an appropriate term anymore, but really, I could care less about labels.

Punk evolved from an attitude to a genre.

Read my post again please. Then we can discuss further when you realise you just said what I did, but less.

-AC

Old School, Misfits.

OLD PUNK HANDS DOWN!
The Clash
The Ramones
The Misfits
The list goes on...
Old School wins by a long shot!

let's not forget The Adolescents, TSOL, DI, Flipper, ADZ, Black Flag, The Joykiller, Circle Jerks, Minor Threat, MDC, The Cruci****s, Butthole Surfers,The Avengers, The Normals, The Mutants, Three Day Stubble, The Weirdos, and Negative Trend.

The Clash, Ramones and Sex Pistols beat pretty much anything IMO.

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Read my post again please. Then we can discuss further when you realise you just said what I did, but less.

-AC

My comment was more specificaly about this part of your post:

Originally posted by Alpha Centauri
Punk was born by a situation that no longer exists and hasn't existed since. So nothing since punk, has been punk.

Punk was born out of the situation back then. That's is the origin of punk, that is the origin of the genre punk, which has existed since then and will probably excist for quite some time to come.

Same as blues having originated out of laborsongs, but blues still excists as a musical genre even though it's not being made as laboursongs anymore.

Originally posted by Darth Jello
meh, i think that nirvana, garbage, and even fricken Beck have more in common with what punk truly was in the 70's and 80's than all of the self procaimed punk crap that's out nowadays.
You mean because they at least had spirit?

AC, Guys. Your debate is one that can never be truely won. The Genre, the Lifestyle all of it. It always dies and is then reborn as something new. It's like an endless cycle of reincarnation that personally, I believe will never die. And thereby is impossible to truely grasp hold of.


Anyway, I am a fan of new and old punk. I grew up on the Clash, The Misfits, The Ramones and the Sex Pistols. At the same time, I now listen to newer artists such as Anti-Flag, The Unseen, Lower Class Brats and such.

Two last things to mention. Rancid is essentially Operation Ivy. So they are not exactly "New". And I wonder why no one has mentioned Stiff Little Fingers, Cock Sparrer, The Adicts or so many other great, old bands.

punk failed when people define it is a particular sound and genreand when MTV started labling bland rock music and fashion as punk. I think overzealous fans are also to blame.

Punk today is just a fashion statement. The music is a dime a dozen, as is the look. Guys with mohawks and tattoo sleeves were shocking and new in the late 70's, now the style, like the music, is monotonous and usually contradictory, and most of all, commercialized which is the cardinal sin for punk. C'mon, you're supposed to be anti-establishment, while there are bands like Green Day assuming everyone cares about Billy Joe Armstrong's self righteous politcal agenda spewing to impressionable kids who will listen to their idols and assume the same stance, regardless if they know what political affiliation they are.

Please. If nothing else, old school punk rock stood for rebellion and got their message across. These days, it's just another tool to sell albums by cashing in on the war.

BTW, The Ramones are by no means a punk band. They got lumped into the genre because they, sometimes, played music fast. Their music and the punk movement have NOTHING in common. As for The Misfits, same thing. Their songs were about horror films and the occasional song based on Danzig's Monroe obsession.

Those two bands are the innovators of pop punk. Like it or not. The Clash and the Sex Pistols are in the same boat to a more severe degree. Pop-punk bands with one memorable song and a legacy that only die hard fans would delve into.

I like New punk because thats what i listen to more i mean the only old school music i even listen to is like Social Distortion and that pretty much it other stuff i listen to are like in the last 15 years or so

Punk peaked in 1983, southern california.

Legitimate question. You being only 16(?), when exactly where you consciously capable of grasping the actual message behind original punk rock music? I mean, 3 out of the 4 bands you named aren't even punk. The Clash were political in the early 70's, then they fizzled out.

Pick one person of the street and ask them to name one Clash song other than "Rock the Casbah", which is as pop as you can get. That's right. You won't find one.

Personally, I like and prefer the approach of mainstream pop-punk, save Green Day. They offer the same style music, minus all the whining about government, while they sit there with their thumbs up their asses bullshit. It's like emo and angst rock. Just music for kids to relate to and to sell albums, not banking on actual musical craftsmanship.

Interesting point of view, I agree for the most part. Though I think it's unfair to place musical craftsmanship as a high priority and then slam Green Day because they've become politics pushers. American Idiot, popularity aside, is their most musically accomplished album. Regardless of whether anyone likes the music or not, they play better on it than they ever have anywhere else. As VVD said before, Green Day are just more popular now, not more commercial. So if that is what you believe, you should at least recognise their ability at least on an instrumental level.

The part I agree with is what you said about music made to sell albums. People would rather buy an album by My Chemical Romance than one by Rush. Or one by Simple Plan instead of one by King Crimson. I don't view this as a bad thing because I believe they've made their choice as to what side they're on. I don't want Good Charlotte fans listening to King Crimson or Tool.

However, despite the musicality and such being better with the two latter bands than the former, people are lazy. That's what it will come down to. Not many 16 year old girls who just like music for face value and/or aren't into it fanatically (nothing wrong with this), are going to sit there and have the attention span, respect or interest in listening to Red or Aenima. They'd rather have the latest album by The All-American Rejects or whatever.

It's just the way it is.

Rush released their debut in 1976, their last release was in 2004. They're not relying on looks, exposure or trend to sell their albums. They don't need to push iPods or reality shows. They play music, that's what they do. For that one band there have probably been well over 300 one hit wonders or disposable pop acts since they began. People in general don't necessarily want Good Charlotte around, but they are around. They're getting used while the public want them, when they don't? They'll be gone. Rush are still going, The Cure are, Killing Joke are, Prince is. People who love these great bands old or new, want them around because they make great music as opposed to just liking them until the next best thing comes along.

I guess the point I'm making in a roundabout way is that most people just want something to dance to, to nod their head to. Nothing wrong with that, but a lot of the time this is shit music.

-AC

Woah AC way to make a gal dizzy

Do what? Oh, I appear to have accidentally checked the "Rotate your post?" box.

I better go uncheck that .

-AC

musical craftsmanship depends on the band and what they're going for, The Adolescents, DI, and TSOL made really complicated and great songs with lots of harmonizing. they were awesome. Flipper couldn't play they're instruments and couldn't sing. They were awesome for different reasons.

Punk is not a fashion and im sick of people saying that, just because your punk does not mean you have a mohawk. Punk is a music and in the area where i live it is still an attitude. We have our reasons for hating people in general.
1.) People are stereotypical pricks.
2.) They try to accept punk by copying it with things that they consider punk because of their stereotypes.
3.)Have you noticed how messed up the police really are, they are allowed to kill you if you look threatening and are carrying something that they consider a weapon.

BTW old school punk kills new school with the Sex Pistols alone.

Originally posted by Cinemaddiction
Pick one person of the street and ask them to name one Clash song other than "Rock the Casbah", which is as pop as you can get. That's right. You won't find one.

Oh come on now, that'S unfair towards The Clash, they have some great songs despite "Rock the Casbah" ...I mean The Clash are pretty much known aren't they...people would say "Yeah, the clash...heard of them" ....
And "I fought the law" is although maybe not know by title known by the sound.
As for not being all that punk, you are probably right but they had some songs with a political meaning, "White Riot", "Guns of Brixton" "Lodon Calling" for example.

Originally posted by Black Flag
BTW old school punk kills new school with the Sex Pistols alone.

True. I am in seriously dislike of most this new generation of 'punk'.

Old School...

THE SKIDS

THE BUZZCOCKS

THE CLASH

Originally posted by Black Flag
Punk is not a fashion and im sick of people saying that, just because your punk does not mean you have a mohawk. Punk is a music and in the area where i live it is still an attitude. We have our reasons for hating people in general.
1.) People are stereotypical pricks.
2.) They try to accept punk by copying it with things that they consider punk because of their stereotypes.
3.)Have you noticed how messed up the police really are, they are allowed to kill you if you look threatening and are carrying something that they consider a weapon.

BTW old school punk kills new school with the Sex Pistols alone.

What on earth does police brutality have to do with the debate of old school/new school punk?

There was much more to '77 punk than The Clash, Ramones and Sex Pistols. Don't get me wrong, Ramones are simply the greatest collection of 4 'musicians' to have ever walked the earth, but you gotta remember bands like The Normals, Eater, Drones, NY *******, Satans Rats, The Nips etc etc etc.

The Briefs & The Shocks have gotta be the only bands to have adheired to the original sound and kept it going

Diversity and courage is what separates new and old-

MbSLkYISQAo

l5YLaQGumCw

Operation Ivy
Misfits
Dead Kennedy's
Ramones
Sex Pistols
Bad Religion
*original DKM (with Mike)
Flogging Molly
Rancid = Priceless

Modern crap like GC, GCH, Paramore = $5 hooker is worth more

Originally posted by Cory Chaos
Punk today is just a fashion statement. The music is a dime a dozen, as is the look. Guys with mohawks and tattoo sleeves were shocking and new in the late 70's, now the style, like the music, is monotonous and usually contradictory, and most of all, commercialized which is the cardinal sin for punk. C'mon, you're supposed to be anti-establishment, while there are bands like Green Day assuming everyone cares about Billy Joe Armstrong's self righteous politcal agenda spewing to impressionable kids who will listen to their idols and assume the same stance, regardless if they know what political affiliation they are.

Please. If nothing else, old school punk rock stood for rebellion and got their message across. These days, it's just another tool to sell albums by cashing in on the war.

BTW, The Ramones are by no means a punk band. They got lumped into the genre because they, sometimes, played music fast. Their music and the punk movement have NOTHING in common. As for The Misfits, same thing. Their songs were about horror films and the occasional song based on Danzig's Monroe obsession.


Those two bands are the innovators of pop punk. Like it or not. The Clash and the Sex Pistols are in the same boat to a more severe degree. Pop-punk bands with one memorable song and a legacy that only die hard fans would delve into.


You have no ****ing idea what you're talking about kid. Punk is alive and well. You just don't support your local bands lol Street Dogs are out touring the shit of the world. Left alone. Blackfoot 56. They preach what they believe and rancid is still in the mother ****ing game with lars frederikesen. Go grow up doucher, punk music is a statement for the blue coller working man, The little guy who never gets out from under. ****, even the Dropkick murphys are still tearing it up. You lose kiddo go back to school and listen to some music

Ive been listening to punk since 83 i still go to shows as much as possible and the punk scene is very different now the new so called punk bands are carbon copies of each other. Its really sad but i must say there is a few new bands out there that i think i very reminiscent of the old days. I recently was in vegas and had come across this bar called double down a dingy dive bar in vegas. i saw it had some bands playing later so i stayed and later it was bands didnt start till 1130 pm and there was 4 bands i was like shit this going to be going for awhile so i decided id stay and watch the first two bands and continue on with my vacation......first band was ok the second band rocked my world they get up on stage and im lookin at the members and i said ook this going to be an attempt on some punk rock cuz they looked like old school punx no egos and drinking like fish so they start to play and i felt like i was at show from 20 years ago these guys are ****in amazing chic drummer who sings was a plus the guitar player was great and the bass player as well these guys seem to trade off on vocals for lead vocals which was pretty cool....anyways the show kicked ass the songs were great i spent like 40 bucks and bought 3 cds and shirt had to give the cds to some pals to check out so point being is dont lose faith oldschoolers cause there are bands like The Gashers to uplift your woes punk is not dead ! its just underground im hopin the come northern cal soon they have a .com site i dont use facebook so not sure if they are on that